ROTJ Luke vs TROS Rey

Canon Luke.

No Amp on either side.

Lightsabers+Force allowed

Bonus : Add ROTS Anakin into the mix.

There’s an ongoing thread about this one.

No Amps means she probably can’t beat Luke’s sabers.

She isn’t replicating his Vader feat even conflicted.

Rey’s dueling showings to this point haven’t been great. Her performances against Kylo in this movie ranged from equal, to being toyed with.. She never had the upper hand and lost to him decisively in their last fight.

probably loses. unamped rey hasn't shown anything beyond Dooku level. ROTJ Luke kinda shits on Dookie like 9.5/10. Luke probably wins 9+/10.

Don't see how ROTJ Luke shits on Dooku, especially in canon;

@bananavist: ROTJ Luke >= Vader > Dooku in canon.

I think ROTJ Luke should win in a good fight. Rey has more raw power but Luke is more skilled. That being said, I think Location would play a big part in this. Like Death Star Throne Room? Luke wrecks. An open desert or Anch-To Island? Rey could have the upper hand.

If Luke is amped you could make an argument for him winning in a duel. But un-amped Rey trashes him like 9/10 , force power difference is just too big.

@idrisiangraecus: Luke bested a conflicted Vader. Him being above a prime bloodlusted Vader is highly questionable.

@alextheboss: Any proof Vader was conflicted? Multiple sources say that the pair were equals. And in canon, ROTJ Vader >> Zonakin >>> Dooku, so...

@idrisiangraecus: Luke himself in the actual movie said he felt Vader’s conflict. Someone on here said Snoke supposedly confirmed Vader was holding back, but I don’t know if that’s actually true. All I know is Vader has way better feats than ROTJ Luke.

@alextheboss: He felt Vader’s conflict with the LS. The novel and other (omniscient) sources make it clear Vader was going all out and that Luke >= him.

luke. her force powers arent doing so much to inhibit luke and hes the better duelist

Luke at least battled and overwhelmed Canon Darth Vader due to his anger. Canon Darth Vader scales higher than anyone in the new trilogy without Rey Amp powers. Kylo Ren’s whole ambition in new trilogy is to reach the status of his grandfather Vader.

@alextheboss: luke was holding back at least as much as vader was. luke repeatedly said "i will not fight you father" and was very much trying not to kill vader, he was trying to to turn vader. Even though Vader has gotten really good feats since that film, i think we're supposed to scale luke to vader's level.

@idrisiangraecus: The novel isn’t canon, and the new canon is trying to spin Vader to be some unstoppable beast, even though that clearly wasn’t the original intention. It used to be that Vader was weaker than Anakin was on par with Maul and Dooku, but now he is stronger than Anakin and closer to Yoda and Sidious.

@wholewheat: It’s possible, but Luke’s showings earlier in the movie really weren’t that great. The current canon power scaling is a bit difficult because it seems they are deciding to up everyone’s power level, and Vader is one of the ones who got the biggest buff.

I can’t see Luke losing

Rey electrocutes Luke, she is also stronger in the force especially when she uses the dark side. And when Luke defeated Vader in ROTJ, he was well past his prime. Because Vader died shortly after he threw Palpatine down the reactor shaft.

Rey is more powerful. She wins

@alextheboss: there's been less canon material with luke in it, and fewer opportunities for him to show his power. story wise it also makes sense that vader would use his full power more often cause dark side and the shit he does. there's been a canon showing of esb luke shaking a star destroyer when enraged. the more controversial opinion I have is that new republic Leia is on the same level as Vader, at least in dueling, because she was on par with Luke in dueling. big fan of scaling

@wholewheat: Well Luke has to focus when lifting his x wing, so I doubt he is some super crazy beast. I feel like at his max power he was about on par with Yoda, and him and Yoda are slightly above Vader. ROTJ Luke may be on par or even abive Vader in saber combat, as stupid as that is, but he didn’t show he was above him in force combat. And earlier in the movie he did a lot worse against Jaaba’s goons than a prime Vader would have, considering Vader took on a small Rebel army by himself and won.

@alextheboss: “And earlier in the movie he did a lot worse against Jaaba’s goons than a prime Vader would have, considering Vader took on a small Rebel army by himself and won.”

One of those was in a movie from 1983 and another is from a comic that came out a few years ago. Not all that fair to compare them like that, especially considering how Luke was stomping groups of stormtroopers in the Shattered Empire comic and Battlefront II campaign which took place a few days and a few months after ROTJ respectively.

i'll say it again, canon Vader is above Luke. Luke Never surpassed Vader, in the force it was stated by snoke that Vader only lost to Luke Because of the conflict he was having within himself...this is why Ben Solo in the Last Jedi thinks Anakin is weak.

Luke Surpassed Yoda, and Yoda is below the two Sith Lords. it's pretty much stated before there deaths that the last two Sith Lords>>>The Jedi

This includes Yoda. ROTJ Sidious>=ROTJ Vader>>>Post ROTJ Luke>Yoda=ROTS Sidious>>>>everyone else.

Now, they've added some new Sith lords in canon from legends.

Luke

@thevivas: I just read shattered empire and I played Battlefront 2 a while back, and I didn’t see Luke do anything any other high tier couldn’t do. Luke is definitely master level by episode 6, but besides beating Vader, which could be argued as circumstantial, the rest of his feats are lacking. Him beating characters like Maul, Dooku, and Mace is based completely off of scaling off the Vader fight. You can argue him beating Rey due to Rey having barely any dueling accolades, but it’s still based off of scaling and hype.

Luke butchers him

Luke toys her

By implication, I feel like Rey and Luke would be pretty close Force wise, but Luke definitely has the solid edge in lightsaber combat. Luke should take this I would think.

luke tooses her away like a ragdoll adding anakin is unfair

@alextheboss: What are you talking about? You first claimed Vader is lore impressive than Luke and used Luke’s showings against Jabba’s thugs to say he’s nowhere near Vader, and when I reply that A) one instance was from 1983 and one was from a comic a few years ago and B) Luke in the comics himself has been seen taking on larger and better trained groups than what Jabba had, indicating that showing can’t be used to try and downplay his skills, your reply is “he didn’t do anything any other high tier can’t do”?

I don’t care what other high tiers are capable of and they aren’t relevant to my point.

@thevivas: Well first off beginning of ROTJ Luke and post ROTJ aren’t the same. Look how much Rey advanced in TFA. She went from skilled human to beating a hindered Kylo Ren. Second off, his showings in Battlefront 2 and shattered empire are only slightly better than his showings at Jabba’s Palace. Luke seems to be concistently weaker than Vader. The only thing that seems to imply him being stronger is him ripping Star Destroyers out of the sky at the battle of Jaku, but I’m not sure how seriously that feat should be taken since we don’t know all the facts around it, and how massive of an outlier it is. If it’s legit, I wouldn’t be surprised if Luke was channeling all the past jedi through him like Rey did.

Rey wasnt Amped, she literally just reflected Lightning with a Saber, and won due to some shady PIS//Sidious’s cockiness (Like seriously just stop using Lightning lmao).

Anyways, by the end of Episode 9 this is a close fight. Rey has Force Feats that are not replicated by Luke during the Original Trilogy, and arent surpassed by him until Post-ROTJ. We already know characters can grow a lot in a short period of time too.

Whether or not Luke could beat Dooku, or other CW fighters is debatable.

I generally dislike Scaling arguments especially considering how circumstantial fights can be (For instance, Obi Wan defeating Vader on Mustafar, despite being ragdolled by Dooku. Or Mace beating Sidious) So to me, while ROTJ Luke is definitely on that “Jedi Master” level, you cant say he’s clear-cut above Dooku, or Mace, or Yoda. Theres a lot more that goes into a fight that that. (Also Yoda in the original trilogy is past prime and out of practice, so using that to scale Luke is a shakey foundation at best)

In my Opinion, Luke would be Superior in Sabers, although not by some great amount, and Rey would have the slight edge in the Force. For instance, she just uses it Mid-Battle, more effectively than Luke did. Blocking Saber Blows, better Battlefield awareness, ect

Not to mention, TLJ Luke flat ot states “Ive only seen this kind of raw power once before.” Implying that, either both Kylo and Rey are Demonstrated as greater than ROTJ Sidious/Vader in Raw Force power, or that Rey is on par with ROTJ Sidious/Vader in raw force power. I guess you could account that to Luke just being scared but, then youd have to admit that TLJ Luke is inferior to Rey, and thats just not right.

@alextheboss: “Well first off beginning of ROTJ Luke and post ROTJ aren’t the same. Look how much Rey advanced in TFA. She went from skilled human to beating a hindered Kylo Ren.”

That’s nowhere near the same thing. At the end of TFA Rey now knows she has the Force and already has tapped into it. Luke doesn’t go through any of that during ROTJ.

“Second off, his showings in Battlefront 2 and shattered empire are only slightly better than his showings at Jabba’s Palace.”

No, they’re way better.

@thevivas:

I’m not saying Luke made the same leap Rey did, but defeating Vader was supposed to be his final test, and he completed it.

Luke beat small groups of stormtroopers in Battlefront 2, but Cal did the same in Fallen Order. Luke best small groups of stormtroopers in shattered empire as well.

Nothing he did seemed unreasonable. I for one think Disney is going a little too far with how powerful they are making canon Vader, and it’s messing up the movie scaling because Vader clearly wasn’t intended to be that powerful. When making the original trilogy Lucas thought Kenobi might actually be stronger than Vader, and when he made the prequels he said that was the Jedi in their prime and why the duels were more impressive. He never intended Vader to be an unstoppable monster, which was why Luke was able to beat him with little training.

Why are we downplaying Luke now?

According the J.J Abrams The SkyWalkers bloodline is the strongest in the universe of Star wars.

I won't argue Movie showings as Rey has Clearly better Showings...and that is kinda unfair because ESB and ROTJ was made in like 1980 and 1983 while TFA was released in 2015 up to 2019 for the new trilogy. Had ESB and ROTJ been made by today's standards, Luke would have far Better showings.

All we can go by is what We know which is the Skywalkers potential powers is the strongest in the verse.

Because Luke Comes from an inherently stronger bloodline he should be far more powerful than Rey who comes from Palpatine who is very powerful...but Both Anakin and Luke had the power to kill him. Hell, you can Throw Leia in there as well.

Luke is highly overrated no offense, he defeated his father Vader/Anakin in a weakened state because of many years of being part cyborg in ROTJ. Luke got bested by Ben Solo/kylo ren as a padawan when he had his Jedi academy. And he got beaten by padawan Rey without any training in the last Jedi, in a wooden stick fight lol. Rey electrocutes Luke with force lightning or overpowers him with telekinesis. ROTS Anakin is vastly stronger than Luke, and wins the majority against base Rey but stalemates dark side Rey in my opinion.

Rey lifting a mountainside of stones >>>>>> Post RotJ Luke who can barely lift a boulder>/= Vader >/= RotJ Sidious >>>>> killed with a wave of his (Sidious) hand RotJ Luke.

Rey stomps.

@redshift_bacon: both luke and Rey come from desert-based planets, one from Tatooine the other from Jakku. Thus the environment won't be a disadvantage to either of them. for environment purposes of the fight, I would have to say to try and make it a non-biased fight to choose planet Mustafar. It's an amazing environment for a duel and luke and Rey's duel could then be compared to Obi-wan and Anakin's duel in ROTS.

Luke was able to shake a Star Destroyer Pre prime I doubt he’s getting stomped in the force and he has superior saber skills by ROTJ

goes either way

Easy. Luke takes the cake,this is no competition at all. By ROTJ Luke is calm, confident, skilled and radiates power. The man just finished learning at the feet of the greatest Jedi master in star wars history. Luke combat style is extremely precise, fast, and powerful. I would say ROTJ Luke strikes as hard as Anakin, is precise like dooku, and is fast. He would guide the duel the entire fight constantly trying to get Rey to snap out of it. A better fight would be TESB Luke vs TROS Rey. TESB was more reckless, quick to anger, and wild. This would give Rey better countering opportunities aswell as manuvering herself to a better tactical advantage, increasing her margin of victory by a large margin, however if she is not careful Luke's sudden explosion of anger could overwhelm her. Just like Luke was able to use his anger to score a quick and powerful blow on Vader except if it was Rey that is a potentially lethal blow.

Luke

Luke

Rey due to feminism wank by disney.

Agreed but Rey does not have more raw power. The Skywalker family has the most raw power. Rey indeed has immense raw power as a Palpatine but she doesn't come from a lineage that can be traced back to the force itself. Remember Luke's grandfather is literally the force. Anakin was the greatest force potential of all time in all of history. This was ruined when he fell to the dark side/became conflicted and was severely physically damaged. His biological potential in the force was passed down to Luke and Leia.

What would give Rey the advantage in an open desert? Like exactly where Luke grew up and was extremely familiar with.

Unfortunately I think you are right. However, I hear Kathleen Kennedy is being shut out of a lot of future Star Wars creative writing. John Favreau single handedly making Star Wars great again while sidelining the crap banshee that is Kennedy.

You have proof that ROTJ suit Vader weaker than other version of suit vader?