ROTJ Luke Skywalker vs AOTC Count Dooku

Luke Skywalker (ROTJ)

Count Dooku (AOTC)

Rules

• Movie versions
• Bloodlust is on
• Dooku's ROTS feats may apply (although there weren't many)
• Takes place where Luke and Vader fought in ROTJ
• No prep
• Dooku knows that Luke is the son of Anakin

Most certainly Dooku

Anakin beat Dooku in sheer skill, but his power at the time was roughly in the same tier. Then he went dark and got boosted from Kenobi's betrayal, then he got a serious boost from Padme's death. And Luke overpowered that.

If Luke wasn't so damn strong it would end quickly in Dooku's favor, but it's a coin flip imo. Dramatic skill advantage vs dramatic stat advantage.

I've heard a saying along these lines: the one the greatest martial arts fears is not the one with the best style, but the one with none at all. This does hold true..it was Anakin's mistake to try and mirror Dooku's moves. Luke wont make that mistake, he's just gonna do a backflip then flail around like the overpowered madman he is.

Dooku, he held his own against Yoda.

I reject your rule of movie versions only, am adding tcw cartoon feats and dooku wins

Probably Luke for a slight majority, gained an upper hand against Vader, while Vader was ready to kill him, and lastly comfortably defeated Vader in the end. Luke has the physical strength to overpower Dooku, more importantly he doesn't have any mobility and agility weakness like Vader has. Luke should take it.

Yeah when Yoda was also holding back against his former apprentice, and Dooku still outclassed against him. Yoda isn't going to one-shot Dooku level opponents either way, I don't know why this means anything.

Luke thanks to raw power and stats.

Actually Lucas stated that the suited version of Vader was less capable and powerful than the pre-suited version.

Excuse me?

Dooku ragdolls Luke just like he did Kenobi if he so chooses. He could also outduel him..considering movie Vader has done absolutely nothing to put him on the level of Dooku.

@frozen: With a lightsaber, idr him ever saying he's weaker with the Force. According to the Ep 5 commentary, Luke is Lucas's answer to what Anakin would have been had he reached his full potential instead of getting crippled. Vader beat Luke in Ep 5. He clearly has an edge somewhere, and it's not his deuling. I also don't rmember Anakin bringing down any Cathedrals or AT-ATs with his Force powers...

The first feat is a Legends one so it doesn't count, and Vader never brought down an AT-AT. Just stopped it from moving and messed with the internal mechanisms.

Dooku is the better Force user, more raw power and mastery. In terms of pure technical skill Dooku is above Luke, he has received more training then Luke and in general his technique is near flawless. On the otherside, Luke has the strength and raw skill to make it a hell of a fight, considering he employs Djem So and matched Vader in strength. You could claim that Dooku's Makashi unknown to Luke but then again Luke has mirrored Vader's Djem So directly so I doubt it would cause a radically different outcome.

The fight could go either way

Agreed with post 3 and 12.

Unless Luke actually gets mad, I'm not seeing how he'll win.

Dooku.

Luke was able to defeat a Darth Vader that was severely holding back. I think it was made quite obvious in Return of The Jedi that Darth Vader wasnt quite Darth Vader, he was still shaken up by Luke after suppressing memories of his former self for so many years and had even more time after The Empire Strikes Back to process these emotions. Remembering his former self and Padme had weakened him considerably, the hate and drive that drove him all those years as the feared Sith lord Darth Vader simply wasnt there anymore. And this is ROTJ Lukes best feat, defeating an extremely powerful sith lord who happened to be his father and whom i might add was in a serious conflict with his self and at the same time holding back tremendously. Vader had no intention of killing Luke even though he was fully capable of doing so physically. You honestly think a Jedi with five years of training could beat a serious fully capable Darth Vader in a fair fight? Not a chance. With that said Dooku stomps ROTJ Luke with ease. Its not a fair fight, Now if this was Luke with atleast a decade and some change under his belt i might change my answer and if this was grand master Luke i,d pick him no question. But Luke at this stage simply wasnt a match for a top tier sith lord such as Dooku.

@frozen:

Dooku. You've ecentially castrated Luke with the movie rules.

Dooku everytime, never see why people keep bringing up the Dooku fight vs. Yoda. Dooku never held his own against Yoda.

Movie versions? Luke still gets his arse handed to him.

Dooku

Movie Luke was able to beat Vader pretty badly; and my OP stipulated that he is bloodlusted.

@frozen:

Movie Vader (excluding TK) would lose to padawan Obi-Wan.

Why?

Dooku

@frozen:

Well padawan Obi-Wan (ha wan wan) has better feats. Vaders only (movie) feats are as follow:

Threw some things with the force

Throwing his lightsaber

Force choked some guys

Strangling a guy

Force deflection

Beating Luke

Lost to Luke

Dun Möch

None of this leads to me believing he'd beat ep1 Obi.

@serpinethegreen: What did episode 1 Obi-Wan accomplish again? I can't really remember TPM besides Obi-Wan losing to Darth Maul and using the plot to beat Maul as Maul celebrated in 'victory'.

@frozen:

I don't think accomplish is the right word, but the film version is a lot faster, agile, and aggressive than Vader in combat TBH you should probably put TPM Obi-Wan and ROTJ Luke (movie versions) in a match. That would be a lot better than this matchup.

Movie only dooku does not have great raw power feats, and in the movies the whole legends/EU "you need to be a stronger force user to radgoll someone" was never cleared IIRC, while the films clearly wanted to portray Luke as superior to vader in the force in episode 6.

@pierpat: Dooku collapsed a decent amount of rocks from the ceiling onto Yoda, and threw a fairly large canister at Yoda. Luke's best tk feat is lifting threepio, so no it's fairly obvious Dooku has better tk feats and is more likely to use it in combat.

There was never a written rule that you have to be considerably more powerful in the Force to ragdoll someone, but that doesn't mean it isnt common sense. TK struggles were introduced in the movies, and what is necessary to ragdoll someone with TK like Dooku did to Kenobi is fairly obvious and generally universal across fiction.

Even if you're right that Luke was supposed to superior to Vader in the Force(which was AT BEST implied and not shown in their duel whatsoever) Vader didn't do anything to put him above Kenobi let alone Dooku.

Thank you. Sometimes I wonder are we watching different films from everyone else?

I mean Dooku stomps. I don't understand why this is even in question.

@frozen:

Actually Lucas stated that the suited version of Vader was less capable and powerful than the pre-suited version.

That's a myth. Lucas has never stated anywhere that Anakin was > Darth Vader. He did say Vader was a fraction of what Anakin COULD have been, but he never stated Anakin was superior Vader. If the new unified canon is anything to go by----Vader himself said his connection in the Force grew after the events of Mustafar.

Not sure. Luke has better Force abilities but Dooku outclasses him in lightsaber combat.

Are we just not considering that vader is an older, stronger(in the force at least) anakin?

And honestly the remote choke by vader impressed me more than anything Kenoby or dooku did power-wise.

When did he say this? And if this is indeed true, then does that not make Luke beating Vader in ROTJ more impressive?

Unless you can point me to a specific quote from the movies that states this..no.

That's not really a power showing so much as it is range, and it's not like Vader can just choke people through the Force across the galaxy willy nilly. He needed the holoprojector to see his victim. Raw power-wise Vader didn't do anything Kenobi couldn't.

@juiceboks: How would Vader's chances fare against Mace Windu? Even less?

@frozen:

He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it in ruin, but they’d perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight.

----Excerpt from Dark Lords of the Sith

Take that for whatever you will.

I haven't read the material, so it is unwise for me to make any judgement; but I trust your extraction of the source. If Vader was indeed stronger with the force after Mustafar, I would assume he could replicate some of the force feats he had in TCW, which is canon to the movies.

Does anyone have a listing of Anakin's force-feats in TCW?

@frozen: Well that depends on how you view his encounter with Sidious. I believe it was implied even in the movie that Palpatine orchestrated the ruse so that Anakin would fall to the dark side, thus making Mace's showing against him a lot less impressive. Aside from that you have him beating Jango without much trouble, who at the same time was capable of giving Obi-Wan a good fight so he's clearly more skilled than Kenobi. I don't recall any power showings from Mace in the movies..at all. So Vader could defeat him that way I suppose. All in all I'd go with Mace though.

I'm actually thinking about this fight, and yes, in the first trilogy i have to admin there are no real great showings of raw power, yoda aside.

I think i may have overestimated vader and luke, if we go only by feats, and even if to me it's easy to assume luke should have more raw power even when considering only the movies, i guess that by feats you guys are totally right, Dooku and obi-wan are above him.

Dooku takes it.

@juiceboks: I believe Lucas said that Mace could compete with Palpatine , so Palpatine probably was being legit challenged by Mace in their duel.

Except that Mace did more than just hold his own against Sidious if we take the showing at face value. I never said Mace in the state he was in couldn't compete with Sidious, nor does Lucas' statement invalidate the notion that Palpatine faked his loss so Anakin would embrace the dark side. I believe Sidious feigned helplessness and being disarmed by Mace, that's it.

Dooku should win.

Then Sidious wouldn't try to hit Mace with force lightning, what was strong enough to stagger even Anakin. It contradicts with the idea of losing purposely, don't you think ?

Mace could fail against that powerful force lightning attack just as easily.

You guys should know better than to bring up Mace vs Sidious in irrelevant threads.

@erkan12: Anakin covered his eyes because the lightning was bright, not because it staggered him.

Get real, Erkan.

@wollfmyth209: ''Get real'' ... Funny, you need to try that.

Maybe you can explain Mace's screams when Palpatine shooting lightning to kill him and Mace was actually struggling with his lightning, since you ignore the fact that lightning was actually too powerful for Anakin.

What's your take on the battle at hand?