Red Hood Vs Snake Eyes(Melee Battle)

Rules:

• Each Armed With A Steel Katana
• No All Blades Or Venom For Jason
• No Knowledge, Random Encounter Style
• Moral On/In Character
• Battlefield: DeSoto Caverns
• Post Crisis & New 52 Feats

Snake-Eyes is faster and more skilled with a blade, so him.

I'm gonna go with the one that landed pressure points on Shiva, beat Ra's all Ghul in a sword fight, and practically toyed with Batman in UtRH.

@frisky4: @allstarsuperman:

Jason still hasn't blocked automatic fire with a sword.

Isn't Snake Eyes ridiculously fast? Like being able to block automatic gunfire fast? I'm not the most knowledgeable on Snake Eyes, but from what I've heard, he may be too fast for Jason.

Yup. He can even catch an arrow being fired at him without noticing.

@comicace3: That's a good feat, but nothing too impressive. On the other hand, blocking 5 bullets coming from automatic rifles is very impressive.

Snake

My money is on Snake

@lukehero: Well first off is this Marvel or IDW Snake Eyes?

Reaction feats aren't everything. Electra has better reaction feats then Wolverine, Batman, and even Daredevil (in some ways) yet they'd all beat her. Batman has punched bullets out of the air and Red Hood has out paced him in a fight several times. He outpaced Shiva so fast he stomped her. And this Shiva was beating on Nightwing, who is said to be slightly faster then Batman. Tim Drake has effortlessly caught multiple arrows out of the air at once, yet that doesn't stop Jason from destroying him in a fight.

Who has Snake actually beat that proves he can take Red Hood?

Storm Shadow. But they go back and forth.

Storm Shadow. In all the times I've seen them fight they've been either on par with each other or trade wins back and forth. IDW Snake has an actual feat of disappearing from a firing squad while they were all looking at him and firing at the same time, yet he was behind them before anyone knew it.

And lets not forget the stipulations of the fight. Each have a steel kitana. Snake is far more skilled with a sword than Jason is.

The guy who was trained by batman

@frisky4: @allstarsuperman: IDW.

@comicace3: @micah: storm shadows only feats are constantly losing to Snake. There's no way to say Storm Shadow > Jason.

@micah: @comicace3: Storm Shadows only good feats are against cannon fodder. His only feats versus people with skill is constantly losing to Snake Eyes. There's no way to prove Storm > Jason.

Also Snake is not a better swordsmen unless you can actually prove it. As I already said Jason beat Ra's in a sword fight and he one shotted Shiva when Shiva had swords and he was weaponless.

@allstarsuperman: Comicvine appears to be eating comments but regardless I got your reply. Storm Shadow has plenty of decent feats. Here's one of him casually walking through gunfire for starters, then cutting down several gunmen in one speedblitz. Cannon Fodder or not this feat is still solid.

@micah: that's against fodder. Jason easily dodges machine gun fire as well. And he beats on Nightwing and Batman who have dodged from Deadshot and Slade.

@lukehero: has IDW deflected bullets? Cause I'm sure that scan posted earlier is marvel.

As I said in my edit fodder or not that's still a solid feat. Here we have him doing this? Would you say this feat would be more impressive if the taser was in the hands of Lady Shiva?

@allstarsuperman: It looks like an Old Marvel Scan to me. I think he can react to bullets: block them? Ehhh. I don't think so.

I'm going with Snake.

@micah: tasers are nowhere near bullet speed, that's honeslh not that impressive. And no Lady Shiva doesn't use guns, so it wouldn't mean anything. If it was Deathstroke shooting, then yes it would be more impressive.

This is just ridiculous people voting for Snake "cuz he kool".

@allstarsuperman: He is cool though :D

@lukehero: yes he is, but not cooler then Jason.

I'm going to go with the one who hasn't got a bunch of one time PIS feats.

That's not the point. Point is we can't discount every feat that might involve fodder and not some famous character. I highly doubt all the gunmen in the first image I posted are incompetent fools. Not saying you said that, but hopefully you get my point.

To address your Deathstroke statement is this feat not impressive since Deathstroke isn't the one shooting?

@allstarsuperman: I think I like Snake's costume more.

That doesn't even make sense. If he has several showings of being that good, then it can't be PIS.

@allstarsuperman: "a bunch", meaning "many different showings". "one time" as in "many different showings performed once".

@monsterstomp: He's landed pressure points on both Ra's and Shiva. He's blocked and dodged sword strikes from Ras, Shiva, and Green Arrow. Non of those can be considered PIS.

Jason has lost to Nightwing more than won, beat a near featless Shiva and Ra's has never really been anything impressive, pre or new 52.

Snake Eyes has beaten fellow Joe's in fights, all established characters that aren't jobbers, and Storm Shadow who has likewise caused fits for members of the Joes.

Jason is just too all over, there's no consistency. All things being equal though Snake is the better fighter and better swordsman. However his feats never get weighted the same as a Marvel or DC character because he isn't a big 2.

They seem to be pretty even and he wins on some special occasion beside, correct me if I'm wrong I belive the questions was "Who has Snake actually beat that proves he can take Red Hood?"

I never implied Storm Shadow can beat Jason, I just believe that its would be an interesting fight to behold.

I can easily bombard you with scans of feats to prove SE is a better swordsman give he has more feats but lets take a more logical approach shall we? If you are referring to Red Hood and Outlasw issue 27 where he fights Ra's its a very poor argument to be honest. There was only one, possibly two instances where he used his all blades and even then it was used for defensive measures. If you are referring to another incident, then I ask you this. How good is Ra's in a sword fight? He may have had hundreds of years of practice but frankly statements don't actually mean feats. Also judging by the sword Ra's uses he obviously has a very European fighting style in sword combat, not bad, but the level of skill and accuracy needed far Kitana's is far more deadly when it comes to close quarter combat. Snake Eyes has perfected his level of training with his kitana so much so he has consistently deflected bullets and has even cut down superhuman robots (with the help of SS mind you) but still impressive to say nonetheless. Allstar as an experienced debator you should already know ABC logic isn't going to get you anywhere. He may have one shotted shiva, whom I may add has been nerfed and is featless compared to her pre-52 counter part ( that or Jason one shotting her is PIS), and beat Ra's, who doesn't hae any good showing at all, in a sword fight, a very short one, but his level of skill in sword fighting is pale in comparison to Snake Eye and making arguments like those just goes to show you how little you know about the character.

Ra's has always been a lacking combatant, so I fail to see why that would be more impressive than Snake besting Storm. Same goes for Green Arrow. Shiva, by name, its impressive, by feats, its not.

Snake Eyes. All because this hasn't happened to him:

Snake Eyes, and most of Jason's RHaTO feats are PIS.

Not true in the slightest. Nightwing has never beaten Jason. Even BftC can't be considered a win. Being BFRd do to the environment is not proof of Grayson being a better fighter. Jason already won that fight before it started anyway, with that taser trap.

Wrong, New 52 Shiva has beaten Batman and Grayson Robin at the same time. Before you try to pull the "they were inexperienced" card, the same could be said for Shiva. Shes toyed around with current day Nightwing. Ya know, the same one that stalemated Batman? And she's the number one assassin in the League. Cheshire the number 2 assassin, who took out Arsenal, Green Arrow, and Starfire at once. Said she wouldn't dare fight Shiva. Shiva has also killed 10 manbats with a single throwing star.

Yeah, cause constantly stalemating Batman and the occasional loss (under Loeb) makes him real unimpressive... Not.

Prove it. So far the only thing shown is Snake > Storm Shadow, we have no scale of how good either really is? Is there feats of soloing ninja armies? Pressure points being used on skilled characters? So far, there isn't.

No, let's take the "illogical" approach and actually prove what youre saying? Cause as of right now you are trying to "debunk" Jason's feats while showing nothing impressive for Snake.

Umm, way? Jason's only used his blades twice? That's a joke. He only used then to killed an Untitled in issues 5-7, to slaughter Untitleds in the hundreds in 25-26, to defeat Was who had his own All blades in 27, to have apart fodder robots in 28, to fight normal Gotham goons and space aliens on war world in Batman/Superman Annual 1. Yeah its a very rare occasion for Jason to use the all blades, not.

Good enough to invent his own methods and repeatably stalemate Batman. a better feat then either Snake or Storm are capable of.

And Jason has killed Captain Nazi (who is black adam level), defeated Brick, and took swveral punches from Crux (who over powered Starfire).

Allstar as an experienced debator you should already know ABC logic isn't going to get you anywhere. He may have one shotted shiva, whom I may add has been nerfed and is featless compared to her pre-52 counter part ( that or Jason one shotting her is PIS), and beat Ra's, who doesn't hae any good showing at all, in a sword fight, a very short one, but his level of skill in sword fighting is pale in comparison to Snake Eye and making arguments like those just goes to show you how little you know about the character.

And why the hell are you talking to me like I'm an idiot?

No she hasn't been nerfed in the slightest. Considering she still beats Nightwing and Batman who retain old feats.

Oh so its PIS. That's a very convenient way of saying Snake Eyes has no feats on that level.

You have literally given no feats for Snake and his sword skill, yet I'm supposed to bow down and say he's better the Ra's? Who has stalemated Batman? Yeah no.

And you must no little about Jason or the Bat Family or the DCU in general if youre only way of proving Snake is to down play Jason and his opponents.

@allstarsuperman: Jason doesn't come close to Dick as a fighter by feats. He always has writers boosting him so it at least seems close. He doesn't have a chance against Dick in a straight up fight.

>:)

is snake eyes' body more durable than a submarine, no? then jason one shots :p

@granitesoldier: prove it. Grayson knows pressure points? Jason actually uses them on skilled characters. Grayson has some cool gear? Jason actually uses gear on skilled characters.

If Jason fought Grayson without morals he'd kill him. He's had the opportunity too numerous times.

Idk but apparently the bat family has a thing for low blows.

Bump

@allstarsuperman:

@allstarsuperman said:

@granitesoldier said:

• Jason has lost to Nightwing more than won
• beat a near featless Shiva
• Ra's has never really been anything impressive, pre or new 52.

• Snake is the better fighter and better swordsman.

Not true in the slightest. Nightwing has never beaten Jason. Even BftC can't be considered a win. Being BFRd do to the environment is not proof of Grayson being a better fighter. Jason already won that fight before it started anyway, with that taser trap.

Wrong, New 52 Shiva has beaten Batman and Grayson Robin at the same time. Before you try to pull the "they were inexperienced" card, the same could be said for Shiva. Shes toyed around with current day Nightwing. Ya know, the same one that stalemated Batman? And she's the number one assassin in the League. Cheshire the number 2 assassin, who took out Arsenal, Green Arrow, and Starfire at once. Said she wouldn't dare fight Shiva. Shiva has also killed 10 manbats with a single throwing star.

Yeah, cause constantly stalemating Batman and the occasional loss (under Loeb) makes him real unimpressive... Not.

Prove it. So far the only thing shown is Snake > Storm Shadow, we have no scale of how good either really is? Is there feats of soloing ninja armies? Pressure points being used on skilled characters? So far, there isn't.

@comicace3 said:

I can easily bombard you with scans of feats to prove SE is a better swordsman give he has more feats but lets take a more logical approach shall we?

There was only one, possibly two instances where he used his all blades and even then it was used for defensive measures.

How good is Ra's in a sword fight?

Snake Eyes has perfected his level of training with his kitana so much so he has consistently deflected bullets and has even cut down superhuman robots (with the help of SS mind you) but still impressive to say nonetheless.

No, let's take the "illogical" approach and actually prove what youre saying? Cause as of right now you are trying to "debunk" Jason's feats while showing nothing impressive for Snake.

Umm, way? Jason's only used his blades twice? That's a joke. He only used then to killed an Untitled in issues 5-7, to slaughter Untitleds in the hundreds in 25-26, to defeat Was who had his own All blades in 27, to have apart fodder robots in 28, to fight normal Gotham goons and space aliens on war world in Batman/Superman Annual 1. Yeah its a very rare occasion for Jason to use the all blades, not.

Good enough to invent his own methods and repeatably stalemate Batman. a better feat then either Snake or Storm are capable of.

And Jason has killed Captain Nazi (who is black adam level), defeated Brick, and took swveral punches from Crux (who over powered Starfire).

Allstar as an experienced debator you should already know ABC logic isn't going to get you anywhere. He may have one shotted shiva, whom I may add has been nerfed and is featless compared to her pre-52 counter part ( that or Jason one shotting her is PIS), and beat Ra's, who doesn't hae any good showing at all, in a sword fight, a very short one, but his level of skill in sword fighting is pale in comparison to Snake Eye and making arguments like those just goes to show you how little you know about the character.

And why the hell are you talking to me like I'm an idiot?

No she hasn't been nerfed in the slightest. Considering she still beats Nightwing and Batman who retain old feats.

Oh so its PIS. That's a very convenient way of saying Snake Eyes has no feats on that level.

You have literally given no feats for Snake and his sword skill, yet I'm supposed to bow down and say he's better the Ra's? Who has stalemated Batman? Yeah no.

And you must no little about Jason or the Bat Family or the DCU in general if youre only way of proving Snake is to down play Jason and his opponents.

@spinnercomix said:

Snake Eyes. All because this hasn't happened to him:

I think your missing the point XD. 1. It was a joke and 2. Just because he's done it TO someone, doesn't make a difference.

Funniest scene in the Bat-Family though.

@allstarsuperman: What skilled fighter? There's nothing to say Shiva is anything close to her pre52 counterpart. She also got hit by something she taught Jason to counter someone of her level because she basically laughed at his skill. It's also one showing, nothing consistent. Dick also had broken ribs when he fought Shiva. Dick also recently took Midnighter down and while he isn't on par with his Wildstorm self is no less impressive then Jason and Shiva at the very least. Jason also struggled with one Talon, Dick took on two and won. And before you say 'environment' when is fighting smart a bad thing? Dick restrains himself more than Jason, a factor in every fight. Something I'd say Jason banks on in their fights, and Dick still beat a prepped (and Dick had also been fear gassed and been hit with tranqs if memory serves, not to mention blinded) Jason in BftC with a well timed strike he even claimed he put too much into. Not that Jason being more ruthless matters much when Dick has taken on the likes of Joker and other assorted Bat rogues who never hesitate to kill.

At this point I'm derailing the thread though. New 52 Jason is more impressive than he used to be, I'll give him that.

@granitesoldier:

Jason also struggled with one Talon

He didn't really struggle at all. Talon was running from Jason the whole time and when he caught up the Talon just dropped to his knees and wanted to die.

Jason gets so underplayed sometimes. Anytime you mention a feat from him all you hear is PIS or WIS.

Perhaps he just does those things CONSTANTLY so it has nothing to do with plot or what have you.

Jason is just that good. Just really wanted to point this out.

I don't know enough of Snake Eyes to determine who could win this fight. Been waiting to see some good feats for him but so far nothing I've seen makes me believe he'd be too much trouble for Red Hood, even without his gear here.