Pre Time skip Lucci vs Armstrong. Who wins and why?
@theonlytruth: Thats the reason for sure.
Also Lucci curbstomps. Even Pre timeskip he was massively sonic. Stronger then Gear 2 Luffy. and his Rokuogan bypasses most form of durability and directly targets the internal organs similar to a reject dial. Like it was strong enough to put luffy down pre PIS.
Post timeskip he is still featless, but by scaling he is near admiral level. So it becomes a god stomp
@hey_thatsmildlyadequate: Even aside from the multiple lightning timing feats of Luffy and Kallifa against Eneru and Nami (natural lightning users)to scale off of, Sanji and Zoro were very easily causing spontaneous combustion through air friction, which requires speed exceeding Mach 25, with casual movements. Lucci was faster than them without using his Devil Fruit.
@hittheassasin: Can I see the scan of Luffy "reacting" to lightning, because from what I remember that whole fight was just Luffy taking hits because he couldn't dodge and they didn't hurt him. Also being fte to a lightning timer doesn't mean that they're faster than lightning. This logic would put characters like Constantine Drakon at mfts speeds since he's fte to bullet timers like Green Arrows
@flashingsabre: The Kalifa thing is a definite outlier. I know Sanji can kick fast enough pre ts to ignite his legs but I don't recall this from Zoro. (If I can see scans it would be much appreciated to clear this up) but this just means he kicks faster than Luffy or Lucci can physically move since there's no way Luffy pre gears is breaking any sound barriers bar some big outliers
@hey_thatsmildlyadequate: Zoro's Flying Dragon Slash technique involves his sword lighting on fire due to air friction, and then burning the target. He used it to kill Ryuma.
BoS Luffy was casually FTE to peak humans and higher. He increases his speed several times over before even getting his Gears. You can't seriously argue he wasn't supersonic before Ennies Lobby.
@flashingsabre: Huh I don't really remember the Ryuma thing, I guess just wasn't paying attention(but it was thriller bark so meh)
For luffy, yeah even beginning of series he was casually dodging bullets while laughing and he's definitely demonstrated subsonic speeds, but I just can't recall a time pre gears he showed fts movement speed
@back_stabbath95: I'm not talking about the bullet timing aspects, they've been casual bullet timers since the beginning, even Usopp has the reflexes to shoot bullets out of the air. I'm talking about people who think Luffy pre enies lobby is in the triple digit machs and things like that
Armstrong takes it. He destroyed metal gear that can no sell city multi block level attacks and is made to tank Nukes, and Senator destroyed it with just a shockwave, Armstrong can even punch ground so hard that lava comes from thousands of miles underneath, to the surface in few seconds, the only thing that Lucci has on him is speed but Senator is too durable.
@eredin12: When Luffy used gear 2 back when he fought Lucci, he produced sonic booms after some of his punches. Rob was able to dodge Luffy’s gear 2 attacks on more than one occasion.
Jet stream Sam was able to cut off Armstrong’s arm using the detonation in his scabbard to accelerate his slice. The shockwave from an explosion can move around the speed of sound.
Rob Lucci could in theory, blitz Armstrong before his nanomachines could protect him. I don’t know how durable he is outside of the nanomachine hardening but This is the only possible way.
@enemybird: Shockwave from the explosion is much faster than sound actually, in fact, shockwave is by definition faster than sound:
"In physics, a shock wave (also spelled shockwave), or shock, is a type of propagating disturbance that moves faster than the local speed of sound in the medium. ... When a shock wave passes through matter, energy is preserved but entropy increases."
And for Armstrong, even without that armament Haki like hardening, he was durable enough to tank hits from Raiden pretty easily and Raiden is nearly as strong as him.
@eredin12: at the end of the day we don’t know the exact specs on the weapon. I tried looking it up on the mgs wiki but I didn’t get anything helpful. The shockwave comparison I mentioned is just a lazy estimation on my part. If you look at his fight with Raiden, the sword actually seems to eject about as fast as Raiden is moving toward him. Raiden sure as hell isn’t supersonic in the cutscenes. The sword only truly accelerates when Sam grabs the weapon so honestly, who knows how fast that strike truly was.
@enemybird: Raiden in cutscenes, in much weaker body blitzed Mechs so fast that hypersonic super-soldier like Solid Snake, who can easily perceive/ dodge Mach 20 rail gun at close range while suffering a hard seizure and react to lightning , could not even see him
He was holding back there, not to harm George accidentally, given how powerful HF Blade is, and the side effects it has, something he did not do with Armstrong/Sam
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