Rip Hunter VS Green Arrow (CW Versions)

Rip Hunter (CW)

Green Arrow

Rounds

1. Hand to hand
2. Both have standard gear

Rules

• In character
• No prep
• Win by any means

Location

• Begin visible
• Begin 100 feet apart
• Fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

I'd give both to GA, Rip lacks feats.

People are gonna say that Rip bested Savage in h2h. That was before he became an immortal and learned all the tricks up the world's sleeves.

Rip beat him again later in the episode though, during there fight in 1975.

Probably Oliver

@jashro44: It was actually in the 80's, the team left the 70s to the 80s.

Actually the team left the 80's at the end of the episode. IIRC they couldn't leave the 70's because Kendra wouldn't have survived the time jump due to her injuries.

Rip doesn't have the feats. The Savage he fought wasn't the Savage Ollie fought.

@jashro44: Oh right...yeah, recall that now.

Still, the Savage Ollie fought had 4 decades more experience.

How so? As I said in another thread unless Vandal has gone through intense training from 1975 to the point where he fought Oliver there shouldn't be a difference. And I find that unlikely considering Vandal is always talking about how he trained or was trained by all these historical figures. I can understand saying Oliver wins especially since Rip lacks showings but I think people need to accept he beat Vandal Savage. Now it could be that Vandal has started jobbing but he did kill Carter in the previous episode so I think the feat is still pretty impressive.

@supremegeneration: Should fourty years really make much of difference given how old he already was? And he still killed Hawkman, who had the upperhand against Oliver, if I recall correctly

Do you think that makes a huge difference though? I'm not saying its impossible but Vandal still had 4000 years of experience and most of his training comes through ancient times training with guys like houdini, Robin Locksly, I think he mentioned Robin Hood (I know he wasn't a real person but I recall Savage mentioning him), and other various figures.

@jashro44: I think we have to still wait, although I get your point. If Rip keeps moving up and keeps proving himself, then we can gauge him a little bit better IMO.

That's fair. Admittedly Rip's lack of showings makes things tricky. But I thought him beating Vandal in hand to hand was impressive and he did show good enough accuracy to shoot a knife out of his hand. I mostly just made this fight to see if people are viewing Rip's fight with Vandal as a good showing for him or a low showing for Savage.

EDIT: I also want to go on record I'm not saying he wins here, I'm mostly just saying he did legitimately beat Savage.

To both of you

I want you to look at this one point of why I think he had some point of more training over those 4 decades:

The knives. IIRC he hasn't used them at all in LoT. In Arrow/Flash those were his main weapons before the Staff of Horus.

Round 1: Judging by Rips single showing of hand-to-hand combat in comparision with Oliver fighting the same opponent. He pretty much stomps.(Now my personal opinion is later episodes will heavily imply Rip is a worse hand-to-hand combatant than Sara and Savage will be an highly inconsistent opponent that will be solod by multiple different members of the team throughout the show.)

Round 2: Oliver. Rip shot a knife out of the hands of a guy at comparatively low distance, thats cute. He outright missed Chronos and was pinned down by Chronos gun fire behind cover. He didn't demonstrate particularly good abilties at defending against being shot at or hitting people. The one good thing he did had been replicated by Oliver with a kitchen knife not made to be thrown as a weapon.

@supremegeneration: He had his knives in legends of tomorrow. The knives were collection from hundreds/thousands of years not just a few decades, IIRC that was stated in legends of today. Regardless Rip actually shot a knife out of Savages hand.

EDIT: Also Savage stated in episode 2 he has had 4000 years of training in every pressure point and hold (at least I think he said hold its kind of hard to understand him honestly) imaginable. So honestly I don't see what kind of training he could have gotten in a few decades that he didn't get in 4000 years....

Wasn't that because both times he tried they were immediately knocked out of his hand.

Rip has one showing, a totally legit showing, but just the one. I haven't seen enough from him yet.

Well he killed Carter by using the surprise element and by overpowering, I wouldn't say that's really impressive. What's interesting is that Ancient Savage beat Prince Khufu in an easy fight, this is impressive because it was said that Khufu was one of the best the warriors on the Kingdom. So even Ancient Savage was pretty badass. Rip showing against Savage is really good and it shows that he is skilled in H2H combat, We will have to see in the next episodes if this feat is an outlier.

@black_arrow: Fair enough.

Too soon? Maybe by episode 8 in LoT Rip will have enough showings/feats so that we can have an idea of where he stands. As of right now he's just a badass normal that beat Savage in h2h once.

Rip wins h2h as he was shown to have skill in besting savage. Those scenes werent a low showing for savage they were a high showing for rip. Vandal underestimated him and wasnt prepared for the encounter like he was for ollie. Ollie will make him work for it but rip can win after a good fight.

With gear though ollie wins hands down.

I don't know why people are throwing around the terms "high and low end showing/feat" when Rip has two feats in close quarters. Rip beating Savage isn't a high end feat for him, and Vandal losing isn't a low end feat for Vandal.

Oliver both rounds

@jashro44:

I see where you're coming from but Vandal's first appearances had him destroying the whole Arrow crew. Rip has nothing to suggest he could do that.

Carter doesn't really have any feats either. I'd back Ollie against both of them.

Well to be fair the arrow team kind of took turns attacking him. And Oliver did alright against Savage in the fight where Savage destroyed the city. Also why does Rip need more showings than beating Savage to suggest he is capable of fighting him?

@jashro44: Do know why The Flash was standing there while everyone was fighting Vandal? It didn't make sense to me at all

I think he was waiting for an opening to grab the staff.

@jashro44: When Vandal Savage first fought them in the pentahouse and Vandal threw a knife Barry caught, stood in the background for the like the rest of the fight.

How do you figure he doesn't? Ollie has 4 seasons of good feats. Rip has one showing.

@pokeysteve: He doesn't need more feats to show he can contend with Vandal if one of the two feats he has is actually contending with Vandal.

I meant why does Rip need more feats to suggest he can fight Savage? Its as Stormdriven said. All though in regards to this its not about quantity its about the quality of the showings.

Idk, Rip just being ridiculously good was kind of weird. Whats he need Sara for if he's better? And if he is better then Sara why did she handle 99% of the goons they fought?

Well Sara does know things, like the markings of Savage's men and how they were trained mercenaries, I'm guessing her main use is stealth (she managed to sneak up on Rip in the same episode). So she does have her uses. Also she only beat 2-4 whereas Rip defeated 2 guys, and its not like Rip really struggled with anyone. So while she did beat more guys than him I don't think it shows she is better than Rip.

CW clowned Savage by letting Rip beat him(twice) in the same episode. Savage should be able to take on the team in terms of H2H. Having one of the non-powered solo him takes away Savage's intimidation factor.

R1: This might actually be close due to Ollie falling off a bit caused by his change in moral perspective.

R2: Ollie handily.

@nickzambuto Have you seen Legends of Tomorrow? If so what did you think of Rip Hunter beating Vandal Savage?

Rip has a British accent. He one-shots.

@the_kidd: Savage was lacking his speed feats as shown in the crossover episode, so I don't think that counts.

It was bull. He should have been a complete blur to Rip Hunter. Savage in his first appearance was a low level magical speedster with super strength and a number of other unnamed mystical powers. The one we saw in the last Legends of Tomorrow episode was a joke.

So between this episode set in 1975 and the crossover in present time Savage somehow gets faster?

@the_kidd: Yes. They haven't explained what happened, but he was most definitely NOT moving as fast as he was in the first crossover. It's either PIS or he was missing some magic artifact.

The only magic artifact Savage used in the crossover was the Staff and he didnt even have it for his fights with the Sailors/Police and the first encounter with Arrow/Flash.

@jashro44: I'm a little behind. I still need to watch this week's episodes of all three shows (Flash, Arrow and Legends). I'll get back to you on this once I do (although off the top of my head it definitely seems weird for Rip Hunter to be capable of defeating Vandal Savage by himself. I'll need to see exactly what happened)

@nickzambuto: Sorry for the spoilers.....I tried to prevent it. If its worth anything the fights between Savage and Rip were pretty lack luster IMO. Sara's fight in the episode was pretty badass though.

He needs more feats to show he can contend with Ollie. Savage isn't in this fight.

It is about quality and the Savage that Rip fought was not the same Savage in the crossovers. Crossover Savage had incredible speed and displayed skill and strength that we haven't seen much on the show. No one was able to take him 1v1 for very long. He was only a piece of what he was on Arrow and Flash.

To those saying it's weird that Rip did what he did, why is that so? He's a Time Master right? Who's to say he didn't time jump all over and picked up fighting abilities?

Wondering why tf Rip didn't just bring a gun and shoot Savage in his first life.

I'm guessing they wanted to make Rip look badass.