Rematch: Post Crisis Superman vs HP Doomsday

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#1 Edited by Kirkseven (3632 posts) - - Show Bio
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VS

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  • Superman is fully bloodlusted while Doomsday is in character
  • Assume it's the Superman we see at the end of the Post Crisis era (after his OWAW training and such) and not the less expirienced one from the Hunter Prey story.
  • battle takes place on a deserted earth
  • (edited) win by death only. no bfr.
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#2 Posted by TifaLockhart (21473 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman due to BFR.

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#3 Posted by kalkent (3763 posts) - - Show Bio

Based off of pips hp debunking Superman should stomp him.

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#4 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (6017 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn’t DD “in character” basically bloodlust?

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#5 Posted by termiteone4ever (13142 posts) - - Show Bio

Still DD

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#6 Posted by Aversionofthee (116 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman beats him down tbh, worst case scenario he has to BFR him, but i don't see Superman losing.

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#7 Posted by EternalDarkFury (3428 posts) - - Show Bio

Doomsday

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#8 Posted by Kirkseven (3632 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by baph (2931 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman stomps

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#10 Posted by Supermanfan1938 (1055 posts) - - Show Bio

BFR wins

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#11 Posted by Son_of_Mori-jin (841 posts) - - Show Bio

Can someone please explain how superman stomps one of the strongest version of DD?

OT: I still bacc Doomsday he clowned supes and darkseid in thia form

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#12 Posted by LightingJack (1712 posts) - - Show Bio

Doomsday

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#13 Posted by LightingJack (1712 posts) - - Show Bio

@kirkseven: I know it's a way of win

But you should remove bfr

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#14 Posted by Kirkseven (3632 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by Pipxeroth (9807 posts) - - Show Bio

Clark stomps at his consistent levels

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#16 Posted by TakenStew22 (5780 posts) - - Show Bio

Idk how Superman's gonna win without BFR.

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#17 Posted by LightingJack (1712 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by ITouchedTheBoat (3754 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I don't see how Clark wins considering HP Doomsday was pretty much wreaking havoc and beating the crap out of everything in his path.

Superman would definitely put up a better fight than he did last time, but there's no way in hell he's winning.

Is post OWAW Superman really considered a team-buster to you guys? I don't think his power boost was that significant

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#19 Edited by Hellespont (297 posts) - - Show Bio

Doomsday handily.

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#20 Posted by King-Ragnar (5157 posts) - - Show Bio

HP Doomsday beat true form Darkseid. That's an outversal feat right there.

Gg no re

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#21 Posted by Kirkseven (3632 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by eri123 (6922 posts) - - Show Bio

Doomsday.

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#23 Posted by 20damon (6564 posts) - - Show Bio

@kalkent said:

Based off of pips hp debunking Superman should stomp him.

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#24 Edited by AbstractRaze (3233 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman was empowered by the mother-box at that point, many say that Doomsday defeated one of the strongest avatars of Darkseid, but in reality, according to the writer, it was the real Darkseid.

The whole thing is ambiguous, but last finally, I side for the poet & Icon of death and desolation, Doomsday.

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#25 Posted by CaptainSweatpan (3085 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do people think Doomsday loses here?

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#26 Posted by kalkent (3763 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do people think Doomsday loses here?

Because Pip showed how garbage he is and that Superman's consistent Post-Crisis feats dwarf his.

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#27 Posted by TheHercules (1350 posts) - - Show Bio

Who is pip, and do you have the link of this? I'd like to see that. I believe PC Superman would win as well.

@kalkent said:
said:

Why do people think Doomsday loses here?

Because Pip showed how garbage he is and that Superman's consistent Post-Crisis feats dwarf his.

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#28 Edited by TheHercules (1350 posts) - - Show Bio

Doomsday is not really stronger than Superman, his Adaptation is what really make him defeat Superman eventually. but if is Superman go all out since the beggining he wins against DOS Doomsday, and maybe defeats HP Doomsday as well

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#29 Posted by CaptainSweatpan (3085 posts) - - Show Bio

@kalkent: isn't stomping Superman the only feat DD needs here?

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#30 Posted by kalkent (3763 posts) - - Show Bio

isn't stomping Superman the only feat DD needs here?

That version of Superman was consistently mid tier before he was amped. That is nothing impressive. Wasn't that version of Superman floored by an explosion a million more times powerful than a nuke?

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#31 Posted by CaptainSweatpan (3085 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by DarkHoudini (574 posts) - - Show Bio

Jurgens himself stated that even HP Doomsday wasn't actually more powerful than Superman just way more savage, it was Superman's morals and tendency to hold back that made him lose the fight, not his lack of power (according to him). So a canonically more powerful version of Supes should logically take it.

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#33 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12277 posts) - - Show Bio

Jurgens himself stated that even HP Doomsday wasn't actually more powerful than Superman just way more savage, it was Superman's morals and tendency to hold back that made him lose the fight, not his lack of power (according to him). So a canonically more powerful version of Supes should logically take it.

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#34 Edited by CaptainSweatpan (3085 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Doomsday not being more powerful than a mid tier Superman and him losing to Superman at his latter Post Crisis levels also tell us that Darkseid isn't at the level people always try putting him at since Doomsday effortlessly stomped him?

And this means Superman giving Darkseid issues and sometimes beating him isn't PIS?

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#35 Edited by AbstractRaze (3233 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkhoudini said:

Jurgens himself stated that even HP Doomsday wasn't actually more powerful than Superman just way more savage, it was Superman's morals and tendency to hold back that made him lose the fight, not his lack of power (according to him). So a canonically more powerful version of Supes should logically take it.

No, it was only implied that Doomsday could regress if he becomes rational, but it is only a supposition by Jurgen, not even he, knows it with exactitude, but that was his tendency of thinking about Doomsday, Superman is Superman, he is no really different than a human, Doomsday has its own niche, he's himself.

Jurgen:

I think there was every argument to be made -- and this is my argument -- that if he had intelligence, he would be regressing. He has one purpose, which is to survive against all else. If you are a force of nature -- you are the wind, you are a hurricane, you are a tornado, whatever, you are an earthquake -- your chances for survival are better than if you all of a sudden have to reason, and think things out, and go through the process of, "Should I do this or not?" Because then you start to theoretically introduce the concept of choice, and perhaps backed up by some sense of morality. That at that point, does Doomsday become a lesser, weaker creature?

Doomsday is Jurgen's and DC's Golden boy, they could have got rid of him, but Doomsday's presence was too intense, even for the writers, no one kills Superman for free.

Russ Burlingame:

Doomsday became a character who was immediately wildly popular, so you could really get rid of him permanently. For a while, though, you guys managed to make it special whenever he showed up. Do you feel like giving it a sense of finality every time and putting him in increasingly absurd situations for him to get out of helped build a contract with the reader who realized there's no way you can put him in a zoo in the Fortress because eventually that'd never work?

Jurgen:

Right. That is correct. Some of that is, "Okay, so if we put him..." -- because I think this was one of them -- "...there's there's a transporter booth on the moon, and we put him in the transporter booth, where he's never fully materialized, or always stuck in mid transportation, never fully integrated, things like that. Yeah, some of it is you always have to find that next way that Doomsday is imprisoned that he can "never get out of" and that's fun for the readers. I also think from a writing standpoint, it's fun to have to come up with those things too because I know when I was a kid reading comics, I would always get frustrated when I would see a bad guy imprisoned, locked away, whatever, in what looked like a very final way, and then all of a sudden he would show up and they would never explain how he got out of the trap or whatever. "Geez, last time I saw him, he fell off a bridge and he was dead, and you didn't explain that." That always frustrated me as a reader. It's a way to challenge the next writer.

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#36 Posted by Supermanforever (9820 posts) - - Show Bio

doomsday stomped jl in doomsday wars that had members like wally, wonder woman, martian manhunter, kyle rayner, orion in matter of seconds and then was giving beat down to Clark.

Doomsday would beat him down again if they faced.

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#37 Posted by Supermanforever (9820 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkhoudini said:

Jurgens himself stated that even HP Doomsday wasn't actually more powerful than Superman just way more savage, it was Superman's morals and tendency to hold back that made him lose the fight, not his lack of power (according to him). So a canonically more powerful version of Supes should logically take it.

I think Jurgens is contradicting himself. I mean in HP, clark was amped with motherbox and was still getting stomped and i wouldnt say he was holding back. He was trying his best.

Also doomsday wars feats of doomsday was just outright ridiculous.

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#38 Posted by DarkHoudini (574 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanforever: Doomsday Wars DD was more even more powerful than HP DD according to the comics.

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#39 Posted by Supermanforever (9820 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanforever: Doomsday Wars DD was more even more powerful than HP DD according to the comics.

true, but it was the same doomsday was that was sent to the end of time. Brainiac just pulled him back from the end of time.He might have been slightly more powerfull, but dont think the gap was much big. Because clark could hold of a while.

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#40 Posted by DarkHoudini (574 posts) - - Show Bio

@abstractraze: I'm talking about a different interview where Jurgens straight up said that DD and Clark were roughly equals. It's pretty popular but I'd have to look for it if you really want it.

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#41 Posted by DarkHoudini (574 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanforever: And HP doomsday was the same as DOS Doomsday, that doesn't prove all that much... I'm just saying using Doomsday Wars DD isn't really right since he was confirmed as stronger.

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#42 Edited by Supermanforever (9820 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkhoudini said:

@abstractraze: I'm talking about a different interview where Jurgens straight up said that DD and Clark were roughly equals. It's pretty popular but I'd have to look for it if you really want it.

I think that was the point of doomsday when it was first released. But later with more and more issues, they started to make doomsday even more overpowered and make it look like Doomsday is overly superior to Clark.

But in DOS they were pretty much equals and one might argue that Clark was at disadvanatge, because he was saving civilians and tried to move the battle.

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#43 Edited by AbstractRaze (3233 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanforever said:
@darkhoudini said:

@supermanforever: Doomsday Wars DD was more even more powerful than HP DD according to the comics.

true, but it was the same doomsday was that was sent to the end of time. Brainiac just pulled him back from the end of time.He might have been slightly more powerfull, but dont think the gap was much big. Because clark could hold of a while.

To consider that Doomsday survived the end of time... if there is some DC writer willing to get rid of Doomsday, he is clearly doomed and hopeless, Doomsday is virtually unkillable, both existentially and on top of that, he has tons of plot armor because the writers won't get rid of a foe, who killed Superman for the first time, that's like saying that any random asspull can kill Superman... in fact, Doomsday is Superman's nemesis, it's beyond absurd, surviving the end of time is far more deadly than the singularity of a black hole, or the Speedforce dimension.

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#44 Posted by BrainDrain (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

DD litterally oneshots. Stop this superman wank.

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#45 Edited by Kirkseven (3632 posts) - - Show Bio

@kalkent said:
@captainsweatpan said:

isn't stomping Superman the only feat DD needs here?

That version of Superman was consistently mid tier before he was amped. That is nothing impressive. Wasn't that version of Superman floored by an explosion a million more times powerful than a nuke?

The explosion equal to 1 million nukes failed to kill a crippled Superman with broken limbs, numerous stab wounds, and all while on the verge of blacking out from DDs venom.

That situation would kill most if not all mid tiers. Hell, even guys like Hulk have been blown back by things on that level before.

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#46 Posted by TakenStew22 (5780 posts) - - Show Bio

DD litterally oneshots. Stop this superman wank.

I agree DD wins but how is he oneshotting?

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#47 Posted by KanyeCosby (7561 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn’t Doomsday already beat the Justice League which included Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Orion?

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#48 Edited by TakenStew22 (5780 posts) - - Show Bio

@kanyecosby said:

Didn’t Doomsday already beat the Justice League which included Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Orion?

Well that was in Doomsday Wars. I don't know if that version of DD is stronger than HP DD.

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#49 Posted by Kirkseven (3632 posts) - - Show Bio
@kanyecosby said:

Didn’t Doomsday already beat the Justice League which included Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Orion?

Well that was in Doomsday Wars. I don't know if that version of DD is stronger than HP DD.

Kind of? He never actually died at the end of HP, so he's still kind of the same version, but with more feats.

Anything between the end of DoS and DD getting hit by the big bang laser is generally considered to be ''the HP version''

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#50 Posted by X_SuperKal-El_X (103 posts) - - Show Bio

Doomsday