Roger & Prime Garp vs 4 Admirals

Admirals extreme diff.

Roger and Garp high diff.

either garp or roger solos, together they defeated rocks d. xebec, whitebeard, kaido, big mom, shiki, captain john, silveraxe and wang zhi at the same battle, admirals get ultrastomped

it would be more fair if you included admiral greenbull who is stronger than all the other admirals combined

Bruh what ? Whitebeard didn't fight with the rocks crew at that time. Also they weren't all the height of their powers when they were under Rocks

He has had no fights

whitebeard was part of rocks pirates, they were all shown together when narrating the god valley battle, and it would be strange if whitebeard was missing from the most important battle of his crew which was the most powerful pirate crew of all time

@mismatchmatcher said:

@kgb725 said:

@mismatchmatcher said:

either garp or roger solos, together they defeated rocks d. xebec, whitebeard, kaido, big mom, shiki, captain john, silveraxe and wang zhi at the same battle, admirals get ultrastomped

it would be more fair if you included admiral greenbull who is stronger than all the other admirals combined

Bruh what ? Whitebeard didn't fight with the rocks crew at that time. Also they weren't all the height of their powers when they were under Rocks

He has had no fights

whitebeard was part of rocks pirates, they were all shown together when narrating the god valley battle, and it would be strange if whitebeard was missing from the most important battle of his crew which was the most powerful pirate crew of all time

It only makes sense that they were all weaker then while Garp and Roger were in their prime then because whitebeard alone is pretty close to Roger and Shiki should be able to take on Garp based on what happened at marineford

no single being in the verse so far can take on 2 Admirals and win, Whitebeard almost died fighting Akainu.

the difference between an Admiral like Akainu and Kaido is not much.

@raziel2014: healthy, prime Whitebeard = Old Sick, dying Whitebard is that what're you saying?

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Admirals Obliterate neg diff

Garp and Roger low/mid diff.

Admirals are on pair with old and inactive Rayleigh who in his prime was just a subordinate of Roger.

Roger and Garp win.

Roger and Garp

i see admiral downplay still going strong on CV

they fucking dogwalk the duo

my opinion = fax

ur opinion = creditless

Roger and Garp barely beats Sakazuki and Kuzan. You add Issho and Borsalino who should be below the other 2 Admirals, and they can probably assure it.

I won't say what I think until I know how really powerful Issho and Borsalino is.

PK level characters are significantly stronger than Yonkou level characters. The last chapter confirmed Rayleigh to be a Yonkou level in his prime.

And Yonkou are significantly above the admirals.

It would take at least 2 admirals to have a chance against 1 yonkou, and at least 2 yonkou to have a chance against 1 PK.

Roger and Garp together could take on 8 admirals.

Roger and Garp mid-high diff

Some weak accolades aside feat wise Admirals are at the bottom of top tier

People tend to wank them as their current standing against other top tiers make Marines as a faction look relatively weak

I imagine an Advanced CoC-coated swing of Roger's sword would be quite a bit stronger than a near-dead Gura Gura punch from an elderly Whitebeard that made Akainu bleed. Garp and Roger take it.

Garp and Roger low diff

Even Kaido could solo 4 Admirals in a very hard fight

Admiral downplay… anyway Akainu and Aokiji would already be in a discussion against Prime Garp and Roger (and the Admirals could win). Then on top of Akainu and Aokiji you add Kizaru (someone who is relative to Akainu as he is his right hand man, etc), and then add Fujitora as well… Welp to say the least Roger and Garp aren’t having a good day. Admirals win easily with minimal damages.

Those who say “but Roger and Garp defeated the Rocks Pirates” you seem to forget that while yes Rocks is strong the rest of his crew aren’t in their primes. Whitebeard was in his younger days (Whitebeard is 3 years younger than Roger), Kaido was a young apprentice with Big Mom being the only one who is truly relevant (not to say the others aren’t strong). Since Roger has his crew with Rayleigh, Scopper, etc and Garp had some marines with him it wasn’t only just Roger/Garp it was them and their teams against the Rocks Pirates who mind you are not good at working together as they were known for literally killing and fighting each other on their own ship. There’s some more I could go into but I’ll leave it at that.

Either duo solos,

Duo>>>>Kaido>>>>Near death WB>>>>Admirals

The duo

@plaguedocter: Akainu and Aokiji winning against Garp and Roger lol

@argos99: Akainu (by proxy Aokiji as well) can scale directly above both Garp and Sengoku two marines which are relative to Roger. Once more I will say this again Akainu has the hype, has the narrative behind him and he the statements as well. Akainu being above Garp and such isn’t something incredibly unrealistic as we literally have enough information to say Akainu is one of the strongest people ever.

Akainu being strong makes sense as he is Narratively an EoS opponent, Narratively made the Navy the strongest it’s ever been,

Narratively as well the New Era is set to overtake the Old Era, Narratively he’s a Fleet Admiral in the Great Pirate Era but he is doing well in a more dangerous era, then you have statements like Akainu could find the one piece in a year of serialization and Akainu has the devil fruit with one of the highest offensive powers. Then you have Blackbeard whose reaction to Shanks is casual and he said he would fight him soon but then when Blackbeard encounters Akainu he gets spooked and dipped when he had his whole crew with him. Then there is marineford where after mortally wounding and essentially killing Whitebeard a yonko Akainu went fight the marineford gauntlet. Akainu after tanking two bloodlusted quake hits he then proceed to walk through the entirity of Whitebeard’s crew (Marco, Vista, etc), Jimbei (Almost oneshot), Crocodile, Ivankov, Inazuma and more and they all only could stall Akainu. And guess what there’s still more I can go into.

@plaguedocter: Akainu is an authoritarian with good battle IQ thats why the Navy is stronger than ever it doesn't mean he's stronger than Garp or Sengoku wtf lmao

Maybe he does give Garp a hard fight, but we've seen MULTIPLE Admirals fold to Shanks Haki so nah i won't believe it until it's stated that Akainu can hang with legends in their prime

We saw a while back that Akainu was roughly on par with a sick old stroke ridden Whitebeard based on the clash and them swapping crucial blows. So Akainu is strong, but prime Whitebeard likely mid diffs him, and both prime Garp and Roger are also on that top shelf

So yeah until we get the feats, The 4 Admirals aint winning

What does that even mean? He was a part of the marines before he became a FA, so his personal strength bares no significance in that statement. He does have more authority now, so his tactics and ruthlessness could be the reason why the marines are more capable now.

Roger & Garp with mid-diff.

Admirals get wrecked. I don't know why people hold them in such high regard. They are at best Yonko Commander++ in strength given how they can square up with the Commanders but don't struggle in those fights but also didn't clean house. Not as easily as Big Mom or Kaido would've.

Meanwhile anytime a Yonko Commander went up against an Emperor they shit their pants or were helpless. For reference look up these fights:

• Queen vs Big Mom
• Marco vs Big Mom
• Marco vs Kizaru
• Akainu vs Old, terribly ill, zero haki, Whitebeard
• Akoiji vs Jozu
• Akoiji vs Marco
• Kizaru vs Rayleigh

You can clearly see in past fights the Admirals and Yonko Commanders are within each other's league. You especially see that with Marco and yet Marco himself wouldn't dare try to square up against Big Mom or Kaido. If you look at Rayleigh's battle with Kizaru and see chapter 1060; you'll see that Rayleigh lines up with the other Commanders aka he wouldn't square up against an Emperor.

Then you have Kaido and his 40 or so death sentences, that the government just couldn't do. You think that they give the admirals a shot at doing lethal damage during one of those 40 sentences. So clearly he is far beyond what the government can do; or at least is willing to do. Cause ya know the World government still has secrets and some kind of ace up their sleeve that made Kaido & BM both decide to build armies first, then take over the world.

@argos99:

1) Akainu is an authoritarian with good battle IQ thats why the Navy is stronger than ever it doesn't mean he's stronger than Garp or Sengoku

It's a Shonen do you think a leader like Akainu would be weaker when all points to him being stronger than his predecessors. He's an Eos opponent plus all the other reasons there's almost no reason for him to be as weak as you think he is. Also being in a more dangerous era and still keeping up against all of the pirates

2) Maybe he does give Garp a hard fight, but we've seen MULTIPLE Admirals fold to Shanks Haki so nah I won't believe it until it's stated that Akainu can hang with legends in their prime.

No multiple admirals haven't been folded by Shank's Haki the only person who has been affected was Greenbull yet he was only shocked and he said he'd even fight the Red hair Pirates but not now (He was in bad territory).

3) We saw a while back that Akainu was roughly on par with a sick old stroke ridden Whitebeard based on the clash and them swapping crucial blows. So Akainu is strong, but prime Whitebeard likely mid diffs him, and both prime Garp and Roger are also on that top shelf

Roughly on par... Akainu wrecked Whitebeard and he tanked his bloodlusted quakes the only thing Whitebeard did to Akainu was drop him into a ravine. The damage Akainu took didn't affect him like at all and Akainu dealt lethal blows which would've killed Whitebeard while Wb didn't even scar Akainu. Aokiji dealt more damage and had a greater impact than what Whitebeard did as Aokiji was able to scar at least Akainu.

4) So yeah until we get the feats, The 4 Admirals aint winning

Feats... Roger has no like feats, Garp has no like feats if anything Akainu has more feats and hype than half the top tiers in the verse. We don't even know if Garp has conquerors let alone advanced conqueror's while the Admirals seem to have Awakened Devil fruits as seen with Punk hazard. Akainu has a Roger level feat in being able to find the one piece in a year of serialization that means Akainu would be able to fight, defeat, and acquire each of the four poneglyphs and find the one piece in roughly 40 chapters that's insane.

@mortein:

1) Narratively made the Navy the strongest it’s ever been. What does that even mean? He was a part of the marines before he became a FA, so his personal strength bares no significance in that statement. He does have more authority now, so his tactics and ruthlessness could be the reason why the marines are more capable now.

Then again it's a shonen, Akainu is an Eos opponent, and now a fleet admiral plus many more such things. As for the "He was a part of the marines before he became a FA, so his personal strength bares no significance in that statement" the thing is while yes he was a marine before he became the Fleet Admiral but before he was a fleet admiral he also hadn't fought Aokiji for ten days so Akainu also has a precedent to be even stronger than he was in marineford. So no his personal strength is reflected by the fact he is the current fleet admiral as if he wasn't strong he would be the fleet admiral Aokiji would be. Not to mention each admiral leads by example so those under them know and follow their sense of justice so it make no sense once again for Akainu to be as weak as people think he is.

@plaguedocter: LMAO

Akainu did not wreck Whitebeard. Whitebeard had a damn stroke, was old to the point that even his OWN COMMANDER MARCO was worried about how much weaker he got, and Crocodile was saying Whitebeard got weak too. Whitebeard had barely any Haki, Whitebeards reaction time was shot, and Whitebeards speed diminished greatly

Yet even with all these weaknesses compared to his prime days, Whitebeard was still in Akainus league, and quake punched Akainu so hard that the Admiral fodder got temporarily incapacitated and couldn't move before getting buried

And in addition to that Akainu got a shot in while Whitebeart was having a heart attack, so its only fair Whitebeard got his own sneak attack in.

@kajin_style:

1) Admirals get wrecked. I don't know why people hold them in such high regard. They are at best Yonko Commander++ in strength given how they can square up with the Commanders but don't struggle in those fights but also didn't clean house. Not as easily as Big Mom or Kaido would've.

Akainu solo's all of Marineford and was never stopped only slowed by the entirity of WB's crew, etc. Greenbull no-diffed King and Queen and casually stabbed King who has one of the best durability's in one piece, Greenbull also easily dealt with a large portion of the scabbards, momo, and yamato better than even Kaido did as Kaido was hurt by the scabbards while only yamato made Greenbull go "ow nice haki." Aokiji is an equal to Akainu for the most part and has had casual continental freezing potency and permanent climate alteration. Fujitora has casual continental+ meteor spam and casual lifting feats of lifting all of Dressrosa's rumble and debris and during Dressrosa he never even went all out as all he did was keep civilians safe and stall for Luffy to take down Doflamingo . Kizaru has never shown to go all out even against Rayleigh, has shown to play with Whitebeard, is the righthand of Akainu, played with the supernova, and would've stopped Big Mom's and Kaido's meeting if it weren't for Wano's unknown military (Ryuma's legend).

Also no Admiral has struggled with a Yonko commander Marco only lives today because of his fruit's broken nature and op unique phoenix flames and regeneration without those marco woulda died from kizaru's initial laser beams. Aokiji while engaging Whitebeard in battle got hit once by Jozu and at best bloodied his lip while when Aokiji caught Juzo off-guard he oneshotted Juzo. Akainu walked through Yonko commanders, Jimbei, Crocodile, Ivankov etc. Greenbull no diffed king and queen and did better against the scabbards and yamato than Kaido did.

2) Meanwhile anytime a Yonko Commander went up against an Emperor they shit their pants or were helpless. For reference look up these fights:

• Queen vs Big Mom
• Marco vs Big Mom
• Marco vs Kizaru
• Akainu vs Old, terribly ill, zero haki, Whitebeard
• Akoiji vs Jozu
• Akoiji vs Marco
• Kizaru vs Rayleigh

Queen knocked out Big Mom, Marco was troublesome for Big Mom so she tossed him to perospero, Marco did nothing to kizaru and Kizaru almost killed Marco, Akainu mortally wounded whitebeard then got bfr'd into a ravine so that blackbeard could go and take whitebeards fruit only for akainu to reappear and solo everyone, Aokiji as I said oneshotted juzo and juzo at best bloodied his lip not a good feat for juzo to say the least, Aokiji got hit once from the side by marco it wasn't even a fight., Kizaru never went all out while Rayleigh was tiring and sweating just trying to keep up with the slacker kizaru. This is not to say Yonko are weak if anything this is just me saying there is a large gap between commanders and top tiers.

3) You can clearly see in past fights the Admirals and Yonko Commanders are within each other's league. You especially see that with Marco and yet Marco himself wouldn't dare try to square up against Big Mom or Kaido. If you look at Rayleigh's battle with Kizaru and see chapter 1060; you'll see that Rayleigh lines up with the other Commanders aka he wouldn't square up against an Emperor.

I'll say this again Marco only lives because of his fruit as if he didn't have it he would've died like the same chapter he was introduced. Then again many forget the Marineford "War" was a RESCUE mission all of Whitebeard's crew was there to stall so they could get Ace and in fact just as Doflamingo said the winners shape history and guess who won... it was the Navy in a landslide.

4) Then you have Kaido and his 40 or so death sentences, that the government just couldn't do. You think that they give the admirals a shot at doing lethal damage during one of those 40 sentences. So clearly he is far beyond what the government can do; or at least is willing to do. Cause ya know the World government still has secrets and some kind of ace up their sleeve that made Kaido & BM both decide to build armies first, then take over the world.

Kaido was captured when he was like really young like before he joined Rocks as an apprentice so why would they send an admiral after someone like that? Sure he was a nuisance, durable, and has destroyed some prison ships but there were bigger threats then a powerful rookie like literally every other pirate in the Godvalley incident (Think about Luffy the superrookie the only time an admiral was sent after him was when he hit a celestial dragon one of the greatest crimes ever). And as far as we know the WG holds many secrets as you say and are a powerful organization where even yonko's second guess going up against them.

A little repetitive and rambly but I think you get the point.

@bakedgb:

1) Akainu did not wreck Whitebeard. Whitebeard had a damn stroke, was old to the point that even his OWN COMMANDER MARCO was worried about how much weaker he got, and Crocodile was saying Whitebeard got weak too. Whitebeard had barely any Haki, Whitebeards reaction time was shot, and Whitebeards speed diminished greatly

Yeah he was weaker never said he wasn't but he still was a yonko who could clashed with shanks splitting the sky in the process while many think he was the weakest yonko at the time he still was a yonko.

2) Yet even with all these weaknesses compared to his prime days, Whitebeard was still in Akainus league, and quake punched Akainu so hard that the Admiral fodder got temporarily incapacitated and couldn't move before getting buried. And in addition to that Akainu got a shot in while Whitebeart was having a heart attack, so its only fair Whitebeard got his own sneak attack in.

Whitebeard was not in Akainu's league let alone any admirals league (Kizaru literally played with him) as evident by their exchange one got half their face blown off and Akainu bled a bit, got no scar and was quite fine so fine in fact he could walk through all of Whitebeard's crew (Marco, Vista, etc), Jimbei (Almoast one shot him), Crocodile (Croc was uneffective), Ivankov (walked through), etc only being slowed a bit.

Bruh Akainu was never incapacitated it literally never happened in the manga the anime changed it (they changed quite a few things in Marineford to make pirates look better) as we literally known that after Akainu got BFR'd into a ravine he went and circled around the pirates underground and erupted out to attack Jimbei/Luffy...

The admirals wank is strong in this one.

@nicov: Haha at least add to the discussion instead of just calling me names it really doesn't help your case.

And not tagging me eh it's whatever not that I care but I'll say this if you wanna say something like call me wrong, give me your thoughts, or whatever I'd like to hear it (honestly) though it might be hard to change my mind but as I said I'll listen. I want a discussion with people that's why I made an account in the first place.

Either way the reason my position is so adamant is because people actually think Roger and Garp are low diffing all four admirals which is preposterous to say the least. Now if that were the case the WG and Navy wouldn't even exist if someone like Roger and his peers could defeat two admirals at once with ease like some people think (In fact I saw some people saying that Kaido could solo all 4 of the admirals).

@plaguedocter:

Why did you make me read all that Doc... Just say you like Admirals, no one is gonna judge you. Admiral wank is normal in this place. Fortunately for the poll we can see that the people who know how to understand the series correctly are still the majority xd

These posts get too big when responding to you so I'll try to keep it short:

• Akainu bleeding and battered body does not prove he solo Marineford
• Greenbull has better powers than Queen & King.
• Better powers is why the Admirals on top of Yonko Commanders
• Akoiji took damage from Jozu and Marco. This wouldn't have happened if it was BM or Kaido.
• Remember Queen injured a Big Mom not using Haki. Then proceeded to knocked the amnesia out of her with his attack and proceeded shit his pants the moment Big Mom flare up her Haki.
• Navy didn't win, they ended the war and call themselves the winner. If They kept fighting Shanks would've ended the war.
• Kaido being captured before his prime and being unkillable proves how powerful he was and how much more powerful he is now. Hence why the admirals are nothing to him.

@kajin_style:

1) These posts get too big when responding to you so I'll try to keep it short:

Haha thanks it makes my job easier as I can't seem to make a short post so having this makes things faster!

2) Akainu bleeding and battered body does not prove he solo Marineford

Bloody sure but battered no he wasn't slowed by Whitebeards quakes he was only delayed (Ravine) as for the damage it was minimal in fact Akainu got more damage from Aokiji in their dual than he did from Whitebeard in the war.

3) Greenbull has better powers than Queen & King.

Sure better powers by having a plant type logia but that doesn't mean that Greenbull is automattically better than King/Queen. Greenbull was better than the two because he with some no named haki vines were able to pierce King and Queen with ease.

4) Better powers is why the Admirals on top of Yonko Commanders

Top yonko commanders don't solo whole yonko crews like the admirals do casually even with the supposed "better powers." So it makes no sense for there to be some type of Yonko commander++ tier which many think the admirals are at. In fact I hear people saying that the admirals are stronger than Law and Kid individually but those exact same people still say that two admirals can't defeat a yonko... it makes no sense. As for better powers being a lunarian is better power than most devil fruits as it makes you incredible strong, resilient and it gives you an op flame cloak and fire control (King also had an ancient zoan as well).

5) Akoiji took damage from Jozu and Marco. This wouldn't have happened if it was BM or Kaido.

Both the times Aokiji got hit he was off guard as against jozu Aokiji was engaged in a fight against Whitebeard, and against Marco Aokiji was try to kill Luffy and for the two hits Aokiji got the he sustained was a bit lip and nothing from Marco. Also Marco was shown to knock around King who has Kaido level durability (Marco didn't really damage the two but he was able to do some stuff). And as for the comparison of the base physicals of the admirals to the yonko I do sure hope so that for the most part Kaido and Big Mom do have better durability as Kaido is a mythical zoan dragon oni, and big mom is a monstrous grandma while the admirals are just larger humans but then again as Akainu has shown they do have amazing durability.

You say it wouldn't have happened to Kaido or Big Mom but Big Mom got hurt by Queen, and tussled by the straw hats and more. Then for Kaido he got hurt by the Scabbards who for the most part are as strong as Jack and Perospero individually (weaker than Queen/King). In fact Kaido and Big Mom got hurt alot more by their weaker opponents than the admirals ever did from theirs.

6) Remember Queen injured a Big Mom not using Haki. Then proceeded to knocked the amnesia out of her with his attack and proceeded shit his pants the moment Big Mom flare up her Haki.

Queen wasn't the only one who hurt Big Mom many of the straw hats as I said tussled with her and were able to knock her away and such.

7) Navy didn't win, they ended the war and call themselves the winner. If They kept fighting Shanks would've ended the war.

Nah Shanks would have a hard time to even have a chance to end the war as I don't see Shanks walking away unscathed from a battlefield with an uninjured admiral, a barely touched admiral, an slightly hurt admiral, a untouched fleet admiral, a barely touched hero of the navy, and a bunch of people like Tsuru, Momonga, etc along with quite a few warlords and an army of pacifistas. As such I honestly don't see shanks winning or killing any top tiers the best he could do would be knocking out a bunch of fodder and defeating some vice admirals and giants. The only reason the war ended was because of Sengoku and partly due to Coby's interference as if they didn't the admirals would've continued the slaughter.

8) Kaido being captured before his prime and being unkillable proves how powerful he was and how much more powerful he is now. Hence why the admirals are nothing to him.

That just shows that Oni's have great durability and that he probably had armament haki nothing more nothing less (His Oni DNA is probably why he was in Punk hazard that one time). And like I said why would an admiral go after Kaido as Kaido didn't do some incredibly great crime (hit a celestial dragon) and it's not like Kaido was the only pirate around as there were many pirates stronger than Kaido in the older era.

In fact we don't even know all the past admirals of the old era as we only know Kong (Fleet), Sengoku (Admiral), then two others of which are unknown then Garp the hero (Well that's at least who I think were the older generation).

Admirals are getting trashed here

@nicov said:

Well the thing is you may just say "you like admirals" but that's just not it I actually believe that they are superior than what most would put them at as it isn't just some bias against yonko or some incredible agenda. It's based off what we have been shown in the manga which leads me to think as such.

As for the poll it proves nothing except from my perspective that many of the readers of One Piece aren't reading the same things I am, aren't looking at the portrayal, or just that they have a implicit bias against the navy/world government. After all it doesn't help that polls a lot of the time are just a popularity contest between two or more groups so when a lot of people think Roger is the strongest in the verse and that many people think that the admirals are pushovers it leads to a point where you have this poll where to people solo low diff four admirals... it's ridiculous to me.

At this point, I am just gonna concede to the other points as the evidence in the manga is too little and the speculation too big to swing it one way or another. Until we see what an all outfight done by 1 admiral looks like we'll never truly be able to gauge their power.

However for the two points remaining:

4) Yonko crews don't fight. They also don't have logia powers as you may noticed -- like not one across the past Yonko crews and the current ones had logia powers EXCEPT... Ace, and well his power was a bad match up against Akainu. Liquid earth (magma) can easily snuff out flames. So powers IS a factor. We also saw that with Big Mom vs Kidd & Law.

7) Film Red does give us a glimpse far enough to know that Shanks and his crew are very powerful haki uses. To the point it made Kizaru back off and Fujitora recommend retreat. That alone says plenty.

@kajin_style:

4) Yonko crews don't fight. They also don't have logia powers as you may noticed -- like not one across the past Yonko crews and the current ones had logia powers EXCEPT... Ace, and well his power was a bad match up against Akainu. Liquid earth (magma) can easily snuff out flames. So powers IS a factor. We also saw that with Big Mom vs Kidd & Law.

What do you mean “Yonko crews don’t fight” as that one part is peculiar to me since… they do fight…

Anyways about the powers Kaido is themed around zoans/beasts so it makes sense he doesn’t have logia fruits. But Big Mom has her homies of Zeus, Hera, Prometheus, and Hera who are all just better versions of logias essentially. Additionally, Big Mom also has Katakuri who has a special paramecia or otherwise known as an non natural logia as the Mochi Mochi no mi acts like a Logia except that it is Mochi a non natural element. Then Shanks is a Haki crew from what we know and non of them (as we know it) have a devil fruit so it makes sense for no Logias. Then Whitebeard’s crew has Ace a logia.

Lastly I never said powers weren’t a factor it’s just that powers aren’t the end all be all. Haki and Martial arts for the most part can bridge that gap especially if your a Lunarian, a Giant, a Fishman, or even a Mink or some other very strong species. Just imagine if a Lunarian learned all of Rokushiki and Seimei Kikan even without Haki they would be an incredible beast capable of defeating some of the strongest out there.

7) Film Red does give us a glimpse far enough to know that Shanks and his crew are very powerful haki uses. To the point it made Kizaru back off and Fujitora recommend retreat. That alone says plenty.

Eh… it’s non canon and it’s not like we see them going all out as after all it’s a movie. Also Shanks seems to have something on the World Government in the same way Doflamingo did so who knows there are many reasons things could be the way they are. Either way there are just too many variables to keep account of not like it matters though as Flim Red was non canon.

Though then again the Red Hair Pirates are a crew who is all high quality to who would want to face a bunch of high tiers all at once when you can just make a safe bet.

Roger and Garp low diff, mid diff at worst.. Rocks crew that consist of Young WB, Kaido, BM, Shiki, Shakky, Captain John, Silver Axe, Stussy Buckingham and others >>>>>These Admirals

duo takes this mid diff at best one of the duo can high diff 3 admirals depending on who it is.

Roger and Garp

I wonder if the opinions have shifted one way or the other after recent chapters?