Republic and CIS vs Covenant Empire (Rd 1)

It's time debaters to finally come to agreement on whom would win.

First Side

The Galactic Republic Clone Army

&

The Confederacy of Independent Systems.

vs

Covenant Empire

The Battle Ground is Geonosis

Note the droid ships in the background are not there in this battle.

Rules of Engagement

1. No Navy this round due to it being round 1 Only air ships are allowed no space ships
2. The GR aka the clone army at its height of power with all the technology and research at the end of the clone wars
3. CIS at its height of power with all the technology and research at the end of the clone wars
4. Covenant Empire at its height of power with all the technology at the end of halo 3
5. Both armies are have no prior knowledge to this planet. Regardless of the two battles that have taken place here before.
6. They start at opposites about 1 mile in between
7. No jedi or sith allowed
8. All leaders are allowed for both sides.
9. the GR and CIS work together perfectly fine as if the war had never happened
10. Covenant working together no internal fighting at all aka elites are in command and the brutes respect this.
11. No BFR and no prep
12. All canon is allowed aka comics, books, novels, etc.
13. No prior knowledge for either side.

Let the battle begin!

Please do read the rules they are important and this battle and its terms will separate it from the battles that have taken place already.

Starwars side- @shootingnova@jedixman@i_like_swords@spartankobe@rebel_leader1@fetts@dccomicsrule2011@wolfrazer@penderor@erkan12@okayalright_44@shadowpro@darkdefender@ninjawarrior268@shawnbaby

Covenant side- @killerwasp@wut@detrolord@jwwprod@cjdavis103@eisenfauste@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek@oreoassassin@jay0253@jmarshmallow@army2442@monsterstomp@never_give_up@thedailybagel@rogueshadow

Lol? I'll wait for the starwars did to begin on how they will own the covenant I guess...... @wut he actually did it LOL

Ohh i just remember my 1st debate with eisenfauste against the covenant while i was defending Starwars i will wait for now

@killerwasp: Huh, funny enough, I said in an empire vs empire fight I would side with the Republic everytime, yet he tags me as a debater for the Covenant side? Odd.

@wut: In this battle I'm going with covenant at max height, with current tech. ^^ plus leaders, and no jedi nor sith. Yeah.. XD

@killerwasp: Mm, if it was just the ground forces of the Republic Clones vs the ground forces of the Covenant, I would go with the Covenant, but I think the CIS really throws it in Star Wars favor as that is a lotof droids.

@wut: True, but unlike clones technically speaking the Covenant troops got better gear to fight such droids per say. Such as grunts and their big blue, balls XD, and he did say the height of them.... so that's a lot of scarabs LOL

@killerwasp: I don't know. I think the masses of B1s along with the B2s and various specialist droids like the Droideka coupled with the far more skilled (compared to the droids) Clones would overwhelm the Covenant.

Star Wars is going to hold the air advantage with an iron fist.

But I kinda want to wait and see what the sides bring up, but for now, I am in the Star War's Camp.

@wut: U forgot the more important thing on this battlefield... Covenant got wraith tanks and can spam the big blue balls the droids don't care to move out of the way about. Plus their are tons on both sides so they can't necessary miss XD LOL

@killerwasp: Yea, but Covenant suffer from two things when it comes to their Wraiths: They are rather short ranged, and the covenant do love to get close to the front lines with them and secondly, with vastly superior air power, the Republic and CIS should have little problem in clearing Wraiths that prove too dangerous to their infantry with a quick air raid.

@wut: Eh thats a lot of banshees, and vampires there. Plus Phantom drop ships whom IIRC are pretty dang fast, on top of having the turrets that turned the doors into worthless metal. Plus AA from the Wraiths which fire even faster and move at a faster rate than the Wraiths. Plus AA from the actual Covenant AA ( aka mantis ) on top of having Scarab AA, on top of having Hunter AA, on top of having personal AA turrents. I think Republic Gun ships would go down.Keep in mind he said aircraft not space craft so with that said the Republic only gots its dropships and i do believe uh the CIS has something similar. I think all that AA can take out all those drop ships.

@killerwasp: Yea, but do I have to comment on banshee speed? ^_-

AA fire, while useful, is never able of taking down all the fliers. It always manages to down some, but it is more of a deterrence as hitting fast aircraft is rather difficult. Although... you bring up an incredibly good point about Star Wars Airpower.

@aressword: Question on the Forces: Republic and CIS, are they allowed to employ their starfighters and bombers, like they often do in canon, as atmospheric air power? Or, as vehicles designed primarily for space, are they disqualified?

@wut: Yeah, however if we allowed air stuff, we'd have to allow the Covenant aircraft which is basically a fighter and a bomber at the same time as well. Either way the mantis is meant for the faster stuff and things like that, along with having a very long range over the battlefield. Airships i'd doubt would even last the mile on both sides, so i could say air is gonna be a stalemate for a while. In the mean time while thats going down, Covenant i feel with their armor ( besides wraiths ) could hurt the clones and droids on the bottom, only the heavy stuff i feel would last longer. Gotta remember it doesn't take much to destroy their stuff due to mostly star wars being more of a space battle kinda universe. However, im more than willing to hear out the other side.

None too sure about the Covenant, so can't really comment as I'm not sure what kind of weapons they have and all that.

I don't know anything about Covenant empire :/

I'm thinking Covenant, but really that's because they're the only one I'm knowledgable about.

Jmarshmallow

Good luck with that im going 2 be at the Starwars side ya forgetting something starwars debaters don't uses movie feats -_-

i'm kinda d same xd and i can't really debate until the forces of both factions is decided or its just an all out war

Can someone tell me the numbers of covenant empire? Because clones has at least 3 millions of soldiers. That means CIS has at least 10-20 millions (In fact its probably much bigger number). I am not sure about the vehicles, but there could be thousands of tanks, Not even counting special forces.

The problem is, that there are tons of other soldiers in the Galaxy. I can imagine the Republic rallying up like 50 millions?

@detrolord: XD

Ok i will start since theres on numbers on the force in this 1st round and but also spaceships allowed

SW team wins this

CIS can mass and replenish its men/droneswhile covies cannot exception of grunts but still slower than drones

CIS will just keep dumping driods in the battlefield even it takes 1000 driods to kill an elite its fine by us we make more

Confederacy have far more resources than the Covies it can be easily shift in the war effort

honestly even the CIS can take the Covies in the long run

Come Covies we got several Quintillions of Driods waiting at your doorstep

ohh don't forget the Madalorians

IN All OUT WAR CIS WINS!!!

i made my debate since its only one planet, no spaceship and no forces was posted i made it an all out war read it comment #24 try to counter the might of CIS

The Republic has WAAAAAAAAY more people than that.

But this is rather moot as only the Clone Army and CIS are involved.

CIS Seperatist Driod Army

here this is only a part of CIS forces which is said to be Quintillions

General Grievous said:

In the Battle of Coruscant alone, hundreds of millions of battle droids saw action on the ground and in space

Yah making SW universe look weak bro

@detrolord: I asked for the Covenant numbers. Besides, I doubt that CIS is stupid enough to send all forces to first wave.

@wolfrazer: No preparation are allowed.

@penderor: Right I know, but you asked "The problem is, that there are tons of other soldiers in the Galaxy. I can imagine the Republic rallying up like 50 millions?"

Unless that wasn't a question.../shrug

@detrolord: I think hes trying to say that all forces are there are there no reinforcements nothing else just all of them on one planet to fight it out but i could be wrong let me tag him and find out this is REALLY unclear on stuff

@aressword yo no offense, but mind adding in some of the blanks that were left when u made this thread numbers, uh ships and stuff?

@wolfrazer: Numbers on the droids and clones any idea how much per say?

@penderor: There is no "number" on covenant forces at their height they are breaking into the billions. Grunts alone who just had their population wiped were brought down to 365 million. If hes talking at their height they were pretty dang high. Now i understand people will say tahts counting civs but the fact is everyone fights in the covenant that is considered fodder ( aka grunts and stuff ). So with that in mind ik the hunters got 1 billion people, elites and stuff are high millions as well. Most if not almost all elites are in the military as well due to the agreement of them no longer being in science per say, so the population of them is unknown we can only guess.However, the covenant has lost fleets and tons of armies and did not care at all. Heck they glassed their own people if need be cause they simply because they wanted to complete their objective faster. All in all prolly breaking a billion or high millions like really high 800+. This is counting Jackals, Elites, Engineers, Brutes, Hunters, Grunts, and those flying bugs.

yes you did ask about the covenant numbers but i also put what General Grievous said right here read it again

In the Battle of Coruscant alone, hundreds of millions of battle droids saw action on the ground and in space

since your saying about a small amount for the CIS 10-20 million which is only can be a scout army while every battle and planets has at least 200-500 millions that can defend or take part with

since theirs no indication of the amount of force the faction can send

@penderor if this is the meaning of your post 10-20 million or probably more is not even a standard even with reinforcement and why will the CIS send a scout army when they are going to war w/ the covies?

@killerwasp: I don't really have the numbers on hand of what the two factions had height wise in numbers.

man we need a proper force so i don't have to speculate

@killerwasp: Ok so from what I got here...the Clone Army number at 3 million+ troops plus support personnel.

As for the CIS....they are over a Quadrillion droids in total, including the support droid personnel to keep it all going.

@penderor: I was more or less asking myself. Republic must have military forces besides clones. If Clones are multi-planetary army is like 3 millions and there tons of planets that probably has millions as well. I am not really sure what can covenant bring against them.

The Galaxy can most likely pick up like billions of soldiers from nowhere in fact.

@killerwasp: I actually think that such big calculations are beyond our posibilities. There is just too many people and this planet is just too small lol.

@penderor: Problem is hes only saying the clone army and that the battle takes place here not other planets

and yeah LOL i don't think u can fit them all on here, but it'd think it'd be funny lol

@wolfrazer: ah kk

@darkdefender: Wrong, the jedi were there and so were republic militia. So the droids would be pretty high numbers, and your right it seems a little too high, but we also got that. ( that as in the jedi to account for and militia groups as well. ) and how massive are we talking about here?

@darkdefender: Well the B1s n to an extent B2s weren't all that bright, so it wouldn't be hard to destroy a whole bunch of them. It's the deadlier droids that would need to be worried about, but yeah...dem's da numbers according to the Clone Wars Campaign Guide.

@wolfrazer: Eh technically speaking even the assassin or deadly droids would be countered by the covies spec ops and stuff, covenant has its own special forces and could easily take out plenty of droids including the heavy hitters as well.

@killerwasp: Was speaking in terms of fighting Clones n such. But yeah, though they would first have to put a dent in a Quadrillion. :P They probably can sure, but not without a ton of loss, some of the droids took unacceptable amounts of troops just to destroy 1, example being the Scorpenek Annihilator Droid.

Ya know it just occurred to me that before the CIS came along, the Galactic Empire had the biggest Army in SW, not even counting Stormtroopers, just regular Army troopers.

@darkdefender:I cannot equalize anything since I cannot do anything with OP.

@killerwasp: It will be funny as it would be probably melee battle lol.

@killerwasp: As i said Numbers at the height for both the Republic and CIS there will be no reinforcements allowed just all the armies show up and do battle.

@wut: Strictly air, space will be used in another battle. The only exception for space at all is the Covenant transports that is it simply because well their all transports.

Also to avoid the clusters the planet is fight to size, per say. The armies are able to move more loosely rather than compacted, its still geonosis just bigger to fit the force. Nothing else changes no gravity changes no heat or days just the size.

Star Wars.

I see all out war battle i knew it

@killerwasp wanna debate? XD

@aressword: Gotcha. Planet scales to fit the amount of men, but the ROB removes the increase in gravity from the sudden increase in planetary mass.

Huh, with that said, Star Wars doesn't have the iron grip on Air like I thought they would. Hmmm. Hmmm. Hmm. I have also, officially, labeled Banshees as helicopters. A slow, maneuverable helicopter.

In which case, this pretty much just comes down to who has the superior infantry and tanks as well as numbers.

@wolfrazer: On Clone numbers, we know there was a million and a quarter from the 2nd movie which just told me Lucas didn't understand scale very well as a million soldiers in a galactic war is... tiny. So, so tiny.

There was that episode in TCW where they wanted to add 5 million clone troopers to the army, but there was a fear of going bankrupt. Seriously though? Five million should not be able to make a galactic republic bankrupt. I believe that bill did get past, so from there, I assume there are at least 6.25 million that doesn't really take into account those that died during the war, but going from TCW, they did seem to be constantly producing clones, so I wouldn't call it far fetched to assume there are at least 10 million if not more. Otherwise it is just... mind boggling confusing as to how in the world they fought a galactic war

@darkdefender: Yea, Clone Wars didn't seem to have a sense of scale. That many droids, I can easily see and believe (Although I would prefer high trillions), but a few million clones? What? Granted, they all came from one planet from a fairly length cloning process, so it would have been better to make them the 'elite' forces while militia and 'normal' soldiers did the bulk of the fighting who would then number in the high billions thus allowing for a more realistic galactic war.

@wut: Well from the TCW Campaign Guide, says only 3 million make up for the Clone Army. There is a + there, so it could probably be greater, with the 3 million just being the base, unless of course the cloning just replaced the lost troops quickly and they were still able to keep the 3 million anyway. Of course you also need to factor in that, the Clone Army had Jedi to support them and better trained troops/equipment and more importantly, the whole war was just one big farce so that Palps could take over.

So it's not that unlikely to assume that the GAR wouldn't be able to fight a galactic war with just 3+ million some odd troops, especially when strings were being pulled from behind it all.

So ARC troopers and assassain droids ftw?