ROTJ Luke vs ROTJ Sidious

vs

young prime luke takes on palpatine's wrinkly old @$$ and vader had a stroke 5 minutes ago so he cant save him

canon feats only non of that expansion pack universe crap

Palpatine stomps 10/10. If you want to see how this fight goes watch Snoke vs Rey or ep 2 Anakin when he ran at Dooku.

@kingjedi: Apparently Sidious is nearly all powerful but then shit in one v ones.

Sidious unfortunately and kind of irritatingly has taken a hit in canon. They need to show him do some crazy shit in novels and comics because in canon mostly he’s just losing in stupid ways.

Still, Luke isn’t prepared for this. Had he kept his saber, idk maybe he could have just deflected Sidious’s lighting back but he mostt likely would lose here.

I do think Luke eventually surpassed him though.

@kingjedi: Did you watch the new movie yet?

Lol..? Alright dont get me wrong, Sidious, by all metrics, on paper, should be able to Stomp Luke. Way more experienced, More Versatility, more Powaaaaa. That Said, Sidious is a Jobber. Like, Bad, you guys.

Sidious v Mace: Sidious loses to a weaker opponent because of his own Force Lightning

Sidious v Yoda: Sidious almost loses Again due to his own Force Lightning

Sidious v Vader/Luke: Sidious provides no resistance to Vader and just Force Lightnings his way down a death pit

Sidious v Rey: Sidious loses to a weaker opponent because of his own Force Lightning

I mean come on, this guy, despite being a wicked long-term planner, is the king of PIS.

Luke Probably just holds up his Lightsaber and reflects Sidious’s Lightning back at him until he melts away. Tickle Fingers doesnt know how to do anything else in canon.

@alextheboss: Of course.

Luke is only an equal of Vader

Vader also knows that the Emperor is toying with Luke. He has been told by the Emperor, ‘When he starts to strike me, you’re going to have to take him out.’ If Vader doesn’t block Luke’s lazer sword, the Emperor could just raise his hand and that would be the end of it. Then Vader would be in trouble: "Lord Vader, what happened to you? Did you not get your cue?"

George Lucas, The Making of Return of the Jedi

That doesn't get him far.

luke lost to regular sidious, he gets curbstomped

Luke gets stomped

Palps stomps

Nobody can really compete with Palps

Sidious is winning this without much difficulty.

@kingjedi: Then you should know Palpatine has the best feat in canon.

@alextheboss: I don’t think you read or understood my comment.

@kingjedi: I read it. It’s just wrong.

-Sidious beat Maul and Savage at the same time, one of, if not the best dueling feats in canon

-Sidious blitzes and casually killed three masters, also arguably the best dueling feat in canon

-The new movie gives evidence Palp threw the fight with Mace.

-stalemated Yoda

-casually beat Luke

-casually ragdolled Rey and Ben at the same time

-force drained them

-flung Ben down a pit

-was about to take out an entire fleet

-was only taken out due to an all Jedi amp, Rey needed lightsabers to protect herself while Palp was unarmed, and Rey died from the strain on her body

Didn’t we already see this in ROTJ? It was pretty evident that Luke wasn’t ready to face the emperor

@redshift_bacon:

Lol..? Alright dont get me wrong, Sidious, by all metrics, on paper, should be able to Stomp Luke. Way more experienced, More Versatility, more Powaaaaa. That Said, Sidious is a Jobber. Like, Bad, you guys.

Only a little tbh. His biggest moment of jobbing was continously firing his lightining that's killing him, nothing else sticks out too much.

Sidious v Mace: Sidious loses to a weaker opponent because of his own Force Lightning

Also because Mace utilizes a fighting style that feeds off of Sidious's own dark side abilities (Vaapad). His showing of force lightning is therefore, only more impressive, considering Mace struggled to block it whereas Dooku's lightning gets casually blocked by AOTC Kenobi who is much weaker than ROTS Mace and doesn't utilize Vaapad (there also the likelihood that Sidious threw the fight to get Anakin to turn to the dark side).

Sidious v Yoda: Sidious almost loses Again due to his own Force Lightning

Yoda is regarded as the most powerful Jedi amoung the entire Jedi Order and he is in his prime while Sidious is pre-prime during ROTS. Even then, both Yoda and Sidious are both blown back despite the fact that Yoda is using a technique that basically nullifies force lightning.

Sidious v Vader/Luke: Sidious provides no resistance to Vader and just Force Lightnings his way down a death pit

That force lightning plus Sidious's dark powers being released from his "death" ultimately kill Vader.

Sidious v Rey: Sidious loses to a weaker opponent because of his own Force Lightning

He was ragdolling her and Kylo prior to being healed by the Dyad abilities and Rey needed the help of all the Jedi to overcome Sidious's lightning... and she still dies anyways.

I mean come on, this guy, despite being a wicked long-term planner, is the king of PIS.

Tell that to Darth Maul.

OT:

Well Luke is equal to Vader.

So Sheev kills him with a hand wave.

@gangorca: Im pretty sure that In Canon, Vader is stated to be unhindered in his fight against Luke. Based on Vader being above ROTS Anakin, and based on Lukes performance against Vader, we can comfortably place Luke into that 9.0 tier from the Gallard system.

Hence, if Luke had pre-existing knowledge on Sidious, he should be able to do to Sidious, the same thing that Mace, or Rey did to Sidious.

Lucas already believes Luke would've been dead had Vader not intercepted his strike against the Emperor. Now granted, Disney canon has it's own interpretations but the fact is Vader is still inferior to Sidious who is at least on-par with ROTJ Luke. So far, the only people who have straight up deflected (which isn't the same as blocking) Sidious's lightning were those that had a force advantage over him or were at least on-par with him.

Luke simply stands no chance here. The only case you have for making him last even a minute is if old Palpatine just continously blasts him with lightning and decides not to use the force by other means. It's silly to use plot armor as his defense unless it's an actual canon ability of the character like some meta-fictional bullshit.

Vader will can solo Sheev with bare hand.

@alextheboss:

"-The new movie gives evidence Palp threw the fight with Mace."

What is are evidence?

Bruh, Vader isn't in this fight and he'd lose to Sidious in a straight 1 v 1 fight.

how vader can lose a sheev?

By being weaker in the force and having a weakness to force lightning.

No have.

Vader winning against Sheev by feat and scaling and statement.

lmao what feats and scaling? Struggling with Ben Kenobi and prime Ashoka? Scaling above Anakin who is also not in Sidious's league? Vader needing Luke in order to challenge Sidious's power in ROTJ? Vader has never been confirmed to be directly stronger than Sidious, only in potential. He does have those 'most powerful Sith' quotes but guess who else has those?

@gangorca: dude its pretty obvious he's trolling

Yeah, but some of the stuff he comes up with is hilarious, like arguing ROTS Kenobi is equal to Sidious.

When I say that ROTS Kenobi equal to Sheev? ROTS Kenobi are not equal to sheev.

I not a troll. You have proof?

lmao what feats and scaling?

We have fight where Sheev get beaten. Yoda is stomp Sheev and Mace Windu is also stomp Sheev. Both of they is below Anakin Skywalker by statement:

This is Anakin Skywalker:

The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.

He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Gillard also reports that the duel will explain how Obi-Wan is able to defeat his protege, even though Anakin has been established as the most powerful Jedi who ever lived.

Source: The Making of Revenge of the Sith

"Fully defeated by just anyone, the dark side cannot be, but only by the Chosen One. And who might be this Jedi? Know I do not, but not yet born is he or she. This much, sense I can. A vessel of pure Force the Chosen One will be, more powerful than any Jedi in history."

Source: Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force

Even after all these months, she couldn't make herself entirely believe that actual Jedi blood ran in her veins-not only Jedi blood, but the blood of arguably the most powerful Jedi in history.

Source: Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor

Anakin Skywalker > Yoda and Mace >>>>>>>>>> Sheev by a feat.

Pre suit Vader > Anakin Skywalker > Yoda and Mace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sheev.

He knelt before Darth Sidious, adopting the mantle of Darth Vader. Tapping into the dark side, Anakin found his powers increasing.

-- http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker-biography-gallery

Suit Vader > PSV

VADER COMPLETED HIS MEDITATION and opened his eyes. His pale, flame-savaged face stared back at him from out of the reflective black surface of his pressurized meditation chamber. Without the neural connection to his armor, he was conscious of the stumps of his legs, the ruin of his arm, the perpetual pain in his flesh. He welcomed it. Pain fed his hate, and hate fed his strength. Once, as a Jedi, he had meditated to find peace. Now he meditated to sharpen the edges of his anger.

He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it a ruin, but they’d perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight.

-- Lords Of The Sith

Is simple scaling really.

Vader has never been confirmed to be directly stronger than Sidious, only in potential.

really ?

Is canonical statement that vader above sheev.

The fact that Palpatine regained the same shriveled up face after absorbing the dyad, which would imply it's dark side degradation or his true form rather than lightnign scars.

Also you know the guy who made that top red lightsaber list said it wasn't in order right?

Also you bring up Lords of the Sith to prove Vader>Anakin, but that book literally showed Palpatine while holding back was above Vader...

@sheevsmacker:

When I say that ROTS Kenobi equal to Sheev?

BRUH

You've been debunked by w4nkdestroyer on practically all of your other points so no need to say anymore on that. I'm too lazy for that.

Sidious tools him. It's not even a fight; it's a mismatch.

@gangorca: i debunk w4nkdestroyer.

concession accepted.

Make this TLJ Luke and we got a fight

@sheevsmacker said:

He's referring to the fact that when Palpatine dominates, then drains the combined power of Kylo & Rey, he is restored to a withered, deformed state. The state that Palpatine was left in when Mace overpowered and reflected the lightning bolts back.

Oh, didn't see that an explanation had already been provided.

Mace whooped his ass sidious overrated

who will win Luke or Sheev?

The fact that this thread has people legitimately arguing for ROTJ Luke is giving me an existential crisis.

Superiors generally beg their parents to save them, scream in pain, and just let their opponent zap them to death to show their superiority.