Distance gives Pain a huge advantage since he can ambush Zoro with summons and paths. Multiplying dog will be impossible for Zoro to put down. 2 chameleons + dogs can set up a soul rip for human path. Gedo mazo can soul rip from a far.
i was going to say chibaku tensei for the win but without it im with zoro he out stats them by a ridiculous margin and wild long shots with wide area attacks that will do a lot of damage and with full knowledge he knows the 5 seconds gap weakness pain has after that full counter(Mel rocks) technique or whatever it called i forgot its name but zoro can deal with it for sure
The only way of Pain to defeat Zoro is with soul steal or chibaku tensei and none of that going to work since Zoro has full knowledge,this is a completely stomp for Zoro,he one shot all the pains with a slash
@omriamar: In durability and physical strength yes not speed or reactions. Pain is faster and can dodge point blank attacks by MHS+ people with ease such as Sage Jiraiyas punch, Raikiri, sage narutos punches, and a FRS. Rinnegan allows Nagato to see Zoros attacks dozen+ times/angles, making him easy to counter and dodge.
Animal path can use its space/time jutsu to instantly teleport anything from harm.
He has no counter to dogs, no way to stop the chameleons from creeping up on him. The paths can hide in the chameleons then sneak attack Zoro while he’s fight 20+ dogs.
@whatamiseeing: none of the six path of pain has been consistent with his speed like zoro is and if we are to take high end feats only pre skip zoro dodge lightning speed attacks from kuma is that make him FTL? no it dosent same with them, their combat speed are not on zoro level who can blitz underwater swing his swords so fast and strong to create hurricane and many more. if he gets close he cuts them to shreds as he has full knowledge and will know what to do when to do.
the dogs and chameleons are bound with six path after zoro slice and dice the paths they will go bye bye and a sneak attack wont work zoro wild observation haki
@gear4god: Jiraiya managed it by BFRing them all into a Mountain-sized Toad's stomach. I feel like there would be a limit to how much multiplying dog can multiply though.
Presumably, if it multiplies enough, Pain would run out of chakra for sustaining the technique.
@gnomishness: I agree, but I feel that Nagato has beastly Chakra. He is an Uzumaki and was stomping Bee and Naruto. He also had enough power to revive everyone in Konoha while weak and emaciated. He should have as much Chakra as the top Bijuu.
@gnomishness: I agree, but I feel that Nagato has beastly Chakra. He is an Uzumaki and was stomping Bee and Naruto. He also had enough power to revive everyone in Konoha while weak and emaciated. He should have as much Chakra as the top Bijuu.
The top Bjuu?
Like one third of the nine tails was overwhelming him and he had to resort to his strongest technique to beat it. Perhaps the six or seven tails would be more comparable. Granted the full Kyuubi by my estimation has to be over half the power of the Juubi and is far more powerful than his siblings
That idea of sneaking up on someone with full knowledge and pre cog is so great...
any pain trying that is dead in one hit, no pain can tank a slice that used air pressure to cut a mountain creature in two, and sent the top half of it a large distance into the air...
More times then not, I see zoro ending this in 6 or less slices.
I agree, but I feel that Nagato has beastly Chakra. He is an Uzumaki and was stomping Bee and Naruto. He also had enough power to revive everyone in Konoha while weak and emaciated.
Yeah I know, but there would still be a limit. If Zoro fights for long enough to create a literal mountain of doggie corpses, or maybe a few literal mountains, that should ultimately be enough I think. Zoro, if left to his own devices against just the doggies, might be able to do that.
Like one third of the nine tails was overwhelming him and he had to resort to his strongest technique to beat it.
1/16th of the Ninetails, according to my assumptions, made him resort to his strongest technique, and that 1/16th was used very inefficiently and in anger. 1/4th of the Chakra used inefficiently was actually enough to get out of that technique, despite being trapped within it's center.
Perhaps the six or seven tails would be more comparable.
I think it's pretty clear to me that Chakra used mindless is not as effective as Chakra used mindfully, even disregarding any particular tactics, and that a good technique to use your chakra in can multiply it's effectiveness. In that case, Pain could rival the Six and Seven tails without actually being equal to them in sheer chakra, because he was more mindful then them, and because he had hyper effective Rinnegan techniques to fall back on. To me, his chakra seems vast, but only to the point of the Shukaku. Having even just as much chakra as a tailed beast logically makes you a freak of nature, based on the world's reaction to them.
Granted the full Kyuubi by my estimation has to be over half the power of the Juubi and is far more powerful than his siblings
It's true that the full Ninetails should have slightly more then half the chakra total in the tailed beasts, but the Full Juubi should be more then the sum of those parts, since it was also absorbing almost the entire world's supply of natural energy.
@kingfrieza: While hes overwhelmed trying to fight off 20+ summons, and missile barrages it is possible. He cant fight all that at one. Precog does not mean Zoro has omniscience there is no way for him to know chameleons are on stand by waiting for an opening to strike. If they are not attacking he wont know they are right beside him. Or am I missing something? Once zoro is vulnerable the paths come out.
No path has to take a hit. Nagato is pain he can do any move he wants with any body as they are him. For ex Deva could use summoning. Summoning is instant. If a path is in danger any path can teleport the other out of danger instantly. Zoro is not faster than instant.
Pain is faster with better reactions than Zoro so Zoro isnt landing any strikes. Pain could casually dodge and block attacks point blank from SM Naruto, SM Jiraiya, and Kakashi. Individuals who are as fast or faster than Zoro. If he can casually dodge these point blank attacks there is no reason he cant dodge Zoros. Jiraiya's senbons are faster than Zoro's slashes as it requires no arm movement.
@kingfrieza: While hes overwhelmed trying to fight off 20+ summons, and missile barrages it is possible. He cant fight all that at one. Precog does not mean Zoro has omniscience there is no way for him to know chameleons are on stand by waiting for an opening to strike. If they are not attacking he wont know they are right beside him. Or am I missing something? Once zoro is vulnerable the paths come out.
No path has to take a hit. Nagato is pain he can do any move he wants with any body as they are him. For ex Deva could use summoning. Summoning is instant. If a path is in danger any path can teleport the other out of danger instantly. Zoro is not faster than instant.
Pain is faster with better reactions than Zoro so Zoro isnt landing any strikes. Pain could casually dodge and block attacks point blank from SM Naruto, SM Jiraiya, and Kakashi. Individuals who are as fast or faster than Zoro. If he can casually dodge these point blank attacks there is no reason he cant dodge Zoros. Jiraiya's senbons are faster than Zoro's slashes as it requires no arm movement.
None of what said suggest he even close to Zoro's speed,you basically just said "he dodge from X character so he faster" which mean noting. By feats Pain is around Naruto's pain arc speed and Naruto's FASTEST ATTACK at that time was just barely 50+ more or less
@whatamiseeing: actually you are missing something, observation haki as well as giving you pre cog, also lets you see things you normally can’t, like a persons aura for example.
Zoro figured out where pica was in the mountain sized stone giant with observation haki...
I don’t see how fighting naruto at that point means he’s as fast or faster, pre skip one piece characters could dodge lightning from a few feet away.
@omriamar: I posted some scans, nothing there is inconsistent and Pain has more feats. Pains reaction/travel speed is only inconsistent when the plot demands it. For example human path getting hit by a FRS or asura path getting hit by naruto who was a mile away. Why would dodging kuma"s attacks make him light speed? not seeing the relation.
Those fishmen are fodder that doesnt mean much. "swing his swords so fast" no he swings his sword strong enough to create the whirlwind. To do this move he swings fairly slow actually. He cant cut anything to shreds due to teleportation and MHS+ reactions. Pain has blocked moves faster than Zoro can produce. Hair senbon requires no movement while Zoros requires him to. And casually dodged moves just as fast as Zoros
Pain dodged a point blank FRS that crossed all of Konoha in less than a second. What does Zoro have that is faster than that?
@omriamar: I posted some scans, nothing there is inconsistent and Pain has more feats. Pains reaction/travel speed is only inconsistent when the plot demands it. For example human path getting hit by a FRS or asura path getting hit by naruto who was a mile away. Why would dodging kuma"s attacks make him light speed? not seeing the relation.
Those fishmen are fodder that doesnt mean much. "swing his swords so fast" no he swings his sword strong enough to create the whirlwind. To do this move he swings fairly slow actually. He cant cut anything to shreds due to teleportation and MHS+ reactions. Pain has blocked moves faster than Zoro can produce. Hair senbon requires no movement while Zoros requires him to. And casually dodged moves just as fast as Zoros
Pain dodged a point blank FRS that crossed all of Konoha in less than a second. What does Zoro have that is faster than that?
The FRS cross the chibaku tensei center in one second... this just 30+ mach feat,that not imprissive at all and far slower than Zoro,Pain will get blitz hard
Like one third of the nine tails was overwhelming him and he had to resort to his strongest technique to beat it.
1/16th of the Ninetails, according to my assumptions, made him resort to his strongest technique, and that 1/16th was used very inefficiently and in anger. 1/4th of the Chakra used inefficiently was actually enough to get out of that technique, despite being trapped within it's center.
Perhaps the six or seven tails would be more comparable.
I think it's pretty clear to me that Chakra used mindless is not as effective as Chakra used mindfully, even disregarding any particular tactics, and that a good technique to use your chakra in can multiply it's effectiveness. In that case, Pain could rival the Six and Seven tails without actually being equal to them in sheer chakra, because he was more mindful then them, and because he had hyper effective Rinnegan techniques to fall back on. To me, his chakra seems vast, but only to the point of the Shukaku. Having even just as much chakra as a tailed beast logically makes you a freak of nature, based on the world's reaction to them.
Granted the full Kyuubi by my estimation has to be over half the power of the Juubi and is far more powerful than his siblings
It's true that the full Ninetails should have slightly more then half the chakra total in the tailed beasts, but the Full Juubi should be more then the sum of those parts, since it was also absorbing almost the entire world's supply of natural energy.
And Uzumaki are freaks of nature after all. Look at Boruto, that kid is 16th Uzumaki r something and he can still use 3-4 shadow clones with ease, despite Johnin being hard pressed to make two because of the chakra requirements. This guy was able to use implanted Rinnegan and spam the junk out of it like he was a natural user. Thats impossible unless you have freakish chakra massively above Johnin level or Kage level. Even a base Sharingan tired out Kakashi immensely and using the Mangekyo drained him at an extremely rapid rate
The six tails is two thirds of the nine tails in Naruto which was half the total Nine Tails. IDK where your getting 1/16th from
@zxc6: what feats does zoro have that makes him faster than KCM Naruto, Killer Bee, SM Jiraiya and Itachi? These guys couldnt blitz Nagato how can Zoro
Zoro has no answer to the gedo statue or a super shinra tensai. He could hardly handle the gravity from fujitora. He gets one shotted by a super shinra tensai.
@kingfrieza: Okay I didnt know Zoro was a sensor. Either way teleportation and numbers prevent him from landing anything
And kakashi could cut a lightning bolt in half with lightning blade before part 1. They all have the reactions and combat speed to deal with lightning speed
@zxc6: what feats does zoro have that makes him faster than KCM Naruto, Killer Bee, SM Jiraiya and Itachi? These guys couldnt blitz Nagato how can Zoro
Zoro has no answer to the gedo statue or a super shinra tensai. He could hardly handle the gravity from fujitora. He gets one shotted by a super shinra tensai.
What feats does KCM Naruto Killer Bee SM Jiraiya and Itachi have that make them faster than Zoro? since the only speed feat you show until now is the Rasengan Shuriken and it is completely joke to Zoro's speed,just 30+ mach
Even with higher physicals not even full knowledge Zoro can win against the versatility, multiple targets with shared eye sight, smart tactics and hax. Also its quite likely that Pein is faster than Zoro.
Even with higher physicals not even full knowledge Zoro can win against the versatility, multiple targets with shared eye sight, smart tactics and hax. Also its quite likely that Pein is faster than Zoro.
How exactly "versatility multiple targets with shared eye sight" help when Zoro can just one shot all othe Pains with one casual hundreds of meters slash like the one cut Pica
@kingfrieza:If its stated then thats the end of that. The creator said it to show kakashi can do it. Can you show me where zoro has lightning reactions or lightning speed?
clearly he cant dodge lightning. Either way he gets one shotted by a super shinra tensai. He can barely handle this level of gravity. A super shinra tensai would disintegrate him.
@zxc6: Naruto characters have been hypersonic+ since part 1. For example CS1/2 Sasuke. KNO Naruto could blitz sasuke, to blitz sasuke who has sharingan he would have to be massive hypersonic. In part 2 everyone got considerably stronger making them more hypersonic than before. Sasuke could casually blitz Naruto who is MHS+, for Sasuke to do that he would have to be much, much faster. Sasuke is slower than Itachi/killer bee by a considerable margin. Both rag-dolled Sasuke on two occasions so they are even higher on the MHS+ scale. KCM Naruto could dodge A who could blitz MS sasuke, meaning KCM is very high in the MHS+ scale since he can dodge individuals at point blank who can blitz MHS+ individuals who have precog. Then Nagato whos not even in control of his own body and an edo could easily handle KCM Naruto/KB/Itachi at the same time. Edos are dead they do not worry about life or death so their reactions are much lower than the living. We saw this with deidara, sasori, kakuzu, itachi. Therefore Pain would have better reactions than edo nagato.
Back on topic Zoro dies to Super Shinra Tensai
He has extreme difficulty with the smallest bit of gravity. He cant survive what Nagato can dish out nor can he react to it
@zxc6: Naruto characters have been hypersonic+ since part 1.
They have zero hypersonic+ feats,they all supersonic+ by scaling
to blitz sasuke who has sharingan he would have to be massive hypersonic.
No,you just made up number with no basis,nobady is MHS in part 1
In part 2 everyone got considerably stronger making them more hypersonic than before. Sasuke could casually blitz Naruto who is MHS+,
for Sasuke to do that he would have to be much, much faster. Sasuke is slower than Itachi/killer bee by a considerable margin. Both rag-dolled Sasuke on two occasions so they are even higher on the MHS+ scale
Again,they don't have and you didn't bring any MHS+ feats,Sage Mode Naruto pain arc fastest attack is just 30+ mach
. KCM Naruto could dodge A who could blitz MS sasuke,
Sasuke react to every single A attack
You didn't bring any proof for MHS+ feats,you still didn't bring proof that he even close to Zoro's speed
Back on topic Zoro dies to Super Shinra Tensai
He has extreme difficulty with the smallest bit of gravity. He cant survive what Nagato can dish out nor can he react to it
Your comparison is horrible since Fujitora's gravity heaviness is far massive above Pain's heaviness,One Piece characters's physical strength and lifting strength outclass Naruto's characters by massive amount. fodders capable of toss buildings:
East Blue Saga Sanji and Luffy can easily toss enormous monsters:
Gallery
Injured and weakened Zoro can toss a building,Sanji kick and toss enormous person hundreds of meters,and here the person size compare to 300 meter monster:
Gallery
A fodder who Base Luffy one shot can toss 10,000 tons several kilometer to the sky:
Gallery
meanwhile Naruto Sage Mode best feat is toss a huge rhino and having a trouble in base to lift a stone statue,that make him at best comparable to some East Blue Saga characters strength,in order for Fujitora to ground Zoro with his gravity this have to be enormous amount of power,Pain's gravity not even close at all to Fujitora's gravity heaviness
This thread is laughable. Anyone who has read both series would know that Zoro wins this with relative ease. The difference in physicals is astronomical. Pain is closer to pre time skip Zoro in speed. For examples watch Zoro vs Kuma, Zoro was able to dodge Kuma's massively sonic level air pressure attacks.
The pains could not dodge punches from Sage mode Naruto, let alone air slashes which they cant absorb from Zoro which would literally turn them into Sashimi.
There is nothing stopping Zoro from just using a mountain wide hypersonic AOE slash attack that would be undodgable to take out all of them at once....
Also with the exception of soul stealing, Pain literally cannot hurt Zoro.
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