ROTS Darth Sidious vs Reborn Darth Krayt

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Richard96

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Random encounter, morals off, win by death. Legends + canon feats allowed for Sidious.

- Round 1: Only sabers

- Round 2: Only Force

- Round 3: All out

Who wins?

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IdrisianGraecus

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#3  Edited By IdrisianGraecus

@richard96: Half of those people were banned, kek.

Sidious takes this. Krayt is max Revan Reborn or like, Dooku level, not gonna win.

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Richard96

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MyGod000

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If Krayt is only Revan level then Sidious one shots.

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IdrisianGraecus

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@mygod000: I hold Revan rather high though, you forget. My Revan vs yours is different. Krayt scales astronomically above Kenobi though.

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IdrisianGraecus

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@richard96: Ah that’s fair. A shame some of the best guys were banned though.

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MyGod000

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It doesn't matter how high you hold Revan at, the fact is Sidious is the strongest Sith and is way more powerful than Vitiate, who is way more powerful than Revan.

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Richard96

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This thread may help to know better Krayt

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/i_like_swords/blog/the-power-of-darth-krayt/133736/

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Necromancer76

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#10 Necromancer76  Online

Sidious

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DarthAdi

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Either way.

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MyGod000

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I'll say it again...Still Sidious wins.

Krayt spent his whole Life searching for the power to defeat Vader and Sidious. when he finally finished his training Vader and Sidious was already dead without him even knowing it or knowing what happened.

Again, nothing really puts Krayt above Sidious here.

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i_like_swords

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Krayt wins due to having better feats, great fight though.

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MyGod000

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Krayt wins due to having better feats, great fight though.

what feats are you referring to? Him helping Luke with Abeloth doesn't prove he was Luke equal, If we take that as that then that would mean He is stronger than even DE Sidious. the only thing we can go off of is that Krayt Power multiplied because he was no longer injured and didn't have to waste his force powers keeping himself alive anymore.

which is fine and all, but that doesn't really put him above ROTS Sidious.

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i_like_swords

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@mygod000: Stomping Cade Skywalker more easily than Sidious stomped Maul, despite Cade being more powerful than Maul. Also being one of two pivotal players in killing Abeloth before he grew substantially in power, knowledge and skill. Also, given that there are several stomp level gaps between FotJ Luke or Abeloth and RotS Sidious, Krayt merely contending with either automatically elevates him over Sidious. This is corroborated by the fact as early as 17BBY, A'Sharad Hett was a serious contender for Obi-Wan Kenobi, who was virtually equal to Vader on Mustafar, Vader being stated as on Sidious' tier at that time. Nearly 200 years of extreme power growth after being within a couple notches of Sidious' tier lends itself well to Krayt's overtly superior feats later in the timeline.

All of this has been sourced by myself in numerous threads already, so it's not a matter of debate. I'm willing to hear a counter argument for Sidious, but I won't entertain any fact bending this late in the game when the information has been freely available for years.

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MyGod000

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#16  Edited By MyGod000

@i_like_swords said:

@mygod000: Stomping Cade Skywalker more easily than Sidious stomped Maul, despite Cade being more powerful than Maul. Also being one of two pivotal players in killing Abeloth before he grew substantially in power, knowledge and skill. Also, given that there are several stomp level gaps between FotJ Luke or Abeloth and RotS Sidious, Krayt merely contending with either automatically elevates him over Sidious. This is corroborated by the fact as early as 17BBY, A'Sharad Hett was a serious contender for Obi-Wan Kenobi, who was virtually equal to Vader on Mustafar, Vader being stated as on Sidious' tier at that time. Nearly 200 years of extreme power growth after being within a couple notches of Sidious' tier lends itself well to Krayt's overtly superior feats later in the timeline.

All of this has been sourced by myself in numerous threads already, so it's not a matter of debate. I'm willing to hear a counter argument for Sidious, but I won't entertain any fact bending this late in the game when the information has been freely available for years.

No, Obi-wan in ROTS wasn't even close to an Equal to Vader on Mustafar.

it was stated Anakin only lost that fight because he was Blinded By fury and rage and wasn't trying to defend himself.

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If Vader than was sidious tier then you have to yield to the fact that Vader was more powerful than he was back then on Mustafar stated by Obi-wan.

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Stated his powers has Matured, for his powers to mature Vader would Need to be>Mustafar Vader=>Sidious ROTS.

that just one source there are many more.

are you implied Krayt is above ROTJ Sidious and DE Sidious as well? Just trying to see how far exactly do you see Krayt in power.

The only thing we have on note said about his powers growth was that it Multiplied from him being fully healed making him much more powerful than he was as Jedi master and Sith Apprentice.

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i_like_swords

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@mygod000:

So for Obi-Wan = Vader, we have several sources confirming this, and plenty from the RotS novel to suggest it. Now, while I personally think Vader is the more powerful of the two, the fact is clear that Obi-Wan had to be close to him in power in order to have a marathon duel with him. It helps that they knew each others fighting styles well, but it's a fact that Obi-Wan, after letting go of his attachments to Anakin, was not being overpowered by Vader's strength (unlike Dooku), was not tiring out, was not noticeably slower, and was even "deflecting" his Force blasts - none of that would be possible unless they were close in power. I mean, they had a TK stalemate which blew them both away, it doesn't get clearer than that.

Kenobi = Vader

http://imgur.com/gallery/w4JfJzU

RotS novel quotes

https://imgur.com/gallery/2ff3Jmo

Here are sources for Presuit Vader > Suit Vader

http://imgur.com/gallery/ViNx6ZD

I will grant you this: I think the debate over the years between suited vs pre suit Vader has been overly black and white, where both sides simply look for sources that support their argument without considering the nuances at play. It's really not as simple as one being better than the other in every way: pre suit and suited Vader both have edges and weaknesses the other lacks. That explains why both have quotes of superiority over one another that are seemingly contradictory - because even the word "power" can mean different things if you change the context.

For me, Presuit Vader is:

-A more powerful lightsaber duelist, in large part because he is not stuck inside a deliberately constricting and cumbersome suit

-Due to being more organic, can much more freely draw on living Force energy, and has a higher potential pool of raw power

Suited Vader is:

-A greater master of the dark side, with more control of his power and much more knowledge of the Force

-Wiser and more experienced, less prone to making impulsive mistakes

Depending on how you spin it, you can suggest either are "more powerful". Also, while suited Vader has "more powerful than ever" quotes, many of them were published before RotS was even released, so the newer quotes for Pre Suit Vader have to be factored in and reconciled. Maybe he has more power but as a result of his suit he cannot wield it properly? There is a similar problem with Anakin's dialogue to Dooku about his powers "doubling" since they last fought: this was said before TCW was made, meaning that because of TCW, Anakin thinks his powers have doubled in the few months since he last fought Dooku. It's about having common sense instead of looking at sourcebook quotes in a black and white way - the truth lies in the primary sources, the stories.

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i_like_swords

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are you implied Krayt is above ROTJ Sidious and DE Sidious as well? Just trying to see how far exactly do you see Krayt in power.

The only thing we have on note said about his powers growth was that it Multiplied from him being fully healed making him much more powerful than he was as Jedi master and Sith Apprentice.

I believe Krayt is more powerful than RotS Sidious for the reasons given. I think he is weaker than DE Sidious. Unsure about anything in between but that is a good debate.

I mean, his power growth is extensively documented and reflected by his feats. I'm not sure what you mean by "the only thing"? Are you saying Krayt did not grow in power over 150+ years at all? Because there are plenty of sources that disagree.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/star-wars-universe-1943200/the-power-of-darth-krayt-1939829/

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MyGod000

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are you implied Krayt is above ROTJ Sidious and DE Sidious as well? Just trying to see how far exactly do you see Krayt in power.

The only thing we have on note said about his powers growth was that it Multiplied from him being fully healed making him much more powerful than he was as Jedi master and Sith Apprentice.

I believe Krayt is more powerful than RotS Sidious for the reasons given. I think he is weaker than DE Sidious. Unsure about anything in between but that is a good debate.

I mean, his power growth is extensively documented and reflected by his feats. I'm not sure what you mean by "the only thing"? Are you saying Krayt did not grow in power over 150+ years at all? Because there are plenty of sources that disagree.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/star-wars-universe-1943200/the-power-of-darth-krayt-1939829/

First, I want to say this I consider you among the top tier Debater in Stars wars. Also, in elder scrolls my favorite Verse if you notice from my photo.

I only just looked at your respect thread for Krayt the other day for like 30mins to get the basics of his power. I try to be very objective in my debates with star wars, Sidious being my 3rd Favorite Star wars character of all time...i just needed to see just how far up do you view Krayt.

feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this. Reborn Krayt is him after his duel with Abeloth right?

What I meant by that comment was that it was the only concrete indicated of his power getting massively more powerful than before. I not saying he didn't gain a boost in power as a sith Apprentice or anything, I am saying when we transitioned from a Jedi Master to being a Sith Apprentice...can we really say his powers multiplied several folds or more like he did when after the seed was removed from his body and he no longer had to waste power on the force to sustain his life like he was doing after he was torture by the Vong?

for me right now...the duel can go either way.

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i_like_swords

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@mygod000:

Yeah, Reborn Krayt is about 100 years after the Abeloth fight, and is peak Krayt. He's fully healed etc.

He gained a "great deal" of power from his apprenticeship, then an even bigger boost when he was tortured by the Vong. That was when "Darth Krayt" was born. After that he fights Abeloth, then 100 years of struggling with the coral seeds later he is killed, only to come back to life fully healed and stronger than ever.

If we look at other examples in the lore, like DE Luke, Jacen Solo, Dooku etc, or even Anakin, embracing the dark side leads to a big power increase. So even Sith Apprentice Hett is going to be a great fight for Obi-Wan because he already gave him a good fight as a Jedi. When Hett was tortured by the Vong, he grew by an even greater extent, similar to how Jacen Solo grew more from the Vong torturing him than he did studying from obscure Force cults for years.

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DarthAdi

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@i_like_swords: Since you are the Krayt expert, Where do you hold Vong Krayt compared to the PT characters?

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@darthadi: He's difficult to rank, because you're looking at a top tier Force wielder who is being constantly hampered, having to devote power and focus just to maintain homeostasis. And when he fights intensely it exasperates the process. He's getting weaker throughout the series too: after the first Cade fight he is weakened, then by Vector he is weaker than ever since getting the coral seeds.

In short bursts he is probably Sidious level, like with him speedblitzing four high level Imperial Knights in a single comic page.

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Guru_Crack

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Krayt is my favourite sith lord by far but he is simply not on the level of Sidious.

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i_like_swords

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@guru_crack: This is not unforgivable, my fellow Krayter. The Sheevites are close allies of our Order.

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MyGod000

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#25  Edited By MyGod000

@i_like_swords said:

@mygod000:

Yeah, Reborn Krayt is about 100 years after the Abeloth fight, and is peak Krayt. He's fully healed etc.

He gained a "great deal" of power from his apprenticeship, then an even bigger boost when he was tortured by the Vong. That was when "Darth Krayt" was born. After that he fights Abeloth, then 100 years of struggling with the coral seeds later he is killed, only to come back to life fully healed and stronger than ever.

If we look at other examples in the lore, like DE Luke, Jacen Solo, Dooku etc, or even Anakin, embracing the dark side leads to a big power increase. So even Sith Apprentice Hett is going to be a great fight for Obi-Wan because he already gave him a good fight as a Jedi. When Hett was tortured by the Vong, he grew by an even greater extent, similar to how Jacen Solo grew more from the Vong torturing him than he did studying from obscure Force cults for years.

Well, I agree with your assessment of the Dark side granting users more power far quicker. while the light side could be argued to give you great power as well...but from what I've been seeing it takes for more patients, then the Dark side. I agree, that Hett was granted much more power from the dark side than he did from the light and Giving Post ROTS Obi-wan a hard fight is a great feat that really can't be denied.

The only thing i'd Disagree with is from your other post where you said Obi-wan=Vader...because of the conditions of Vader during that Mustafar fight it has to be taken into account. everything else you said, I agree Krayt gained a huge boost in power during his torturing by the Vong, from what I read as Hett he could only handle 3 of them before getting completely overwhelmed then after his He took the Name Darth Krayt he literally soloed that whole Ship and destroyed it.

which is why I am going to say I think Reborn krayt is more powerful than ROTS Sidious by a slight margin. However, I don't see Krayt stomping this fight, as much Sith Knowledge as Sidious has I think it could go either way.

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El_mago

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sidious yawnmurders

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Alsimmons77

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Papa Palpatine slaps another child back in their place

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Guru_Crack

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#29  Edited By Guru_Crack

@i_like_swords: Krayt one of your favs as well then? Like you more now haha

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Reborn Kryat > ROTS Sidious. Arguments have already been made.

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i_like_swords

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Kh0rn3

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i took Krayt over GEOM pretender

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- ROTS Vader was beating Obi-Wan, they were not evenly matched

- ROTS Vader did not try and Force push Obi-Wan, he was blocking

- ROTS Vader is nowhere near ROTS Sidious

- Using the Insider #62 quote is insanely disingenuous

Sidious wins with difficulty.