Reverse-Flash (CW) vs. The Avengers (MCU)

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#1 Edited by Mutant1230 (7085 posts) - - Show Bio

The Reverse-Flash from the CW Arrowverse vs. The Avengers from the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

The Avengers:

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  • Consists of everyone in photo, also including Vision (Latest equipment, powers and feats for all)
  • They get two weeks of prep-time.
  • Cannot get any outside help from S.H.I.E.L.D., Spider-Man, The Defenders, etc.
  • Morals On.

Reverse-Flash:

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  • Latest and most powerful version of the character chronologically, the one Flash fought in Fast Enough.
  • No prep time.
  • Cannot get outside help from S.T.A.R. Labs or any allies he might have.
  • Morals On (With his ruthless personality though, he's essentially bloodlusted).

Location:

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New York city, downtown. They can the landscape, cars, buildings, etc to their advantage.

Who wins this fight? I personally think The Avengers take it. But Thawne could probably take down a few of them and put up a decent fight.

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#2 Posted by deactivated-5cfefdb3f097d (3679 posts) - - Show Bio

Ehh

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#3 Posted by AdamAmeen (988 posts) - - Show Bio

Avengers stomp

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#4 Posted by Green_Tea (10716 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve, Natasha, and Clint become smears on the road, the rest win with little difficulty

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#5 Posted by Mutant1230 (7085 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamameen: I think Reverse-Flash could definitely give Black Widow and Captain America a hard time. He would have trouble with Thor, Hulk, and Vision though. But who knows, considering how many people here adore Speedsters, I wouldn't be surprised if someone argued he could stomp them. :P

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#6 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not think the Avengers can tag reverse flash, and he can phase out their organs. Also, I do not think the Avengers have good prep feats. But, I think it would only take one good hit to knock him out. So, it could go either way depending on how phasing works.

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#7 Posted by Mutant1230 (7085 posts) - - Show Bio

@helloman: I was thinking the same thing, but a lot of The Avengers probably cannot be phased that easily.

Captain America, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, and Hawkeye could. But Iron Man has his armor, Thor and Hulk have their own incredible durability, and Vision I believe is made of Vibranium (which by definition can resist Vibrations).

That doesn't mean they would be able to actually tag Thawne though. But Quicksilver might be able to, assuming they have prep time and might be able to build himself up to his speed. At worst he would be slower then him, but could probably still somewhat keep up, just like Season 1 Flash did.

It's a very complicated fight actually.

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#8 Posted by Lord-Parallax (4503 posts) - - Show Bio

Hand through Skull GG

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#9 Posted by GeorgeWBush (12637 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on if he can phase through Thor or Hulk for total victory

Other than that Eobard cracks some skulls with the Street levels and Tony.

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#10 Posted by mrmonster (17114 posts) - - Show Bio

The Avengers. There's no way he could get past Hulk, Thor, or Vision. A lot of the non powered Avengers like Black Widow and Hawkeye die just like those cops he killed, but overall he loses. If it truly came to it, Scarlet Witch could just make him hallucinate and leave him a sitting duck.

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#11 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (18799 posts) - - Show Bio

Only Thor and Hulk survive.

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#12 Posted by DeathHero61 (18876 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on if he can phase through Thor or Hulk for total victory

Other than that Eobard cracks some skulls with the Street levels and Tony.

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#13 Edited by TheKinfing (11906 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on if he can phase through Thor or Hulk for total victory

Other than that Eobard cracks some skulls with the Street levels and Tony.

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#14 Posted by nfactor1995 (13466 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know what they'd do with the prep time exactly. Nothing Cap, Widow, and Hawkeye could do in this fight really. SW could potentially shield herself indefinitely from him and MAYBE do some sort of TK to him (AoE blast maybe?). Thawne can't hurt Vision or Hulk, possibly not Thor either, but unsure about Thor. Thor could honestly end the fight right from the start by doing one of his hits into the ground that wrecks everything in the surrounding 1000 meters (like on Jotenheim); but that'd be out of character especially because all of his buddies are right next to him.

Bottom line is Avengers win.

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#15 Posted by APEX_pretador (21481 posts) - - Show Bio

Did RF get some recent upgrade? I mean, he was quite a bit slower than MCU QS initially.

Did he appear in season 3 and get some new feats?

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#16 Posted by captain_batman_FTW (8905 posts) - - Show Bio
@georgewbush said:

Depends on if he can phase through Thor or Hulk for total victory

Other than that Eobard cracks some skulls with the Street levels and Tony.

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#17 Posted by Stahlflamme (5879 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor hits Caps shield the shockwave knocks RF done Hulk lokis him. Given Reverse Flash performances I've seen he is also constantly gonna stop giving people ample time to hit him.

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#18 Posted by Vertigo- (17926 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like this has been done before

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#19 Posted by depinhom (13506 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by Mutant1230 (7085 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackestnight93: There's only one other time it's been done, and people had a way different reaction to it.

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#21 Edited by TheWhiteCrown (237 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Cap, Widow, and Hawkeye go down easy.

2. The general consensus is that both Thawne and Barry were much faster than MCU quicksilver. But Barry jobbers a lot, Thawne doesn't. Thawne also has no reason to hold back on Pietro like he did with Barry.

3. He's faster than Thor and his INP could probably harm the hulk. That being said, this irrelevant because he probably could easily liquefy their hearts and brains (denser skin and healing factor would be irrelevant here).

4. SW, Vision, and Iron Man are only threats. He could easily outpace SW and Iron Man, but the former is a wild card and the latter is also a genius. Two weeks prep with Tony but none for Thawne is a huge advantage. But we don't know the full extent of MCU Tony's genius. Thawne can process information very quickly and can implement brilliant strategies at the drop of a dime, so Tony may be outmatched.

5. Vision is too unknowable.

6. No allies means no Gideon correct?

7. Either way, what's to stop him from Time Traveling, learning about them, and then coming up with a way to defeat them - which is a key point of his character?

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#22 Posted by APEX_pretador (21481 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Edited by PeterParkerJr (6767 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like this has been done before

It has, but the Avengers didn't have prep in that one.

As for the battle, Thawne stomps.

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#24 Edited by TheWhiteCrown (237 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: Not yet, but honestly he doesn't need them. Unless you count successfully time traveling multiple times w/o alerting the Time Wraiths.

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#25 Posted by APEX_pretador (21481 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by linsanel_Doctor (8707 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by TheWhiteCrown (237 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: The "MCU Quicksilver vs Flash", "MCU Quicksilver vs DOFP QUICKSILVER, vs Flash", and "MCU Quicksilver vs Reverse Flash" threads would strongly disagree. The guy is barely supersonic.

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#28 Posted by APEX_pretador (21481 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: The "MCU Quicksilver vs Flash", "MCU Quicksilver vs DOFP QUICKSILVER, vs Flash", and "MCU Quicksilver vs Reverse Flash" threads would strongly disagree. The guy is barely supersonic.

MCU Quicksilver > CW Flash > RF

FOX Quicksilver >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of them combined x10

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#29 Edited by TheWhiteCrown (237 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: How? MCU quicksilver is slower than season one Flash, who is himself significantly slower than Thawne at his fastest (known) speed.

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#30 Posted by APEX_pretador (21481 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: How? MCU quicksilver is slower than early season one Flash, who is himself significantly slower than Thawne at his fastest (known) speed.

Season 1 flash was barely supersonic.

Even season 2 flash could only reach mach 2 before his big upgrade.

Mach 1 bullets were barely moving for quicksilver, and he by far outpaced mach 3 bullets to save hawkeye.

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#31 Edited by TheWhiteCrown (237 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador:

1. Barry's limit in season 1 was Mach 2.

2. Barry's limit in season 2, before tachyon upgrade was Mach 3.3

3. In season 2, Barry was chased after a younger, more inexperienced, and definitely slower Reverse Flash. But Thawne was still able to outpace him. Barry only caught Thawne by outmaneuvering him (took a shortcut). Again before his tachyon Upgrade. We know for a fact that Thawne and Barry (an alternate version of him anyways) do eventually get much faster.

4. Quicksilver BARELY managed to make it in time. Though I admit I did overlook and downplay his actual speed.

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#32 Posted by g2_ (12789 posts) - - Show Bio

Only Thor and Hulk survive.

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#33 Posted by theawesomeflashsandiego32 (2152 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk survives along with vision

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#34 Edited by APEX_pretador (21481 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewhitecrown: But remember that quicksilver had to run a lot more distance than bullets had to, and also slow down before picking up Hawkeye so that he doesn't just "smash through" him ultron bot style.

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#35 Posted by captain_batman_FTW (8905 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Posted by Mutant1230 (7085 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewhitecrown: Time-travel won't help here. He has no prep time, he doesn't know their identities, where they lived, etc.

And you make a lot of bold claims but back none of them up with anything of relevance. How could he hurt Hulk? What proof is there that he's faster then Thor? Faster then his lightning? How does one even dodge lightning? Pretty sure Vision and the Mind Stone do have Multiple feats in The Avengers, Avengers: Age of Ultron, and Civil War. We also know how Vibranium works, and vibrations can't go through it, that's the crux of your entire argument.

Prep-time Scarlet Witch could probably mess with his mind before the battle in someway. And I think you're overestimating Thawne and his ability to process information, he's made a lot of dumb and reckless decisions throughout the series, Tony is not above this himself, but most were done out of arrogance as opposed to ignorance, which is more then can be said about Thawne.

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#37 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve, Natasha, and Clint become smears on the road, the rest win with little difficulty

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#38 Posted by AvatarReiko (1349 posts) - - Show Bio

I just like to point out that the RF cannot phase through people when he is running at superspeed. Every time he used it, he had to stop completely before phasing through his victims' chests

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#39 Posted by ConnorDorian (1320 posts) - - Show Bio

2 weeks prep Tony or Vision may solo.

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#40 Edited by TheWhiteCrown (237 posts) - - Show Bio

@mutant1230:

1. Exactly how does SW even get to use her powers on him? This has been an issue that I've had with MCU Scarlet Witch. I always see people going on and on about her mindraping people. But, from what I've seen, her mental manipulations are proximity based, as she needed to be next to the target. What's more, if one is fast enough they can react in time to avoid her.

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2. I'm sorry I had no idea that MCU Thor had feets of supersonic reactions times. Obviously he could keep with Thawne. As for dodging lightning....

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I'd just like to point out that Barry at this point in time is much (much) slower than Thawne. And Thor's lighting is not much faster that regular lightning.

3. Thawne is far more experienced with his powers and can phase through and organic matter solid matter. So there is no reason that he couldn't have done this as well. Barry too.

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4. In regards to Vision, it has nothing to do with going through him. It's all about creating an unstable resonance, resulting in his molecules vibrating at ta rate that it caused Vision to explore from within.

5. The most powerful version of the character can achieve time travel on his own, and would take the time to learn about his enemies. So even without prep time he'd still study them. He's really only unstable on the show due to an unhealthy obsession with Barry.

Sass aside. MC Scarlet Witch is not Jean Grey, and we shouldn't treat her as such :/

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#41 Posted by Mutant1230 (7085 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewhitecrown:

1: Remember that Thawne has no Prep-Time, and The Avengers do, he would not know to go after Scarlet Witch first. But she would know to start her Mental Manipulation whenever he begin to stay still, the reasoning is not that hard. As someone else pointed out he would need to probably be stagnant to phase someone's chest (as he's always shown to not be running while doing it), while he's doing that (or attempting) to another Avenger, she does it to him. End of story.

2: Good point with the lightning, but Thor definitely has the reaction time and speed feats to possibly handle somebody like Thawne, which you just conveniently ignore. To answer your question, yes, both Thor and Mjolnir have massive reaction time feats. Thor was able to dodge or block multiple plasma and heat based blasts from the Chitauri and Destroyer respectively, and Mjolnir has been shown in The Dark World to travel between planets in extremely short periods of time. Thor could just throw Mjolnir at Thawne and let it chase him, unlike his body, the magical hammer won't get tired. He has no really impressive durability feats so one hit would probably knock him out cold. Or like in Age of Ultron, he could trick Thawne into trying to pick up the hammer and slow him down.

3: Completely ignoring again, how Thor and Hulk have incredible durability feats and Thawne has only successfully done it to one person who had average durability (cisco) never to someone with above average durability. There's no proof he could phase through a super-strong mutate and an Asgardian, he just doesn't have the feats. We don't even know if there biology works the same way and Thawne's power would even do the same thing to them. Entirely speculative.

4: What are you even talking about here? Thawne's power is to phase through molecules via his super speed, but Vibranium has a natural resistance to the vibrations and might not even be affected the same way at all! Plus, he has the power to become ethereal as proven when he walks through the wall into Wanda's room. Could Thawne even put his hand through him at all? Couldn't he just phase through him?

5: -_- seriously? No Prep-time means no prep-time. It doesn't mean he studied any of the Avengers, at all. That was the point in me adding it, he does not know who or what he's going to fight against and has to wing it over to prevail. As the creator of the thread, no, the battle is not set up with Thawne studying them at all. The Avengers, get prep-time and he doesn't, that's the point.

I'm not trying to be sassy with you, I'm just trying to prove a genuine point that Thawne is not nearly as unstoppable and all-powerful as someone people on the vine make him out to be!

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#42 Edited by DragonBornTookAnArrowToTheKnee789 (407 posts) - - Show Bio

@mutant1230:

Eobard is extremely intelligent and probably wouldn't take the fight seriously at first. He'd see some of them use there abilities to try and get him before he goes in trying to finish them off. This in turn gives him an idea on who his facing.

He'd dispose of the ones he knows he could easily take out first like Cap, Black Widow, Hawkeye and Quicksilver. He could also possibly get Scarlet Witch as I don't think she has any feats which shows her competing with someone of Eobards speed. Iron-Man could also get taken down by the tornado which Thrawne generated to use on Firestorm, with this he could then take the opportunity and finish Tony.

I think he'd be capable of vibrating into Hulk's chest but considering Bruce shot himself and Hulk only spat out the bullet((It's a deleted scene in the Incredible Hulk but he does mention it in the Avengers)) I'd say he could possibly regenerate. I'd say he probably would not be capable of taking down Thor and the Vision however.

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#43 Posted by TheSilentRipper (2530 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure with prep they take it.

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#44 Posted by APEX_pretador (21481 posts) - - Show Bio

What the hell, Quicksilver solos

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#45 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13583 posts) - - Show Bio

Avengers

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#46 Edited by TheWhiteCrown (237 posts) - - Show Bio

@mutant1230:

1. When it comes to SW, my point was that he would not simply let her get near him like that. It has nothing to do with prep time.

2. Actually no it hasn't.

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I'll give you this, it is fast enough to reach escape velocity on it's own (via thrust by way of an unknown force). But that's different from Thor actually throwing it. MCU Thor's muscle structure should not be able to cannot generate enough energy to throw Mjolnir at supersonic speeds.

And as for the Chitauri blasts, Cap, BW, and Clint were all able to react to it. Meaning those blasts cannot be moving too fast (i.e. It's not just visual effects). Similarly people can easily avoid the MCU Destroyer's blasts.

3. What Thawne is doing has nothing to do with durability. Yes, Thor's (alien) Asgardian structure is 3x denser than a Humans and Hulk is just whatever he is. But at the end of the day, Thor and Hulk are made of molecules just like everyone else. So Thawne can naturally attune to the vibration frequencies of both, and phase threw them - even without using hand thing to liquefy their insides.

4: What are you even talking about here? Thawne's power is to phase through molecules via his super speed, but Vibranium has a natural resistance to the vibrations and might not even be affected the same way at all! Plus, he has the power to become ethereal as proven when he walks through the wall into Wanda's room. Could Thawne even put his hand through him at all? Couldn't he just phase throughhim?

4a. Okay this comment makes it obvious you don't know Speedster's powers work. Everything they do is a result of the speedforce exciting their molecules. When they phase through things, it's because they're own molecules are vibrating at certain frequencies at super speeds.

4b. Mhm, but Ulysses Klaue uses vibranium to enhance sound waves (vibrations) and generate Sonic blasts (again vibrations). I know he hasn't used it in the MCU, I'm just giving an example. But in my defense: he did steal vibranium for Ultron, he did get his arm cut off in AoU, T'Challa did mention the vibranium thieves, and Klaue will appear in the BP movie. So Klaue will likely become the Klaw. If sound based vibrations work then the Speedster's powers should be able to work on it as well.

5. I'm not talking about before the battle. But okay whatever. He'd still analyze how they fight mid battle. Unless prep time includes getting help from Barry, he won't be stopping every two seconds to gloat.

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#47 Posted by Mutant1230 (7085 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewhitecrown: It doesn't seem to have any effect on Mjolnir how hard Thor is throwing it. Because the magic around the hammer guides it while in mid-air and allows it to pick up good speeds. And where's the proof people can avoid MCU Destroyer blasts?

It has everything to do with durability, Thawne might have to specifically attune his vibrations to accommodate them, or might even know how to do it enough to actually get them, we don't now the limits of Thawne's abilities or of this vibration. And realizing the ambiguous nature of the Thor and Hulk's powers + the Speed Force in general we can't just blindly make the assumption he would know how and it would work. Thor's armor for all we know might be able to protect from vibrations blasts via some sort of Asgardian technology, Hulk might be literally strong enough to just regenerate from it or downright ignore it all together. He seems to have a similar healing factor like he does in the comics. Honestly, you're trying to put way too much science and logic into a guy that can physically run faster than the speed of light, Hulk has survived and done way more outlandish and scientifically preposterous things.

I see your point, but we don't know how MCU Ulysses Klaue will be defined.

My point isn't that he would gloat to them and that is the reason he would stop. I'm saying he might actually not have the power to use speedforce and the vibration at the same time. Never in the show has he done it while running, actually when he killed Nora Allen he specifically used a kitchen knife instead of his hand, because he was vibrating his entire body while doing it. That alone would seem to imply that vibrating through someone takes a lot of focus and practice and is not able to be done well if he's already focusing on running or vibrating his own molecules. So he would have to stop to focus to land any fatal blows on The Avengers, I.E. he could still punch, but not phase.

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#48 Edited by TheWhiteCrown (237 posts) - - Show Bio

@mutant1230: In response to the destroyer, I meant to say, similarly athletic people can easily avoid the MCU Destroyer's blasts. Not by outrunning the laser, which I think Thawne and even Quiksilver could do, but the Destroyer itself. The thing isn't exactly quick and needs to turn it's head (weird 360 revolution thing aside) to aim the laser. In response to Thor, he is faster than the finest human athlete, but I cannot remember (or find) a single scene that puts Thor at supersonic combat speeds or reaction speeds. He can fly fast, but that's a separate thing. Thawne has already mastered all of the powers he showed Barry in season 1. The only reason he used a kitchen knife was to violently kill Barry's mother and then frame Barry's dad. But, don't get me wrong I can envision many ways for them to beat him, but in my mind I see him winning 6/10 times.

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#49 Posted by JBBuc (208 posts) - - Show Bio

I know that we are all very 'feat' dependent, but logically, I don't see how anyone who Vision views as a villain to be stopped will not be stopped. The world's most advanced AI super-computer within a vibranium body, powered by an infinity stone? Come on people.

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#50 Edited by Mutant1230 (7085 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewhitecrown: I'm still not convinced, I think you're way over stating his feats and refusing to acknowledge the plenty of ways The Avengers could beat him. I'm not trying to say you're a bad debator or that you're dumb, but most of this is speculation and conjecture of Thawne and The Avengers abilities.

Also, as far I can tell Thawne had no intention of framing Henry. As far I know in the series the reason he got framed was because he tried to save Nora and got blood all over him, which pretty much sealed his fate in court. I think I remember Joe explaining that to Barry in one episode actually