Rahm Kota Vs. Ven Zallow

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ricochicomalico

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Rules:

Standard morals and equipment.

No prep or prior knowledge.

Fight takes place in the sacked Jedi temple, and combatants start 15 meters apart.

Round 1: Sabers only.

Round 2: Force powers.

Round 3: All out.

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WollfMyth209

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Zallow.

Kota.

Can go either way.

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buildhare

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Not familiar with Zallow but Kota is Kota so he loses everything.

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GeorgeWBush

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Kota loses a duel everytime, takes force, as for all out Zallow can probably kill him in a duel with a few rounds going to Rahm for TK use

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Erkan12

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Zallow.

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Soup95

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Zallow

Kota

Gonna go with Zallow

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deactivated-5a20a68641bc7

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I'd place Zallow quite firmly as the better swordsman, and think that whilst Kota is a superior Force user the difference is by a lesser margin. Zallow should win.

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Greysentinel365

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Kota

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Grinningf0x

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#10  Edited By Grinningf0x
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Greysentinel365

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@grinningf0x: On par with someone who had "perfected" sabre combat and has far more powerful force showings.

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Grinningf0x

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Greysentinel365

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#13  Edited By Greysentinel365
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Azronger

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#14  Edited By Azronger

Kota stomps

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In-sidiousvader

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@azronger: I think this is closer though, Decieved Malgus was an absolute beast and do remember that Malgus was rage amped at Zallow for "killing" Aleena. So Zallow put up a fight against an enraged Malgus and in my opinion Deceived Malgus (rage amped) > (start of the book) Starkiller. So eventually perhaps Kota wins but this is not a stomp.

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killbilly

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#16  Edited By killbilly  Moderator

@in-sidiousvader said:

@azronger: in my opinion Deceived Malgus (rage amped) > (start of the book) Starkiller.

Out of curiosity, may I ask why?

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dark-sith123

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Rahm

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Strike3

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Rahm may just need to wait for an opening. I believe Zallow being flashy got him killed.

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In-sidiousvader

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@killbilly: Because of his showings during the hope trailer the short story "the third lesson" (he fights two jedi Knights after having a mountain buried on him, then the novel describes Malgus while in a "weakened" state due to Aleena giving him compassion, to force Aryn Leneer (who would give starkiller a fight herself) to give ground and make her arms quiver while doing so.

Some of Malgus' showings

Malgus spun into a high, Force-augmented kick that hit Zallow in the chest and sent him flying backward ten meters.

Malgus lands a physical blow on Leneer with enough force to send her slamming into a rock ten meters away where she spits out a mouthful of blood:

He drives Leneer to her knees:

Malgus’s strength drove her to her knees.

She was unready for the blow. The Force-augmented impact exploded a spark shower in her brain and sent her cartwheeling away from Malgus; she slammed into a rock and landed on her side ten meters away. Adrenaline pulled her to her feet, though she swayed unsteadily. She spat a mouthful of blood and held both lightsabers at the ready.

Malgus kicks Leneer in the face, stunning her and causing her to lose teeth and see double:

He pushed her blade to the side with his own and kicked her in the face. The strength behind the blow blew through her defenses, caused her to see stars, loosed teeth, and sent her head over heels backward. She landed on her knees, stunned, seeing double.

He cracks a marble table by slamming his fist down:

In the hall outside, he slammed a fist down on the secretary’s desk, putting a crack on the marble top.

Malgus kicks a Jedi into a building:

Malgus loosed a furious series of overhand strikes that forced the Zabrak to retreat rapidly. Sidestepping a stab from the Jedi, Malgus rode his motion into a Force-augmented spinning side kick that hit the Jedi in the ribs and sent him cartwheeling into the wall of nearby building.

An injured Malgus snatches Aryn's lightsaber as quick as a sand viper:

Despite his wound, the Sith slapped aside Aryn’s Force-hold on the blade and snatched it out of the air, as quick as a sand viper.

Malgus forms a shield out of his lightsaber:

The red line of his weapon spun so fast in his hand it expanded into a shield.

He forms a red smear with his blade:

He closed the distance between them rapidly. The red line of Malgus's lightsaber moved so quickly it blurred into a red smear.

Malgus perceives dozens of blaster bolts with perfect clarity (which can be interpreted as seeing them in slow-motion), and proceeds to kill three soldiers via returning their blaster fire:

Malgus, nested deeply in the Force, perceived the dozens of bolts and their trajectory with perfect clarity. Without breaking stride he whipped his blade left, right, angled it ten degrees, and turned three bolts back on the soldiers who’d fired them, killing all three.

Decieved and The Third Lesson (respectivley) all quotes go to Nova who created an excellent respect thread.

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dark-sith123

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I can safely say Prime Malgus is more powerful than early TFU Starkiller but I'm not sure if the same can be said about Decieved Malgus.

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In-sidiousvader

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@dark-sith123: Keep in mind Decieved Malgus was nerfed because of his love for Aleena. I am talking about the guy who invaded the jedi temple crushing throats and taking lives.

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Greysentinel365

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@in-sidiousvader: So when are you going to post the impressive feats for Malgus?

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killbilly

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#23  Edited By killbilly  Moderator

@in-sidiousvader: All highly impressive feats, but I can't say I find them more impressive then:

1. Blasting an army of hundreds of droids with enough force to form an artificial hurricane from their parts.

2. Powering the hyperdrive engines of an enormous ship so as to carve a valley into Raxus Prime.

3. Instantly overwhelming Kazdan Paratus's defenses with Force lightning.

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#24 killbilly  Moderator
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In-sidiousvader

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Greysentinel365

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@in-sidiousvader: ......... Actually he has quite a lot of them. You posted some of his least impressive honestly.

Rahm still wrecks this.

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In-sidiousvader

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@in-sidiousvader: ......... Actually he has quite a lot of them. You posted some of his least impressive honestly.

Rahm still wrecks this.

What did I miss?

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Greysentinel365

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@in-sidiousvader: Blowing tonnes of rubble away, holding a taking off shuttle in place with TK etc etc etc.

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In-sidiousvader

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@greysentinel365: The rubble is impressive, but the other is near the end of the book isnt it? Trying not to have the Malgus the breaks adrass's neck with his bare hands and literally scorches flesh whenever he uses his lightning.

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In-sidiousvader

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@in-sidiousvader: All highly impressive feats, but I can't say I find them more impressive then:

1. Blasting an army of hundreds of droids with enough force to form an artificial hurricane from their parts.

Did he do this in his fight with Kota or after he developed more as a fighter

2. Powering the hyperdrive engines of an enormous ship so as to carve a valley into Raxus Prime.

Talking about Starkiller when he fights Kota not when he fights Paratus.

3. Instantly overwhelming Kazdan Paratus's defenses with Force lightning.

the same expalination as the last.

None of these quotes are applicable for the Starkiller I specified.

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killbilly

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#32  Edited By killbilly  Moderator

@in-sidiousvader: He accomplished these feats during his mission to Raxus Prime which occurred only a few weeks after his fight with Kota. Unless you think the growth Galen would have experienced during this time was truly significant, I don't see why Rahm wouldn't be capable of replicating them considering he matched Galen in their fight.

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In-sidiousvader

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@killbilly: He cant replicate any of those feats because he cant utilize force lightning and his telekinesis is not nearly as developed.

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killbilly

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#34  Edited By killbilly  Moderator

@in-sidiousvader: Whether Rahm's TK is as developed or not is irrelevant. He matched Galen's own Force attacks with barriers or TK of his own meaning his magnitude should be on the same level.

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@in-sidiousvader: Galen can use lightning and does so vs Kota. Kota just deflects it.

What's Malgus got that can match these as of Deceived?

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Despite being this powerful. Kota laughs off his TK and lightning.

He raised his left hand and with the power of the dark side unleashed a bolt of Sith lightning at the renegade Jedi.

Kota only laughed. Raising his left hand in a move that was a mirror image of the apprentice's own, he sent the lightning arcing back to its source. The energy struck both of them, hurling them apart.

TFU Novelisation

This time he pushed telekinetically as he came, attempting to knock Kota's feet out from under him before bringing his blade to bear.

Again, however, Kota deflected his Force energies back at him. Again they were pushed apart.

TFU Novelization

And then utterly wrecks him with TK of his own.

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Zallow simply has nothing to match this.

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Dawn_of_Ages

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#36  Edited By Dawn_of_Ages

Kota wins.

Didn't know Kota was this powerful, lol. It makes Vader ragdolling him even more impressive.

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Azronger

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#37  Edited By Azronger

@dawn_of_ages said:

Kota wins.

Didn't know Kota was this powerful, lol. It makes Vader ragdolling him even more impressive.

Oh, Kota's on another level compared to what was presented even above.

So to establish a premise, Kota is fully capable of matching Galen Marek's Force power at this point:

He raised his left hand and with the power of the dark side unleashed a bolt of Sith lightning at the renegade Jedi.

Kota only laughed. Raising his left hand in a move that was a mirror image of the apprentice's own, he sent the lightning arcing back to its source. The energy struck both of them, hurling them apart.

The apprentice broke off the attempt, blinking smoke away from his eyes. His anger intensified. He was the first to his feet and running as soon as his boots touched the deck. He felt completely weightless, yet full of momentum, like a hurled spear. His red blade cut a blur through the air, aimed hard at Kota's throat.

The Jedi general ducked and swept his green lightsaber up and down in a lazy attempt to catch him as he went by. That was a move the apprentice had long ago learned to avoid by tucking his head down closer to his center of gravity and rolling in midair, then kicking himself back at his opponent off the nearest wall. This time he pushed telekinetically as he came, attempting to knock Kota's feet out from under him before bringing his blade to bear.

Again, however, Kota deflected his Force energies back at him. Again they were pushed apart.

More cautiously the apprentice circled him, slicing chairs to pieces as he walked and sending the glowing fragments at his enemy's head. Anger made him eager to attack, but he knew better than to give in to it. He hadn't been humiliated. He had successfully tested Kota's defenses. Now that he knew a direct attack would probably fail, he had to find another way to get closer to the man. Or to make the Jedi come to him.

--The Force Unleashed

As you can see, all Galen Marek can get out of Kota with his telekinetic and lightning assaults is a chuckle. He only slightly manages to push Kota back with his Force attacks, while also being hurled back himself. Yes, this happened before any of Marek's big feats, but any large time skip between the missions to Nar Shaddaa, Raxus Prime and Felucia doesn’t exist. As soon as Marek reports of his successes to Vader, the Dark Lord immediately sends him off to another (links 1 and 2). Marek’s fight with Shaak Ti takes place only weeks after his duel with Rahm Kota at best. It would be a huge stretch to argue any sort of large gap between Nar Shaddaa Marek and Felucia Marek, especially when such a gap has never been stated to exist. Marek is for all intents and purposes operating on the same power level against Shaak Ti that he did against Rahm Kota, yet the Jedi General is able to stalemate him in a contest of Force power. Kota should thus logically be able to replicate all of the feats I'll list for Marek:

  • THE CORELLIAN CORVETTE: A few things to take into account for this feat: first, it would take the Apprentice hours to run around the ship (link) with Force-augmented speed, which implies it is at the very least hundreds of meters long, considering how fast Force users can go; second, it was also stated to possibly take the Rodian scavengers present on the planet months to turn the ship into scrap (link), so it is indeed very large. Now here is the feat in full (link), and for a brief overview, essentially the Apprentice’s lightning generated enough joules for the corvette to move the same distance in seconds that would’ve taken the Apprentice’s Force-augmented speed hours, and had enough residual potency for the ship to have moved dozens of seconds even after that.
  • KAZDAN PARATUS: On Raxus Prime, the Apprentice confronts an army of droid golems which he then ragdolls and forms a hurricane out of (link). The thing to note here is that these are not your typical droids, but animatronic puppets animated and powered by Kazdan Paratus’ Force abilities (link). Through Kazdan Paratus, the droid golems were able to utilize Force abilities such as telekinesis, Force shield and Force drain like any other Force sensitive (link), making them for all intents and purposes identical to typical Force users. Given this, it would not be inaccurate to say that the Apprentice outright ragdolled a literal army of Force users numbering in the “thousands," which were capable of holding off the forces of the Galactic Empire for years (link). After disposing of Kazdan Paratus’ minions, the Apprentice comes face-to-face with the mad Jedi, and ragdolls him too (link). So the Apprentice can ragdoll a guy who is powerful enough to animate seemingly thousands of droids with telekinesis over the radius of kilometers and grant them the ability to touch the Force.
  • THE FAUX JEDI TEMPLE: After his fight with Kazdan Paratus, the Apprentice muses how he could level the crazed Jedi’s junk Jedi Temple with a single Force push (link). The Temple was stated by Juno Eclipse to look exactly like the real one on Coruscant (link), being stated to be one kilometer in height (link), and while they may not be completely identical, it is still obviously enormous.
  • SHAAK TI: During the Apprentice’s fight with Shaak Ti, special note was given to the Jedi Master’s ability to telepathically dominate all life on Felucia, a planet completely overgrown with vegetation and all sorts of organisms (link). Yet, the Apprentice overpowers her with a Force repulse, with the following comments emphasizing his superiority: “Shaak Ti’s command over Felucia was impressive. She communed with its native species, commanding its flora and fauna to attack. But even with an entire planet at her command, she could not hold Starkiller. No one could…” (link). Further extolling the impressiveness of the Apprentice’s showings against Shaak Ti, the Jedi Master could not only dominate the Felucians - all of which are inherently Force sensitive (link) and the most powerful ones “are among the most talented natural Force-users in the galaxy” (link) - to do her bidding, but she had also nerfed their connection to the Force (link) - and with the Felucian community being spread across the entire planet (link), it is even further indication of her global influence - and simultaneously transformed the entire planet into a light side nexus (link) The effect her death had on the planet is also accounted in great detail, further demonstrating the influence she held over the inhabitants and Force alignment of the entire planet (link) And given the light side nexus Shaak Ti had fashioned, the Apprentice, as a darksider, would have been hindered in his fight against her, making his feats all the more astonishing.

So yeah… Kota one-shots Zallow. And indeed, Vader can ragdoll Kota with seeming impunity years before his prime.

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Azronger

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#38  Edited By Azronger
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killbilly

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#39 killbilly  Moderator

Excellent post Azronger. Note, I myself stated hundreds of droids instead of thousands and weeks instead of days so people wouldn't accuse me of "wanking" as has occurred recently.

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@azronger I cannot argue with sound logic and wisdom beyond my own. I kneel and concede my arguments before you master.

and thus Kota stomps

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killbilly

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#41  Edited By killbilly  Moderator
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#43 killbilly  Moderator
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@killbilly: I feel foolish, but what does that emoticon mean.

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killbilly

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#45 killbilly  Moderator

@in-sidiousvader: It's representative of someone trying to keep a straight face in situations where that is exceedingly difficult.

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Azronger

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@in-sidiousvader: He is not your master; he wanks Starkiller for the sake of Starkiller, when in reality Galen is only a tool for Sheev's glory. Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any debater. Learn to know the ways of Sheevism, and you can be assured of certain victory in any debate you enter.

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All hail The Grand Sheevite!

All hail Sheev!

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killbilly

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#49 killbilly  Moderator

This is getting a bit too culty for me...

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