RoTS Jedi Anakin vs Obi-Wan Kenobi

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RetroMetro

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Poll RoTS Jedi Anakin vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (57 votes)

Anakin 60%
Kenobi 40%

I was thinking about it and Kenobi was able to handle his own against a rage amped, dark side amped Skywalker.

How would he fair against a Base light side Anakin?

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Manofthunderbolts65

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I think it is pretty much implied that he would have lost.

First off, Anakin beat Dooku on his own while Obi got trashed pretty quickly. Given that he's a jedi, his feelings will not interfere in the middle of battle. Not to mention the environment won't help Kenobi this time, although it won't be easy since Obi-Wan is a master of Soresu which is Anakin's Djem So hard counter, and he also knows how Anakin fights.

But imho the latter wins after a good fight

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RetroMetro

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@manofthunderbolts65:

Good analysis. I knew the Dooku fight was going to be taken into consideration. I always summed this up to Dooku letting him win in addition to Anakin tapping into the dark side.

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Manofthunderbolts65

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@manofthunderbolts65:

Good analysis. I knew the Dooku fight was going to be taken into consideration. I always summed this up to Dooku letting him win in addition to Anakin tapping into the dark side.

I don't see why Dooku would let him win tbh

I assume this is based off the novels

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AlexTheBoss

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Anakin takes a majority due to being more powerful, but Kenobi can take some rounds as his skill is comparable and he is more cautious.

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Red12789

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Anakin should win, unless he gets over cocky

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RetroMetro

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SufferedToker

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Anakin takes a majority due to being more powerful, but Kenobi can take some rounds as his skill is comparable and he is more cautious.

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Richard96

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Anakin wins.

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AlexTheBoss

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@retrometro: Yeah, they are definitely in the same tier, Anakin is just higher in that tier.

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AlphaQ

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#10  Edited By AlphaQ

Yeah, Anakin is just better but Obi-Wan can take a minority due to strategy.

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AlphaQ

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Yeah, Anakin is just better but Obi-Wan can take a minority due to strategy.

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Manofthunderbolts65

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@retrometro: iirc Lucas once said that Anakin was a tier higher than Obi (Tier 8 then Tier 9).

Thing is Obi1 can hold his own against stronger opponents due to his skill and he's Anakin's worst possible matchup. Not to mention he managed to match Annie's force push in ROTS.

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Void_Reborn

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#13  Edited By Void_Reborn

If Obi-Wan doesn't falter under Grievous's assault and can equal dark side Anakin in the force I don't see how he's losing to Jedi Anakin. He can hold his own against a stronger version of Ani in the force and can defend against attacks far stronger and aggressive than Anakin's. On top of that, he knows all of Anakin's moves same as the other way around but that works in Kenobi's favor more since he is the defensive one here.

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FirstOrder

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Dooku purposely threw the fight with Anakin under Palpatine's orders so throw that fight out the window. I say the fight with Obi and Anakin goes pretty much the same way, Obi-Wan is the worst possible matchup for Anakin he just plays defensive until you make one mistake which Anakin well make with his aggressive style. 65/35 Obi-Wan

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Void_Reborn

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Dooku purposely threw the fight with Anakin under Palpatine's orders so throw that fight out the window. I say the fight with Obi and Anakin goes pretty much the same way, Obi-Wan is the worst possible matchup for Anakin he just plays defensive until you make one mistake which Anakin well make with his aggressive style. 65/35 Obi-Wan

Anakin is literally the perfect victim for a Soresu master.

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Red12789

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Manofthunderbolts65

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Dooku purposely threw the fight with Anakin under Palpatine's orders so throw that fight out the window. I say the fight with Obi and Anakin goes pretty much the same way, Obi-Wan is the worst possible matchup for Anakin he just plays defensive until you make one mistake which Anakin well make with his aggressive style. 65/35 Obi-Wan

I've heard from many debaters here that he threw the fight on purpose but I still want a source to confirm this.

It wouldn't make sense for him to just get captured (which is risky) with both arms chopped off in the middle of war.

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AnakinVader99

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If Obi-Wan doesn't falter under Grievous's assault and can equal dark side Anakin in the force I don't see how he's losing to Jedi Anakin. He can hold his own against a stronger version of Ani in the force and can defend against attacks far stronger and aggressive than Anakin's. On top of that, he knows all of Anakin's moves same as the other way around but that works in Kenobi's favor more since he is the defensive one here.

1. Grievous is not greater than Jedi Anakin and dark side Anakin has done nothing to suggest he got stronger

2.Grievous is not stronger or more aggressive

3. How does that help Anakin

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AnakinVader99

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@Ineedgold said:

Dooku purposely threw the fight with Anakin under Palpatine's orders so throw that fight out the window. I say the fight with Obi and Anakin goes pretty much the same way, Obi-Wan is the worst possible matchup for Anakin he just plays defensive until you make one mistake which Anakin well make with his aggressive style. 65/35 Obi-Wan

Anakin is literally the perfect victim for a Soresu master.

Not happening

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AnakinVader99

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Dooku purposely threw the fight with Anakin under Palpatine's orders so throw that fight out the window. I say the fight with Obi and Anakin goes pretty much the same way, Obi-Wan is the worst possible matchup for Anakin he just plays defensive until you make one mistake which Anakin well make with his aggressive style. 65/35 Obi-Wan

1. That is not true

2. How so? Asajj and Dooku do the same thing not to mention Anakin himself is physically Obi-wan's superior

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Kilius

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Kenobi. He’s Anakin’s Ken Norton, his Juan Marquez, the one guy who will always have his number.

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Erkanbeater

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Anakin

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Erkanbeater

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Dooku purposely threw the fight with Anakin under Palpatine's orders so throw that fight out the window. I say the fight with Obi and Anakin goes pretty much the same way, Obi-Wan is the worst possible matchup for Anakin he just plays defensive until you make one mistake which Anakin well make with his aggressive style. 65/35 Obi-Wan

Since when did Dooku throw the fight? The novelisations are non canon now so you can throw those sources out of the window. And even in the novel, Dooku stopped holding back at one point and once Anakin wanted him dead, he couldn't do a thing about it. Your argument for Dooku holding back against Anakin is flawed because A) The novel isn't canon and B) Even in the novel, Dooku stopped holding back at a point, and Anakin still beats him.

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Void_Reborn

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@anakinvader99:

2.Grievous is not stronger or more aggressive

Lol he most CERTAINLY is. By a large margin, in fact. Anakin is strong but he's not Grievous strong. Not as aggressive. No way.

3. How does that help Anakin

How does what help Anakin?

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MattyBoi

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Kenobi should win here. He stalemated a dark side amped Anakin.

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AnakinVader99

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@void_reborn: 2. Anakin's strength was so great he overpowered Dooku

in a manner whichh Grievous failed to. How is Grievous stronger? Minus less much stronger?

3. I meant Obi-wan in defence?

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AnakinVader99

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@mattyboi: Mustafar Anakin is not amped also Obi-wan was declared to not be stalemating

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MattyBoi

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#28  Edited By MattyBoi
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G_Race

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Has it really come to this? Kenobi has augmented so highly in recent months that he can defeat a non conflicted, non high ground, no PIS Skywalker senior!?!

StaHhHp the madness. Rots Anakin wins this & handily. Kenobi can contend do to experience and intimate understanding of Anakin's fighting abilities, but contend is the key word here. When the fight is on the line & all the motions gone through it's Anakin Skywalker who brings home the win.

Stronger force connection

Superior duelist

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Richard96

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An amped and prepared Kenobi was still forced to run and to exploit the environment by an hindered and unbalanced Anakin. Anakin is one tier above Kenobi, that’s it.

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Void_Reborn

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#31  Edited By Void_Reborn

@anakinvader99:

Anakin's strength was so great he overpowered Dooku

This isn't really all that amazing.

in a manner whichh Grievous failed to.

Grievous did not fail. He doesn't even try to overpower Dooku in their sparring sessions. Note, sparring. Neither Dooku or Grievous are going all out and Dooku is his mentor. The one who taught Grievous everything he knows about lightsaber combat. If there's anyone in the entire SW universe who has the best chance against Grievous it's Dooku. Not a fair comparison.

How is Grievous stronger? Minus less much stronger?

Grievous is one of the most physically dominant and imposing characters in the entire SW universe. He rips apart elevator doors just to chase people, crushes and penetrates Beskar, tossing around rooms full of Mandalorians with just his arms and claws. His punches dent starfighter hulls, he smashes skulls out of irritation, crushes the skulls of Jedi masters, destroys computer consoles in a fit of rage and slams his lightsaber down so hard that magnaguard staffs made out of phrik alloy are sliced clean in half in a single strike. His kicks alone send Jedi flying across the battlefield and he crushes bones of clone troopers just by stepping on them. Anakin is strong but he is not Grievous. Not even a contest.

3. I meant Obi-wan in defence?

It helps him because he is not the active attacker obviously. Soresu is all about putting up a defense that is so stalwart that the fight will eventually result in the one on the offensive faltering or making an error in their approach, resulting in the defender capitalising on their mistakes. Unskilled users of Soresu are merely delaying the inevitable whereas Obi-Wan, a Soresu master if not THE Soresu master is described as nearly invincible in lightsaber combat.

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AnakinVader99

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@void_reborn: 1. Dooku has enough strength to one shot Obi-wan with one heel kick and has matched the strength of Mace of all people

2. Dooku mentions he is rarely pushed by Grievous while Anakin is outright overpowered him and pushing him to his limits that is something Grievous has never done. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Dooku has fought Grievous head on yet Grievous couldn't overpower him

3. So is Anakin infact that is his biggest reason why he is so dangerous as a Jedi and is one of the strongest in the verse with people like Malgus or Babe failing to match him his strength outmached Obi-wan,Dooku,Mace and Yoda all of which have replicated Grievous' feats. Was declared by Dooku to be like a meteor strike, was declared to be the strongest Jedi out there, nearly broke Obi-wan's bones which are stronger than durasteel, beskar in canon has been damaged by less and has been pierced by clone blaster fire, tore apart spider droids with his bare hands, one shotted super battle droids,overpowered magna guards, hits harder than pillars and in a younger age broke stone

3. You say that yet plenty of people who are offence are incredible strategist including Vader and Grievous

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Void_Reborn

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#33  Edited By Void_Reborn

@anakinvader99:

1. Dooku has enough strength to one shot Obi-wan with one heel kick and has matched the strength of Mace of all people

By your logic, Grievous > Dooku > Anakin > as far as physicals. If you're going to use Obi-Wan as the main form of comparison here, please realise that Dooku's kick was only so effective because he took advantage of the environment they were on. Obi-Wan almost fell of the ledge and it could've been game over. Anakin failed to overpower Obi-Wan in ROTS multiple times during the duel on neutral ground while throughout TCW, a single kick from Grievous is able to hit Obi-Wan so hard that the resulting impact of him landing against the LAAT gunship resulted in the entire gunship budging for a moment. Obi-Wan even holds his abdomen in pain and leaves the fight. Dooku's kick did no such damage to him.

2. Dooku mentions he is rarely pushed by Grievous

Nope. Dooku said that he is hard pressed in some of their sparring sessions.

while Anakin is outright overpowered him and pushing him to his limits that is something Grievous has never done. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Dooku has fought Grievous head on yet Grievous couldn't overpower him

He doesn't even try to overpower Dooku in their sparring sessions. Note, sparring. Neither Dooku or Grievous are going all out and Dooku is his mentor. The one who taught Grievous everything he knows about lightsaber combat. If there's anyone in the entire SW universe who has the best chance against Grievous it's Dooku. Not a fair comparison.

Don't know why this is being brought up again. Grievous fights Dooku for the purpose of honing his skills, training and learning from his mentor. Anakin fights Dooku to defeat/kill him in vengeance. Vast difference in intent. Besides, I already went over why Dooku has an inherent advantage against Grievous, being his mentor and all.

which have replicated Grievous' feats

Force augmentation included. Durability is impossible so simply cite any other physical stat. I will agree that upper tier Jedi probably have him equalled in the way of reflexes, though. Windu can scale directly off him based on their stalemate in Legends but Grievous was hindered in 3 ways.

beskar in canon has been damaged by less and has been pierced by clone blaster fire, tore apart spider droids with his bare hands, one shotted super battle droids,overpowered magna guards, hits harder than pillars and in a younger age broke stone

None of this is beyond Grievous's abilities. Anakin never overpowered that Mag in the Clone Wars, he simply held against its strength with his metal arm which confused the droid for a moment. It would be overpowering if he crushed its fist/wrist or pushed it back against the punch. Grievous tosses Magnaguards around and tears them apart during sparring sessions. He throws them with enough force to break transparisteel windows and durasteel control consoles.

3. You say that yet plenty of people who are offence are incredible strategist including Vader and Grievous

Yes, their tactical intelligence is very remarkable but that doesn't directly translate to a direct lightsaber duel. A lot of planning becomes overlooked when attention is taken up by a fight you're currently in. Soresu is very well optimised to deal with a duelist like Anakin Skywalker when more faultless opponents have fallen to its swordplay and ideas as a lightsaber form. Obi-Wan's knowledge of Anakin's moves and fighting style give him the advantage, like I've said before.

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RedHood_JayTodd

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Anakin

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AnakinVader99

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@anakinvader99:

1. Dooku has enough strength to one shot Obi-wan with one heel kick and has matched the strength of Mace of all people

By your logic, Grievous > Dooku > Anakin > as far as physicals. If you're going to use Obi-Wan as the main form of comparison here, please realise that Dooku's kick was only so effective because he took advantage of the environment they were on. Obi-Wan almost fell of the ledge and it could've been game over. Anakin failed to overpower Obi-Wan in ROTS multiple times during the duel on neutral ground while throughout TCW, a single kick from Grievous is able to hit Obi-Wan so hard that the resulting impact of him landing against the LAAT gunship resulted in the entire gunship budging for a moment. Obi-Wan even holds his abdomen in pain and leaves the fight. Dooku's kick did no such damage to him.

1. Dooku kicked Obi-wan in the neck in ROTS originally and that kick ko Obi-wan. That is what I am talking about. What are you talking about? Anakin had Obi-wan by the neck in their fight and at no point did Obi-wan ever had the advantage infact Anakin with one arm matched Obi-wan's strength with two arms. Also this was a weaker Anakin who hadn't eaten or slept in days. Grievous in TCW is one of the most inconsistent characters and is constantly showed or strong also if we want to go there then Ahsoka is god tier. Also that Obi-wan in TCW is not in his prime either

2. Dooku mentions he is rarely pushed by Grievous

Nope. Dooku said that he is hard pressed in some of their sparring sessions.

Grievous had been a delight to train, as well. No need to coax him to release his anger and rage, as Dooku had been forced to do during the training of his so-called Dark Jedi disciples. The Geonosians had arranged for Grievous to be nothing but anger and rage. And as to the general's combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg.

Source: Labyrinth of Evil

Moments not really in the entire sparring session

while Anakin is outright overpowered him and pushing him to his limits that is something Grievous has never done. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Dooku has fought Grievous head on yet Grievous couldn't overpower him

He doesn't even try to overpower Dooku in their sparring sessions. Note, sparring. Neither Dooku or Grievous are going all out and Dooku is his mentor. The one who taught Grievous everything he knows about lightsaber combat. If there's anyone in the entire SW universe who has the best chance against Grievous it's Dooku. Not a fair comparison.

Don't know why this is being brought up again. Grievous fights Dooku for the purpose of honing his skills, training and learning from his mentor. Anakin fights Dooku to defeat/kill him in vengeance. Vast difference in intent. Besides, I already went over why Dooku has an inherent advantage against Grievous, being his mentor and all.

Doesn't matter Darth Plaguies loses to Palpatine and Luke can easily beat Obi-wan your point?

which have replicated Grievous' feats

Force augmentation included. Durability is impossible so simply cite any other physical stat. I will agree that upper tier Jedi probably have him equalled in the way of reflexes, though. Windu can scale directly off him based on their stalemate in Legends but Grievous was hindered in 3 ways.

Not exactly impossible when Obi-wan has similar durability and Grievous has fallen to less things compared to Jedi. Strength is included Luke easily tears him apart and Obi-wan overpowered his arm. Yes and Mace is weaker than Anakin and Grievous was only hindered in one way

beskar in canon has been damaged by less and has been pierced by clone blaster fire, tore apart spider droids with his bare hands, one shotted super battle droids,overpowered magna guards, hits harder than pillars and in a younger age broke stone

None of this is beyond Grievous's abilities. Anakin never overpowered that Mag in the Clone Wars, he simply held against its strength with his metal arm which confused the droid for a moment. It would be overpowering if he crushed its fist/wrist or pushed it back against the punch. Grievous tosses Magnaguards around and tears them apart during sparring sessions. He throws them with enough force to break transparisteel windows and durasteel control consoles.

I don't remember the last time Grievous could hit harder than pillars? Again Obi-wan's bones are stronger than durasteel. He did that what are you talking about

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11122/111226069/4835364-8649528269-eaRrx.gif

The Magna guard was sent flying by Anakin on the right

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11122/111226069/4835509-0808651827-9PPxn.gif

He also overpowers it by sending his arm back

3. You say that yet plenty of people who are offence are incredible strategist including Vader and Grievous

Yes, their tactical intelligence is very remarkable but that doesn't directly translate to a direct lightsaber duel. A lot of planning becomes overlooked when attention is taken up by a fight you're currently in. Soresu is very well optimised to deal with a duelist like Anakin Skywalker when more faultless opponents have fallen to its swordplay and ideas as a lightsaber form. Obi-Wan's knowledge of Anakin's moves and fighting style give him the advantage, like I've said before.

Yes it does Grievous adapts to his enemies and counters them and so does Vader. Which deosn't matter as many jedi masters lost to their students not to mention Anakin is again not an idiot.

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AnakinVader99

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@mattyboi said:

@anakinvader99: Proof Anakin lost the darkside amp on Mustafar?

Anakin was a better fighter than Obi-wan before going dark side. Mustafar Anakin has done nothing impressive compared to Invisible hand Anakin. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

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Void_Reborn

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Dooku kicked Obi-wan in the neck in ROTS originally and that kick ko Obi-wan. That is what I am talking about. What are you talking about?

Is this from the novelisation? I don't recall Dooku kicking Obi-Wan in the movie. Just a force push and then a force choke/grip into a force throw which KOed him. I thought you meant Dooku's kick on Obi-Wan in TCW during the last fight between Dooku, Kenobi and Skywalker before ROTS. Doesn't really change anything about what I said though. A kick to the neck is obviously a near-fatal blow on a weak point. Note, if this is supposed to be impressive, Dooku also kicked Anakin in the same spot in ROTS, causing him to fly into the wall as Dooku used the opportunity to force choke Obi-Wan and toss him into a nearby balcony. Grievous kicked Obi-Wan in the midriff and essentially put him out of the fight instantly with that one blow. The impact of which also proves his strength is by far the most formidable.

Anakin had Obi-wan by the neck in their fight and at no point did Obi-wan ever had the advantage infact Anakin with one arm matched Obi-wan's strength with two arms.

Anakin has a metal arm, lol. Aside from this, they pretty much matched evenly in a contest of strength.

No Caption Provided

Also this was a weaker Anakin who hadn't eaten or slept in days.

Source? I know only that he may have been conflicted in that fight which seems mostly supported by headcanon. Either way, this deficiency is easily sustained through via the force.

Grievous in TCW is one of the most inconsistent characters and is constantly showed or strong

Yes, I give the show a lot of flak for the inconsistency in his portrayal. There are some consistencies though and it's that Grievous is vastly portrayed as one of the more physically powerful combatants even here and his performance against Obi-Wan is consistent about 90% of the time. Ahsoka is not God tier but she has a lot of moments that can be considered PIS.

Also that Obi-wan in TCW is not in his prime either

Neither is Grievous, your point?

Moments not really in the entire sparring session

I acknowledge that but moments is not the same as rarely. "Moments" is vague and generally unquantifiable.

Doesn't matter Darth Plaguies loses to Palpatine

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/tpm-darth-sidious-wollfmyth209-vs-darth-plagueis-j-1638510/?page=1

For the most part it's agreed that Plagueis can take the W against TPM Palpatine. Makes sense anyway as per why Palpatine chose to scheme and kill him so dishonorably rather than fighting outright. As for ROTS/ROTJ Palpatine, of course he can beat Plagueis. Force users grow more and more attuned/powerful in the force the longer they live and train meanwhile Grievous can only go as far as his cybernetics allow.

Luke can easily beat Obi-wan your point?

Don't recall Luke ever fighting against Obi-Wan but clearly he does surpass him somewhere down the road. Obi-Wan barely trains Luke anyway, by comparison to Grievous and Dooku.

ot exactly impossible when Obi-wan has similar durability

You're telling me Obi-Wan can resist a burstfire from a starfighter's laser cannon/survive being at the centre of an explosion that devastated an underground city and fundamentally shook the entire planet? Obi-Wan is very visibly in pain after being kicked by Grievous. That sort of force being applied to Grievous wouldn't do such damage or cause him difficulty. Guy shrugs off force pushes and being thrown into objects many times. It is logic. It is simply not possible for Obi-Wan to have similar durability to Grievous. You already saw what happened in ROTS when Kenobi tried kicking him. Grievous budged with no reaction and laughed, Obi-Wan yelled in pain.

Obi-wan overpowered his arm

When did this happen?

Grievous has fallen to less things compared to Jedi

So most Jedi get their arms cut off often, tank the fire and explosive damage of a fuel canister exploding in their face, deliberately allow themselves to be shot by blaster fire because it simply isn't capable of damaging them, get cut in half, are force crushed at the chest and get shot by a rocket launcher at point blank?

Strength is included Luke easily tears him apart

Definitely not. Overpowering Vader is a result of him being informed by Palpatine not to kill Luke and he is conflicted. Conflicted not just in his mind but to the point where he isn't fighting to the best of his ability. GM Luke probably has some ridiculous force augmentation though so he may be physically superior.

Yes and Mace is weaker than Anakin and Grievous was only hindered in one way

3 ways. Grievous in Legends is described as needing an open space to duel at the best of his ability because of his size. The roof of the mag cart was narrow, he only had time to open up 2 out of 4 of his lightsabers and he was stuck in place due to magnetising his feat to avoid being blown away due to the train's velocity. 3 ways.

I don't remember the last time Grievous could hit harder than pillars?

Hyperbolic. Just like the 'meteor' description by Count Dooku. Their strength feats are already enough to prove who is the stronger. Anakin is a hammer. Grievous is a stronger hammer.

gain Obi-wan's bones are stronger than durasteel

Source?

The Magna guard was sent flying by Anakin on the right

He was using the force. Why does this matter?

He also overpowers it by sending his arm back

The Mag pulled its arm back to punch Anakin, he wasn't sent back. Anakin only caused the droid's fist to tremble for a moment.

Yes it does Grievous adapts to his enemies and counters them and so does Vader.

Yes so clearly Obi-Wan being able to mount an unparalleled defense against someone like Grievous, capable of striking 21 times per second with titanic strength each time and analysing the opponent's dueling style on the fly would clearly show that he can do the same to Anakin; a much less ferocious opponent that is not as strong and more prone to error due to his unstable nature, even without the dark side.

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@anakinvader99:

Anakin was a better fighter than Obi-wan before going dark side. Mustafar Anakin has done nothing impressive compared to Invisible hand Anakin. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

I know, my point is, if Obi wan could stalemate a dark side amped Anakin, he should be able to beat a non amped Anakin, or at the very least stalemate him.

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Anakin wins 9/10. He was winning his duel against Obi Wan in ROTS, and only lost because of Hubris+Rage, something that wont cloud his judgement in this scenario.

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Anakin

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DirtyLuna

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Anakin takes it after an epic fight. Their skills are very close.

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#42  Edited By Beta_Stage

Ok *cracks knuckles* let's do this. I actually think this is an even 5/10 split. Here's why: people point to the Dooku fight to show the difference in their power which makes perfect sense, except for one small detail - Anakin used the Dark Side to beat him. Since this is base light side Ani, this showing is how we should compare them -

Loading Video...

As you can see, before Anakin went into Kill, Kill Rage Mode, he got punked by Dooku the same way Obi-Wan did.

Now, let's move on to the Mustafar fight: By this point it is accepted by everyone that Anakin is better tham Obi, Myself included. He's a better DUELIST. This is what happened when a Dark Side amped Anakin tried to use the Force on Obi-wan -

Loading Video...

So, even at Anakin's strongest point (using the Dark Side) Obi-Wan is able to stalemate him in the Force. This means that while Anakin > Obi-Wan as a duelist, Obi-Wan > Base Anakin in the Force.

These 2 points are why I believe the two are dead even when Anakin is at his base level.

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Hey_Thatsmildlyadequate

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Kenobi. ABC logic doesn't always work in star wars due to dueling counters. Anakin's style more or less hard countered Dooku's. It doesn't counter Obi-Wans

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Kenobi wins. Anakin already lost against him.

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Anakin was extremely hindered and unbalanced on mustafar. More than enough to completely cancel out any dark side/rage amp, and to even hinder him below his base levels. Jedi Anakin with a clear head wins pretty much unquestioningly, but Obi-Wan can definitely make it a long and drawn out fight unless Anakin abuses the Force.

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@mattyboi said:

@anakinvader99:

Anakin was a better fighter than Obi-wan before going dark side. Mustafar Anakin has done nothing impressive compared to Invisible hand Anakin. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

I know, my point is, if Obi wan could stalemate a dark side amped Anakin, he should be able to beat a non amped Anakin, or at the very least stalemate him.

That dark side amp Anakin if anything is weaker than normal Anakin we know this because he was unbalanced and whole lot dumber

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#48  Edited By RedHeathen

anakin didn't have an amp. when he first received an "amp" from the dark side, he began faltering. it wan't until sidious told anakin what to do with the power anakin received from opening to the dark side. he said to harness it and use it. to focus it. this is when anakin had his moment of clarity and realized how easy it was, and this is when he beat the arrogance out of dooku. dooku realized everything about himself and his life was all a complete "joke".

once anakin had control, he no longer had an "amp". if you think otherwise, then please explain amp and why you think it is an important point to make when discussing duels.

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AnakinVader99

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#49  Edited By AnakinVader99
@void_reborn said:

Dooku kicked Obi-wan in the neck in ROTS originally and that kick ko Obi-wan. That is what I am talking about. What are you talking about?

Is this from the novelisation? I don't recall Dooku kicking Obi-Wan in the movie. Just a force push and then a force choke/grip into a force throw which KOed him. I thought you meant Dooku's kick on Obi-Wan in TCW during the last fight between Dooku, Kenobi and Skywalker before ROTS. Doesn't really change anything about what I said though. A kick to the neck is obviously a near-fatal blow on a weak point. Note, if this is supposed to be impressive, Dooku also kicked Anakin in the same spot in ROTS, causing him to fly into the wall as Dooku used the opportunity to force choke Obi-Wan and toss him into a nearby balcony. Grievous kicked Obi-Wan in the midriff and essentially put him out of the fight instantly with that one blow. The impact of which also proves his strength is by far the most formidable.

1. Yes and Obi-wan has tanked hits from multiple strong fighters that could break steal and could kill humans like toothpicks yet Dooku one shot him. Anakin was not really paying attention not to mention Dooku was overpowered by Anakin. Not it does not that Obi-wan is nowhere near as strong as ROTS Obi-wan since he grew substantially so it does not apply. Also inconsistent since Obi-wan Grievous' attacks before

Also if we want to go there

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11122/111226069/4793520-7547133132-43091.gif

He floors Dooku while nowhere near his prime as this Anakin would get his ass whooped by ROTS Anakin

Anakin had Obi-wan by the neck in their fight and at no point did Obi-wan ever had the advantage infact Anakin with one arm matched Obi-wan's strength with two arms.

Anakin has a metal arm, lol. Aside from this, they pretty much matched evenly in a contest of strength.

2. And? Tell that to Luke who beat the crap out of Vader who had four cybernetics these are the same people who could crush steel if anything his human should be stronger force amplification>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>metal proven time and time

Also this Vader is weaker than any version of

No Caption Provided

Also this was a weaker Anakin who hadn't eaten or slept in days.

Source? I know only that he may have been conflicted in that fight which seems mostly supported by headcanon. Either way, this deficiency is easily sustained through via the force.

3. Anakin had still been between worlds then, and vulnerable.

Source: Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

Grievous in TCW is one of the most inconsistent characters and is constantly showed or strong

Yes, I give the show a lot of flak for the inconsistency in his portrayal. There are some consistencies though and it's that Grievous is vastly portrayed as one of the more physically powerful combatants even here and his performance against Obi-Wan is consistent about 90% of the time. Ahsoka is not God tier but she has a lot of moments that can be considered PIS.

4. No it is not Obi-wan has taken his beatings physically and if we want to go there Asajj ko him with a single kick

Also that Obi-wan in TCW is not in his prime either

Neither is Grievous, your point?

5. Grievous can improve in skill not physical strength there is nothing to say otherwise

Moments not really in the entire sparring session

I acknowledge that but moments is not the same as rarely. "Moments" is vague and generally unquantifiable.

6. Yes but he also said in some not most so it's a minority not to mention Dooku has taken him head to head

Doesn't matter Darth Plaguies loses to Palpatine

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/tpm-darth-sidious-wollfmyth209-vs-darth-plagueis-j-1638510/?page=1

For the most part it's agreed that Plagueis can take the W against TPM Palpatine. Makes sense anyway as per why Palpatine chose to scheme and kill him so dishonorably rather than fighting outright. As for ROTS/ROTJ Palpatine, of course he can beat Plagueis. Force users grow more and more attuned/powerful in the force the longer they live and train meanwhile Grievous can only go as far as his cybernetics allow.

7. Doesn't matter he can still grow in skill

Luke can easily beat Obi-wan your point?

Don't recall Luke ever fighting against Obi-Wan but clearly he does surpass him somewhere down the road. Obi-Wan barely trains Luke anyway, by comparison to Grievous and Dooku.

8. Yes but he still watches him train

ot exactly impossible when Obi-wan has similar durability

You're telling me Obi-Wan can resist a burstfire from a starfighter's laser cannon/survive being at the centre of an explosion that devastated an underground city and fundamentally shook the entire planet? Obi-Wan is very visibly in pain after being kicked by Grievous. That sort of force being applied to Grievous wouldn't do such damage or cause him difficulty. Guy shrugs off force pushes and being thrown into objects many times. It is logic. It is simply not possible for Obi-Wan to have similar durability to Grievous. You already saw what happened in ROTS when Kenobi tried kicking him. Grievous budged with no reaction and laughed, Obi-Wan yelled in pain.

9. That one time is PIS written all over it as Grievous has lost to gungans and has been injured. Obi-wan shrugged of force pushes from Dooku,ventress and plenty of people much more powerful than the pushes Grievous has tanked

Obi-wan overpowered his arm

When did this happen?

10. But Obi-Wan's arm had the Force to give it strength, and the general's arm only had the innate crystalline intermolecular structure of duranium alloy.

Grievous' forearm bent like a cheap spoon.

Revenge of the Sith novel

Grievous has fallen to less things compared to Jedi

So most Jedi get their arms cut off often, tank the fire and explosive damage of a fuel canister exploding in their face, deliberately allow themselves to be shot by blaster fire because it simply isn't capable of damaging them, get cut in half, are force crushed at the chest and get shot by a rocket launcher at point blank?

11. No but they have tanked force pushes from beings that could tear apart freighter, tanked explosions that were tearing apart ships, shot by blaster bolts in the back, stabbed in the back, unaffected by freighter fire and tank rocket launchers

Strength is included Luke easily tears him apart

Definitely not. Overpowering Vader is a result of him being informed by Palpatine not to kill Luke and he is conflicted. Conflicted not just in his mind but to the point where he isn't fighting to the best of his ability. GM Luke probably has some ridiculous force augmentation though so he may be physically superior.

12. Vader is stronger than Grievous and is declared equal to his son multiple time in strength

Yes and Mace is weaker than Anakin and Grievous was only hindered in one way

3 ways. Grievous in Legends is described as needing an open space to duel at the best of his ability because of his size. The roof of the mag cart was narrow, he only had time to open up 2 out of 4 of his lightsabers and he was stuck in place due to magnetising his feat to avoid being blown away due to the train's velocity. 3 ways.

Mace couldn't use vaapad properly, couldn't use shatterpoint either and had to use the Force to ground himself not to mention Grievous in TCW and Legends relies on two sabers most of the time

I don't remember the last time Grievous could hit harder than pillars?

Hyperbolic. Just like the 'meteor' description by Count Dooku. Their strength feats are already enough to prove who is the stronger. Anakin is a hammer. Grievous is a stronger hammer.

Not hyperbolic genius

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11121/111215016/4353868-anakin%20ability%20force%20enhancement%20strength%20%281%29.gif

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11125/111251167/6545288-get%20off%20me.gif

Ventress could shove aside pillars easily like a minor inconvenience yet is having a hard time taking Anakin's strength

This Anakin is weaker than TCW Anakin who is weaker than ROTS Anakin so your point on Grievous being stronger?

gain Obi-wan's bones are stronger than durasteel

Source?

Apparently, Obi-Wan's head was somewhat harder and the cruiser's interior walls.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

The Magna guard was sent flying by Anakin on the right

He was using the force. Why does this matter?

The first one was sent flying from his strength not the force

He also overpowers it by sending his arm back

The Mag pulled its arm back to punch Anakin, he wasn't sent back. Anakin only caused the droid's fist to tremble for a moment.

No it was not it was shoved

Yes it does Grievous adapts to his enemies and counters them and so does Vader.

Yes so clearly Obi-Wan being able to mount an unparalleled defense against someone like Grievous, capable of striking 21 times per second with titanic strength each time and analysing the opponent's dueling style on the fly would clearly show that he can do the same to Anakin; a much less ferocious opponent that is not as strong and more prone to error due to his unstable nature, even without the dark side.

Anakin hits faster, hits stronger, is more aggressive, knows Obi-wan and considering Anakin has only been injured three times in the entire Clone Wars in duels 1 of them when he was not in his prime and the other two when he was emotionally vulnerable. So the fact that Anakin has never been injured without circumstances screwing him over I doubt he is prone to error it's just a bullshit headcanon that people spew out because of the Mustafar incident that happened once. Tell me why does Anakin only have two scars before ROTS? Why not a million if he is so prone to error? I know maybe because Anakin has not made many mistakes in any fight besides two times. Meanwhile Grievous has been injured and wounded in duels multiple times and only won through luck or deception

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AnakinVader99

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Ok *cracks knuckles* let's do this. I actually think this is an even 5/10 split. Here's why: people point to the Dooku fight to show the difference in their power which makes perfect sense, except for one small detail - Anakin used the Dark Side to beat him. Since this is base light side Ani, this showing is how we should compare them -

Loading Video...

As you can see, before Anakin went into Kill, Kill Rage Mode, he got punked by Dooku the same way Obi-Wan did.

That was one time not to mention Anakin kicked him off the railing in that fight you can see he lost his footing in that gif nice try though

Now, let's move on to the Mustafar fight: By this point it is accepted by everyone that Anakin is better tham Obi, Myself included. He's a better DUELIST. This is what happened when a Dark Side amped Anakin tried to use the Force on Obi-wan -

Loading Video...

So, even at Anakin's strongest point (using the Dark Side) Obi-Wan is able to stalemate him in the Force. This means that while Anakin > Obi-Wan as a duelist, Obi-Wan > Base Anakin in the Force.

HAHAHAHA Nice joke this Anakin is nowhere near his strongest point infact he is weaker than most versions Anakin post knighting

These 2 points are why I believe the two are dead even when Anakin is at his base level.

Nope Anakin is better period