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#1 Edited by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

In-Character

Standard Equipment

Both are in their Prime

Force-Only

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#3 Posted by SithRevenant (993 posts) - - Show Bio

Me and Ant have reached the concensus that they are infact equals in power, though of course we don't hold some individual monopoly on either characters.

I can imagine there will be massive Revan support in the replies, but most people aren't all that well-versed in Kun's own feats, accolades and scaling due to said accolades. No offense implied though, it's just that ILS' respect thread isn't exactly complete, unfortunately.

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#4 Posted by BioDynamicApe (242 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithrevenant:

Me and Ant have reached the concensus that they are infact equals in power, though of course we don't hold some individual monopoly on either characters.

I'd be careful about throwing the word ''fact'' around, bro. Unless, of course, you can prove that Kun = Revan is a fact?

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#5 Edited by SithRevenant (993 posts) - - Show Bio

@biodynamicape: Considering years of debate regarding their stances in comparison to one another, and that we are the biggest proponents of said respective characters, I think we have quite the right to make such a claim.

Though we're hardly infallible authorities on the matter.

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#6 Posted by echostarlord117 (5576 posts) - - Show Bio

Both at their primes? Revan.

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#7 Posted by LordOfTheLight (2586 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Kun.

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#8 Posted by Necromancer76 (3769 posts) - - Show Bio

Revan by quite a bit.

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#9 Edited by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithrevenant:

Isn't infallibility pretty much fact though? The idea that you are well versed/respected on a subject matter would certainly give your voice weight (assuming users have heard of you. Thus far it seems to be mostly self-proclaimed) but I don't think anyone here has the right to claim opinion/personal consensus as fact.

Either way, I certainly don't want to argue over pedantics. I'm just bored is all. :P

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#10 Posted by slayne (519 posts) - - Show Bio

Revan, yeah.

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#11 Edited by TheMuser (1862 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithrevenant said:

Me and Ant have reached the concensus that they are infact equals in power, though of course we don't hold some individual monopoly on either characters.

I can imagine there will be massive Revan support in the replies, but most people aren't all that well-versed in Kun's own feats, accolades and scaling due to said accolades. No offense implied though, it's just that ILS' respect thread isn't exactly complete, unfortunately.

If you have any other kun sources that I am unaware I would appreciate it if you would supply them to me. Particularly ones that are not in his RT.

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#12 Edited by noobsnowman (3613 posts) - - Show Bio

Either way or Revan.

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#13 Posted by deactivated-599632ff76068 (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

Revan.

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#14 Edited by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser:

Tbh, I love physical copies of things.
I might look into getting TOTJ for myself.

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#15 Posted by deactivated-5a98875cd0f94 (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Revan, though Exar gives him hell.

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#16 Posted by deactivated-5a20a68641bc7 (1969 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm favouring Revan here. (I'd probably give Exar a hard victory against novel Revan and *possibly* Foundry Revan.)

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#17 Posted by TheMuser (1862 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperor339: Honestly the comic is excellent. Still never got to use all of my Ulic hype :(

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#18 Edited by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser: I'll never live it down.

A lesson for everyone. Don't write a novels worth of CaV material.

--

I'm assuming you're on Team Kun when it comes to Revan v Exar?

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#19 Edited by TheMuser (1862 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperor339

Eh, I am capable of making the arguments in favor of Kun certainly, however I don't know which one I prefer, I have been hearing some notion of Revan tanking planet busting (Edit: Life destroying on a planetary scale) attacks and I get this look on my face.

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#20 Posted by decaf_wizard (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

I see Exar taking a majority based on his showings on Yavin IV

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#21 Edited by SithRevenant (993 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperor339: I'm primarily a KMC user, though that has recently changed with the prolonged death of SWVF.

Kun physically tanked Ood Bnar's Ossus amped Force blast so I really don't see how you kill him in the first place via the Force given that insane durability feat. Keeping in mind that this same amp would allow Ood to tank supernova waves which killed everything else of the surface of Ossus.

Furthermore, per Darksaber, it took some of the same power to defeat Kun's near powerless spirit as it took for Dorsk 81 to blast back a fleet of seventeen Star Destroyers, end-over-end to 'beyond' the far reaches of the Yavin system in what was described as twigs being blown around by wind. Said attack wrecked the internal systems of the Star Destroyers themselves.

Again, not even Kun in his living prime.

In his living state, whilst pre-prime, he was capable of not just shrugging off the Sever Force attack of, but one-shotting Odan-Urr; the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy at the time, who could casually communicate with ten thousand Jedi telepathically. Which means he's capable of one-shotting legendary Jedi like Thon too, only with more ease.

He also has other feats, whilst massively pre-prime, such as one-shotting Freedon Nadd's spirit, whilst Nadd was amped by the essences of Jedi Masters, to a degree where Nadd could one-shot Vodo Siosk-Baas; the second most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, from across the galaxy. Kun is stated to immediately grow more powerful and replace Nadd as a great power in the galaxy, which could be sensed by Jedi across the galaxy. This is still before he grows immensely more powerful too.

Then there's him pulling a Sith Battleship out of the Great Temple on Yavin IV, which both Abel G. Peña and Tom Veitch have confirmed was at least partially accomplished via the Force. This was, again, massively pre-prime.

He also has a feat of mind controlling every single Tracking Officer on Cinnagar simultaneously, though the figures could vary from thousands, such as his feat with the Senate on Coruscant, to perhaps even millions, given the planet's stated population of 300,000,000,000.

There's more, but I think a very strong case can be made for Exar Kun.

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#22 Edited by Azronger (4325 posts) - - Show Bio

Exar wins. Revan was creamed by Vitiate, and a pre-prime Kun has been stated to be the darkest power in the same galaxy that Vitiate resided in. I also believe Kun could win even without that statement.

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#23 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7883 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger: Um.....no. Vitiate would stomp Kun horribly. Besides, Vitiate also has accolades confirming him to be te greatest Dark side master of the time.

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#24 Edited by SithRevenant (993 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: All of his most powerful accolades either:

1.Massively pre-date Kun.

2.Are dated over 350 years after Kun's death.

Kun's accolades are perfectly applicable, the question is regarding how debatable they are.

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#25 Posted by Killerwasp (17293 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by LordOfTheLight (2586 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithrevenant

Kun should win here, but:

Furthermore, per Darksaber, it took some of the same power to defeat Kun's near powerless spirit as it took for Dorsk 81 to blast back a fleet of seventeen Star Destroyers, end-over-end to 'beyond' the far reaches of the Yavin system in what was described as twigs being blown around by wind. Said attack wrecked the internal systems of the Star Destroyers themselves.

That power is actually not comparable to the one it took to defeat Kun. The only thing being compared was the technique-the force meld. There is no kind of correlation between the power output of the two, not even a loose comparison as you've suggested here because:

1. The trainees were 30 in number here, plus Dorsk 81 himself. Much more than the number gone to confront Kun.

2. When confronting Kun, the trainees had only trained for a few weeks. Their training would be incredibly limited, and they wouldn't even have learned the basics properly. Here they have a full year of training and experience, and it should be obvious that they would be exponentially ahead.

3. Kyp Durron joins the meld here. Even in 11 ABY, he was vastly ahead of any single trainee, and his "potential" was compared to Skywalker's potential himself. Furthermore, his training was limited to a scant few weeks( including his time with Kun), even lesser than the other trainees. It's again, obvious that he would be exponentially ahead by 12 ABY.

4. Dorsk 81 states that the power in the meld this time, is greater than anything he had ever imagined before, and that was before he was drawing on its full power.

Lastly, Kun wasn't a "powerless" or a helpless spirit anymore. He had completely drained Gantoris, and was still draining Kyp.

I get that you haven't said anything implying equality between the two cases, but even a loose comparison or any suggestion that the power it took to defeat Kun is anything even remotely approaching the power in Darksaber, is flat out wrong. As such, there is no point in bringing this up.

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#27 Posted by PenguinLover (994 posts) - - Show Bio

Couls see it go either way to be honest.

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#28 Posted by Slayedigneel (1920 posts) - - Show Bio

Both are pretty even, i'd give Revan the slight edge.

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#29 Posted by TheMuser (1862 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithrevenant: Good points in favor of Kun certainly, all of the points you made I am familiar with bar two.

Furthermore, per Darksaber, it took some of the same power to defeat Kun's near powerless spirit as it took for Dorsk 81 to blast back a fleet of seventeen Star Destroyers, end-over-end to 'beyond' the far reaches of the Yavin system in what was described as twigs being blown around by wind. Said attack wrecked the internal systems of the Star Destroyers themselves.

He also has a feat of mind controlling every single Tracking Officer on Cinnagar simultaneously, though the figures could vary from thousands, such as his feat with the Senate on Coruscant, to perhaps even millions, given the planet's stated population of 300,000,000,000.

Evidence for both of these feats would be appreciated.

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#30 Posted by kbroskywalker (13404 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser:

revan never tanked a planet busting attack, he channeled/focused a very small portion of the energy of a life wiping attack

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#31 Posted by TheMuser (1862 posts) - - Show Bio

@kbroskywalker: Yeah LotL already explained that to me, in which case its bunk.

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#32 Posted by darthbane77 (2106 posts) - - Show Bio

Revan, though Kun gives him one hell of a fight.

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#33 Posted by SithRevenant (993 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser:

"Dorsk 81 tilted his smooth face up to the sky and held his hands at his sides, fingers spread. The stone felt strong beneath the soles of his feet, and he calmed himself, reaching within him for threads that he could spin together with the others.

Kyp and Kirana Ti, Kam Solusar, and all the other Jedi trainees-some he knew well, others he had barely met-also focused their abilities. Dorsk 81 recalled how they had banded together to fight Exar Kun, and now he felt the same invisible whirlwind surrounding him.

The new Jedi Knights joined together with invisible cords of light. The bonds were strong, reinforcing their skills from person to person. Dorsk 81 stood in the middle, the eye of the storm, where he could draw upon the Force, magnifying it with a strength greater than he had ever conceived.

His determination formed a crushing vise in his mind that obliterated the doubt-and before he could be distracted by other thoughts, Dorsk 81 reached out and grasped the threads of Force the other trainees offered to him. He felt as if he had tapped into a huge power source, an overload of energy that he channelled through himself without hesitation.

He reached upward with his hands, picturing the Star Destroyers in orbit: seventeen wedge-shaped engines of death bristling with weapons, loaded with more TIE fighters and assault troops. His thoughts soared outward, leaving the emerald jungle moon, and trailing behind his presence came a battering ram of invisible, irresistible Force that would be undetectable on any Imperial scanners. The Star Destroyers waited, overconfident, powerful-unsuspecting.

He found them. Touched them with his mind. They were huge, greater in mass than he had imagined; even so, he used the Force to push.

Dorsk 81 strained, touching the cluster of ships . . . but they proved immovable, too large. The Force held them, yet it could not do what he needed it to do. He tried harder.

He drew more energy from the others. He could feel the determination and controlled anger of Kyp Durron, the clean fighting prowess of Kirana Ti, the powerful deep knowledge of Tionne, the grim pain of Kam Solusar, the childlike wonder of Streen-and more. . . more. He took all of the Jedi trainees within himself, braiding the threads together, becoming a vast and complex set of memories, strengths, and skills. He reached deeper and deeper.

He pushed again, straining harder, abandoning all caution.

The Star Destroyers moved slightly in space, bucking and resisting-but it was still not enough.

Without a second thought, without hesitation, Dorsk 81 reached all the way down, drawing from the deep wells of the Force that the thirty gathered Jedi Knights had opened for him. He took more and more without restraint, hoarding it within himself, letting it build as he absorbed the full searing power amplified through the Great Temple, focused it through his body and launched it at the fleet of Star Destroyers.

The inside of his head went bright like a star going supernova behind his skull, and his consciousness rode along with the tidal wave of Force. He felt it strike the seventeen Star Destroyers, and they slammed backward like twigs in a typhoon. The shockwave flung the entire fleet far out, cast them helplessly beyond the fringes of the Yavin system, their computers fried, their propulsion systems wrecked, still accelerating from the storm of the Force."

- Darksaber

"Help!"

"No one will help you, no one even knows."

"But your ship! Energy blasts! Scanners!"

"All went unnoticed, my unfortunate friend. With the dark side I blinded every scanning technician in Cinnagar. They all watched me land and wipe out your little docking bay, and not one of them batted an eye!"

"Who.. are you?"

"I? Soon, I shall be the man who conquered this planet, the man who rules the galaxy. But for this moment, I am the man who murdered you."

- Docking bay staff and Exar Kun, Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith Audio Drama CD #2

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#34 Posted by TheMuser (1862 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Edited by decaf_wizard (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger said:

Exar wins. Revan was creamed by Vitiate, and a pre-prime Kun has been stated to be the darkest power in the same galaxy that Vitiate resided in. I also believe Kun could win even without that statement.

Well, I mean he also gets pretty good scaling from the immediately post DE Era. Among the strongest of eras

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#36 Posted by kbroskywalker (13404 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger said:

Exar wins. Revan was creamed by Vitiate, and a pre-prime Kun has been stated to be the darkest power in the same galaxy that Vitiate resided in. I also believe Kun could win even without that statement.

Well, I mean he also gets pretty good scaling from the immediately post DE Era. Among the strongest of eras

Scaling from luke is bunk.

Otherwise all he has is being among two of the most powerful threats said luke has ever faced, and even then that was kyp's power anyway which made him a threat, not his own

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#37 Posted by decaf_wizard (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard said:
@azronger said:

Exar wins. Revan was creamed by Vitiate, and a pre-prime Kun has been stated to be the darkest power in the same galaxy that Vitiate resided in. I also believe Kun could win even without that statement.

Well, I mean he also gets pretty good scaling from the immediately post DE Era. Among the strongest of eras

Scaling from luke is bunk.

Otherwise all he has is being among two of the most powerful threats said luke has ever faced, and even then that was kyp's power anyway which made him a threat, not his own

Im not getting back into this argument with you. We have had this conversation before IIRC

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#38 Posted by mr-luxcipher (7593 posts) - - Show Bio

Leaning toward Revan.

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#39 Posted by kbroskywalker (13404 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by ordeith (1595 posts) - - Show Bio

Kun > Post Nathema Vitiate > Revan.

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#41 Edited by Azronger (4325 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: Sorry, but official statememts come before your opinions. Kun has been stated to be the darkest power in the same galaxy Vitiate resided in. Fact.

I'm interested what accolades Vitiate has declaring him the most powerful dark side user of the time, though. And of course I mean Kun's time, not TOR the video game, obviously. If you bring up those they are meaningless.

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#42 Posted by LordOfTheLight (2586 posts) - - Show Bio

Kun's scaling from JA "from Luke" is bunk. Luke was immensely hindered in his body, and he beat back Kun's spirit( which was no longer powerless as it had drained Gantoris completely and was still draining Kyp), when a powerless spirit himself.

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#43 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7883 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger said:

@hittheassasin: Sorry, but official statememts come before your opinions. Kun has been stated to be the darkest power in the same galaxy Vitiate resided in. Fact.

I'm interested what accolades Vitiate has declaring him the most powerful dark side user of the time, though. And of course I mean Kun's time, not TOR the video game, obviously. If you bring up those they are meaningless.

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The Emperor's Fallen Jedi (Knight).")

The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

The Sith Emperor, history's most powerful dark side master, performed a ritual of incredible scope to consume the life energy of every being on his homeworld.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

This Encyclopedia applies to the whole "TOR" timeline, from Valks birth to his death and to his time as Valkorion, so after Kun's death.

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#44 Edited by Azronger (4325 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: Yup, you did exactly the thing I predicted you'd do. Those quotes are worthless in determining how powerful novel Vitiate is, unless you think he didn't increase in power at all in the centuries leading up to TOR.

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#45 Posted by bigsambino87 (1754 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Revan. He seems to have a myriad of tricks up his sleeve.

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#46 Posted by CuckedCurry (841 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#47 Posted by Greysentinel365 (6015 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's pretty clear Revan wins this now.

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#48 Posted by i_like_swords (26192 posts) - - Show Bio

KOTOR Revan absolutely destroys him, and SOR glares him out of existence.

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#49 Posted by Richard96 (5644 posts) - - Show Bio

Revan stomps the shit out of this jobber

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#50 Posted by dark-sith123 (4871 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that we have confirmation on Malak>Kun, Revan destroys Exar.