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#1 Posted by slayne (521 posts) - - Show Bio

Team are in their primes, and Sidious is ROTJ.

All gear, abilities, etc.

Fight takes place on Tatooine.

R1: same as above.

R2: Sidious is DE

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#3 Edited by decaf_wizard (17009 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think ROTJ Sids could beat Nihilus and SoR Revan without high difficulty

DE might be able to win easier with force storm

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#4 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: DE Sidious is same as RotJ Sidious except he master Force Storm and Essence Transfer.

That said, could go either way

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#5 Edited by kbroskywalker (13408 posts) - - Show Bio

@slayne: sidious stomps, it can be rots sidious, outcome is still the same

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#6 Posted by slayne (521 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by kbroskywalker (13408 posts) - - Show Bio

@slayne said:

more powerful than valk, much more powerful than nihlus

much faster than either, outclasses both with saber use, valk saber wise is literally a non factor.

So yea evena s of rots, he still takes this every time, nihlus is fodder here.

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#8 Edited by decaf_wizard (17009 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz said:

@decaf_wizard: DE Sidious is same as RotJ Sidious except he master Force Storm and Essence Transfer.

That said, could go either way

Yea I know, plus the young body

I think Revan has enough esoteric abilities to block essence transfer, and im not sure if it would work on Nihilus. As for Force Storm, Nihilus has shown TK on a similar level to say he MAY be able to block the worst of it, but Revan does not and I doubt the duo could survive Sheev spamming that for long. I think force storm would probably be the deciding factor.

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#9 Posted by i_like_swords (26231 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious destroys

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#10 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16803 posts) - - Show Bio

Sheev murks them.

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#11 Posted by echostarlord117 (5617 posts) - - Show Bio

Revan is obviously not going to be able to defeat Palpatine. Darth Nihilus' only chance would be to try and drain Palpatine, but it's highly likely that Palpatine knew how to counter Force Drain.

Anyway, Darth Sidious would win comfortably in both rounds.

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#12 Posted by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

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#13 Edited by darthbane77 (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins both times. Those who say Palpatine wins easily are hilariously incorrect.

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#14 Posted by i_like_swords (26231 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins both times. Those who say Palpatine wins easily are hilariously incorrect.

Incorrect eh? Let's hear it.

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#15 Posted by darthbane77 (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: So you mean to tell me that Sidious could easily defeat Nihilus? Nihilus, who tore a Star Destroyer sized ship from Malachor's gravity well and then held it together with only the power of the Force, was capable of leaving entire planets as barren wastelands. Sorry, but if you think Sidious can easily defeat anybody with that kind of power you are sorely mistaken, and there's no argument you can make that will prove otherwise.

Then there's the matter of Revan, whom (depending on interpretations of the quote) was more powerful than Nihilus as of the Mandalorian Wars. But I don't need to focus on that quote entirely. He has plenty of other combat related feats that would AT LEAST make him a challenge for Sidious in a duel.

This is not a fight that Sidious can win, especially not easily. That's based entirely on feats, based on their accolades, what we are able to see them performe; and both Nihilus and Revan have feats that are comparable to some of the things Sidious has done.

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#16 Posted by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

Even TPM Sidious would one-shot.

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#17 Edited by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthbane77: LMAO. Sidious ragdolled a 19 000 meter ship while not even using his full power. Nihilus' showing isn't even 1/15 of that.

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#18 Posted by darthbane77 (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger: Sidious didn't lift the ship out of the gravity of a planet though, lol. So Sidious' feat is still inferior. Unless Sidious did in fact lift it out of a planet's gravity well, which I don't recall being the case.

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#19 Edited by Kiadi-Monday (298 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious wins. He's above either of them individually by a wide margin, especially as of DE. The team certainly aren't getting stomped or anything, but Sidious will inevitably win by virtue of being better.

@azronger said:

LMAO. Sidious ragdolled a 19 000 meter ship while not even using his full power. Nihilus' showing isn't even 1/15 of that.

Are you talking about Sidious' burial of the Lusankya? If so, then Sidious didn't actually bury it with his TK. The New Essential Guide to Characters states that it was Imperial engineers who buried it in Corsuscant, Sidious simply fogged the minds of the witnesses.

No Caption Provided

"She renamed the vessel the Lusankya, and, with help from the Emperor's mind-fogging powers, Imperial engineers buried the tremendous battleship beneath the cityscape in Corsucant's Manarai Mountain district"

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#20 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by decaf_wizard (17009 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger said:

Even TPM Sidious would one-shot.

Yea, no. Regardless of if he would beat either of these two, Sheev is only capable of oneshotting either of these two with a force storm and as far as I'm aware he can only use that in DE

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#22 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious stomps.

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#23 Posted by deactivated-5be183e26f3e9 (1228 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

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#24 Posted by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthbane77: Oh? So you can quantify the gravity well and say with unwavering confidence that Nihilus' feat is superior? Let's hear it, then.

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#25 Edited by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiadi-monday: That was retconned in Fact File.

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#26 Posted by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: Um, yes. If novel Vitiate could one-shot Revan, TPM Sidious sure as hell is doing it too. Nihilus goes down with a lightning blast or a saber throw to his mask.

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#27 Edited by darthbane77 (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger: I'll get the numbers and stuff when/and if I have the time. But as for the relatively short response. We can use Earth as an example for this. We know it requires a tremendous amount of force to actually be able to lift a rocket out of atomosphere, which is why our space crafts require high powered engines to propel them out of the atmosphere. The larger the object, the more power is required. Nihilus lifted a 1,200 meter ship out of the atmosphere, which would have required a HUGE amount of power to achieve. As he would have been fighting the force of gravity itself. Given that the largest spacecraft we have ever sent into space weighed in excess of 100 tons, and are smaller than a Centurion class cruiser, it's reasonable to assume that the power output Nihilus had to give was far in excess of anything we have ever produced; especially when operating under the assumption that nothing we have ever sent into space is as long or as heavy as a Centurion class ship.

Sidious didn't lift his ship out of the atmosphere, he wasn't fighting the full force of the planet's gravity and he was actually moving it down; because did he not BURY the ship? Meaning Sidious actually had gravity's help for most of the time. So no, the feat for Sidious isn't as good as Nihilus'; and that's based on common sense and a basic understanding of physics. As I said, I will get the numbers if I have the time, or if I decide I care to further argue against you Sheev wank.

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#28 Edited by Heinrich7 (541 posts) - - Show Bio

Legends Sidious should take this without difficulty. Movie/Current canon Sidious I'm not quite sure, team "might" be able to take him. But I tend to think it'd be more on SoR Revan for the most part. Maybe movie Palps takes one of them out, and one just barely walks out alive.

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#29 Posted by Slayedigneel (1921 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger: Vitiate didn't one shot Revan. He tried to mind fuck Revan, which failed, he sent 3 bolts of lightning at Revan which he easily dodged and deflected back. Vitiate resorted to using his full might, aka the force lightning he built up. That only managed to burn a weakend Revan's skin. And he proceeded to get back up and fight a minute later, After using force heal.

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#30 Posted by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthbane77: None of that proves anything until you quantify in numbers.

And then we must factor in that Sheev most likely didn't use even one fourth of his power to do it given that he was simultaneously doing other top tier Force tasks like fogging the minds of billions, performing a draining feat from across the galaxy (which makes Nihilus' stunt on Katarr look like child's play), and providing galaxy-wide Battle Meditation for all of the Empire's troops. He did all of this while also burying the Lusankya.

Even if you prove Nihilus' can win a contest of who can lift the biggest pile of shit, it still wouldn't mean he's nearly as powerful as Sheev overall.

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#31 Posted by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

@slayedigneel: The Force Lightning Storm is what I'm referring to. Revan was incapacitated after a single surge. That counts as a one-shot.

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#32 Posted by darthbane77 (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger: Slow drain over time is not as impressive as instantly wiping out all life on a planet with ease, lol. I'm not even sure I want to continue this honestly, you're a Sheevite and it's well known; there's no point in proving you wrong because you'll simply ignore it if it goes against your Sheev wank. Call it a concession if it makes you feel better, as for me, I'm going to call it "not wasting my time." You've proven to me many times that arguing with you is as pointless as arguing with kbro, neither of you can see passed your own bias.

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#33 Posted by Kiadi-Monday (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger said:

That was retconned in Fact File.

Which Fact File? This one? (credit to shootingnova)

Years before, one of a number of Super Star Destroyers commissioned by the Emperor had disappeared. In fact, as a demonstration of Palpatine's dark side powers, he had buried the Lusankya at the edge of Imperial City.

Credit: The Official Star Wars Factfile #9

That does state that Palpatine buried it with his own power, yes. However, it is from the (original) Factfile #9, which was published in February 2002.

The New Essential Guide to Characters was published in April 2002.

So the NEGC would retcon the Fact File, in that case. Not the other way round. Unless there is something I'm missing or getting wrong.

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#34 Posted by Slayedigneel (1921 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger: It was still Vitiate's full might, it's was the tiny amounts of energy that Revan's tutamini's couldn't hold, due to his connecting to the force being weakened. Another palp/Yoda would of happened otherwise. It's going a bit far to say one shot, since he didn't stay down for long. And one shot generally means they get downed on the first attack, which obviously didn't happen.

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#35 Posted by DaDivineKing (5521 posts) - - Show Bio

Team.

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#36 Posted by Thoromdil (1840 posts) - - Show Bio

Force storm is more then Nihilus and Revan can handle. Honestly, after seeing how Sidious absolutely humiliated Savage and Maul, who are both very powerful characters easily above your average sith lord/jedi master I think he could even win this fight without the Force Storm though. I don't think characters who aren't in top 5 of star wars can even present a threat to Sidious honestly. And my top 5 would be EU Luke, Mace Windu, Yoda, Sidious, and Talzin.

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#37 Edited by PayneInTheAss (11772 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Edited by Slayedigneel (1921 posts) - - Show Bio

@thoromdil: Good thing Revan is a match for Mace Windu, then.

And Valkorian is > all apart from DE Luke/Sidious

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#39 Posted by nerdchore (8164 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Edited by DaDivineKing (5521 posts) - - Show Bio

@thoromdil said:

Honestly, after seeing how Sidious absolutely humiliated Savage and Maul, who are both very powerful characters d Talzin.

You do know both Nihilus and Revan would clown Maul and Savage, too?

Hardly solid reason to base your argument on.

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#41 Posted by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthbane77: And draining a planet from across the galaxy is more impressive than draining it from the atmosphere, lol.

Nah, the only biased one here is you. Biased against people who identify as Sheevites. Even if none of them have a bias for Sheev (I don't), you don't want to have anything to do with them. At least that's the vibe I get from your attitude and baseless accusations.

If you do the math, I will accept it.

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#42 Posted by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiadi-monday: Ah, my bad. I remembered it was another issue. However, TNEGTC is written in-universe by historians, whereas the Fact File is omniscient, so it still takes precedence.

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#43 Posted by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

@slayedigneel: Revan may have been weakned, but novel Vitiate is nowhere near TPM Sidious' power level, so it balances out. Revan will still get one-shot.

And we can debate semantics all we want but the fact is that Revan was unable to continue the fight for several minutes after being hit by that attack. That's more than enough time for Sidious to kill Nihilus with a lightning blast or a saber throw to the mask.

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#44 Posted by Slayedigneel (1921 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger: No there is no evidence that TPM sidious is > Novel Vitiate, that only happens during ROTS, Sidious get's scaled to Vitiate, till DE, though we know he has increased his power during ROTJ.

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#45 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

No there is no evidence that TPM sidious is > Novel Vitiate, that only happens during ROTS, Sidious get's scaled to Vitiate, till DE, though we know he has increased his power during ROTJ.

A source from 2012 claims that TPM Sidious is the most powerful Sith Master who ever lived. Meaning he's not only factually above novel Vitiate, but SWTOR Vitiate as well.

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#46 Edited by themadtitan0331 (295 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a toss up.. Can Raven stop her demonic side being influenced by the dark side.. i feel like it'd be a double whammy that she couldn't take especially because Trigon would step in and help sidious with the influence.. just saying!

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#47 Edited by WollfMyth209 (16803 posts) - - Show Bio
@themadtitan0331 said:

This is a toss up.. Can Raven stop her demonic side being influenced by the dark side.. i feel like it'd be a double whammy that she couldn't take especially because Trigon would step in and help sidious with the influence.. just saying!

Revan, not Raven... Unless you're joking; by God I hope you are.

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#48 Edited by kbroskywalker (13408 posts) - - Show Bio

@slayedigneel said:

No there is no evidence that TPM sidious is > Novel Vitiate, that only happens during ROTS, Sidious get's scaled to Vitiate, till DE, though we know he has increased his power during ROTJ.

A source from 2012 claims that TPM Sidious is the most powerful Sith Master who ever lived. Meaning he's not only factually above novel Vitiate, but SWTOR Vitiate as well.

post please

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#49 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Edited by kbroskywalker (13408 posts) - - Show Bio

@slayedigneel said:

@thoromdil: Good thing Revan is a match for Mace Windu, then.

And Valkorian is < luke, tpm sidious, yoda, anakin, plagueis ect.