Renfri (Netflix's The Witcher) vs Brienne of Tarth

The fight takes place in the streets of Blaviken where Renfri fought Geralt. They start 20 feet apart, and have only heard of the other through reputation, but that's as far as their knowledge of the other goes. Brienne has a regular steel sword, not Oathkeeper. They are both fighting to kill. This is also Brienne from the television show, not the books.

Round One: Brienne doesn't have armor

Round Two: Brienne has her armor

Renfri stomps.

^^what he said

Renfi stomps hard

She gave a holding back geralt a huge run for his money and nearly won,

Geralt speed and skill is >>>>>beyon anyone in the got verse based on the TV series

Renfri has only one short fight to pick from.

But I'd side with her because of this one fight , she was the only character this whole season that Geralt didn't stomped in 2 seconds flat, even if Geralt held back she still hold her own and even landed a deep torso cut.

Bump

Honestly, I think people are overselling Renfri. Geralt was almost certainly holding back, and aside from Renfri, Netflix Geralt has, thus far, only beaten various kinds of fodder. I don't think that's any better then Brienne plowing through Wights or beating Ser Loras Tyrell. She also fought evenly with Sandor Clegane (albeit Sandor not at his best). Given all that, I don't see how Brienne is any less skilled, and she also has the advantage of better protection.

Chucking the knife on the other side of her sword to hit Geralt is enough for me to say she's way more skilled honestly.

Brienne. Geralt was probably holding back way too much in their fight.

@buildhare: Eh, I don't think throwing a knife is better then legitimately out-dueling someone. And remember, this is Netflix Geralt, who is (at least right now), nowhere near as skilled of a swordsman feat-wise as his book and game counterparts. Aside from Renfri, he's only ever dueled fodder. Brienne's done that too, plus beating and holding her own against people with feats of their own.

Renfri was stated to be capable of defeating any man. She was considered some kind of mutant, like Geralt.

Geralt was holding back, but he still has skightly better apeed than anyone in GOT has shown. Renfri is the same. She mostly lost out due to strength and skill.

Biggest issue here is actually the gear. Brienne's armor should be able to tank glanching slashes and the knife. That limits Renfri's options.

Tough fight. Renfri is basically a slightly faster Aria with better gear and strength.

Brienne wasn't going for the kill against Arya, it was clearly sparring.

Briennes armor is way better, slashes will do little to nothing against her.

Brienne is also way more of a brutal sword fighter, biting/h2h/even using rocks anything she can get her hands on

Brienne will dominate. Geralt was clearly doing everything in his power not to outright kill Renfri:

Had he not been emotionally invested, Geralt would've ended the fight in 10 seconds flat, immediately throwing her against the wall and placing her in a position where he could end the fight but choosing not to do so. It would likely have been over sooner if he'd taken an offensive position and not gone on the defence (again because he was clearly holding back).

He does this repeatedly, he wants to give her a way out, she only lasts and lands her strikes because he is pausing in instances where he would normally end the fight. She shanks him and even wounded he could've ended it again 10 seconds later. But he gives her another reprieve. Then he disarms her and gives her another.

Basically I don't think there was any parity between Renfri and Geralt at all.

So her fight with Geralt really isn't putting her on the level of Brienne in my opinion. Brienne is somebody far stronger and better equipped (most of Brienne's body is going to tank slashes and even piercing attacks from Renfri's weapons while Brienne can oneshot and has drastically superior range) than she is who is skilled enough to fodderise two knights/kingsguard in under 10 seconds and 3 soldiers in half the time.

@rogueshadow: Props to you, sir. You said it better then I could. Like I said, I think people are really overselling Renfri. I'd put her below most of the best LotR movie fighters too to be honest.

1. Renfri. It would be basically a repeat from Brienne vs Arya, except Renfri is more experienced than Arya, she wouldn't hold back, and Brienne wouldn't have her armor.
2. Could go either way.

I don't think there's much reason to believe Arya and Renfri are of a level to be honest, even stylistically, Arya's completely different than her, she is significantly more defensive/evasive than Renfri and her water dancing is closer to fencing. But even dismissing those points, the more I've watched the fight, the more I'm of the firm belief that Brienne was drastically superior to Arya in pure swordplay.

Brienne was blatantly holding back on her for the first couple of waves, so their fight doesn't really become pertinent until Brienne realised Arya wasn't a weak child and both combatants were similarly serious, at which point, Brienne disarmed her in around 10 seconds:

And even after this, Brienne opts to pause, something she isn't realistically going to do in a fight to the death, and then to grab her hand with the knife in it, again, something she isn't realistically going to do in a fight to the death.

Brienne >>> Arya in my opinion.

I'm really not seeing Renfri winning this. I honestly think Brienne will mob her, and Geralt would've too if he had actually wanted to kill her.

The fight scenes in this show look great.

@anthp2000: They are. But then, the show in general is pretty good. Much better then a lot of the critics gave it credit for, to be honest.

@rogueshadow: Once again, you sum it up perfectly. Brienne needs more respect.

@rogueshadow:

Had he not been emotionally invested, Geralt would've ended the fight in 10 seconds flat, immediately throwing her against the wall and placing her in a position where he could end the fight but choosing not to do so. It would likely have been over sooner if he'd taken an offensive position and not gone on the defence (again because he was clearly holding back).

I feel like everyone already knows this, that doesn't really mean a lot when we're basing it on visuals. They showcased far greater skill in that two minute fight than all of Brienne's honestly.

@buildhare: Hence why you shouldn't base it solely on visuals. And honestly, they didn't display more skill in those two minutes. Having a prettier fighting style doesn't actually make you better. Geralt's taking down Cintran soldiers and random thugs is not better then everything Brienne has done, and Renfri losing to Geralt when he was holding back is not enough to suggest she's superior to Brienne.

When we have one feat to go off and choreography like that we can and should use it. Otherwise don't even bother using the character in threads.

Geralt slaughtering her gang is absolutely miles better than anything Brienne did.

Visuals/choreography shouldn't be the sole consideration. And even then I think Renfri has more dexterity and quickness than skill per se. Brienne is highly skilled in the application of her attributes and equipment, just as Renfri is in hers, Renfri is just more of a nightblade type which makes for better spectacle.

Purely based on watching them visually I can see why one might argue Renfri is well equipped to beat an armourless Brienne, even if I disagree, but I still don't see a scenario where she doesn't get done in by Brienne with her armour on. Renfri would need to be significantly more impressive to do so for my money.

What? I don't think Renfiri has done anything at all. She lost to Geralt who was heavily holding back, and that was it.

That is a false premise. Choreography is irrelevant, which is something I've been trying to argue for years now. How pretty your fighting style is isn't what determines your skill.

And no it isn't. It is not better then Brienne carving through much larger numbers of Wights, or beating or holding her own against credible swordsmen like Loras Tyrell and Sandor Clegane (the latter of whom has taken down fodder just as easily as Geralt has).

I honestly don't think they should be considered at all. Results>aesthetics. Spinning around like a ballerina or doing superfluous sword twirling or backflips doesn't make one a better fighter. That's the same fallacy people on this site have always used to lowball some characters and shamelessly wank others.

I'll go brienne losing a a holding back geralt isn't enough to put her solidly above brienne who is a great fighter in her own right

Brienne is a great warrior, and Renfri was surprisingly good. I'm a fan of both series, I just can't decide.

@shroudofsorrow:

That is a false premise. Choreography is irrelevant, which is something I've been trying to argue for years now. How pretty your fighting style is isn't what determines your skill.

That's depressing for you then, you've spent years arguing we should ignore visuals in a primarily visual medium.

And no it isn't. It is not better then Brienne carving through much larger numbers of Wights,

Yeah man she did great against the Wights, not instantly dogpiled and stomped at all.

or beating or holding her own against credible swordsmen like Loras Tyrell

Loras's only feat in the show is losing to Brienne and apparently being an okay tournament knight, this is the opposite of notable.

and Sandor Clegane (the latter of whom has taken down fodder just as easily as Geralt has).

1. Brienne took on a sick dog of a Hound, not him at his best, and still nearly lost.
2. That's completely untrue, he's beaten small groups (i.e 3) quickly a few times but never with that level of effort (or lack thereof. They are not peers in any sense. The bar fight is a great example.

Renfri

game of thrones blows. brienne was a walkingteleporting plot device for the stark children, nothing more. she won fights she had no right winning.

geralt holding back > 99.9% of anyone brienne ever faced.

R1: renfri stomps

R2: armor + no neck feats = renfri stomps

Smh. GoT characters are so lowballed. Brienne should take this

Renfri definitely gets some scaling from Geralt because he couldn't incapacitate her without killing. Though I don't remember Geralt doing anything more impressive than beating 2 of Renly's Kingsguard at once...

@bladeoffury: Geralt is incredibly overrated here. He has little to no skill feats. Heck, Ned's feat against Kingsguard is better than anything from Geralt.

Renfri win round one, the one without armours, shes just what Arya wants to be when she grow up and seem visibly more skilled than Brienne.

Briene have however the first chance to win the second round, she is skilled enough to take advantage of her superior armour

Lmfao get out of here.

Geralt was mach 0.4 reaction timer. Had superhuman tier physicals that allowed him to eventually crush absolute mutants like the Striga/Kikimora and was a expert user of signs. More specifically signs like Aard that where capable of small building tier potency.

Even holding back, Geralt couldn't put Renfri down without actually killing her. First trying with Axii sign (Jedi Mind Trick) then physically. That holds huge weight to just how skilled she was.

Are you talking about Jaime? Cause... He has even less feats. His best feat is killing 10 fodder northerners before being captured, and that was offscreen.

Do you really think Geralt wouldn't kill considerably more then 10 if put in the same situation? He walked through 8, in similar gear as northerners wear, like they were nothing, without armor.

@d2therj: I'd rather not.

Also, none of the things you mentioned has anything to do with Geralt's skill, but alright.

Video?

What are you even talking about. Nothing to do with Geralt's skill? No Skill feats..

He's an grandmaster tier swordsman, subsonic mach tier reaction timer with superhuman tier physicals.

He defeated the mythical Kikimora, and crushed the Striga that was speed-blitzing other witchers and humans alike. There also numerous other scenes of him casually humiliating all sorts of sword wielding opponents from fodder up to actual expert tier mercenaries. All the same.

You unironically said Ned stark killing some guards was more impressive than all of Geralt's showings. Don't be in your feelings cause that 2 minutes of Choreography was better than 99% of the showings in 8 seasons of GoT.

It's literally in the first 10mins of episode 1. Have you even watched the series?

I never got past the GoT pilot but is beating 2 Kingsguard supposed to be more impressive than this?

I can't picture anyone sans Arthur Dayne even remotely competing with Geralt in a sword fight. A minute or so before he fought Renfri he had the speed and dexterity to hack a crossbow bolt in the middle of a fighting 2 Northerners.

@ubercoffeetime: Since 1 Kingsguard beat someone who stomped 4 Lannister soldiers at once, I’d say it is.

Though an argument could be made by scaling Renfri from supersonic sword slashes somehow...

When? Also it was a standard Kingsguard?

How did you get supersonic from something less than 1/4 its speed. Also the fodder in that scene could parry a strike...does that make them supersonic?

Are you talking about Meryn Trant? Are you conveniently leaving out that Syrio Forel had a wooden sword and no armor, against a fully armored kingsguard?

Lannister soldiers are fodder. Meryn Trant, is also fodder. He has, on many occasions, been referred to as a terrible fighter.

Literal quotes:

"Any boy whore with a sword could beat three Meryn Trants".

"Your friends dead. Meryn Trants not. Cause Trant had armor, and a big f*##ing sword".

"You're a grub in fancy armor who's better at beating little girls than fighting men."

"Who does Cersei plan on naming as her champion? I hope it's Ser Meryn Trant. I'd enjoy watching Bronn disembowel that pompous child beater."

Kingsguard of this time were mostly political appointees. They were some pretty terrible fighters. Barristan Selmy once remarked that, even at his age, he could cut through all of them like carving a cake. This was later proven true when The Hound literally fodderized four of them... in 7 seconds.

Meryn Trant was also visibly scared of Bronn, who while a skilled fighter, no one there knew what he could do.

@ubercoffeetime:

This was a named character, but he was just a regular Kingsguard, and was often made fun of for his poor combat skills. Example:

- Meryn Trant. The greatest swordsman who ever lived killed by Meryn fucking Trant.

- He was outnumbered.

- Any boy whore with a sword can beat 3 Meryn Trants.

You get supersonic from something less that 1/4th its speed by moving over 4 times faster than it. The gang's leader who parried his sword slash makes it debatable, but there's still an argument to be made.

@Aristeaus:

Are you talking about Meryn Trant? Are you conveniently leaving out that Syrio Forel had a wooden sword and no armor, against a fully armored kingsguard?

It doesn't matter because Syrio used that same wooden sword to stomp 4 Lannister soldiers at once.

Lannister soldiers are fodder. Meryn Trant, is also fodder. He has, on many occasions, been referred to as a terrible fighter

by the Hound, one of the best fighters in the series who can fodderize 4 Kinsguards in quick succession.

Kingsguard were mostly political appointees. They were some pretty terrible fighters.

Someone who can beat someone who stomped 4 soldiers without getting tagged, making them hit each is far from a terrible fighter to anyone who isn't even better.

Barristan Selmy once remarked that, even at his age, he could cut through all of them like carving a cake.

Ah yes, Barristan Selmy, the second best fighter in the series.

Meryn Trant was also visibly scared of Bronn, who while a skilled fighter, no one there knew what he could do.

"You put your hand on that door, you lose the hand." - Meryn Trant to Bronn as he reached for his sword. Get outta here

Uhh, what?

Geralt was holding back, entirely on the defensive and gave Renfri 3 chances to give up.

Brienne is in the top 10 fighters in the GOT TV Show. Any one of them could give Geralts spinny spins a run for his money.

@bladeoffury: Speaking as someone who's never seen the episode this seems to be a case of a bigger, stronger opponent with much better gear capitalizing on those advantages against an opponent who's only advantage could be argued as dexterity and skill.

The guards Syrio and Brienne beat were smaller in stature and can't use those advantages as a result. Adding more of them isn't going to lead to each individual one strong enough to overpower his grip on the sword nor is it gonna make them any smarter. Merlyn seemed to be the only guy smart and creative enough to treat the Wooden sword like it was actually wooden instead of those soldiers who seem to fight him just as they would anyone wielding steel