Revan vs Vader

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NotZiggy

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Poll Revan vs Vader (122 votes)

Revan 50%
Vader 50%

Peaks for both

Fighting on a wide invisible platform on the ocean.

Who wins and why?

 • 
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deactivated-6098713be0993

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Hasn't this been done multiple times?

Anyway, Vader takes this.

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deactivated-5cae4704c27f5

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Revan ragdolls him.

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dark-sith123

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My gut screams Vader. Until the debate's end, however, no decision from my part is final.

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@darthant66: Superior lightsaber skill and comparable Force power (to the point that it's an ongoing debate in a CaV), mainly.

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ArkhamAsylum3

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The fact that 33% of the votes are for Vader makes me cringe.

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DeutschKurzhaar

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The only thing that could save Vader is the force. But Revans is just as good, so Revan takes this, it would be a good fight though

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Supermanthor

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Reven

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@darthant66: Those are all valid, but nearly all of those defeats were with a vastly pre-prime Vader (around ANH). It'd be like me saying Vader is superior because Foundry Revan - who's considerably below SOR Revan - was defeated by the likes of the Emperor's Wrath and/or Darth Nox. In the case of ESB, Vader made it a point to not try and land a serious blow on Luke throughout the duel and simply intends to incapacitate him. I don't regard Luke managing to land a shallow cut on his arm as a low showing considering the circumstances surrounding it and then an enraged Vader quickly ends the fight.

I don't think Vader is decidedly above Revan in lightsaber combat - though I do below there is some kind of gap - and Force power is definitely debatable. However, my reference to the ongoing CaV was meant to refer to the actual arguments for Vader and against Revan that have somewhat forced me to reconsider how close this is. As far as I can tell, Revan's only real edge is in pure versatility. In power they're fairly close, and a duel like this will never be settled with a lightsaber duel.

If Revan exploits his abilities to their maximum (teleporting, lightning, stasis, etc) I believe he can win. However, I believe that in a head-to-head duel Vader has a slight edge. However, the idea that Vader cannot win under any circumstances - let alone that Revan can ragdoll him - is laughable to me (this isn't directed at you).

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deactivated-6034d0d6dcbf4

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Probably Vader, albeit narrowly.

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deactivated-5d446f1367ece

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Sure, but that doesn't change the fact Vader A.) couldn't kill Luke easily, B.) had actively attempted to defeat him, C.) overall considered Luke a "worthy opponent." As for the "shallow cut," that would have likely disarmed Vader if not for his shoulder armor. It's arguably just as legitimate a hit as Luke's disarming, especially considering Vader was "enraged" (per your own admission) and Luke could only use one-hand given he had to hold onto the ledge. It's not a great showing any way you look at it, hence why I mentioned it, especially for a character you're saying is "vastly" more powerful than ANH Vader - that premise simply isn't reflected in this fight.

Urm Vader was toying with Luke in ESB? He wanted to turn him to the darkside. What on earth makes you think he was going to kill him lol

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@darthant66: You keep bring up Vader's feats from the movies, which couldn't showcase his power properly due to the fact they were released during a time when they didn't have amazing special effects or fast paced action etc. We all know if Vader was in a prequel film, he would be wrecking shop. It would be like me concluding that the Emperor isn't that impressive as he was thrown down the shaft by a Vader with no hand while being damaged by lightning. I agree that Revan would win though. Also you bring up the TPM Maul vs Vader fight. First of that wasn't the real Maul. Second off, Maul was amped. Third, Vader still beat him. Also there is nothing wrong with struggling against TPM Maul in a duel considering he is a better duelist than Revan anyway.

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@darthant66: I can't quote you because I'm on mobile. Vader took advantage of his durability, which was how he won, he also broke Maul's saber staff as well. In the case of Old Ben, he definitely grew stronger in the force than ROTS Kenobi. There is absolutely no reason to believe AOTC Kenobi>Ben Kenobi at all. Also the New Hope novel confirms that Vader was winning the fight. You keep bringing up Vader's failings against Maul and Luke, but you are forgetting his other feats. Like when he took on 5 jedi at once in the Purge comic just after ROTS. One of the Jedi he speed blitzed, was a master with great accolades. He also stomped Celeste Morne, a jedi who Darth Krayt struggled against.

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ParagonNate

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Vader, better in every important way

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noah_ouellette

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@breakofdawn: Like in every conceivable way yeah this has been done lmao.

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@darthant66 said:

One of the Jedi he speed blitzed, was a master with great accolades.

Which one?

Ma'kis'shaalas: A Morgukai warrior and Nikto Jedi Master, he survived Order 66. Master Ma'kis'shaalas was known as a fanatical adherent to the Jedi Order, and a fierce combatant. He agreed to meet Master Shadday Potkin on Kessel as part of a plot to ensnare Darth Vader. Vader cut Ma'kis'shaalas down in combat.

-- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

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@darthant66 said:

@deadlyeyes:

Anyway, are you a sock account or new member?

I was SamTheG, who joined relatively recently. Created a new account.

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deactivated-5cdf8e3e9b353

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Vader wins.

using ANH and ESB as a narrative to say vader isn't that impressive is ignorant, Since those movies were made back in like 1979 or something like that where technology isn't nearly as advance as they are now. using that logic even kylo Ren could beat Vader.

Vader wins mainly because he goes stronger through his anger basically like the incredible hulk, nothing Revan has can put Vader down completely since Vader has survived throw being bury alive, survived in spaced, and much more.

if we want to be technical, Vader tanked Darth Sidous's Force lightning...which is the strongest of all the siths.

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Prime Revan wins, not even a contest. His Force powers will allow such a big win over vader...

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dark-sith123

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If anything I support Vader, but I would like to point out that a fraction of Sidious' Force Lightning killed Vader, and that the latter is not invincible- if Revan decapitates him he won't return.

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If anything I support Vader, but I would like to point out that a fraction of Sidious' Force Lightning killed Vader, and that the latter is not invincible- if Revan decapitates him he won't return.

do you have any proof that it was a Fraction of Sidious powers? I would Also like to point out, Vader died because he kinda let himself die he let go of his hate at the end and allowed himself to become the force like Obi-wan. Then there is the fact that Vader's Suit was made to be extremely weak against Force lightning, so regardless of how much we determined he used the fact is he tanked something that was super effective against him and not only that it was force lightning by the most powerful sith as well.

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Thatoneguy2958

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Vader still...

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deactivated-5cae4704c27f5

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Vader still...

Come back to this thread when Vader can replicate Ziost.

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Thatoneguy2958

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@jacensolo77: come back to this thread when you don't lowball Vader.

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@jacensolo77: come back to this thread when you don't lowball Vader.

Saying Vader can't drain an entire planet to the point where it's permanently affected is lowballing now?

Top kek.

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Thatoneguy2958

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#35  Edited By Thatoneguy2958

@jacensolo77: a known Vader lowballer assumes something without clarification again?

Epic Kek.

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@thatoneguy2958: Dude you literally said Vader wins, to argue that you'd have to say he can drain an entire planet, something not remotely in his capacity, yet I'm "lowballing" by saying Revan wins, seems more like you're highballing.

2.I was actually a Vader wanker and only became a "known lowballer" after reassessing my opinion due to reading this CAV which shows just how limited Vader actually is and also how powerful Revan is. Vader's a solid Maul leveller but nothing beyond that.

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Thatoneguy2958

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@jacensolo77: I stated come back to this thread when you don't lowball Vader. Didn't say or name any other conditions.

You assumed I was addressing your ziost comment. I wasn't. Nor is there any feat that Vader has that replicates those exact conditions (nor any similar that I am aware of).

I tend to enjoy the fact that I have a decent basis of knowledge on quite a few star wars characters. I will admit I wank Nihilus at times....more often then I care to own upto...

But saying Vader is maul level is just beyond me.

I'll look over the thread.

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@thatoneguy2958: I stated come back to this thread when you don't lowball Vader. Didn't say or name any other conditions.

Forgive me for operating under the assumption you were referring to my opinion in this thread when you commented to stop lowballing Vader in this thread...

You assumed I was addressing your ziost comment. I wasn't. Nor is there any feat that Vader has that replicates those exact conditions (nor any similar that I am aware of).

Given Revan scales above Ziost wouldn't it then be implausible to argue Vader>Revan given he's performed no feats close to that level.

I tend to enjoy the fact that I have a decent basis of knowledge on quite a few star wars characters.

As do I.

I will admit I wank Nihilus at times....more often then I care to own upto…

Why Nihilus of all people?

But saying Vader is maul level is just beyond me.

Covered in the debate I linked.

I'll look over the thread.

Good man.

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Thatoneguy2958

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@jacensolo77: I'll respond in more detail once I've read the thread and done some more research, though I will say Nihilus has just been one of my favorite characters for years. Dunno why.

Also the good man comment seems a little condescending...though I don't think you meant it as such.

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Laurus

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While I feel Vader is seriously underrated sometimes, Revan takes this.

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ArkhamAsylum3

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#41  Edited By ArkhamAsylum3

@mygod101:

Vader wins.

Your username perfectly sums up my reaction to this.

using ANH and ESB as a narrative to say vader isn't that impressive is ignorant, Since those movies were made back in like 1979 or something like that where technology isn't nearly as advance as they are now. using that logic even kylo Ren could beat Vader.

They still happened and are perfectly viable feats and are consistent with Vader's abilities. Also no Kylo couldn't beat Vader with those feats lol. No canon character compares to Legends characters.

Vader wins mainly because he goes stronger through his anger basically like the incredible hulk, nothing Revan has can put Vader down completely since Vader has survived throw being bury alive, survived in spaced, and much more.

Yet his Force reserves got beaten out of him by Luke and his hand was chopped off. Not buying Revan can't put him down when a much weaker foe has.

If anything it's Vader that can't put Revan down given the latter has tanked blasts which would destroy everything within a 1km radius.

if we want to be technical, Vader tanked Darth Sidous's Force lightning...which is the strongest of all the siths.

Vader being amped by "light side super energy" [er George Lucas and charging up his attack for minutes beforehand and still dying isn't an impressive feat.

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Wolfrazer

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#42  Edited By Wolfrazer

@jacensolo77: I'm a tad bit lost here, how does Revan scale above Ziost when he's never done a feat like that either? If we're going by what a character has done or hasn't, then I'm even more lost for debating characters because certain characters haven't done specific X so how do they scale to Y?

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@arkhamasylum3 said:

@mygod101:

Vader wins.

Your username perfectly sums up my reaction to this.

using ANH and ESB as a narrative to say vader isn't that impressive is ignorant, Since those movies were made back in like 1979 or something like that where technology isn't nearly as advance as they are now. using that logic even kylo Ren could beat Vader.

They still happened and are perfectly viable feats and are consistent with Vader's abilities. Also no Kylo couldn't beat Vader with those feats lol. No canon character compares to Legends characters.

Vader wins mainly because he goes stronger through his anger basically like the incredible hulk, nothing Revan has can put Vader down completely since Vader has survived throw being bury alive, survived in spaced, and much more.

Yet his Force reserves got beaten out of him by Luke and his hand was chopped off. Not buying Revan can't put him down when a much weaker foe has.

If anything it's Vader that can't put Revan down given the latter has tanked blasts which would destroy everything within a 1km radius.

if we want to be technical, Vader tanked Darth Sidous's Force lightning...which is the strongest of all the siths.

Vader being amped by "light side super energy" [er George Lucas and charging up his attack for minutes beforehand and still dying isn't an impressive feat.

Well....That who I am MYGOD.

I you do realize that is helping my cast here right? You said and I quote "His force reserves got beaten out of him by Luke"

so, that actually helps vader because it shows his durability even while in an exhausted stat was able to overpower Darth Sidous the strongest Sith after Vader.

You do Agree that Sidious is much more powerful than Reven right? secondly, Vader let himself die he let go of his hate which was keeping him alive for so long because he completed the prophecy. nothing you said erase the fact that Vader was made to be extremely weak against Sidous Force lightning or the fact that Darth Sidous has the strongest force lightning.

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Thatoneguy2958

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@jacensolo77: after rereading some things, Vader wouldn't need to repeat anything from ziost in order to beat revan. Revan didn't do anything on ziost....so that's some faulty logic.

Sidious being the most powerful sith ever and Vader being 80% of his strength should put him comfortably above revan. As well as the emporer knowing that Vader could kill him.

Gonna stand by Vader winning.

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Revan should take it

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ArkhamAsylum3

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#46  Edited By ArkhamAsylum3

@mygod101:

Well....That who I am MYGOD.

I you do realize that is helping my cast here right? You said and I quote "His force reserves got beaten out of him by Luke"

Yeah they were and I was using it to point out Vader isn't nearly as durable as you make out.

so, that actually helps vader because it shows his durability even while in an exhausted stat was able to overpower Darth Sidous the strongest Sith after Vader.

Dear Lord. Vader took Sidious's lightning when he was amped by "light side super energy" and had charged up his energy for minutes beforehand.

Plus he didn't tank it. He died right aftterwards from the lightning lmao.

You do Agree that Sidious is much more powerful than Reven right?

Yes.

secondly, Vader let himself die he let go of his hate which was keeping him alive for so long because he completed the prophecy. nothing you said erase the fact that Vader was made to be extremely weak against Sidous Force lightning or the fact that Darth Sidous has the strongest force lightning.

Yes it does. Vader being amped to the high heavens makes the feat utterly useless in an actual debate.

As for your point about Vader only dying because he let go of his hate that's false. Numerous sources say Vader was killed by The Emperor's lightning. Plus the fact that you say Vader's hate is what allowed him to tank the Emperor's lightning is truly one of the most laughable arguments I've heard. He was using light side energy in that scene per numerous sources.

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@mygod101:

Well....That who I am MYGOD.

I you do realize that is helping my cast here right? You said and I quote "His force reserves got beaten out of him by Luke"

Yeah they were and I was using it to point out Vader isn't nearly as durable as you make out.

so, that actually helps vader because it shows his durability even while in an exhausted stat was able to overpower Darth Sidous the strongest Sith after Vader.

Dear Lord. Vader took Sidious's lightning when he was amped by "light side super energy" and had charged up his energy for minutes beforehand.

Plus he didn't tank it. He died right aftterwards from the lightning lmao.

You do Agree that Sidious is much more powerful than Reven right?

Yes.

secondly, Vader let himself die he let go of his hate which was keeping him alive for so long because he completed the prophecy. nothing you said erase the fact that Vader was made to be extremely weak against Sidous Force lightning or the fact that Darth Sidous has the strongest force lightning.

Yes it does. Vader being amped to the high heavens makes the feat utterly useless in an actual debate.

As for your point about Vader only dying because he let go of his hate that's false. Numerous sources say Vader was killed by The Emperor's lightning. Plus the fact that you say Vader's hate is what allowed him to tank the Emperor's lightning is truly one of the most laughable arguments I've heard. He was using light side energy in that scene per numerous sources.

you and I both know all that you said is irrelevant.

the fact is Vader Beat Sidious the most powerful sith to ever exist. On top of that, Vader was 80% of that same Sith, As well had Sidious scared of him to the point he had to put him on a leash to make sure that he wouldn't be defeated.

Revan can't hit Vader with enough force to put him down. I think it is fair to say Vader wins.

Right now you are arguing via appeal to emotion. acting as if Vader has don't nothing.... impressive, I am just reminding you that Vader defeated Sidious.

if you can't accept that Vader beat him then you should just stop debating because all your arguments are just going to be bias towards the other side.

thank you and GG.

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ArkhamAsylum3

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@mygod101:

you and I both know all that you said is irrelevant.

Glad to know I'm wasting my time with a moronic idiot who accuses me of bias despite me having Vader as my 3rd favourite SW character (above Revan btw) and absolutely loving him. I accepted a long time ago Vader isn't a top tier. You should to rather than just ignoring everything I said.

the fact is Vader Beat Sidious the most powerful sith to ever exist.

Which I already explained the context to which you completely ignored. This isn't an argument. You need to back up your points with evidence and explain why Vader being amped by light side super energy and his love for his son along with powering himself up for minutes and barely killing The Emperor is more impressive than anything Revan has shown. The feat is totally unquanitifiable as to how impressive it makes Vader and why you expect me to take it seriously is beyond me. But of course according to you my evidence is "irrelevant" and I'm "bias towards the other side".

Top tier debating.

On top of that, Vader was 80% of that same Sith, As well had Sidious scared of him to the point he had to put him on a leash to make sure that he wouldn't be defeated.

Sidious was scared of everyone below him so I don't see why him being scared of Vader is particularly relevant.

As for the 80% quote I already addressed it in another thread so I'll copy paste my arguments here:

Unquantifiable wasn't the right word more like ambiguous as to whether Vader actually has 80% of Sidious's power. Lucas uses the word "maybe" in that sentence indicating he's not exactly certain and the point of the statement wasn't even meant to hype up Vader but rather establish that he's not as strong as The Emperor. Lucas pulling out a random figure on the spot to establish that Vader wasn't as strong as Sidious is a laughable argument to use in a debate given the context.

Furthermore a Vader that was ridiculously amped by "light side super energy" who had charged up his energies for several minutes beforehand was dealt a mortal wound by lightning that had been conjured in a second by an unprepared Sidious. When this is how large the disparity between them is it makes it kinda hard for me to buy into the whole 80% argument.

Revan can't hit Vader with enough force to put him down. I think it is fair to say Vader wins.

Given Vader was stalemated by Ben Kenobi who is canonically weaker than his ROTS iteration I can't really see a case for Vader beating Revan being made.

Right now you are arguing via appeal to emotion. acting as if Vader has don't nothing.... impressive, I am just reminding you that Vader defeated Sidious.

I'm not appealing to emotion just rather educating you on why Vader isn't close to Sidious something which is supported by a lot of the mythos.

Also I never said Vader doesn't have impressive feats but rather he's just a lot weaker than you make him out to be.

if you can't accept that Vader beat him then you should just stop debating because all your arguments are just going to be bias towards the other side.

I should stop debating? You're the one who should stop debating. At least I don't ignore arguments and say they're irrelevant based on nothing.

Also pulling the bias card never works.

thank you and GG.

Concession accepted.

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@arkhamasylum3 said:

@mygod101:

you and I both know all that you said is irrelevant.

Glad to know I'm wasting my time with a moronic idiot who accuses me of bias despite me having Vader as my 3rd favourite SW character (above Revan btw) and absolutely loving him. I accepted a long time ago Vader isn't a top tier. You should to rather than just ignoring everything I said.

the fact is Vader Beat Sidious the most powerful sith to ever exist.

Which I already explained the context to which you completely ignored. This isn't an argument. You need to back up your points with evidence and explain why Vader being amped by light side super energy and his love for his son along with powering himself up for minutes and barely killing The Emperor is more impressive than anything Revan has shown. The feat is totally unquanitifiable as to how impressive it makes Vader and why you expect me to take it seriously is beyond me. But of course according to you my evidence is "irrelevant" and I'm "bias towards the other side".

Top tier debating.

On top of that, Vader was 80% of that same Sith, As well had Sidious scared of him to the point he had to put him on a leash to make sure that he wouldn't be defeated.

Sidious was scared of everyone below him so I don't see why him being scared of Vader is particularly relevant.

As for the 80% quote I already addressed it in another thread so I'll copy paste my arguments here:

Unquantifiable wasn't the right word more like ambiguous as to whether Vader actually has 80% of Sidious's power. Lucas uses the word "maybe" in that sentence indicating he's not exactly certain and the point of the statement wasn't even meant to hype up Vader but rather establish that he's not as strong as The Emperor. Lucas pulling out a random figure on the spot to establish that Vader wasn't as strong as Sidious is a laughable argument to use in a debate given the context.

Furthermore a Vader that was ridiculously amped by "light side super energy" who had charged up his energies for several minutes beforehand was dealt a mortal wound by lightning that had been conjured in a second by an unprepared Sidious. When this is how large the disparity between them is it makes it kinda hard for me to buy into the whole 80% argument.

Revan can't hit Vader with enough force to put him down. I think it is fair to say Vader wins.

Given Vader was stalemated by Ben Kenobi who is canonically weaker than his ROTS iteration I can't really see a case for Vader beating Revan being made.

Right now you are arguing via appeal to emotion. acting as if Vader has don't nothing.... impressive, I am just reminding you that Vader defeated Sidious.

I'm not appealing to emotion just rather educating you on why Vader isn't close to Sidious something which is supported by a lot of the mythos.

Also I never said Vader doesn't have impressive feats but rather he's just a lot weaker than you make him out to be.

if you can't accept that Vader beat him then you should just stop debating because all your arguments are just going to be bias towards the other side.

I should stop debating? You're the one who should stop debating. At least I don't ignore arguments and say they're irrelevant based on nothing.

Also pulling the bias card never works.

thank you and GG.

Concession accepted.

You didn't have to name call me, All you had to do is disagree and that would be that.

I expected better of you, is this how people on here treat new members when they disagree with them? come on be an adult here don't insult people.

Your post irrelevant, because like I said Vader still beat Sidious, who is the strongest Sith. doesn't matter what amp he got the point is he did it. as well as being 80% of Sidious power so yeah.

you have giving nothing that Revan can beat vader you even tried to use a ANH which clearly isn't going to the best feats since it was made in a time where Technology was poor. you were being bias because you were using outdated production and acting like it was the limit of Vader's power.

GG I expect more from you moving forward, Don't worry I believe in you just be nicer to members just learning how things are on here. vader wins here

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@darthant66: Also I find that ludicrous that such source would state a padawan Anakin and an average master level Obi Wan are above ANH Vader and Old Ben. Same with the outdated garbage quote about Ben Kenobi being a level 6 force user, and Vader only being 4. Vader at that point had killed tons of jedi, and was responsible for their near extinction. While Ben Kenobi has been doing jackshit on Tatooine for years