@allstarsuperman: I wasn't planning on replying back considering how obnoxious your unnecessary rant was but i seriously can't help myself from calling bullshit when i see it, specially towards someone who thinks so high about himself yet is a freaking joke of an user. That said, let's get to the argument.
Disclaimer: I won't reply back if you do.
No man, it's entirely the same story. Batman beats Daredevil, that is fact. Why does he beat him? Skill and Equipment advantages. Now add this to the fact that Jason has beaten Batman in both skill and equipment, it clearly means he has the ability to beat Daredevil as well.
This is utter bullshit and you're stretching Red Hood's capabilities WAY too much to fit an argument that has an astonishing delusional base to begin with. Jason didn't beat Batman and the 3rd retelling of the story doesn't even compare to the other 2, mainly because the other 2 show Batman almost delivering a finishing move on a Jason that is on the floor whereas the instance in New-52 shows Batman already knowing he's fighting Jason, with Jason putting his foot on Batman's chest. Jason didn't beat Batman and the fact Jason actually knew Batman and what he can do, to the point of Batman himself claiming Jason came prepared with a knife to cut through his armor means Jason had preparation against someone he already knew plenty of his tricks, the same can't be said about Batman because Jason died so much time ago he wasn't expecting Red Hood to be Jason, let alone Jason dying as a Robin with average skill and returning with a lot more knowledge on combat. Either way, NO and with the most unbiased eyes i can get myself to use, NO, Jason did not beat Batman and it's funny because you need to cite the same instance thrice to imply such a flawed point. Batman has WAY better feats against several noteworthy characters and has proven consistently to be the BEST of the Bat Family followed closely by Cassie as far as combat prowess goes.
I'll just throw some up to save us some time.
LMAO. Not only your prediction was completely off, but the fact i don't consider my arguments to be that sloppy and definitive, i think that would suit more to someone like you, considering that's what i'm getting from YOUR arguments. You didn't save any time, i'm going to respond to the bunch of overwanked nonsense you posted here and then some more.
False. Jason isn't actually trying to shoot Bruce. If Jason knows his opponent personally, he won't use his guns against them lethally. He uses then to direct his opponents into traps or just where it would better suit him to engage them in a fight. Tim says so in his solo Robin series.
Daredevil has dodged Punisher's bullets, darts and assault rifle's shooting when he wasn't holding back, considering Punisher would humiliate Jason as far as marksmanship goes, i don't see why Daredevil couldn't do the same, even more so considering bullets have never been an issue for Daredevil and they are by far, the worst jobbers of comics as everyone and their mothers dodge them all the time. I could care less about what Jason is going to do with those guns but i truly hope you're not implying he'll tag someone who can feel the bullets traveling in the air, leaving the muzzle and react accordingly.
False. Jason has never fought Batman with the intention of seriously harming him, let alone killing him. Sure Bruce holds back as well, but only in every other fight but their first encounter, when Batman was unaware it was Jason, and was sick of the games and trying to end the fight. This should be obvious, but at least Lobdell did something right and gave me some proof:
Good, that means Jason is just another street leveler that doesn't want to kill his relatives, should i mention even Wolverine which has an assassin instinct exponentially worse than Jason also holds back against pretty much everybody he knows? Batman wanted to end the fight and was actually about to do it if it wasn't for Jason taking off his mask and Bruce just standing there. Get out with your bias and butthurt, Jason is second to Nightwing and certainly under Bruce as well.
While yes, Matt has faster feats then Jason, and while yes Matt is more agile, Jason is definitely not outclassed. Batman has compared Jason's agility to Grayson's, ya know, the world's greatest acrobat. Grayson is stated multiple times to be faster then Batman himself, yet Jason has tagged him with batarangs, and even outpaced him in their fight (Outsiders 44). Yeah, Murdock does has faster reaction feats, there's nothing i can post for Jason directly to put him on the same level. But what I can do is say Batman is just as fast as Matt, dodging snipers off instinct, blocking machine gun fire off his gauntlets, blitzing a dozen guys (disarming them so fast they down even see him), and despite all this Jason was able to outpace Batman in a fight. Remember? At one point, Jason knees Bruce in the face, cuts off his belt, backfists him across the face, slices his chest open, kicks his chest, and lands an insanely precise cut across Batman's mask so he can rip it off later. Matt is not too fast for Jason.
Nobody said Jason was outclassed, you're the one putting words in my mouth all this time and i don't even understand what you're problem with me, you've been overly aggressive over a topic that wasn't even escalating as far as i could tell. Statements are all good and dandy but the same goes to Daredevil fighting Spider-Man toe to toe and Spider-Man surely outclasses both Grayson and Jason as far as feats go. I'm not saying Daredevil would outclass him but Jason is not faster than him and Grayson LACKS Daredevil's senses which allow him to react with uncanny speed towards projectiles, i can agree Grayson is around Daredevil's acrobatic prowess but reaction-wise, Daredevil is absolutely superior to both Jason and Dick. Again, nobody said Daredevil is too fast for Jason, hell, you completely made that argument up.
I am not gonna counter everything in your old post, but just a couple things I think are pretty important. This is too save us both some time, not because I can't actually counter or pull out some nonsense things you said.
You won't do it because you freaking can't.
Jason's guns blow holes in guys with armour three times as thick as Matts. His bullets would break right through Matt's armour and his weapons.
That's assuming Jason is actually tagging someone who puts bullets from ANYONE into shame, not that it matters because it was clearly stated bullets can't penetrate Daredevils armor and that coupled with the fact he can react to them he can surely avoid great impact on his armor at the very least.
Dude, I'm sorry, but you clearly didn't read it good enough. It is one of the most context heavy stories of all time. Dick Grayson was destined to be the new Batman, Jason was portrayed as the enemy standing in his way. Jason was not incharacter for this story, he previously had watched some video that Bruce made, that caused him to lose his shit (Even UtRH Jason wouldn't shoot Damian). When the fight actually starts Jason baits Dick into a taser trap, it knocks him down for a moment, something Jason doesn't capitalize on. Jason was a dumb villain here, not an extremely tactical anti-hero that he was before. Jason jobs and monologues about how Dick should be his Robin (Jason would never want that in character), giving Grayson the time to regain his strength, stand up, and punch him across the face. Now the fight starts and Jason actually manages to hit Grayson with some fear gas, then that's about it.....the only attacks Jason lands on Dick from this point is some point blank batarangs and IIRC only 1 punch. This goes against every fight they have previously had. Their most famous fight is Outsiders 44, which is written by Winick, Jason's definitive writer, and writer of UtRH, Winick is also an experienced Nightwing writer as well. Tony Daniel, the writer of BftC, is..........not a writer at all, he was an artist, this was his first story IIRC. He is even known for his writing to be bland and pretty bad (Batman Reborn- non Morrison stuff, Catwoman IIRC, New 52 Deathstroke and New 52 Detective Comics). I have also read interviews where Daniel said this was his way to make Jason a villain and never give him the chance to be a good guy again..............obviously his plans didn't stick. For all these reasons and more, BftC should not be taken seriously for its portrayal of Jason Todd.
This is by far the most embarrassing excuse to justify Jason losing to Nightwing, he lost, it was addressed more than once after that issue going as far as mentioning it in New-52 as well, even if you don't agree with what was portrayed, Nightwing beat him and as far as i can tell, the issue was a legit one. I mean, you spent that much time writing this mini essay but restrained yourself from "losing" time addressing the important points. It's freaking idiotic.
Yeah, that's not too impressive considering Jason was able to disappear on Supergirl and she couldn't find him even with X Rays and planet level super hearing.
Sure, Batman does the same with Superman all the time, it's not like Jason is going to hide from Matt because besides hearing, he still has smell and no one can hide from him that way, not that it matters considering Supergirl wasn't paying attention to him when he escaped and she sure as hell is not trained to separate sounds and focusing on some like Daredevil does. Basically, THIS IS FREAKING IRRELEVANT.
And that's better then both Batman and Nightwing complimenting the Red Hood? (Obviously before they knew who he was)
Sure, Batman can always compliment his beloved ones.
Boy am I gonna start some shit with this comment.......This is why you shouldn't be on the Hall of Fame, this is why I personally don't respect a damn thing you say.Debates like this are to learn about the other character, not prove who would win at all costs. I am open minded, I know you that you know more about Daredevil then I do, I also know that you agreed that Batman could beat him. So me saying (and showing) that Jason is superior to Batman should prove to you, that I am right. On the other hand, you just think Daredevil wins, and nothing, nothing at all will change your mind. You are going into this with the mindset that you need to "win". That's not the point at all. Chill out, slow the F down, and try to learn something about Jason, cause you obviously know very little about him or his abilities.
You started it, now i really want you to hold your ground and defend these words because i won't be pulling mine either. This paragraph is basically why you're a joke in this site and people make threads with Red Hood and Hit Girl just to laugh at your posts considering the unbearable bias behind them. I wasn't expecting you to post this outburst about something that wasn't even destined to be addressed in such manner. I could care less about your respect, i didn't need it when i was voted in the Hall of Fame and SPEAKING OF WHICH, i can't fathom the reason why you brought it up? Do you know my reputation was made BEFORE i was voted in the Hall of Fame? The title means nothing and i never bring that up, you're the one seemingly butthurt enough to bring such topic to the debate and undersell my approach because i was inducted? Seriously, are you 12 or something? Go choke on your cheetos for all i care, this debate has gone to shit because of you, don't mind in replying. Hell, i even feel bad by lowering myself to this level.
so I guess Red Hood wins? Cool.
The irony behind this comment is hilarious, i mean, ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE SOLE REASON OF YOUR PMS OUTBURST WAS BECAUSE I SAID I WAS NOT GOING TO LET YOU WIN? Then you came at me like a rabid dog stating debates are not meant to be won but just meant to educate people... Well, just for your very unique mind to know, debates are INDEED WON or LOST and educational material comes as a side-effect of a good debate, which clearly this one isn't.
Either way, as i said before, don't mind in replying because you've lost any possibility of debating me, not because you're actually a good debater, which i think completely the opposite on top of that i think you're very butthurt about something that doesn't really matter, and i can't deal with drama queens. However, if you DO reply, just post the moment i mentioned my title on the HoF, post where did i try to make me look superior. I want this proof.
@nickzambuto You're another joke that consistently bails out of CaVs and debates after being spanked several times and called out for stating bullshit all the time. You're siding with >ASS< because you're another user who's just butthurt that hasn't made it to the HoF, which in all honesty if that means so little to you guys you shouldn't be bringing it every time someone disagrees with you. It is your takes, both of your takes are freaking ridiculous as far as your characters goes and even if i had 4 days in the vine, less than 10 posts and no reputation whatsoever i would still call them ridiculous. His and your arguments suck and there's no title, HoF or reputation involved in that thought.
Now, you do a really cute couple and i approve it, go screw around somewhere else, drink tea and rant about how you'll never get into the HoF precisely because you can't debate against an inductee without bringing such a meaningless point.
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