Qui Gon Jinn vs. Shaak Ti (Lightsabers only)

*Ti as of The Force Unleashed

*Duel takes place on neutral ground

vs.

@silver2467@shootingnova@thevivas@jkbart@i_like_swords@noobsnowman@wollfmyth209@dccomicsrule2011 @

Ti honestly might be able to take this...tho Jinn won't go down easy.

Shaak.

Ti.

Shaak Ti in a great battle.

I'm leaning Jinn.

Liam

I'm not entirely sure. Either Jinn wins via his Maul feat, or Ti outlasts him with her youth, force power, and more energy conservative options in lightsaber combat.

I'm thinking Qui-Gon.

Ti.

Do you mean getting stabbed in the abdomen :)

I guess both Jinn and Ti have something in common. :)

Either way or Shaak Ti

He probably means fighting evenly/better than Maul for a while on Tatooine.

@zaluk:

I don't see the fighting better portion of the selection anywhere.

The Jedi meets my first blow, blocking it. He has expected my flying maneuver. If an opponent can read you, the fight is over. I don't like that the Jedi was perfectly prepared for my first blow. Within seconds, I throw away my usual combinations and strategies. This Jedi seems to know how I will move before I do. But he cannot match my strength. I sense this. And I feel his surprise at this. Yet he does not let his puzzlement slow him down. I tell myself that this man has never met an enemy like me before, and it frightens him.

Your fear is justified. Prepare to die. I accelerate my pace, calling on my anger to increase my power. My footwork has never been so brilliant. I use the shifting sand as resistance. My lightness and quickness will defeat this man, with his large body, his heavy movements. But he is graceful, this Jedi. The sand doesn't see to hamper him. He is never off balance, no matter where or how I strike.

Our blows send shudders through my body. He meets my strength. Our lightsabers clash and sizzle. Dust and sand rise around us. I never lose my rhythm. The Jedi calls to the boy, tells him to go back to the ship. The cowardly boy runs off. After I defeat my enemy, I will find the second Jedi. But I must confess that this Jedi is a challenge. If I leap, he is with me. If I turn, he follows me. He meets my ferocity with his own. His lightsaber swirls and hums, and several times comes closer than I like. It is because of my wound. It has slowed me down somewhat. It is almost imperceptible, but it is there. The Jedi has an advantage. I am not at my best.

This realization sends more rage pumping into my body. I am angry at myself, but I use the anger to fuel the dark side. I feel the Force come from the Jedi and I send it back to him, showing him that I, too, have a connection, and it is stronger than his. I launch a furious counterattack. I feel like the Jedi is beginning to tire, and triumph rises like a red mist before my eyes. I gain the advantage. I am winning. I will defeat him. I have been surprised at his skill, but now I am confident of victory. I will savor each moment of this battle. Even through his fatigue, his blows still have power. He is a large man with impressive strength. He will fall heavily, like a monument.

And of course, from most cannocial source. Qui Gon is shit faced afterwards:

To me, this is Jinn fighting better. He was able to read Maul's movements, forcing him to change his tactics. It's implied that if he hadn't, he would have been killed.

Even if one says this isn't fighting better, Jinn still performed better than Ti likely would.

This is an ambiguous assertion deterring from the text. In any case, Maul lamenting his inability to kill his opponent a single hit isn't conclusive to Jinn fighting better, otherwise you'd have to argue that every battle spanning the length of 2 attacks is a fight in the defenders favour. Is Fisto fighting better than Sidious for reacting to his initial assault? Is Lumiya fighting better than Luke on Tepheron for reacting to his blows despite being driven back? And again, It is pure conjecture that Maul was forced to change tactics, rather than a decision based to aid his own comfort in fighting Jinn. Regardless, switching stylistic patterns mid-fight isn't a hallmark of inferiority, but rather a tell of adaptability and versatility.

You're applying your personal inference to a fight, and an inference which sufficiently unclear that it leaves some sort of leeway to your stance. In any case, Maul's personal thoughts on his own performance are inline with his character. He is confident in his abilities, yet is a perfectionist whom might be stifled at any strong opponent, including one's who aren't necessarily superseding his own prowess.

An example of this, is his reaction to Palpatine's praise of Silus. Maul was never in any danger of loosing against Silus, to which his master forthought. But he was "unsettled" and only prevailed once drawing upon his anger. The situation is mirrored with the brief skirmish on tatoinee. Maul enters a fight with negative circumstances, in the form of a leg wound causing his movements to have slowed me down somewhat, yet he's still taking Jinn to fatigue in less than 40 seconds of exchanging blows.

@zaluk said:

Even if one says this isn't fighting better, Jinn still performed better than Ti likely would.

I'm all ears. And while I don't mean to take a superior stance, I still believe the burden of proof is yours to provide without the ambiguity.

Feats for Qui Gon outside of TPM?

Qui Gon JInn

shaak ti stomps

Bump!

Qui-gon has a certain set of skills that will allow him to finder her, and kill her.

Qui-gon uses a jedi mind trick and she bites her own sabre

Shaak.

@killerwasp: Lol.

Jinn should be more skilled but he has inferior stamina, inferior power to sustain his physicals and his form probably gives him a marginal disadvantage. Shaak should take it.

@th310rbit: I agree with you.

Probably Shaak.

An argument can be made for Jinn in terms of pure skill, but Shaak outstrips him in every other area (Strength, Speed, Power, Stamina) and her own familiarity with Ataru and Mastery with Makashi might give her a somewhat slim advantage in terms of form, however slight.

However, the same can be said of Maul (who should honestly be more skilled than Jinn too) and Jinn still held out admirably.

Jinn puts up a good fight, but I feel he will go down soon after he begins to flag.

Bump

What are current opinions?

You can make the skill argument for Qui-Gon but Shaak Ti is easily better in every other area

In her Prime, I would put her in top Jedi of her area. It would go something like:

1. Yoda
2. Mace
3. Anakin
4. Obi-Wan
5. Shaak Ti

Granted that list doesn't exclusively factor in dueling

Shaak.

Shaak

Qui-Gon.

Shaak. IIRC Kenobi held her in higher regard.

Shaak

the one who's one of the best swordsman in the order should take the blade, yeah

Not Ti

Post what you're referring to?

But... they were both regarded as 'one of the best swordsmen in the order'...

@kbroskywalker: @frankenmidget:

Shaak. IIRC Kenobi held her in higher regard.

Post what you're referring to?

I don't think Kenobi ever compared her to Jinn, nor assessed her skill as a swordsman.

Regarding Kenobi's opinion all we have is him regarding her as the most cunning Jedi he's ever met and being the likely candidate to fight alongside Mace against Sidious.

"Shaak Ti's the most cunning Jedi I've met. She's even taught me a few tricks."

Revenge of the Sith novelisation

"The search for Sidious began with us. We discovered the first clues. If he's thought to be on Coruscant, then we're the ones who should be there to capture him."

"Anakin, Mace and Shaak Ti are more than capable of seeing to that - - if Sidious is even there."

Labyrinth of Evil

@emperor339: I don't believe Shaak has a accolade saying she's one of the best in the entire history of the order, though. I could be wrong though.

Jinn was generally regarded as one of the best pure swordsmen the Order had ever seen.

Source: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

@guildseal:

Fair enough. Though honestly the era they lived in was the at the height of the order in terms of quality swordsman anyways, so that isn't saying all that much.

Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Kenobi, Shaak Ti, Plo, Seasee Tiin, Agen Kolar, Kit Fisto...

Shaak was one of the best in a time when the Order was at their best.

Even if they don't have outright statements claiming them to be the best in history they by all means should be.

---

But my point regarding Kbro's quote was that it doesn't specify which Combatant since even Shaak was considered thusly.

---

But if it comes down to comparing them as swordsmen, their quotes don't create an obvious distinction. Luckily we have feats for that.

Ti stomps

@emperor339:

*in the order's history yeah

@emperor339:

being one of the best in the order's prime < being the best in the order's history.

Kenobi also held Qui-gon in high regard so I fail to see this as an argument. Dooku also held Qui-gon in high regard.