Rebirth Superman vs. Current Hyperion

VS.

• Superman can only use feats from Rebirth.
• Hyperion is his 13034 version.
• Morals Off
• No BFR

Superman wins unless this turns into an arm wrestling contest due to having actual combat applicable feats.

I'd say fighting evenly with Hulk is a good combat feat.

@lvenger: Rebirth Superman is being treated differently now, he is much weaker right ?

@empressofdread: Superman's rebirth writers do not focus on giving him crazy feats, instead they give him good stories. They don't seem to care much about feats. That's why people consider him weaker than post crisis and new52 Supermen.

@charan_: well my question is if he is the same person then why is he being treated differently ? I know Superman is basically a weaker version, the DC guys keep reducing his power form PC to post crisis and then post flash point. He is getting weaker with retcons and reboots.

EDIT: I liked reading post crisis Superman comics, he used to get good feats and used his powers properly. Superman is supposed to be more powerful getting good stories is one thing. But he is not the same as PC Superman now, he used to use his enhanced senses x ray vision, infra red vision and microscopic vision and all to solve problems, used to use battle tactics and his abilities to the fullest.

@empressofdread: The answer to your question of why he is being treated differently has already been given. Tomasi and Gleason aren't known to write or give stellar crazy feats as far as I know and Jurgens isn't a fan of planetary feats either. We'll see how Bendis handles Superman once he takes charge of the super titles. People keep whining how overpowered Superman is all the time, maybe DC think it's better to reduce his power levels? I don't know. Technically he is the same as post crisis and post flashpoint Supermen, he just lacks feats on their level now.

@charan_: Ok fair enough.

Superman. Current Hyperion is shit thanks to Nick Spencer. I swear Marvel is just wasting him

Current Hyperion is nothing like what he appeared in Hickmans Avengers, in fact if we take all the best and worst feats of Hyperion and try to find a middle ground, he is somewhere around mid-tier to low powerhouse level.

Superman.

Rebirth superman is still the new52/ post crisis superman so I am not sure why the separation. Even in recent comics, John releases a solar flare which was stated in the comic that he got it from Superman. So all his feats still belong to this Superman. I am not sure why comic vine trying to reset his feats.

People need to learn what the word 'only' means.

Reading is taboo it's best to just speak your mind regardless of how amusing it'll sound to others.

@masterskywalker: Lel.

Hyperion loses

Both aren't that powerful, tbh, especially Superman. Hopefully he gets better soon by regaining his long lost awesomeness that he used to have which is highly unlikely considering Bendis is this close to writing Superman and Action comics in Jun (IIRC). However, since the topic limited Superman to "only" rebirth feats, I don't think they can actually hurt each other so this is a stalemate.

Bump

Hyperion

Hyperion, as of now.

Hyperion wins.

Hyp slaughters

Hyperion didn't really fight evenly with Hulk though, he blasted him with heat vision which did nothing and got one hit on Hulk after Abyss lost control. Hulk got 2 square hits on Hyperion by contrast. And Hulk ragdolled Marcus pretty easily in Superior Spider-Man Team Up #1.

Superman

If the OP says we can only use Rebirth feats, that means we can only use Rebirth feats, regardless of Post-Crisis/N-52 being a part of his timeline.

For example when the OP specifies "Savage Hulk", we can't use Green Scar feats, regardless of them both being from the 616 Universe.

@jay_z94:

The way I saw it, each character got off two attacks on the other, then Hulk reverted to Banner due to Abyss losing control. That looks pretty even to me.

I don't recall Hyperion getting a second attack on Hulk before Abyss lost control though. That's my key point, before that Hulk was landing more hits and holding the upper hand.

Well Hulk took him by surprise and attacked from behind, we can't really use that as a combat feat for either. I could just as easily say that Wolverine beats any High Tier character by stabbing them in the brain from behind.

Logan usually has to land a surprise attack for him to successfully brain stab someone though. As in Hulk's case during an issue of Savage Wolverine.

Don't get me wrong, I think that Hulk is superior to Hyperion and would win in a fight. I'm just arguing that Hyperion does have good combat feats.

I get that was your point, believe me. However I disagree that Hyperion has good combat feats outside of Hickman's Avengers run. Outside of that Hyperion struggled against Namor, Blue Marvel and Human Torch in Robinson's Squadron Supreme, didn't put down a weakened Red Hulk in Thunderbolts and had trouble fighting Thundra and Iron Man. That's not very impressive IMO.

@jay_z94:

Before Abyss lost control of Hulk, he landed two punches on Hyperion, while Hyperion landed one heat vision blast and one punch on Hulk. That's two attacks each.

Hyperion only landed that punch on Hulk after Abyss lost control over him.

I agree that Hyperion is an inconsistent character. I just wanted to point out that he does have a good combat feat or two.

He does have some good combat feats but most of them are from Hickman. Without Hickman, Hyperion's combat feats drop drastically.

Superman in Rebirth is essentially Post-Crisis Superman living like New 52 Superman.
He's still Post-Crisis Superman.
Most of the people he's jobbed to have hax.
He won't lose to a Great Value version of himself in what will undoubtedly degenerate into a slugfest.

Both are disappointing, but Hyperion

Superman.

+1 lol

I don't understand how we're suppose to use post crisis feats for new 52 or rebirth superman, they're clearly at different power levels

@beastmonster: If Wolverine claws can't penetrate something they wouldn't break... they'd bounce off. If his claws broke on contact, that would mean Wolverine applied enough force to break adamantium, which he obviously can't.

Wolverine stabbing power gem Thanos is more than enough evidence to suggest he can stab Thor. Wolverine was making him gush blood just with slashes and Thor admitted his durability won't last. If you want to ignorantly scale off of the Chulk vs Odinson fight that's fine by me. Jarnbjorn cut Thor's arm off, yet made no such cut when he chopped at Chulk's face. So I'm guessing Chulk's skin is more durable than Thor's bones? In that case, Wolverine can easily lop of Thor's arm because Wolverine's claws have cut through Chulk's skin like butter, something Jarnbjorn couldn't do. In fact, he slashed King Thor's arm and it came off when he fought Hulk and Thing.

Superman.

@beastmonster: That was power gem thanos. He had the infinity gauntlet and turned off all the gems apart from the power gem in order to give the heroes a chance.

Show me where Wolverine specifically stabs at Thor's bones and fails to pierce them.

I honestly don't know what you are trying to imply with the thanos showing. That is wolverine's best showing in his history. That showing happened 40 years ago. Since that time, thanos has only become more durable, whilst wolverine has only been cutting people one tier, two tiers, or 3+ tiers below thanos. The power gem adds to your durability depending on how much power you are tapping into from it. Considering wolverine in those days had trouble cutting someone like blob, and considering he had trouble with juggernaut, it's quite clear that regardless of thanos using the power gem, thanos obviously wasn't using enough of the power gem to put his durability on par with someone like juggernaut or a skyfather. Wolverine would fail to cut modern day thanos.

We don't assume wolverine can cut through thors bones just because you say so. The best people he has cut through bones of are gladiator and hulk. That is it. Do you realize world breaker hulk was impaled and mortally wounded by a shadowforge blade? The same shadowforge blade which thor odinson recently shattered with two swings of his axe while fighting chulk. Wolverine literally only made paper cuts despite slashing thors cheeks twice while being bloodlusted. He made three parallel papercuts across thors face. He only managed to cut thor better in his gut/stomach area.

Here's the scans of what thors face looked like vs his stomach. Note how minuscule the scratches were on thors face. It's abundantly obvious wolverine is incapable of chopping limbs off or brain stabbing thor. Right after thor got slashed in the face by wolverine, he grabbed wolverine by the ankle and tossed him despite having one hand occupied holding the hammer. And you can also see wolverine failed to pierce more than skin deep when he stabbed thors lower back. So yes, based on how he could only significantly cut thors stomach area, and how he failed to pierce thors ribs and failed to cut his lower back, that makes it quite clear he can't pierce thors bones. On the other hand he impaled hulks arm even while he was world war hulk. Which is my point. You have no argument for wolverine piercing thor or supermans bones without hyping up hulks piercing durability then attempting to transfer over hulks piercing weaknesses to superman or thor. Wolverine can't pierce thor or thanos' bones until he proves himself capable of doing so. Piercing gladiator or hulk doesn't really cut it. And to be honest, has wolverine even cut through colossus bone? The fact that he has slashed up the hulk and the thing and gladiator more than he has cut up colossus is odd. Hulk needs his healing factor to keep up with superman or thor from a durability/damage soak standpoint. And gladiator needs his healing factor as well.

Ironically enough, there is also wolverine failing to dig more than 3 or 4 inches of his claws into ragnarok, someone who is astronomically weaker and less durable than thor. He failed to cut through more than ragnaroks chest, and failed to pierce through the real thors lower back despite being bloodlusted and out for the kill.

Gallery

@beastmonster: Classic Blob and Juggernaut are truly invulnerable, so that's irrelevant.

Power-gem Thanos is Wolverine's best cutting feat I agree.

It's irrelevant that Wolverine left paper cuts on Thor's face when later he was cutting him up with blood splatters. The same thing happened with Colossus during the wolverine goes to hell storyline. His first strike glanced off of Colossus' chest causing no damage, then later on Wolverine bloodied him up so badly that he needed to be hospitalised.

I asked you to show me where Wolverine tried and failed to cut Thor's bones, you haven't showed me this yet. When Wolverine was on top of Thor, you can't see his claws or Thor's lower back, so how does that actually prove anything? It's just your assumption. Also how did Wolverine fail to pierce his lower back when Thor literally screamed "AGGGHHH!".

I thought lowballer was back then for a sec

Wolverine didn't cut thors face any better despite repeated attempts. No, your analogy with colossus is invalid here. Wolverine only made paper cuts on thors face, he failed to impale any bone in thors lower back. The only area he significantly cut was thors stomach.

Exactly, when wolverine was on top of thor, you didn't see his claws come out on the other side of thor. Which literally shows he could only pierce thor skin deep. Ergo, he can't pierce thors bones. Moreover, adamantium isn't durable enough to pierce through superman, thor, or thanos' bones.

Thor screaming aggggh means he was cut. Which he was. It doesn't mean his bones were cut or pierced. And wolverines initial strike on colossus did minimal damage because colossus was bracing himself and flexing. Hellverine was cutting him up badly once colossus was on the floor.

Again, we aren't transferring over feats from people with piercing weaknesses to thor or superman. Nor does it make sense to transfer over low showings in general from one character to another, especially not with characters like hulk or gladiator or sentry who have many low showings due to their powerset and the way it operates.

And I don't know how wolverine comes into play here. My main point was the low showings don't transfer over from character to character and that hyperion, at least hickmans version, is capable of beating this superman and his showing against hulk was also valid.

Bump

I don't get it? I know his solo was trash. But what happened in Secret Empire that made him such a weakling? Did not bother reading that event.

Also during Superior Spider-Man Team Up #1 Hyperion was mind controlled...

@king_stranglehold_da_first: During Secret Empire, a Chitauri weapon was able to hurt him and he was out of the fight before it even began. I only read the main event, so I don't know if they prepared for him or what, but in the main even he did absolutely nothing.

Yikes... Marvel really squandered the potential Hickman left them.

I may be wrong but isn't rebirth superman pre-crisis superman that survived the crisis or stuff like that if so shouldn't he one shot??