Ravager vs. Azrael

Rose Wilson, AKA Ravager

vs.

Jean-Paul Valley, AKA Azrael

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- 3 days prep for both

- In character

- Pre-Flashpoint only

- Win by death or KO

- Takes place in Gotham City at dusk, 100 yards apart and not in view of each other.

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@sync1: @comicstooge: @kidman560:

Thoughts?

@joygirl: well for sure Azrael has her definitely beat in the strength department its just the speed im worried about. @sync1 can i get some speed feats for Ravager and then ill see if anything i have for Azrael can match it cuz i know hes stronger than her the guy lifted a flipping tree like it was nothing

Not sure what either are capable of with prep but I think JPV can beat Rose in a random. He did do pretty well against her father.

I suppose JPV could show up in armor more like his knight fall armor.

@jashro44: IIRC Rose is an incredible prepper. But I'll wait for an expert.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/nico4ever/blog/ravager-respect-thread/88188/

As for speed specifically

She can hit 35 mph on foot under optimal conditions. Then she has meta level reflexes (actually all her physical stats are meta, including her strength. She was given the same serum as Deathstroke) that are further enhanced by precog.

EDIT: I should add that she has lightning dodging feats:

She defeated both Bombshell and Wonder Girl with one day of prep:

Gallery

She has the same enhanced tactical mind as her father, again because of the serum.

Ravager has the edge in prep. I also think Rose could beat JPV in a random encounter.

@kidman560 Speed/agility feat. Rose has better h2h feats. Azrael shows to be on par with Batman's skill. Ravager shows to be on par with Cassandra Cain's skill.

@sync1: I'm not sure what that scan proves. Jean Paul Valley can dodge bullets. As for Rose being on par with cassandra cain what is this based on?

Notice how she's running on the wall....

A skilled practitioner can run up walls. Running up walls isn't even beyond real life standards let alone JPV. I would say the fact she is dodging bullets is a lot more impressive.

Az stomps.

@jashro44: Lol, because running on a wall while dodging bullets is "human standards." That video you posted is simply momentum.

Ravager has pure superhuman agility, and she is running a much farther distance than any human could ever dream of doing. She is running on the wall while dodging bullets. It is not in any way comparable to humans.

I all ready said the bullet dodging is more impressive then running on the wall....Thats the only reason its even a feat. I am not sure why you find running on a wall impressive.

I said wall running was human. Not bullet dodging. However bullet dodging isn't impressive by street level standards. Considering how much more impressive street levelers are compared to the average person its not much of a stretch to believe she can move further then any human can dream.

And Azrael has super human agility too so I don't see your point....

Kidman needed a speed feat so i posted one. That was the point in the scan... =p

And btw, humans can't run on walls. They could go like 4 meters at most, while having to force your body on the wall and using your hands. Your video was kids jumping the corners, which isn't at all what Ravager is doing.

That's the farthest someone has ran a wall.

@sync1: Thats because he is a real life human. Based on feats and showings hand ninjas would slaughter are finest athletes. To say someone like Ravagar taking a few extra steps doesn't say much.

That is much more than "a few extra steps." Notice how her body is fully horizontal on the wall. She is not struggling at all and literally sprinting and dodging bullets while on the wall. That is an insane feat.

@jashro44: @sync1: Gooooood I could USE every OUNCE of you RAAAGE! Haaaaatititiititititititit!!

I'll take Jean-Paul for a 6/10.

He's stronger, comparable speed (regularly blocked bullets) probably has superior skill and has better durability.

It honestly doesn't look further then 10 ft to me. She doesn't look like is doing more then doubling the record.

JPV's got this, esp if this is post Knightfall Jean with his physical upgrades.

@jashro44: Also if memory serves Rose beat Cass Cain 1 on 1.

The first fight they had when Rose was inexperienced (to be fair) Cassandra won (and granted you could argue that she got distracted due to her father watching). There second fight I have seen the arguments that cassandra was affected by poison, and based on the way she performed against slade and getting one shotted by nightwing I have to agree.

Azrael

@jashro44: Looks like you're either in denial or don't understand the laws of physics.

@joygirl You should make a Black Panther vs Ravager battle.

Azrael stomps.

Oh please. Explain :3

I honestly don't see how ravagar ran a lot further then the average person but whatever. I see her run to the wall and then she runs at some guys. I have no idea how far away the guys she was running towards were.

It is literally impossible for any human to be perfectly horizontal on a wall, for one.

Second, she is outrunning bullets while still on the wall. That is a good 10 times what humans can do.

@sync1:

It is literally impossible for any human to be perfectly horizontal on a wall, for one.

That can just be an artist thing. Sometimes a writer intends something and the artist draw it differently then what was intended. For example when Hank Pym slapped his wife it was actually intended to be accident but because of the way the artist drew it they had to change that (or something). I think the writer intended it to be standard wall running but the artist just drew her running horizontal.

Second, she is outrunning bullets while still on the wall. That is a good 10 times what humans can do.

It does. However that doesn't make her faster then JPV. Deathstroke also has the speed and strength of 10 men and JPV kept up with him just fine.

1, that was a different version of Deathstroke.

2, she is actually meant to be running the wall. If she was meant to be running on walls like a human, she would not be horizontal and would have to grab the wall to hold herself up. It is simply a feat of agility and speed.

3, Ravager's fighting skill is greater than JPV's. Azrael's biggest fighting feat was the ability to defeat Batman, (half of it was because of her physicals). Ravager could go toe-to-toe with Cassandra Cain.

I hate to use ABC logic, but Cassandra Cain > Batman.

@sync1:

1, that was a different version of Deathstroke.

No it wasn't.

2, she is actually meant to be running the wall. If she was meant to be running on walls like a human, she would not be horizontal and would have to grab the wall to hold herself up. It is simply a feat of agility and speed.

I never said it wasn't, I just don't think its as impressive as you are saying.

3, Ravager's fighting skill is greater than JPV's. Azrael's biggest fighting feat was the ability to defeat Batman, (half of it was because of her physicals). Ravager could go toe-to-toe with Cassandra Cain.

I hate to use ABC logic, but Cassandra Cain > Batman.

The first fight between ravagar Cassandra won and I would argue she was holding back (granted Rose was inexperienced and got distracted). However prior to this she turned her mask around and disarmed her. Cassandra was portrayed as better. There second fight cassandra cain was poisoned.

@sync1: @jashro44: @joygirl: ok i believe i have come to a decision. My decision is that Azreal takes this more often than not

plus i know Azrael is stronger so i give it to him 6/10 times

@kidman560 said:

@sync1: @jashro44: @joygirl: ok i believe i have come to a decision. My decision is that Azreal takes this more often than not

plus i know Azrael is stronger so i give it to him 6/10 times

What is the point in this scan? This fight is with prep, which Ravager trumps Azrael in.

For the record I haven't really said who wins here as my knowledge of Roses prep is limited. Can she use her precognition for prep?

@jashro44: My feat i posted was for Kidman..... You were initially arguing that it wasn't a speed feat at all.

Also, IIRC that was a different version of Deathstroke. :s

When it comes down to it, i would definitely say that Ravager could stalemate Cassandra. Something always happens to make their fights uneven.

I know.

It wasn't. Slade was still Slade. He was younger and amnesic but he still had all his skills and enhancements.

I don't know about that. There fights always have context as you said. What else has rose done?

@sync1: it was a scan to show the awesomeness of Azrael let me show more

spoilers

dodges many lasers

Gallery

Beats Deathstroke

he reacted with enough speed with to land gracefully on the wall and jump back

Unless your name is Reed Richards Prep does not Guarantee you victory. and since i dont See Reed here i will disregard the fact that your comment implied that Ravager wins because of her Prep.

Azrael is as fast as Deathstroke if not faster and has Great reaction times

he also blocks bullets at close range

so Ravagers reaction time is not that much Greater than Azraels therefore he takes this 6/10 times

@kidman560: You act as if Ravager couldn't top that. And yes, because of the prep Ravager wins.

and what is Azrael going to do with his prep sit there and twiddle his thumbs

@jashro44 said:

Can't use the "Cass was poisoned" argument in their second fight (which Rose had the clear advantage in before the fight was interrupted) while not also applying it to Rose in their first fight, since Rose was drugged in exactly the same manner then. Also, it in no way affected their ability to fight or think tactically, all it did was brainwash them into doing what Slade wanted.

Also, there's no "arguing" that Rose might have been distracted by her father watching their first fight... that's what happened. It's even in Cass' internal dialogue, it's what she was waiting for. Because Rose was inexperienced and trying to prove herself to her father, Cass knew it would only be a matter of time before Rose looked to him for approval. When she did, that's when Cass won the fight.

Rose stomps the Terror TItans (who had earlier defeated the entire team of Aquagirl, Terra, Offspring, Molecule, Zacharay Zatara, and Star Spangled Kid)

More prep, Rose sets a trap for and captures Marquee and Cassandra Cain:

Gallery

Well, yeah. That's probably exactly what he'd do. Ravager can actually plan things out. Azrael kind of just..... goes in for the fight.

im leaning towards ravager with prep.. maybe

All right thank you for the correction. All though just about there titans east fight does the drug have any physical effects? If so wouldn't Rose be more resistant due to her enhancements? I mainly ask because thats how I always rationalized the part about deathstroke effortlessly dodging batgirl and then getting one shotted by nightwing.

@jashro44: it was never shown to have any negative physical effects, no. If anything it would have had positive effects, otherwise it's kind of a crappy serum. It only affected their free will.

All right thank you for the information.