Avatar image for johnnyz256
#1 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

Who would prevail in a no holds barred battle between Q and Infinity?

Location: DC Universe (no entity can interrupt the battle).

Please give your reasoning, if possible.

Avatar image for kinguranus
#2 Posted by KingUranus (263 posts) - - Show Bio

Infinity elule dominate.

Avatar image for shootingnova
#3 Posted by ShootingNova (25578 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel's Abstract of space? That Infinity?

Q is omnipotent, from what I've heard. Infinity definitely isn't. So, stomp.

Avatar image for Liveshiptrader
#4 Posted by Dextersinister (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Q can't be omnipotent by the very fact that there are other members of his species that can challenge him.

Avatar image for willpayton
#5 Posted by willpayton (19784 posts) - - Show Bio

Infinity stomps.

Avatar image for shootingnova
#6 Posted by ShootingNova (25578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dextersinister said:

@ShootingNova: Q can't be omnipotent by the very fact that there are other members of his species that can challenge him.

Then what I heard was fanwank. How powerful is Q?

Avatar image for thesecondopinion
#7 Posted by TheSecondOpinion (625 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Dextersinister said:

@ShootingNova: Q can't be omnipotent by the very fact that there are other members of his species that can challenge him.

Then what I heard was fanwank. How powerful is Q?

As powerful as the 2nd Post-Retconned Beyonder.

Avatar image for ssejllenrad
#8 Posted by ssejllenrad (13111 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Dextersinister said:

@ShootingNova: Q can't be omnipotent by the very fact that there are other members of his species that can challenge him.

Then what I heard was fanwank. How powerful is Q?

Well he was stated to be omnipotent. But as was already argued, that's bollocks. I don't even see him on a scale of comicbook nigh omnipotence. He is a high-end reality warper at what best he has shown. But since he hasn't really shown an upper limit, I'm willing to bet around Mxy level.

Avatar image for thesecondopinion
#9 Posted by TheSecondOpinion (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait... Make that 3rd Post-Retconned Beyonder.

Avatar image for shootingnova
#10 Posted by ShootingNova (25578 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheSecondOpinion said:

Wait... Make that 3rd Post-Retconned Beyonder.

Then Infinity blasts him into Oblivion.

@ssejllenrad: Then Infinity destroys, like I said before.

Avatar image for kingkronos
#11 Edited by kingkronos (2532 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: LOL, Q is a star-galaxy buster, not omnipotent. Infinity stomps.

Avatar image for johnnyz256
#12 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingkronos said:

@ShootingNova: LOL, Q is a star-galaxy buster, not omnipotent. Infinity stomps.

Infinity isn't omnipotent, either. And Q has only shown an inability to do something when dealing with his own kind.

Avatar image for sci_fi_rulez
#13 Posted by Sci_Fi_Rulez (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

Q isn't omnipotent,they can die and i bet infinity can built a stronger and more advanced Q weapon to destroy the Q.Infinity stomps!

Avatar image for picard1701
#14 Edited by Picard (1130 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Dextersinister said:

@ShootingNova: Q can't be omnipotent by the very fact that there are other members of his species that can challenge him.

Then what I heard was fanwank. How powerful is Q?

Well he was stated to be omnipotent. But as was already argued, that's bollocks. I don't even see him on a scale of comicbook nigh omnipotence. He is a high-end reality warper at what best he has shown. But since he hasn't really shown an upper limit, I'm willing to bet around Mxy level.

No, it's not. Show me Q's limitations other than other members of Q continuum. Some of Q's powers: he can create new realities and new life forms on a whim, he can immediately transport himself and others to any place and time in history of the universe, he can stop time on a whim, he can change people and objects into animals, he can shrink people and other objects, he can erase people from existence, he can resurrect the dead, he can phase through objects, he can take any shape or form he pleases, he can change orbits of planets and other celestial bodies, he even said that he can change gravitational constant of the universe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xdbPhnfFEI

What else? He is all knowing and immortal etc. So Q wins, unless you can convince me otherwise?

Avatar image for johnnyz256
#15 Edited by JohnnyZ256 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

Avatar image for onedoesnotsimplywalkintomordor
#16 Posted by OneDoesNotSimplyWalkIntoMordor (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyZ256 said:

Yes indeed it has since Infinity is Eternity's other face. Infinity is the space of Eternity as Eternity is the time of Infinity. If one is destroyed; the other one goes with it simply because they are one of the same. Does one not simply recall this? One does not simply know that Infinity is the other aspect of Eternity. And one does not simply remember that Eternity has been destroyed infinite number of times.

Avatar image for johnnyz256
#17 Edited by JohnnyZ256 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, you're right. Thanos with the IG defeated Eternity, correct?

Avatar image for fetts
#18 Posted by Fetts (5647 posts) - - Show Bio
@Picard said:

@ssejllenrad said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Dextersinister said:

@ShootingNova: Q can't be omnipotent by the very fact that there are other members of his species that can challenge him.

Then what I heard was fanwank. How powerful is Q?

Well he was stated to be omnipotent. But as was already argued, that's bollocks. I don't even see him on a scale of comicbook nigh omnipotence. He is a high-end reality warper at what best he has shown. But since he hasn't really shown an upper limit, I'm willing to bet around Mxy level.

No, it's not. Show me Q's limitations other than other members of Q continuum. Some of Q's powers: he can create new realities and new life forms on a whim, he can immediately transport himself and others to any place and time in history of the universe, he can stop time on a whim, he can change people and objects into animals, he can shrink people and other objects, he can erase people from existence, he can resurrect the dead, he can phase through objects, he can take any shape or form he pleases, he can change orbits of planets and other celestial bodies, he even said that he can change gravitational constant of the universe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xdbPhnfFEI

What else? He is all knowing and immortal etc. So Q wins, unless you can convince me otherwise?

I used to share the same reasoning. However, Q has stated/implied that humans become even more powerful than the Q. By that very reason, the Q cannot be fully omnipotent. I'd have to say that they're neigh-omnipotent beings. 
 
Also Q is not omniscient. He's definitely close to it but not quite. He doesn't everything about people. For example, he once stated to Picard "Had I known you had a weakness to women I would have made my appearance as a female." (TNG: Qpid) 
Avatar image for kryptonianpride
#19 Posted by kryptonianpride (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

Q with a snap of his finger

Avatar image for johnnyz256
#20 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fetts:

It's possible that Q intentionally reduces his own knowledge in order to make his own existence bearable. Imagine if Q knew what the exact thoughts, words and actions of the Enterprise crew would be, and exactly how each of his encounters with them would go. Don't forget to include his knowlege of every situation and being in the universe(s). Such knowledge would make life pretty boring, at least from my limited point of view.

Now nigh-omnipotence, which is what I consider the Q to have, would make life very exciting.

Avatar image for venomsapprentice
#21 Posted by venomsapprentice (649 posts) - - Show Bio
@ShootingNova said:

@Dextersinister said:

@ShootingNova: Q can't be omnipotent by the very fact that there are other members of his species that can challenge him.


Sure he can. If the only people who can challenge him are also omnipotent, then it would be a stalemate. It doesn't take away from the fact that Q is omnipotent.
Avatar image for ssejllenrad
#22 Posted by ssejllenrad (13111 posts) - - Show Bio

@venomsapprentice said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Dextersinister said:

@ShootingNova: Q can't be omnipotent by the very fact that there are other members of his species that can challenge him.

Sure he can. If the only people who can challenge him are also omnipotent, then it would be a stalemate. It doesn't take away from the fact that Q is omnipotent.

That is against logic. There can be no two true omnipotent beings in a single reality. If one is all-encompassing, it is impossible that someone else is also all encompassing that is beyond that of the first one. At best you could say that one is truly omnipotent and the other nigh omnipotent. Or, since in the case of Q, he could be challenged, they are simply both nigh omnipotent.

Avatar image for willpayton
#23 Posted by willpayton (19784 posts) - - Show Bio

@venomsapprentice said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Dextersinister said:

@ShootingNova: Q can't be omnipotent by the very fact that there are other members of his species that can challenge him.

Sure he can. If the only people who can challenge him are also omnipotent, then it would be a stalemate. It doesn't take away from the fact that Q is omnipotent.

Q is only "omnipotent" (as far as we know) in the universe that includes the normal dimensions in which the Trek characters live... i.e. 4-dimensional space. Since he comes from a higher-dimensional universe, he seems omnipotent because he can do things that seem impossible to normal humans, hence reality warping. But, since others of his kind can do the same things in our universe, he's only omnipotent as far as it doesnt conflict with other Qs.

So, I guess an analogy would be how we might seem omnipotent to an ant in an ant-farm. We're really not omnipotent, we just seem that way. And, even then, we're still limited to what doesnt conflict to other humans trying to affect the ants.

Avatar image for sirmethos
#24 Posted by SirMethos (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

Q has absolutely no feats, that put him anywhere near Infinity's level.

Infinity stomps.

Avatar image for longtime
#25 Posted by LONGTIME (924 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for johnnyz256
#26 Edited by JohnnyZ256 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

@SirMethos said:

Q has absolutely no feats, that put him anywhere near Infinity's level.

Infinity stomps.

Just because Q may not have shown the feats to put him at Infinity's level doesn't mean he's incapable of such feats.

Avatar image for shootingnova
#27 Edited by ShootingNova (25578 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingkronos said:

@ShootingNova: LOL, Q is a star-galaxy buster, not omnipotent. Infinity stomps.

Again, I said what I heard was definitely fan-wank now.

@JohnnyZ256 said:

@Fetts:

It's possible that Q intentionally reduces his own knowledge in order to make his own existence bearable. Imagine if Q knew what the exact thoughts, words and actions of the Enterprise crew would be, and exactly how each of his encounters with them would go. Don't forget to include his knowlege of every situation and being in the universe(s). Such knowledge would make life pretty boring, at least from my limited point of view.

Why would Q reduce knowledge for the sake of boredom? Sorry, but that's just ridiculous.

Why it seems boring to you is because you are not omniscient. If Q is omniscient, he would have every and unlimited stores of knowledge and wisdom, and thus, "boring" is worthless term to him. So no.

Avatar image for picard1701
#28 Edited by Picard (1130 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fetts said:

@Picard said:

@ssejllenrad said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Dextersinister said:

@ShootingNova: Q can't be omnipotent by the very fact that there are other members of his species that can challenge him.

Then what I heard was fanwank. How powerful is Q?

Well he was stated to be omnipotent. But as was already argued, that's bollocks. I don't even see him on a scale of comicbook nigh omnipotence. He is a high-end reality warper at what best he has shown. But since he hasn't really shown an upper limit, I'm willing to bet around Mxy level.

No, it's not. Show me Q's limitations other than other members of Q continuum. Some of Q's powers: he can create new realities and new life forms on a whim, he can immediately transport himself and others to any place and time in history of the universe, he can stop time on a whim, he can change people and objects into animals, he can shrink people and other objects, he can erase people from existence, he can resurrect the dead, he can phase through objects, he can take any shape or form he pleases, he can change orbits of planets and other celestial bodies, he even said that he can change gravitational constant of the universe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xdbPhnfFEI

What else? He is all knowing and immortal etc. So Q wins, unless you can convince me otherwise?

I used to share the same reasoning. However, Q has stated/implied that humans become even more powerful than the Q. By that very reason, the Q cannot be fully omnipotent. I'd have to say that they're neigh-omnipotent beings. Also Q is not omniscient. He's definitely close to it but not quite. He doesn't everything about people. For example, he once stated to Picard "Had I known you had a weakness to women I would have made my appearance as a female." (TNG: Qpid)

Well, episode when Q said that humans some day will become more powerful than Q happened in early TNG, when writers didn't have full grasp on who Q is, and what he should be allowed to do. And issue of humans becoming more powerful than Q was never brought back again! This tell me that this is either inconsistency or - and what is more probable - Q was just teasing and playing with Riker, trying to trick him into joining the Continuum. Remember that Q is a trickster figure, he is laying and playing with people to achieve his goals. He was also teasing with Picard, this doesn't mean that he is not omniscient. In fact this omniscience lead Quinn to suicide, he know everything there is to know about the universe and because of that everything was to boring and predictable.

@SirMethos said:

Q has absolutely no feats, that put him anywhere near Infinity's level.

Infinity stomps.

I gave you Q's feats, now show me Infinity feats.

Avatar image for shootingnova
#29 Posted by ShootingNova (25578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Picard: If Q was omnipotent, he wouldn't need to be tricking others to join the continuum.

Avatar image for picard1701
#30 Posted by Picard (1130 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Picard: If Q was omnipotent, he wouldn't need to be tricking others to join the continuum.

He don't need to, nut he wants to. Again he is trickster figure, and he is playing with people for for his own amusement. As I said he is doing this for fun.

Avatar image for shootingnova
#31 Posted by ShootingNova (25578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Picard: Why would he want to? If he is omnipotent, he has other ways of fun. If he was omniscient, "fun" would have little meaning to him.

Avatar image for fetts
#32 Edited by Fetts (5647 posts) - - Show Bio
@Picard said:

@Fetts said:

@Picard said:

@ssejllenrad said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Dextersinister said:

@ShootingNova: Q can't be omnipotent by the very fact that there are other members of his species that can challenge him.

Then what I heard was fanwank. How powerful is Q?

Well he was stated to be omnipotent. But as was already argued, that's bollocks. I don't even see him on a scale of comicbook nigh omnipotence. He is a high-end reality warper at what best he has shown. But since he hasn't really shown an upper limit, I'm willing to bet around Mxy level.

No, it's not. Show me Q's limitations other than other members of Q continuum. Some of Q's powers: he can create new realities and new life forms on a whim, he can immediately transport himself and others to any place and time in history of the universe, he can stop time on a whim, he can change people and objects into animals, he can shrink people and other objects, he can erase people from existence, he can resurrect the dead, he can phase through objects, he can take any shape or form he pleases, he can change orbits of planets and other celestial bodies, he even said that he can change gravitational constant of the universe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xdbPhnfFEI

What else? He is all knowing and immortal etc. So Q wins, unless you can convince me otherwise?

I used to share the same reasoning. However, Q has stated/implied that humans become even more powerful than the Q. By that very reason, the Q cannot be fully omnipotent. I'd have to say that they're neigh-omnipotent beings. Also Q is not omniscient. He's definitely close to it but not quite. He doesn't everything about people. For example, he once stated to Picard "Had I known you had a weakness to women I would have made my appearance as a female." (TNG: Qpid)

Well, episode when Q said that humans some day will become more powerful than Q happened in early TNG, when writers didn't have full grasp on who Q is, and what he should be allowed to do. And issue of humans becoming more powerful than Q was never brought back again! This tell me that this is either inconsistency or - and what is more probable - Q was just teasing and playing with Riker, trying to trick him into joining the Continuum. Remember that Q is a trickster figure, he is laying and playing with people to achieve his goals. He was also teasing with Picard, this doesn't mean that he is not omniscient. In fact this omniscience lead Quinn to suicide, he know everything there is to know about the universe and because of that everything was to boring and predictable.

Ah but that is not the only time it was stated/implied. 
  
  Skip to 0:43. This one convinces me that he was telling the truth due to his reaction.
 
Eh, I'm still not convinced he's omniscient. I mean if he were omniscient I don't think he would of underestimated humans multiple times. 
 
Furthermore, I believe Q has been shocked more than once. Like when Sisko hit him. Or like when Picard admitted to him that he need Q. Or like when Q2 gave him his powers back. He didn't seem to be expecting any of that. Omniscience would require the knowledge of all past, present, and future happenings. 
 
@LONGTIME said:

So full of win! :D 
Avatar image for kingkronos
#33 Posted by kingkronos (2532 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyZ256 said:

@kingkronos said:

@ShootingNova: LOL, Q is a star-galaxy buster, not omnipotent. Infinity stomps.

Infinity isn't omnipotent, either. And Q has only shown an inability to do something when dealing with his own kind.

Who said anything about infinity being omnipotent? I was just informing Shootingnova that Q is not omnipotent as many make him to be.

Avatar image for picard1701
#34 Posted by Picard (1130 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Picard: Why would he want to? If he is omnipotent, he has other ways of fun. If he was omniscient, "fun" would have little meaning to him.

Because why not? This is consistent with his character.

Avatar image for johnnyz256
#35 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingkronos: Since Infinity is not omnipotent, there is a chance that Q could still defeat him.

Avatar image for johnnyz256
#36 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova:

It's not ridiculous. If you knew exactly what was going to happen during the remainder of your life, then surely it would be less interesting.

Avatar image for shootingnova
#37 Edited by ShootingNova (25578 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyZ256: If you are omniscient, you have unlimited and infinite knowledge and wisdom, rendering terms like "interesting" worthless. Interesting comes from curiosity, which is based on your lack of knowledge on something. But you already know everything, and more. So there is no curiosity; hence there is no "interesting".

@JohnnyZ256 said:

@kingkronos: Since Infinity is not omnipotent, there is a chance that Q could still defeat him.

Infinity is a she, LOL.

@Picard said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Picard: Why would he want to? If he is omnipotent, he has other ways of fun. If he was omniscient, "fun" would have little meaning to him.

Because why not? This is consistent with his character.

And it is inconsistent to omnipotence and omniscience. Therefore, he is neither.

Avatar image for kingkronos
#38 Posted by kingkronos (2532 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyZ256 said:

@kingkronos: Since Infinity is not omnipotent, there is a chance that Q could still defeat him.

In marvel, there are levels of infinity actually. Oblivion was stated to have infinite power, yet still be below LT.