That and the fact that he needed Georges help and he still failed....at least with Supes and Lois, she didn't even move. Supes just moved so fast the dude didn't even have a chance to blink lol.
And he would have risked damaging the systems in the lab and also getting both George and the Doktor killed with his kind of power, hence he had to be careful.
You mean aside from the GIFS, and going by facts not assumptions like you have? You're trying to justify and make excuses for him killing and not being able to save George, if he was as fast as you say he would have no problem disarming or blitzing the guy with the gun while saving George in the process. A situation Supes had no trouble with saving Lois in that same situation
If you read my post, that kind of power comes with destruction. We have seen feats of him being able to cut beyond blade length, what if that accidentally struck the computer behind them and killed the children in the process.
Not my logic, it's fact based off the canon of DCEU. You some how assume and think "a sword can cut Superman" with your "what sword hasn't cut Superman" statement but that is not just 100% wrong but making false assumptions based off an energy weapon no less proves little and proved yourself wrong if anything.
Your logic is that Raiden never did this so there is no proof he can do that. Same logic applies to Superman that he never took this so he can't take that. You proved nothing and only contradicted yourself, while still implying NLF.
Yes I read your post do you know what energy attack is? Be it a blast or sword, energy attacks are useless against Superman in the regard that you're trying to say "it would kill him" not til I see evidence. Your "piercing" argument holds no substance, you're merely assuming which proves nothing.
An energy gun isn't a sword. If you can't differentiate that then that is just asinine. If you are calling me assuming, look at your whole argument and you will find yourself doing the exact same thing, while proving yourself wrong.
Armstrong was superior to raiden before raiden got the Muramasa and killed him. That sword was the key.
Hardening nanomachines is just increasing his durability since the way his nanomachines even work is BS.
Raiden has a hard limit on what he can and cannot cut.
Raiden had to cut before the nanomachines can harden fully. Sam demonstrated this in the DLC. Even with Murasama he didn't get through Armstrong's armor. Same with Raiden on multiple QTEs.
I never said Raiden's sword had no limits to what it can cut, but Superman doesn't have substantial piercing durability feats to even resist a swing.
I feel like this is one of these threads where dudes ask for evidence, yet reject it when given it, it's pretty pointless at that point to continue
Raiden could absolutely cut Superman with the HF blade or the Muramasa. The question is if he could get a good shot in. If Clark tries to snatch the blade away with Raiden in the same manner as he did with Diana, he will get cut at some point. I'm also certain that the dude doesn't start off a fight in his Flash speeds, that's pretty inconsistent with the rest of the fight or the times when he's stopped or slowed down, he gets tagged by a ton of stuff there, so it's hard to qualify that as how Clark would fight here. To be honest, it could go either way. It all depends on the first moves by both of them.
Yet there's no evidence of Raiden's sword cutting a kryptonian level character.....it's already been proven that Raiden isn't as strong nor as fast as DCEU supes as the video proved when he failed to save George. @enemybird already proved this.
Your logic is that Raiden never did this so there is no proof he can do that. Same logic applies to Superman that he never took this so he can't take that. You proved nothing and only contradicted yourself, while still implying NLF.
Yes I read your post do you know what energy attack is? Be it a blast or sword, energy attacks are useless against Superman in the regard that you're trying to say "it would kill him" not til I see evidence. Your "piercing" argument holds no substance, you're merely assuming which proves nothing.
An energy gun isn't a sword. If you can't differentiate that then that is just asinine. If you are calling me assuming, look at your whole argument and you will find yourself doing the exact same thing, while proving yourself wrong.
That sounds like an excuse too me, he was too slow...
I don't see how Raiden's power is anywhere near as destructive as Supes, yet he's always cautious and usually saves people in danger.
No, my logic is based off factual evidence not speculation and bias. You're assuming his sword would hurt supes without proof, that means til we've seen his sword harm a being such as Superman's power, durability this is simply a false assumption.
Never said it was, I said energy weapons consist of plasma blasts, swords and such. Please read more carefully. We have yet to see evidence of any energy based weapon cutting or killing Superman. I contradicted nothing you're the one who's contradicted yourself and proved nothing, and various people have called you out on it. Umm I'm not the one assuming an energy sword can magically cut Superman without evidence here kid, you've been proved wrong.
@arctika: Said the guy who said Supes could lift 1/4 of manhattan with no proof whatsoever. AND completely ignored what i said about asking fro feats backing up why you think so.
@red_ruby_petal: piercing durability does not exist. This is a stupid argument given that Raiden's sword, whichever one you're using doesn't pierce objects. It cuts by severing molecular bonds.
Molecular bonds that would be held tighter within superman. Hence you have to provide evidence that he would be able to cut someone of superman's level of durability. Something raiden hasn't shown. Before you bring up Armstrong, superman is more durable than him too
That sounds like an excuse too me, he was too slow...
I don't see how Raiden's power is anywhere near as destructive as Supes, yet he's always cautious and usually saves people in danger.
Because his skillset doesn't involve flying towards a target. He is holding a blade that could resonate resulting in cutting for more than what it can connect, the sole reason George got nearly half of his body cut down even if Raiden got a good swing.
No, my logic is based off factual evidence not speculation and bias. You're assuming his sword would hurt supes without proof, that means til we've seen his sword harm a being such as Superman's power, durability this is simply a false assumption.
Whatever helps you sleep at night. I don't think anyone reading your arguments will actually believe what you are saying.
Never said it was, I said energy weapons consist of plasma blasts, swords and such. Please read more carefully. We have yet to see evidence of any energy based weapon cutting or killing Superman. I contradicted nothing you're the one who's contradicted yourself and proved nothing, and various people have called you out on it. Umm I'm not the one assuming an energy sword can magically cut Superman without evidence here kid, you've been proved wrong.
Funny, he never tanked an energy sword. Not that it makes a difference though. Keep thinking you have proven me wrong when you yourself couldn't even give substantial proof for his piercing resistance and try to make up for it with whatever you just thought up.
The video you showed was the beginning of this argument which I have taken to consideration and countered. Whats the point of saying this?
The video was really a one shot tbh. Raiden isn't as fast as you think he is was the argument. I gave an indefensible video as proof. You tried to counter but your explanation didn't hold up due to a direct contradiction in the video.
Blade mode has a decent reaction time and will prevent him from being blitzed outright but there is a time limit on it and we dont even know if Raiden and cut superman with the HF blade. That also has limits as clearly shown when Armstrong snapped it like a twig. Raiden needs to constantly recharge just to perceive a blitzing Superman. Eventually it will run out. Superman could also...you know use heat vision. I've clearly established that Raiden cannot move very fast. While Superman can causallymove fast enough to make people look like statues.
@stalin-is-steel: HF blade would fail. Muramasa might do so but raiden isn't getting a free shot since superman knows that he has a weapon that might or might not cut him
Raiden got tagged more than Clark. He doesn't run as fast or even have flight. Raiden has good reactions
piercing durability does not exist. This is a stupid argument given that Raiden's sword, whichever one you're using doesn't pierce objects. It cuts by severing molecular bonds.
So it is a sword for absolutely no reason at all?
Molecular bonds that would be held tighter within superman. Hence you have to provide evidence that he would be able to cut someone of superman's level of durability. Something raiden hasn't shown. Before you bring up Armstrong, superman is more durable than him too
Cutting on a molecular level means you are cutting for that small amount of area, hence cleanly cutting in plenty of cases. Frankly Superman doesn't have clearcut proof he possesses such means of durability necessary to take a swing.
Armstrong has proven piercing resistance to a powerful weapon and a powerful foe, something Superman hasn't demonstrated.
Cutting something that is supposedly made of nuclear power isn't the same as literally tanking a nuke going off in your FACE which I'm pretty sure would literally disintegrate Raiden lol....
My point is that Raiden's sword cut through something that could tank something Superman would die from, it was a strength feat, not a durability feat. Also unless you wanna claim heat vision is as strong as a nuke (which it isn't), how would this affect the fight. It's hardly in-character for Clark to just stay in the air and spam heat vision and even then Raiden's faster than the heat vision can tag him.
Clark is not a normal subject though, while that's impressive I don't see how cutting things on a molecular level proves it can hurt Superman, there's no proof that the sword would hurt or cut through Superman
Has Superman ever been hurt on a molecular level before? No? Then there's zero reason to believe he could survive long with literally zero durability feats to go off of. You know what Molecules are right? the thing that literally makes up all life, skin, rocks, air and everything in between. Cuts way deeper than your average pocket knife.
Iceman, Sub-Zero, Captain Cold and Killer Frost can all freeze things on a molecular level yet don't mean they'd beat someone on Superman's level.
The difference in that case is simple. In those examples the stat gap is large enough that it doesn't matter, unlike in this case where Raiden has the stats to not only compete, but overcome. Also as an aside, can't speak for the others but Mortal Kombat Sub-Zero hasn't hurt people molecularly before iirc (bit of a hazy memory on that point, assuming you are talking about MK Sub but whatevs, not important to this discussion).
I've already addressed that other point, Flash is obviously faster than Raiden, the rest of the league yet Supes was able to see him moving and nearly tagged him.
Not gonna bother addressing the rest of the league since i like to hope we can agree that their irrelevant to this discussion, but as for Flash his best feat is moving whilst rain is frozen correct? well the thing is that Superman didn't see him moving at regular speeds, he was still slower than him and could barely tag him (the only reason Supes did at all was because Barry tripped, and even then it wasn't a proper punch, so he couldn't land anything that'd be close to properly outing Raiden)
On the other hand of the spectrum, Raiden was able to cut through this with no issues at regular speeds, whilst the rain was completely frozen no problem, so in terms of rain being frozen in time, Raiden uses it to far greater affect than Supes ever has.
They did chest bump each other however which still, how many people can do that to Flash seriously? Raiden slices a weapon and is swinging a sword really fast but I don't see how this proves he's faster than Superman.
And he only chest bumped at all is because Flash tripped and bent down, if he was an actually competent Flash instead of a cheap, MCU Spiderman imitation (at terms of narrative anyways), then Supes wouldn't have tagged him at all. And if you wanna claim that his shoulder bumps are equally strong as his punches, please stop, that's dumb and i shouldn't need to explain why. As for Raiden being faster, see my above statement.
Raiden has never moved this fast...
Gonna lump these 3 together as they share the same problem. That's all travel speed and isn't applicable in combat situations. travel speed =/= combat speed.
Nice staring feat, shame you can't actually tag Flash with a punch worth a darn.
Adorable, even pre-MGR raiden could do that (and Snake's dodged mach 7 railgun shots before btw, way better then some random fodder solider has ever done)
Yeah, barely tagging Flash after constantly missing a bunch of swings and then should bashing him which only KO'd him if you reaaaaaally wanna wank it, so impressive next to a guy who can swing his sword dozens of time in the same speed condition...(this is sarcasm btw)
Superman's durability tanking a nuke exploding while fighting DD head on...I don't believe Raiden(MGS) would survive this...proof he's ever tanked a nuke to the face?
Superman doesn't create nuke level heat with his heat, nor the radiation produced by nukes in order to harm Raiden, so whether he could survive this or not is irrelevant. Also if it weren't for the sun's energy Clark would've died here, so you can barely say Superman survived.
Or literally being hit with the force of another kryptonian(Zod) into several skyscrapers then walking from it as if styrofoam fell on him?
Remember RAY, you know, the mech the size of a building which Raiden launched above the nearby skyscraper in a weaker body than his Endgame one? Just the size alone of the blade Raiden blocked at the beginning of this gif could level a building easy, so Raiden can beyond casually block this by endgame, thus shouldn't have an issue considering this was both a weaker body and without ripper mode.
Raiden ever survive an explosion head on into several huge chemical tankers?
I remember when Superman makes explosions with his punches, as well as when his heat vision could cause this kind of destruction. Oh wait, they never have, so Raiden has no need to survive something Clark can't produce himself.
At the heart of the issue, you haven't debunked how Raiden's sword doesn't cut right through him, and with his faster speeds, durability to last and much higher skill (oh yeah, did we mention Raiden lead his own soldier platoon when he was only 10 years old? He's way more skilled than supes as a bonus), Raiden wins. Can we please end this, i'm bored of this and got CaV's to work on.
@red_ruby_petal well if there's one good thing to come out of this, i'm now motivated to get our CaV done lol (sorry, would've worked on it more, but tourneys and scenarios come first to me).
The video was really a one shot tbh. Raiden isn't as fast as you think he is was the argument. I gave an indefensible video as proof. You tried to counter but your explanation didn't hold up due to a direct contradiction in the video.
One video holds direct contradiction to all other things Raiden has done during Rising and before that, like when he swiftly cuts down Gekko's before the bomb timer reached 0 and Snake couldn't even see that, and the number of times he has deflected and dodged bullets, even fighting opponents operating at a speed level comparable or better to WW's. What I said is a great explanation of why he couldn't have operated at that level of speed to address that one contradiction.
Blade mode has a decent reaction time and will prevent him from being blitzed outright but there is a time limit on it and we dont even know if Raiden and cut superman with the HF blade. That also has limits as clearly shown when Armstrong snapped it like a twig. Raiden needs to constantly recharge just to perceive a blitzing Superman. Eventually it will run out. Superman could also...you know use heat vision. I've clearly established that Raiden cannot move very fast. While Superman can causallymove fast enough to make people look like statues.
I explained why Raiden can cut Superman like pages ago anyway. Unless you show piercing resistance of any degree, that isn't helping. Armstrong snapping the H/F blade only establishes his piercing durability and strength so it isn't an anti feat for the H/F blade, more like if Superman tried that, he would have already lost his fingers or even his entire hand.
@red_ruby_petal: swords cut because of sharpness and force being applied over a small area.
I know you guys read comics where an uber powerful character with uber durability gets pierced when he shouldn't have been but neither character here is a comic book character nor do they follow this split durability stuff.
You don't know what you're talking about again. Every attack damages on a molecular level because living beings are made up of molecules.
By this logic of you're espousing, raiden could cut say goku because he doesn't have "molecular durability" which is bullshit.
Superman Is Armstrong's superior across almost every category.
@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: Even more disappointed they couldn't even debate for Superman properly when I refused to debunk any of Superman's feats.
I know you guys read comics where an uber powerful character with uber durability gets pierced when he shouldn't have been but neither character here is a comic book character nor do they follow this split durability stuff.
swords cut because of sharpness and force being applied over a small area.
We differentiate piercing and blunt for a couple reasons
1. In fiction there will always be inconsistencies, and this also applies to live action.
2. The area would be hundreds or thousands of times smaller than that of a fist so the numbers would be so large it would be a waste of time to calculate them since that can hold horrible inconsistent calcs.
3. Objects have different properties.
You don't know what you're talking about again. Every attack damages on a molecular level because living beings are made up of molecules.
Molecules are small so when they say molecular level that means the area is small enough to cut through individual particles. With what you are saying would just be ruining the purpose of the concept and is nonsensical.
By this logic of you're espousing, raiden could cut say goku because he doesn't have "molecular durability" which is bullshit.
Goku is a completely different tier and Goku isn't even in this fight nor is he Superman.
Superman Is Armstrong's superior across almost every category.
Except piercing. That much is obvious.
Might I add Armstrong has waaayyy better striking power and lifting.
"The area would be hundreds or thousands of times smaller than that of a fist so the numbers would be so large it would be a waste of time to calculate them since that can hold horrible inconsistent calcs."
This isn't true nor is it impossible to calculate because you're thinking of the wrong thing.
"With what you are saying would just be ruining the purpose of the concept and is nonsensical."
Not. Every attack damaged molecules, you'd need to damage molecules to harm someone since they're made up of molecules.
"Goku is a completely different tier and Goku isn't even in this fight."
The latter is correct. The former is also true but you're missing the point. Raiden can't cut something too durable evident by him failing to cut Armstrong a character superman has better feats than. A character goku also has better feats than but by your logic raiden would be able to also cut goku because "molecular bs"
"Might I add Armstrong has waaayyy better striking power and lifting."
He possibly punches harder than superman by making a metal gear's core explode. He definitely can't lift as heavy as superman.
"Except piercing."
You're not making a good case for this split piercing durability because that's not how durability works nor is it how either characters durability works
The video was really a one shot tbh. Raiden isn't as fast as you think he is was the argument. I gave an indefensible video as proof. You tried to counter but your explanation didn't hold up due to a direct contradiction in the video.
One video holds direct contradiction to all other things Raiden has done during Rising and before that, like when he swiftly cuts down Gekko's before the bomb timer reached 0 and Snake couldn't even see that, and the number of times he has deflected and dodged bullets, even fighting opponents operating at a speed level comparable or better to WW's
Blade mode has a decent reaction time and will prevent him from being blitzed outright but there is a time limit on it and we dont even know if Raiden and cut superman with the HF blade. That also has limits as clearly shown when Armstrong snapped it like a twig. Raiden needs to constantly recharge just to perceive a blitzing Superman. Eventually it will run out. Superman could also...you know use heat vision. I've clearly established that Raiden cannot move very fast. While Superman can causallymove fast enough to make people look like statues.
I explained why Raiden can cut Superman like pages ago anyway. Unless you show piercing resistance of any degree, that isn't helping. Armstrong snapping the H/F blade only establishes his piercing durability and strength so it isn't an anti feat for the H/F blade, more like if Superman tried that, he would have already lost his fingers or even his entire hand.
I like how you completely ignored Raiden not being fast enough to dodge Heat vision.
The gecko captured him in MGS4. Where was his speed then? Snake had to use the sniper rifle to save him. Raiden also struggled to tag Vamp. Where was the blinding speed then? Raiden got trapped under rubble before the Rex vs Ray fight where was the speed then?
At no moment in the series did anyone have trouble tagging or perceiving Raiden other than that a deus ex machina you keep refering to. He isnt this ultra fast Character who can move faster than the eye can perceive. There are way too many examples to the contrary. Let me guess different suit right?
The video in the lab was all i needed to see to prove that Superman will vaporize him with heat vision now whats your counter to that?
@arctika: Said the guy who said Supes could lift 1/4 of manhattan with no proof whatsoever. AND completely ignored what i said about asking fro feats backing up why you think so.
Yeah because I'm so sure someone on SUPERMAN'S level and FASTER than Raiden can't do that feat...no you ignored what I said but whatever you're probably the same dude as the other guy you literally are rinsing and repeating at this point.
Because his skillset doesn't involve flying towards a target. He is holding a blade that could resonate resulting in cutting for more than what it can connect, the sole reason George got nearly half of his body cut down even if Raiden got a good swing.
Whatever helps you sleep at night. I don't think anyone reading your arguments will actually believe what you are saying.
Funny, he never tanked an energy sword. Not that it makes a difference though. Keep thinking you have proven me wrong when you yourself couldn't even give substantial proof for his piercing resistance and try to make up for it with whatever you just thought up.
Yes it does, if you watch him blitzing DD and saving Lois two examples of using his speed with precision one for power/attacking the other for attacking while defending. Again that's assuming the blade could harm Supes and even tag him.
I'm pretty sure more people in here have agreed with what I've said and several have called you out on the cracks in your argument but sure, whatever you say bro.
And funny, Raiden never cut a kryptonian level being either. You know what I won't even repeat myself I can tell nothing is going to change your mind no matter who says to you despite how much it debunks your case.
My point is that Raiden's sword cut through something that could tank something Superman would die from, it was a strength feat, not a durability feat. Also unless you wanna claim heat vision is as strong as a nuke (which it isn't), how would this affect the fight. It's hardly in-character for Clark to just stay in the air and spam heat vision and even then Raiden's faster than the heat vision can tag him.
Has Superman ever been hurt on a molecular level before? No? Then there's zero reason to believe he could survive long with literally zero durability feats to go off of. You know what Molecules are right? the thing that literally makes up all life, skin, rocks, air and everything in between. Cuts way deeper than your average pocket knife.
The difference in that case is simple. In those examples the stat gap is large enough that it doesn't matter, unlike in this case where Raiden has the stats to not only compete, but overcome. Also as an aside, can't speak for the others but Mortal Kombat Sub-Zero hasn't hurt people molecularly before iirc (bit of a hazy memory on that point, assuming you are talking about MK Sub but whatevs, not important to this discussion).
Not gonna bother addressing the rest of the league since i like to hope we can agree that their irrelevant to this discussion, but as for Flash his best feat is moving whilst rain is frozen correct? well the thing is that Superman didn't see him moving at regular speeds, he was still slower than him and could barely tag him (the only reason Supes did at all was because Barry tripped, and even then it wasn't a proper punch, so he couldn't land anything that'd be close to properly outing Raiden)
On the other hand of the spectrum, Raiden was able to cut through this with no issues at regular speeds, whilst the rain was completely frozen no problem, so in terms of rain being frozen in time, Raiden uses it to far greater affect than Supes ever has.
T
And he only chest bumped at all is because Flash tripped and bent down, if he was an actually competent Flash instead of a cheap, MCU Spiderman imitation (at terms of narrative anyways), then Supes wouldn't have tagged him at all. And if you wanna claim that his shoulder bumps are equally strong as his punches, please stop, that's dumb and i shouldn't need to explain why. As for Raiden being faster, see my above statement.
Raiden has never moved this fast...
Gonna lump these 3 together as they share the same problem. That's all travel speed and isn't applicable in combat situations. travel speed =/= combat speed.
Nice staring feat, shame you can't actually tag Flash with a punch worth a darn.
Adorable, even pre-MGR raiden could do that (and Snake's dodged mach 7 railgun shots before btw, way better then some random fodder solider has ever done)
Yeah, barely tagging Flash after constantly missing a bunch of swings and then should bashing him which only KO'd him if you reaaaaaally wanna wank it, so impressive next to a guy who can swing his sword dozens of time in the same speed condition...(this is sarcasm btw)
Superman's durability tanking a nuke exploding while fighting DD head on...I don't believe Raiden(MGS) would survive this...proof he's ever tanked a nuke to the face?
Superman doesn't create nuke level heat with his heat, nor the radiation produced by nukes in order to harm Raiden, so whether he could survive this or not is irrelevant. Also if it weren't for the sun's energy Clark would've died here, so you can barely say Superman survived.
Or literally being hit with the force of another kryptonian(Zod) into several skyscrapers then walking from it as if styrofoam fell on him?
I remember when Superman makes explosions with his punches, as well as when his heat vision could cause this kind of destruction. Oh wait, they never have, so Raiden has no need to survive something Clark can't produce himself.
At the heart of the issue, you haven't debunked how Raiden's sword doesn't cut right through him, and with his faster speeds, durability to last and much higher skill (oh yeah, did we mention Raiden lead his own soldier platoon when he was only 10 years old? He's way more skilled than supes as a bonus), Raiden wins. Can we please end this, i'm bored of this and got CaV's to work on.
Skilled as a kid doesn't mean he'd beat Superman though. Batman is also skilled and smarter than Raiden, Snake etc so....The problem is Raiden is not faster than Supes, for one second there's no proof that the sword again would even CUT much less kill Superman. What proof are be going by exactly? lol because he cut a huge weapon=that can kill Supes? I'm sorry but this is just so flawed on so many levels...
Yeah Raiden has no answer for Supes blunt force, his heat vision or his speed but by all means keep thinking Raiden can magically keep up with a Kryptonian's powers. Funny you say Raiden's "faster speeds" yet the video posted proves otherwise, couldn't even save a kid. More skilled? At hand to hand maybe, so is Batman doesn't mean he'd beat Supes though. Superman wins, if you wish it's best to agree to disagree but not changing my initial stance.
Doesn't matter when he's durable enough to tank a weapon that wouldn't hurt Supes to begin with given that he's already faced stronger foes, attacks etc the molecular point is moot here.
Yes, I was talking about MK Sub and actually yes he has molecular level feats FTR as we saw in MK X and the tie in comics but nevermind that. He's done things all the others have done in some cases faster and more efficient. Point is just because someone can control something on molecular level doesn't mean it can automatically harm someone as durable as Superman. You seem to think because this blade can cut inanimate objects and humans, that means it can cut Kryptonians? I just don't agree with this at all.
Ok, but even WW is worth mentioning and Flash's speed point is, yes we all know Flash is faster but he still managed to spot Flash moving while everyone and everything else was a statue. I don't agree that Raiden's speed is faster than Supes or Flash, so I'll agree to disagree there. Flash was staggering sure but he also was unbalanced in dodging Supes attacks, and therefore allowed Supes to chest bump him/each other at least. Given the fact that Raiden couldn't save that kid where Supes had already saved Lois in the same situation tells me Raiden is no where near Supes or Flash speed honestly.
I don't see how the rain being frozen in one case is faster or better than the other, you clearly see the debris frozen in mid air and everyone statues in that Superman/Flash scene...I don't see how that's any worse/slower than rain frozen in Raiden's gif.
I think you have your history mixed up, you do know Spider-Man came out after Flash and that Spidey is actually Marvel's Flash in many ways right? But not to go off topic, I assume you're talking on live screen but ask any comic fan Wally has always been the wise ass flash as has Bart long before Spiderman hit the big screen, and DCAU Wally too ftr. I agree with you on that physical punches aren't equal to chest bumps but that Supes still managed to tag him even by putting Barry off balance enough to do so, that was my point. I don't see Barry or Supes being slower than Raiden honestly.
I never said travel speed vs combat speed, but speed in general...being my point. You want to make a case Raiden has fast combat speed, ok but normal speed is used and vital in combat such as Supes saving Lois so.....
Point is he was able to SPOT Flash moving where nobody else can or ever has before, I seriously doubt Raiden would fair better against Flash or Supes. Has nothing to do with "staring"
And yet no he hasn't, first off all Snake can't and never did secondly again talking about Raiden here yet he failed to save George in that same situation so this alone proves Supes is much faster than Raiden.
I don't doubt Supes missing Flash but I've already addressed this point why I posted it.
Ok, when did I ever say or claim that Sueprman creates nuke level heat?(although in the comics he creates hotter depending on the story) but yeah for DCEU I never said such, but my point is Raiden never tanked a nuke going off in his FACE like Supes has....nevermind being able to survive it. It is relevant because it proves that Supes durability far surpasses Raiden's. Ummm that's like saying "if it's not for Raiden's sword and enhancements he'd be a mere human" so I don't know what bringing up the source of Supes power has to do with anything.
At any rate, let's just agree to disagree clearly we're not going to agree and that's fine but I'm keeping my stance.
Superman is stronger than Raiden by some extent. Superman is far more mobile & faster than Raiden. He can fly, run fast, react fast, punch fast, see things in slow motion, etc. Superman is also more durable than Raiden. Superman knows that Raiden has a sword that can possibly harm him, possibly. Superman has heat vision that can melt/burn Raiden. Superman has freeze breath that can slow him down.
Superman has far more advantages and far more varied ways to actually beat Raiden, than Raiden has. Raiden's only chance is to hope his sword can cut Superman like Armstrong. Supes won't give him that chance.
Superman can knock his sword away from him and keep Raiden's biggest advantage away from him. Supes can take him to space. etc.
oh boy "piercing durability". Superman has been shot by batman's machine guns and they bounced off his skin. In man of steel he was shot again, bullets bounced off his skin.
I expected better from you
Are you actually comparing bullets to Raiden's sword, which have cut bulletproof mechs on a daily basis?
50 caliber bullets than kryptonians no sell is actually far more impressive than being hit by sword. Granted raidens sword isnt ordinary. But saying superman has never been hit by a sword so it makes him atuomatically weak to is just plain joke. He was directly hit on the head with 30 caliber machines guns and no damage at all.
Raiden is also nowhere near as fast as superman, shown in the video aswell on how he was unable to blitz armstrong. yet superman did it to an actual terrorist and he can also move fast enough to actually make bullet timers completely frozen. Not to mention superman has flight, versatility, strenght etc.
I love it how people think that DD's bones hurting Supes(while next to kryptonite which weakens Superman) they assume = Raiden's sword hurting Superman, such flawed logic lol...that's as bad an argument as saying "team A beat team B in baseball, and team B beat team C already therefore if team A faces team C, it's automatic win for team A" lol
Doomsday never penetrated superman with his bones. In comics yes in the movie no, he has not even damaged supes once. Doomsday could pierce him only due the fact that he was right beside the kryptonite spear. Had the spear not been involved, god knows how many hours supes and doomsday would have fought,.
strenght winner superman obviously. How on earth are thinking that small robot is anywhere near the weight of a building superman carried. And he actually barely lifts in meanwhile superman carried it away like piece of cake.
Winner superman.
Speed.
Prove that helicopter rotates at 8 seconds. Secondly
mach 3 bullet travels 1000 meter per second and wonder woman was faster than that bullet, yet complete frozen in her place compared to superman and flash for about 30 seconds while they fought.
Winner superman easly.
Lmao are you out of your mind comparring what it looks like a completely shit punches to nuclear strike and calling it close? How deluded are you and im sorry for the insult.
Superman shitstomps. '
Skill
obvioysly raiden stomps, but speed is key factor for supes.
Sword discussion
What makes you think excelsus is more durable than supes? Also superman has no sold 30 caliber bullet and lesser durable kryptonians in unadapted state no sold 50 caliber GAU 8. Where are the feats of excelsus?
Conclusion while raiden has the skill he falls short with abilties, superman turns him into paste.
Raiden stomps. Cuts Clark in half with his molecule cutting sword.
with that logic, nuke should have disintegreated clark completely. Since nuke can rip apart not only molecules but also atoms. Yet it didnt happen. Also seeing the feats of speed people are posting, he aint tagging superman.
Also there are herald level characters with insane durability that have never been shown to have "molecular cutting sword" resistance. How the hell does it even make a sense.
strenght winner superman obviously. How on earth are thinking that small robot is anywhere near the weight of a building superman carried. And he actually barely lifts in meanwhile superman carried it away like piece of cake.
Winner superman.
Speed.
Prove that helicopter rotates at 8 seconds. Secondly
mach 3 bullet travels 1000 meter per second and wonder woman was faster than that bullet, yet complete frozen in her place compared to superman and flash for about 30 seconds while they fought.
Winner superman easly.
Lmao are you out of your mind comparring what it looks like a completely shit punches to nuclear strike and calling it close? How deluded are you and im sorry for the insult.
Superman shitstomps. '
Skill
obvioysly raiden stomps, but speed is key factor for supes.
Sword discussion
What makes you think excelsus is more durable than supes? Also superman has no sold 30 caliber bullet and lesser durable kryptonians in unadapted state no sold 50 caliber GAU 8. Where are the feats of excelsus?
Conclusion while raiden has the skill he falls short with abilties, superman turns him into paste.
@supermanforever: these users don't even know what molecules mean and ignore that any attack done to the body attacks molecules. By their logic, any character with no "molecular resistance" can be cut by Raiden. laughable.
strenght winner superman obviously. How on earth are thinking that small robot is anywhere near the weight of a building superman carried. And he actually barely lifts in meanwhile superman carried it away like piece of cake.
Winner superman.
Speed.
Prove that helicopter rotates at 8 seconds. Secondly
mach 3 bullet travels 1000 meter per second and wonder woman was faster than that bullet, yet complete frozen in her place compared to superman and flash for about 30 seconds while they fought.
Winner superman easly.
Lmao are you out of your mind comparring what it looks like a completely shit punches to nuclear strike and calling it close? How deluded are you and im sorry for the insult.
Superman shitstomps. '
Skill
obvioysly raiden stomps, but speed is key factor for supes.
Sword discussion
What makes you think excelsus is more durable than supes? Also superman has no sold 30 caliber bullet and lesser durable kryptonians in unadapted state no sold 50 caliber GAU 8. Where are the feats of excelsus?
Conclusion while raiden has the skill he falls short with abilties, superman turns him into paste.
and going through why his blade will cut superman down has already been proven by the above posts
srsly dude you post and then thinkr you think before you post? Slowed time to make raindops crawl. Yes because raindrops are faster than mach 3 bullets who superman was faster than by long mile.
@supermanforever: these users don't even know what molecules mean and ignore that any attack done to the body attacks molecules. By their logic, any character with no "molecular resistance" can be cut by Raiden. laughable.
i could list some herald level characters who dont have "molecular resistance" lmao :D
Also if we go by that logic, superman survived nuke which actually does not only rip apart molecules but atoms and even subatomic particles. So yeah he kinda does have resistance in that sense.
Also so far i have not seen anyone posting reasonable feat of why Raiden has better piercing with his sword than 50 caliber gau 8 gun.
@jashugan: molecule level foggy Nelson from mcu daredevil confirmed. Lol how you vanquish common sense just so your precious character can win is beyond me. Because a random attack and an attack that specifically cuts away at a molecular level is the same thing lol.
DCEU Fanboys: Vanquishers If common sense and logic
Lol how you vanquish common sense just so your precious character
my precious character? Who is that?
an attack that specifically cuts away at a molecular level is the same thing lol
Cutting away at a molecular level is not impressive when your opponent has clear cut durability feats showing that they have very strong molecular bonds. It is now up to the users using the "molecular level" argument to now prove that Raiden can cut someone with molecular bonds this strong.
By the logic you're using above. Raiden would be able to harm or even cut many characters who have no "molecular level" feats, yet it isn't proven within his game at all.
Raiden failed to cut Armstrong with his original HF blade, Armstrong with minimal level of strength broke the sword. He managed to cut armstrong with the Muramasa after damaging him with it and then stabbing him in his core. This is the most durable character Raiden has ever defeated. A character whose durability isn't yet on Superman's level
Raiden when dying, low-powered, mangled (Lost and arm and had his lower body crushed), bleeding out, and after a long battle with vamp, holds back a 60.000 ton ship for about a minute or so before he fails. Mind you, the fact he held it back for a minute shows enough that if he was full-power and peak condition, he wouldn't be in such trouble.
@supermanforever: these users don't even know what molecules mean and ignore that any attack done to the body attacks molecules. By their logic, any character with no "molecular resistance" can be cut by Raiden. laughable.
I love it how people think that DD's bones hurting Supes(while next to kryptonite which weakens Superman) they assume = Raiden's sword hurting Superman, such flawed logic lol...that's as bad an argument as saying "team A beat team B in baseball, and team B beat team C already therefore if team A faces team C, it's automatic win for team A" lol
Doomsday never penetrated superman with his bones. In comics yes in the movie no, he has not even damaged supes once. Doomsday could pierce him only due the fact that he was right beside the kryptonite spear. Had the spear not been involved, god knows how many hours supes and doomsday would have fought,.
Yeah, I agree that in the end of BVS the only reason why DD's bone pertruding out of his arm was able to impale Supes chest was due to the kryptonite weakening Supes. Some assume that DD's bone hurt Superman(which wasn't the case or he would have been bleeding the whole fight like the comics as you mentioned or the new DOS animated movie) the live film wasn't the case. That's true would have lasted a long time, and DD seemed to be adapting to literally everything pretty damn fast.
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