ROTS Anakin vs TROS Rey in a Force battle.

Force only.

Canon feats.

The Chosen One or MaRey Sue?

MaRey Sue

Anakin has no answer to her lightning and Rey has better TK feats as well.

Rey wins handily. TROS establishes this very clearly. Like it or not.

Anakin

Rey has the feats

Movies only Rey, Kylo and Luke have the best force feats

It says canon only,

He used a powerful Force wave while 4 magnaguards were electrocuting him.

@erkan12: and Rey dragged back a ship as it had all thrusters engaged then blew it up with ONE shot of force lightning

@snowleopard1018: It was a tiny ship. Even Inquisitors can do that.

anakin

@erkan12: ship was bigger than that, the thrusters are visibly engaged in the movie, and Rey also has a feat of lifting dozens of tons of rock

Rey benefits from being equals to Kylo who has some beastly feats in the Force

Rey by feats

But should we really consider FEATS more important than HYPE or STATEMENTS?

Rey has better feats but Anakin is the CHOSEN ONE and has more training.

It doesn't make any logical sense for him to lose this right?

Can't we just attribute Rey's better feats to superior pratical effects and different movie direction like we do when comparing OT Vader to Prequels characters?

@bananavist: No

Anakin has multiple mediums that aren’t constrained by practical effects ( Comics and Animated shows like CW) and he hasn’t shown anything like Rey or Kylo

And being the Chosen One doesn’t make him automatically better at TK it Barriers than anyone if the feats aren’t there.

Maybe scaling him off Luke or Ben who share similar power and potential to him as they inherited their potential from him but that’s shaky

Also Vader has better Force Feats than Anakin in Canon hell even Movie To Movie

If we’re talking who is stronger and has more raw power in the force, Anakin without a doubt.

Why the frig are people assuming that Rey has the lightning she used once in a circumstantial burst of rage? If we're using amped Rey, let's use Mortis Anakin.

That said, Anakin could handle Dooku's lightning and Dooku could equal Yoda with it. Rey's lightning will be nothing to him.

Having better feats is irrelevent, because holistic portrayal favors Anakin. Rey has better feats in the same way that movies-only Kit Fisto has better feats than Mace Windu.

Besides, Anakin does have better feats. Rey with maximum effort was slowly pulling an 18 meter transport towards her. AOTC Anakin with no discernable effort shoved a 22 meter AT-TE corpse with enough force to essentially cause an explosion on impact:

"The men sprinted for the door, plunging into the acrid black smoke that now filled the courtyard. It was some kind of cover for a few seconds. Anakin saw the droids, hampered by their own debris, and his eyes went to the blazing carcass of the AT-TE. Just do it. Adrenaline fueled him. He sent the wreckage skidding across the ground with a massive Force push. The kinetic force of the impact and the sheet of flame released when it slammed into the droid ranks had the effect of a bomb going off..."

-- Star Wars: The Clone Wars

Prime Anakin wins pretty solidly.

@lord_tenebrous said:

The TCW novelization is from 2008, i.e. not Disney canon.

@rgr:

Yes, like the movie. Film novelizations are canon in current continuity.

Lel, someone is defending Anakin because he whooped Dookie's butt.

No it's not.

https://twitter.com/delreystarwars/status/461579307341840384

''To clarify, movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie.''

That was never seen on screen.

And you're spreading misinformation as usual about that Legends feat when you say he did it easily, when the quote literally says ''the adrenaline fueled him.'' LOL

@erkan12: Are you Erkan from narutoforums?

The movie establishes Rey as the best. Why is this even a debate? It's just people who want to drudge through a feat or two from sources that aren't movies to try and have an argument. Movies are never going to make things look as cool as in comics or animated series. No, Rey is established as the greatest of them.

Anakin's prophecy isn't some GOAT status thing. He fulfilled his prophecy. It never stated he was the GOAT force user that will ever live.

Rey is pretty much the Avatar for Jedi.

Trash post continue to pervade

@erkan12:

Lel, someone is defending Anakin because he whooped Dookie's butt.

Classic Erkan, obsessed with Dooku and always bringing him up to spew misinformation.

No it's not. 'To clarify, movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie.' That was never seen on screen.

Classic Erkan, using the old and outdated sources. Try the new updated sources, which say that the entire film novelizations are canon:

And you're spreading misinformation as usual about that Legends feat when you say he did it easily, when the quote literally says 'the adrenaline fueled him.' LOL

Classic Erkan, twisting the words. Where does it say that he struggled? I'll wait. Having adrenaline does not = strain, and how does adrenaline affect the Force? LOL

@nomar:

The movie establishes Rey as the best.

No, it doesn't. Rey slowly performs a mediocre feat with max effort, loses badly to Kylo Ren, and is stomped by a half-dead weakened Palpatine on life support when she had Kylo for backup.

Rey is portrayed as a highly talented student who is training to become a Jedi Knight. Anakin on the other hand is not only also a mega-prodigy and a fully-trained Knight but one who is only still a Knight and not a friggin Master solely because of his mental state. By holistic portrayal Rey is more-so akin to AOTC Anakin than ROTS Anakin.

Why is this even a debate?

I agree.

It's just people who want to drudge through a feat or two from sources that aren't movies to try and have an argument.

Star Wars isn't just movies. It's comics, novels, video games, etc, whether you like or or not. A movies-only world doesn't exist, and acting like to does is just cherrypicking feats to suit a narrative.

Movies are never going to make things look as cool as in comics or animated series. No, Rey is established as the greatest of them.

Nah, Yoda quite clearly is established by the movies as the top Jedi. Rey is a struggling, poorly-trained student. Yoda is the ultimate Jedi Master in the prime of the Jedi Order.

Anakin's prophecy isn't some GOAT status thing. He fulfilled his prophecy.

Not at all. He didn't kill the Sith or end them, he just put Sidious on time-out then died.

Rey is pretty much the Avatar for Jedi

Nowhere close. That's so completely random, no one thinks that nor was it intended in the films.

Martin is talking about Episode 1-6 movie novels, not the clone wars novel. Thanks for proving that you can't read.

And he never says Episode 1-6 movie novels are canon as well, he says it shouldn't contradict with what is seen on screen. Which is also irrelevant with the clone wars novel.

Oh I see, using an adrenaline amp doesn't mean maximum effort in your fanfic world, I am not surprised as usual.

@erkan12:

Martin is talking about Episode 1-6 movie novels, not the clone wars novel. Thanks for proving that you can't read.

What do you think your outdated quote was talking about?

"To clarify, movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie.''

The 1-6 movie novels too. That has been changed by the updated sources, and you say that it is different for the Clone Wars movie novel? LOL

And he never says Episode 1-6 movie novels are canon as well, he says it shouldn't contradict with what is seen on screen. Which is also irrelevant with the clone wars novel.

He agrees that the novels are canon if they contradict the movie, but low canon.

Oh I see, using an adrenaline amp doesn't mean maximum effort in your fanfic world, I am not surprised as usual.

So, physical adrenaline rush means maximum effort and affects the Force? LOL, so ridiculous

I didn't say it's different, you think they are the same thing, lmao. You said martin said a different thing about the clone wars novel while he never even mentions about the Clone Wars novel in that discussion. LOL.

You don't even understand that they are only talking about the Episode 1-6 novels, not the Clone Wars novel.

He also never says Episode 1-6 Novels are all canon. He says it shouldn't contradict. And he definitely doesn't say anything about the Clone Wars novel, try to read carefully next time, though I don't have any hopes for that.

@erkan12:

I didn't say it's different, you think they are the same thing, lmao. You said martin said a different thing about the clone wars novel while he never even mentions about the Clone Wars novel in that discussion. LOL. You don't even understand that they are only talking about the Episode 1-6 novels, not the Clone Wars novel

LOL martin shows that your outdated quote is changed, the movie novels are now completely canon, and he was only asked about the 1-6 films. Why should it be different for the Clone Wars novel? The old movie novels are canon but the newer Clone Wars movie novel isn't? LOL

He also never says Episode 1-6 Novels are all canon. He says it shouldn't contradict. And he definitely doesn't say anything about the Clone Wars novel, try to read carefully next time, though I don't have any hopes for that.

Try reading this time:

Though I know you will try and deny the new and updated canon sources

@lord_tenebrous: Matt just didn't want to do those books down. Both quotes mean the same thing, which is that only what is seen on screen is truly considered as canon going forward. Thus, new stories are allowed to contradict anything else in those novelizations, yet should align with post-buyout novels.

I'm pretty sure there was something else that flat out said that the old novelizations weren't Canon. Hence why we got new novelizations for the OT.

@rgr:

That may have been the case in the past but it doesn't change the fact that Martin agreed that the novels are canon -- just bottom-level canon that can be overridden by any other material.

@wolfrazer: Yeah there's also this:

@rgr: Ah thanks, had been looking for that, couldn't find it. Still I think that is more concrete than whatever Del Ray(sp?) said as it's coming from someone who has more authority.

Rey’s got more potential. Doesn’t change the fact she’s losing here

@wolfrazer:

Dates buddy, dates. As of right now, the movie novelizations are canon.

@lord_tenebrous: They aren't, as they don't effect future stories. Again, Matt is just encouraging people to enjoy those books, but they are not considered part of the SW universe going forward (i.e. true canon).

@rgr said:

@lord_tenebrous: They aren't, as they don't effect future stories. Again, Matt is just encouraging people to enjoy those books, but they are not considered part of the SW universe going forward (i.e. true canon).

Yup, he never said all of it are canon anyway and he was talking about only Episode 1-6 novels. Anyways, I think we've wasted too much of our time with the extreme dooku fan and the lowballer who believes dooku stomps vader and saesee tiin stomps maul.

This is coming from the same guy ''SoD comic book is canon but Windu + Aayla vs. Maul duel isn't canon because bla bla'' apologist... :))

If you don't have anything better than ''why should it be different for the clone wars novel?'' than you have nothing. That's your fanfic logic, it's not an evidence.

Delrey specifically mentioned about the Clone Wars novel in their quote, they didn't think like you ''oh, why should it be different for the clone wars novel'', they specifically mentioned it, because they needed to.

1- So martin never mentioned about the clone wars novel and it doesn't apply to that novel.

2- He still doesn't even say Episode 1-6 novels are definitely canon, as rgr said he is trying to encourage others to read it. And that's still irrelevant because he isn't talking about the clone wars novel.

@erkan12: Yup. From Matt's tweets it's apparent he doesn't want people to lose interest in a story just because it's labeled as non-canon, and he knows Del Rey also wouldn't want that, so he ended up giving that vague "there's nothing wrong in believing it happened" answer. Doesn't mean it definitely happened.

Apart from the fact it was stated in 2014 that any previous material was considered Legends, it's clear that those events are not registered in the canon Holocron database, since he did say:

A) Canon only matters in how it effects future storytelling.

B) The old novelizations don't effect future storytelling, as authors will not be stopped from contradicting them.

We just need to put 2+2 together.

@rgr:

They aren't, as they don't effect future stories. Again, Matt is just encouraging people to enjoy those books, but they are not considered part of the SW universe going forward (i.e. true canon)| Yup. From Matt's tweets it's apparent he doesn't want people to lose interest in a story just because it's labeled as non-canon, and he knows Del Rey also wouldn't want that, so he ended up giving that vague 'there's nothing wrong in believing it happened' answer. Doesn't mean it definitely happened. Apart from the fact it was stated in 2014 that any previous material was considered Legends, it's clear that those events are not registered in the canon Holocron database, since he did say: A) Canon only matters in how it effects future storytelling. B) The old novelizations don't effect future storytelling, as authors will not be stopped from contradicting them. We just need to put 2+2 together.

They literally are. You are flailing all over the place with older quotes and ludicrous logic that doesn't change anything. The novels are canon. Martin explicitly endorsed the idea:

That's just the way it is. Your older quotes and Martin liking the novel have no bearing in this discussion. Get over it.

@erkan12:

This is coming from the same guy 'SoD comic book is canon but Windu + Aayla vs. Maul duel isn't canon because bla bla' apologist...

This is coming from the same guy who thinks that there are no contradictions in canon because it's called canon...

If you don't have anything better than 'why should it be different for the clone wars novel?' than you have nothing. That's your fanfic logic, it's not an evidence.

So, you don't have any evidence to prove that it doesn't apply to the Clone Wars film too? Just what I thought. Logic >>> your opinion. Concession accepted.

Delrey specifically mentioned about the Clone Wars novel in their quote, they didn't think like you 'oh, why should it be different for the clone wars novel', they specifically mentioned it, because they needed to

They mentioned it because they were talking about films in general. Martin was only asked about 1-6 and that's what he answered.

1- So martin never mentioned about the clone wars novel and it doesn't apply to that novel.

1) The idea of film novelizations being non-canon has been retconned and there's no reason to believe it doesn't apply to the Clone Wars novelization

2- He still doesn't even say Episode 1-6 novels are definitely canon, as rgr said he is trying to encourage others to read it. And that's still irrelevant because he isn't talking about the clone wars novel.

2) Martin liking the novel and wanting people to read it has literally nothing to do with this, and never will. Martin specifically supported the idea that the film novels are canon:

And that's that. End of story.

@lord_tenebrous: No need to get all defensive over a disagreement, buddy.

You're treating this as if it were an overnight retcon of their canon policy, and it's quite obvious to me that is not what happened, so I'm still using those 2018 statements. Martin directly answered that the old novelizations are not canon (see my posts above). As you point out, recently he said that to consider them true until contradicted is "a good way to look at it", but that doesn't mean it's the only good way to look at it, all the more when in the very same conversation he said those events can happily be contradicted. So, those events are not something that definitely happened.

Now, you can make the bold claim that they weren't considered canon in 2018 but they are now, or you can explain his newer statement by understanding that flat-out saying something is non-canon is bad marketing. Understanding how the company works is helpful to contextualize his statements. Every canon event is registered as part of the continuity in the Holocron database for the Story Group and authors to check and align their stories to. Per Martin, the events in those old novelizations are not to be considered by authors, so they clearly are not included in the canon database. As far as the company is concerned, those events don't exist, but there's no harm in telling a potential consumer that believing the novelizations are true until they aren't is "a good way to look at it".

But hey, I will not try to impose my reasoning on you, obvious at it seems to me. Hope we can agree to disagree.

@erkan12:

Martin confirmed that his quote applied to the TCW novelization:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hdTiVSdNZW4pbZJJ6

Concede.

@rgr:

No need to get all defensive over a disagreement, buddy.

This is true, I became unnecessarily heated and for that I apologize.

You're treating this as if it were an overnight retcon of their canon policy, and it's quite obvious to me that is not what happened, so I'm still using those 2018 statements. Martin directly answered that the old novelizations are not canon (see my posts above). As you point out, recently he said that to consider them true until contradicted is 'a good way to look at it', but that doesn't mean it's the only good way to look at it, all the more when in the very same conversation he said those events can happily be contradicted. So, those events are not something that definitely happened. Now, you can make the bold claim that they weren't considered canon in 2018 but they are now, or you can explain his newer statement by understanding that flat-out saying something is non-canon is bad marketing. Understanding how the company works is helpful to contextualize his statements. Every canon event is registered as part of the continuity in the Holocron database for the Story Group and authors to check and align their stories to. Per Martin, the events in those old novelizations are not to be considered by authors, so they clearly are not included in the canon database. As far as the company is concerned, those events don't exist, but there's no harm in telling a potential consumer that believing the novelizations are true until they aren't is 'a good way to look at it'.

I see what you mean, but this can be reconciled by saying that Martin was simply referring to those direct instances of obviously legends material, such as Depa Billaba's fall. Everything else aside from those mentions, that does not contradict anything, would fall into the category of low-canon that, as Martin says, new writers would not need to abide by.

Martin said the novels being canon, but low canon is a good way to look at it, which directly contradicts the idea that the entire novel is non-canon apart from where it directly aligns with the films.

@lord_tenebrous said:

This is true, I became unnecessarily heated and for that I apologize.

No worries :)

I see what you mean, but this can be reconciled by saying that Martin was simply referring to those direct instances of obviously legends material, such as Depa Billaba's fall. Everything else aside from those mentions, that does not contradict anything, would fall into the category of low-canon that, as Martin says, new writers would not need to abide by.

Martin said the novels being canon, but low canon is a good way to look at it, which directly contradicts the idea that the entire novel is non-canon apart from where it directly aligns with the films.

I understand your position, but I still stand by mine. The sole purpose of the canon policy is to keep a consistent continuity. Some event that is not to be taken into account for future storytelling I wouldn't call canon, even if Martin now says that it's a good way to look at it as overridable canon, because I think that he's only trying to not put readers off and he was being more honest in the past when he answered that they weren't canon.

Martin:

1. (as well as Chee) has said nothing he or any other SW official says on social media is canon,
2. he has contradicted himself on Twitter, and
3. he and Chee have contradicted each other on Twitter.

I love how SWs fanatics wanna use the novelizations because of hyperbole. Especially when they don't sync with what we see on film. Hyperbolic text is what SWs fans live for.

@nomar:

Hyperbole? Do you even know what the word means? Anakin has straight-up better feats as early as shortly after Attack of the Clones. Star Wars isn't just the movies buddy, get over it.