Q: MUI Goku vs Dark Schneider

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Wanderez

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#1  Edited By Wanderez
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Darsh is Dragon Knight Lucifer mode

Win by death

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mevbi

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#2  Edited By mevbi  Online

Dark Schneider solos the entire DB franchise.

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TakenStew22

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Darsh is way too haxy.

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Bossmountain

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This thread has been done 3 times already.....

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BlackWizzard17

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#6 BlackWizzard17  Online

Goku wins. He has the power of god and anime

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mevbi

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#7 mevbi  Online

This thread has been done 3 times already.....

No, it hasn't. Stop lying

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CaoCao

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#8 CaoCao  Online

No way for Goku to put Darsh down. I don´t know how often we debate this. At least 100 times. Let´s say Goku has the speed advantage, Darsh still can use Bloodstone and kill Goku in the moment, when he try to attack Darsh.

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AnimeFreak1

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#9 AnimeFreak1  Online

Darsh stomps

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Bossmountain

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#10  Edited By Bossmountain

@mevbi:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/hit-and-ssb-goku-vs-dark-schneider-1921000/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/majin-dark-schneider-vs-goku-756142/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/beerus-jiren-and-mui-goku-vs-dark-schneider-1992876/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/composite-goku-vs-dark-schneider-1855734/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/composite-dark-schneider-vs-ui-goku-jiren-and-brol-2003746/

It just never gets old.

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Bossmountain

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The battle is BS purely because these characters are protected by an in Universe mechanic that doesn't exist outside.of it. As a result characters outside the verse without conceptual manipulation have no real way of killing them.

Just like how Sailor Moon cannot die unless someone destroys her starseed which is a bs concept that is completely independent of her body and soul and conceptual form.

The same thing is with dark Schneider in God atoms.

It's like if I wrote a story with a concept like "super Consciousness" which allows my characters to instantly regenerate from all physical and soul base attacks as long as this " super Consciousness" exist. And only damage by attacks that can Target this super Consciousness...

At that point very few characters in general will be able to kill them.

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deactivated-5e5937775a5e6

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Darsh wins.

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Yamiyodare

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Goku speedblitz and one-shots.

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mevbi

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#14 mevbi  Online

@bossmountain: Eternal atoms and dispel bound can be bypassed. It's just that Goku can't :p

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Bossmountain

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@mevbi said:

@bossmountain: Eternal atoms and dispel bound can be bypassed. It's just that Goku can't :p

@mevbi: without conceptual manipulation no they can't.

Also that doesn't leave tie into what I said. and this thread has been done about half dozen times already..

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Teozot

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Darsh wins

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ChaosReigns

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Darsh.

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ShadowRazer24

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Wot_m8

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Darsh is far too hax for DB

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WhatamIseeing

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#20  Edited By WhatamIseeing

pointless to put DS against anyone that isn’t hax

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SagaTheLegend

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Darsh stomps

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Madrus17

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Darsh, w/o his hax he would get solostomped

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supermansolos

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Darsh stomps casually this isn’t funny

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Perfawesome

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Goku is superior in all stats except hax.And he can't put DS down.So Darshe.

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CyberBlades22

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Darsh should win via hax, unless Goku's power is too great for Darsh's hax to work (like Hit's time stop), then Goku stomps.

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EcoBlitz

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#26 EcoBlitz  Online

@cyberblades22: that mechanic only works in verses where it has been shown to work in. If you don’t have resistance hax works against you period

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CaoCao

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#27 CaoCao  Online

Let´s say we highball Goku and say, Darsh his hax wouldn´t work against him:
How stomps Goku Darsh, when he still regenerate from 3 different planes of existence. Hakai at best erase your body and soul. Not enough to beat Dark Schneider.

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CyberBlades22

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The battle is BS purely because these characters are protected by an in Universe mechanic that doesn't exist outside.of it. As a result characters outside the verse without conceptual manipulation have no real way of killing them.

Just like how Sailor Moon cannot die unless someone destroys her starseed which is a bs concept that is completely independent of her body and soul and conceptual form.

The same thing is with dark Schneider in God atoms.

It's like if I wrote a story with a concept like "super Consciousness" which allows my characters to instantly regenerate from all physical and soul base attacks as long as this " super Consciousness" exist. And only damage by attacks that can Target this super Consciousness...

At that point very few characters in general will be able to kill them.

I mean who needs to kill tbh

Just seal them dudes

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Xana7

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@caocao:

Where Dark Schneider TRULY Ranks in Dragon Ball + Nero Debunked

Nero deleted his post. Luckily I've quoted & immortalized his words.

So, it's been quite a while since I've posted anything major. I've been tired of debating for the most part, however this piqued my interest, as I've been wanting to talk about Bastard!! & Dark Schneider for a while now, and this has given me a golden opportunity to do so. There's a fair amount of misinformation about Dark Schneider due to it being a more obscure series, and a lack of research.

This is the post I'll be dissecting. The subject of Nero's blog is why Dark Schneider from Bastard!! would solo most of Dragon Ball Super, and I am going to refute his claims, correct his inaccuracies, and at the end explain where Dark Schneider TRULY stands in Dragon Ball. I'll be quoting Nero's blog in italics throughout, so you can see I'm not taking anything out of context.

DISCLAIMER: Don't go out and send Nero death threats or anything of the sort, I've got nothing against him, I just favor facts over fallacies. Credit to Wells, DragonBall*Magnum*Expert & Torrus Silvér for calculations & blogs I've referenced.

100 YEAR TIME-SKIP GOKU (GT) > UI GOKU?

"With DBS officially ended, we now have a good idea of how strong Goku is at his peak in performance and strength in the DB Continuity; the strongest he’s ever been is RIGHT NOW, save for the End of GT one, but that being noncanon makes it irrelevant."

Here he implies that the "End of GT one", 100 Year Time Skip Goku is stronger than Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku.

The GT Perfect Files state that SSJ4 Gogeta "has no equal" , and 100 YTS Goku is included in this guidebook. SSJ4 Gogeta by feats is low end Multi-Universal and SSG / God Essence Goku (Battle of Gods Arc) has higher end feats than him. It is true that 100 YTS Goku has a strange connection to the Dragon Balls and seems almost ghost-like, however that doesn't have any correlation to his actual strength.

This blog by Torrus Silvèr goes into greater detail on SSG Goku > SSJ4 Gogeta, and here on why SSJ4 Gogeta > 100 Year Time-Skip Goku than I am, as I'd rather not dwell on what's already been refuted and get into the Dark Schneider Debunk.

Base Goku (Episode 14) > SSJ Goku (Episode 13) > SSG Goku (Episode 13) > SSJ4 Gogeta > 100 YTS Goku

BASE DARK SCHNEIDER DOWNPLAY?

"Well, as he is in his base state, Darsh is actually incredibly fodder without his magic. His physical prowess is alright, being hypersonic and city to continental level with his striking attacks. It’s when you allow him to use his magic he spikes in power."

Did you think this was only going to be me debunking Nero's claims of Dark Schneider > Dragon Ball? Think again. Here Nero states that Base Darsh is only continent level in terms of striking power & hypersonic in speed at best.

Nero is referring to Darsh towards the beginning of Bastard, and not Base Darsh at his maximum. I assume Nero is saying that Post Time-Skip Darsh is this weak due to him referencing Darsh's Post Time-Skip feats & using an image of Post Time-Skip base Darsh.

Post Time-Skip Base Darsh RIPS KONRON IN HALF, the very same being whose maximum power scared the Seraphs (source) who were stated by the author to be capable of pulverizing planets & moving faster than light here

On top of this, Darsh was capable of moving faster than the Seraphs can perceive. The same Seraphs who can travel faster than the speed of light, up to 7,000x FTL in travel speed, as they crossed the Black Abyss (a supermassive black hole) in roughly 4 years.

If we scale base Darsh to base Uriel, he could be Star level due to Uriel's Divine Spear Gungir being capable of blowing apart a star.

This is the equivalent of saying DBZ base Goku is only Small Planet level due to his feats and scaling in the Saiyan Arc, and ignoring his gains in power over the course of the series.

Nero, don't downplay base Darsh. He's a beast as well.

DARK SCHNEIDER'S SPELLS DEBUNK

"What’s the scariest is that some of these spells already in his base form can kill some of the high tiers of GT and even Super. Don’t believe me? "

Nope, and I'll explain why.

"Black Sabbath allows Darsh to create a “matter-less space within a magical barrier and traps his opponent within.” Already, anyone who can’t deal with magic is kind of screwed. Then he teleports matter into the space, makes it undergo nuclear fusion to basically point-blank nuke them with a 1 million degrees (Celsius btw) explosion, and then they get sent to a different dimension."

DB characters have numerous feats of resisting magic, such as Vegeta & Nappa being too powerful for Shenron to kill, Androids 17 & 18 being too powerful to alter into humans, Piccolo shrugging off Babidi's magic, Vegeta overpowering Babidi's mind control, Vegito resisting Buuhan's Candy Beam, Copy Vegeta overpowering the Commeson's mind control, etc.

"Specific heat of air: 1.005 kJ/kg K = 1,005 Joules

Assuming that AoE of the Heated air is 1 meter (radius) and 2 meters (height): 6.283,19 m3*1.225 kg/m3=7.696,907,75 kg

Average temperature: 289.15 K

1 million Celsius: 1,000,273.15 K

1,000,273.15 -289.15 =999,984 Kelvins

7.696,907,75*1,005*999,984=7,735,268,522.47 J

1.848,773,547 Tons of TNT

Building Level" ~ Wells

Moving onward, 1,000,000 degrees is nothing to DB characters. Goku even early on in Z is capable of harming and burning beings with planetary level durability and above. As you can see in the above calculation (credit to Wells) Black Sabbath's heat and area of effect only makes it building level, or roughly on par with 2 tons of TNT.

But Nero, I thought even Base Darsh's spells could "kill some of the high tiers of GT and even Super"? Are you insinuating that characters such as SSJ4 Gogeta, Hit, Toppo, etc have only BUILDING LEVEL durability? Is Super Saiyan God Goku comparable to characters like BATMAN in terms of durability? I don't think so.

Teleporting your opponent away also doesn't necessarily count as a victory, as you lacked the ability to actually defeat your opponent. Goku could likely instant transmission out of whatever dimension Darsh sends him to as he's capable of teleporting across dimensions such as The Mortal Realm, Afterlife, and Kaioshin Realm. That is, if it even worked on Goku, as it has no feats of working against beings on a Multi-Universal to Low Multiversal scale.

"Damned Nation allows Darsh to fire a rift of broken space-time at the opponent, proving his ability to warp reality."

Beings such as Gotenks & Buu were capable of shouting holes in the fabric of space-time with techniques such as the Kiai Yell. Buuhan was capable of a much greater feat with his Vice Shout, in which he was going to crush the Mortal Realm by pulling alternate dimensions into it.

We even see Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black tear a hole into (possibly) another space-time and then control the energies which flowed through the rip in reality to obstruct Goku's Ki Sensing and create an army of intangible clones.

"Dispel Bound creates an unknown number of “shields” which have multiple layers and constantly regenerate at FTL speeds, and completely nullify any attack coming at Darsh. If they manage to be broken, they can just simply regenerate nigh instantly. However, they are useless if Darsh fights someone stronger than him."

Dispel Bound has been shattered by Galaxy Level attacks as you can see in the scan above, and by beings stronger than he is, as you've already agreed & conceded to, and by feats Goku is Multi-Universe level in Attack Potency/Destructive Capability, and by using linear scaling (which is heavily downplaying, otherwise average human level beings such as the Farmer with a Power Level of 5 would be capable of taking out large chunks of the moon, which requires a PL of 139) he is Low Multiversal, far beyond anything Darsh has ever tanked.

"Judas Priest is one of Darsh’s strongest attacks, and it’s easy to see how. In his base, JP attacks on an atomic level to disintegrate the target. However, this effect changes once Darsh transforms. Once transformed, JP becomes arguably his strongest spell, and his best weapon to kill any DB foe; JP gains the ability to attack the target “on every level of existence simultaneously, destroying the eternal atoms of their body, soul and spirit”. This means it’s an attack similar to the Hakai, but even more powerful, not stopping at their soul but their very spirit."

All right, there's a LOT wrong with this statement, so I'll break it down piece by piece.

• Implying that atomization would work against high tiers in DB is laughable. Ki Blasts are capable of atomizing targets if the user chooses to, as stated and confirmed in multiple guidebooks, and DB characters are able to tank these Blasts which are capable of atomization. The above scan states that SSJ Future Trunks atomized Frieza, and this guide states that SSJ2 Gohan atomized Super Perfect Cell. (Credit to DragonBall*Magnum*Expert)

• Stating that Judas Priest is essentially a better Hakai is also incorrect. Nero states that Judas Priest is superior to the Hakai due to it being capable of destroying the spirit of the target along with the body and soul. In Dragon Ball Super Episode 69, we see Beerus CASUALLY erase the ghost of Doctor Mashirito with two fingers, not even looking up from his food. Whis even states "Ghost or not, there's nothing Lord Beerus can't destroy." We've also seen that when most beings are killed, their spirit goes to the Afterlife, seemingly as a spirit, and when a being is erased with the Hakai, their existence is erased entirely and they don't go to the afterlife, as stated by Sidra when handing off some of his Energy of Destruction to his assassin.

• We've also seen True Golden Frieza & an off-guard Base Goku tank and resist (respectively) Hakai Energy from Sidra, a God of Destruction. Frieza even made a joke of it, initially only pretending to be harmed by the Hakai Energy. Regardless of Sidra's power, it was stated to have the same function as the Hakai.

Later on in the Tournament of Power we see True Golden Frieza tank yet another Hakai, this time a fully fledged Hakai from God of Destruction Toppo, and Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta punches straight through a Hakai from GoD Toppo. Even Ki Attacks such as Frieza's Death Beams were erased by GoD Toppo's Hakai Aura. Given all of the information, we can conclude that the Hakai is capable of erasing Matter, Energy, Soul, and Spirit.

• In terms of attack potency, Judas Priest is only Galaxy to Multi-Galaxy Level

"Testament is a powerful spell, especially useful against DB characters who have little to no resistance to extreme temperatures. It creates an Absolute Zero (0 degrees Kelvin) field and launches it, turning a caught opponent into ash afterwards."

No resistance to extreme temperatures? If you recall near the beginning of the Tournament of Power, SUPPRESSED BASE VEGETA was hit by Hyssop's Ice Lance (1 )which was confirmed by the Supreme Kai of Universe 9 to freeze at Absolute Zero, and the official Toei Bio for Hyssop states that his body was also at Absolute Zero and Vegeta had no problem striking him. Vegeta's forearm was frozen yet he continued to fight and casually shattered the Absolute Zero ice when he transformed into a Super Saiyan.

This claim that Dragon Ball characters have no resistance to extreme temperatures is extremely fallacious, as I've proven. Moving on.

"Lastly, Venom is one of Darsh’s more terrifying spells, able to summon bacteria from Hell itself into the target’s body. The bacteria then devour the target’s organic matter near instantly, appearing as if they burst into fire."

You'll have to provide feats of Venom working on higher tier beings & take into account that Goku is capable of creating a Ki Barrier to counter poison, and as a Saiyan is naturally resistant to poison. I've already proven that Goku can tank atomization and even having his existence completely erased.

DARK SCHNEIDER'S TRANSFORMATIONS

"Firstly, we have Majin Dark Schneider. What’s it’s multiplier? Several million-fold. What can it do? Absorb surrounding matter and reflect/absorb magical attacks targeting him."

This is correct, I see no flaws with this statement.

"DKL Darsh gets a spell named “Loudness All Guns Blazing” where he breaks the limits of the armor and launches EVERY SINGLE ATTACK HE HAS AT ONCE at the opponent. Yes, this includes Judas Pain, Venom, Damned Nation, EVERYTHING. Multiplier? Millions if not billions or trillions more powerful than Majin."

Oof. Nowhere is it stated that DKL is trillions of times stronger than Majin DS. The only number ever explicitly stated is over 130x, and that's for Fallen Uriel's Final Power up. The manga is a bit unclear on this, it's stated that Uriel gets 130x stronger and his power is still rising, and then 130 fold is stated again (unclear if it's just being restated or that it increase by 130 fold again). Darsh matches and surpasses this, so we know DKL is at least a 16,900x Multiplier

16,900 =/= 1,000,000,000,000

"To save time and energy, I’ll only give the form’s name and appearance, as not much is known of this state. At this moment in time, Dark Schneider’s ultimate form is known as “Adam of Darkness”."

Adam of Darkness is Darsh's Final Form & Nero is correct again in saying that there's little information on it.

Again, Nero goes on and makes a lot of broad statements with little to no evidence to substantiate his claims.

"Well it’s clear he’d likely be able to solo the Tournament of Power with just Majin D.S. or DKL, save for maybe MUI Goku and FP Jiren."

• He can't solo the ToP, I agree. You've provided no evidence to suggest he's even Universe level (I will provide evidence for Adam of Darkness Darsh being possibly universal below) Although you concede that MUI Goku & 100% Jiren > DKL Darsh > Majin Darsh in terms of power?

"Darsh would be around equal to these levels of power in his AoD form, so Dispel Bound would nullify any attacks the others attempted."

• You've provided absolutely no evidence that Adam of Darkness DS is on the level of MUI Goku or Jiren, who are Multi-Universal by feats & Low Multiversal by linear scaling which I've proven earlier is downplay.

"Even if they broke, they’d regenerate at such a fast rate even these guys couldn’t react fast enough to damage him."

• You make this claim, which could be the decisive aspect which could make Darsh win, yet you don't provide any speed feats for the Dispel Bound's regeneration? In fact, judging by the calculation of Uriel & Darsh's combat speed feat in which millions of attacks & counters were exchanged per second, this is at least a hypersonic speed feat and trillions of times faster than light. In this instance, they were attempting to destroy one another's Dispel Bounds, and Darsh was successful in doing so. By scaling the

You've already admitted that against a stronger fighter, the Dispel Bound is irrelevant anyway, and by feats, statements, and scaling early on in DBS, Goku > Darsh.

CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS

Below are a collection of conflicting statements Nero has made throughout the blog, mostly pertaining to exactly how strong Darsh is (which, as the focus of his blog, should be given a definitive answer)

"Dark Schneider and why he DESTROYS Dragon Ball"

Oh, so you're stating that DS > Dragon Ball as a whole? Including the Xenoverse and Heroes continuities, with characters such as XV base Goku overpowering an attack capable of destroying infinite timelines?

"he’s actually surprisingly high in the tiers of DB."

Oh? So he's just high tier in Dragon Ball?

"What’s the scariest is that some of these spells already in his base form can kill some of the high tiers of GT and even Super."

Okay, so you've settled on him just being able to kill SOME of the high tiers of GT & Super, so you concede he can't solo DB?

"Well it’s clear he’d likely be able to solo the Tournament of Power with just Majin D.S. or DKL, save for maybe MUI Goku and FP Jiren."

You concede that MUI Goku & FP Jiren > DKL Darsh in terms of power. I agree.

"So, where does that leave Darsh? Could he beat the Angels? The Grand Priest? Zeno’s Attendants? In my mind, yes."

Adam of Darkness Darsh > Zen-Oh's attendants > Grand Priest > All Angels > All Gods of Destruction?

Again, I ask, what evidence do you have to support this claim?

"I feel he could definitely solo the DBverse."

Your argument isn't even consistent with itself. Also, you're ignoring Tori-Bot who is at least NIGH OMNIPOTENT. He's the Author Avatar of Akira Toriyama and would have supreme and either true omnipotence to nigh omnipotence based on that alone and exists in/created (creation is roughly equal to destruction) multiple fictional verses such as Dragon Ball, Dragon Quest, Blue Dragon, Dr. Slump, etc (Source). He has directly shown the ability to manipulate fate and life due to his authority (Source ) as well as plot manipulation (Source ) & the ability to exist beyond & destroy the manga pages which he was existing upon (Source )He would also have every ability his creations have. So unless you believe Darsh is HIGH OUTERVERSAL, no. He isn't solo'ing Dragon Ball in the slightest.

WHERE DOES DARK SCHNEIDER TRULY STAND IN DRAGON BALL?

So how powerful is Dark Schneider really?

Dragon Knight Lucifer Darsh & Uriel were capable of destroying the Black Abyss, a supermassive black hole the size of 50,000,000 stars. This is a Multi-Galaxy level feat for both of them. However they also destroyed the wall between Hell and Earth which was stated to require force comparable to the Big Bang. DKL Darsh was also able to tank this explosion, so he should be at least Multi-Galaxy+ in terms of durability.

Adam of Darkness Dark Schneider is above this, but how powerful is he? As Nero said, there is little to no information on Adam of Darkness Darsh, however we can extrapolate his potential power based on a single character statement and some scaling.

Adam of Darkness Darsh was stated to have power "closest to God" when he recreated Uriel's sister from his memory. Meaning his is at least equal to if not stronger than Satan.

If this applies to his attack potency, then he could be Universe level due to the fact that Satan was able to create a miniature universe and has been implied to be a universe Level threat. If this is correct, AoD Darsh is twice as powerful as DKL Darsh. Again, this is isn't explicitly confirmed.

Taking into account the fact that Darsh's Dispel Bound can be destroyed by beings stronger than him, they won't save him from the higher tier fighters. We've seen other characters who use the Dispel Bound such as Uriel have his Dispel Bound one shotted by Dragon Knight Lucifer's All Guns Blazing attack as well.

(Note: Macroverse in DB refers to the Mortal Realm, Afterlife, Heaven, & Hell all of which are comparable to our universe in size, as well as Frieza's Personal Hell, the Room of Spirit and Time, Grand Kai's Planet, the Anomalous Space, and the Supreme Kai Realm.)

Goku & Beerus have a Fist Clash which was stated to be capable of destroying the Macroverse by Whis, Elder Kai, and Kibito Kai multiple times, and later on a Ki Clash which also nearly destroyed the Macroverse. The Macroverse would've been destroyed if Beerus didn't nullify the Ki Clash's explosion.

Goku was confirmed by the Narrator to be capable of destroying the Macroverse (Mortal Realm, Afterlife, Heaven, and Hell are all comparable in size to our universe) with every attack, which is low end Multi-Universal.

SSJ Goku raises his power even further and Beerus states that his energy at this level would be more difficult to negate, meaning SSJ Goku > Macroverse Annihilating Ki Clash.

SSJ Goku THEN begins charging a Full-Power Kamehameha (which Beerus matches with a Blast of his own. The two blasts meld together into a High Density Energy Mass which Beerus makes even larger/stronger. SSJ Goku's KHH > SSJ Goku > Macroversal Annihilation.

Super Saiyan Goku cannot stop the High Density Energy Mass and completely exhausts himself down to his base form. BASE Goku then holds back the High Density Energy Mass and cancels it out with a single strike.

SSG Goku could create, react to and cancel out the shockwaves and light from his battle with Beerus, which crossed the Macroverse in seconds , which is septillion's of times FTL. He also surpassed suppressed Beerus when negating the Macroversal Ki Clash, which was going to wipe out the Macroverse. Beerus reacted to the explosion before it could expand, transcend dimensional boundaries, and destroy the Macroverse.

This is Goku in the FIRST ARC of Super.

Goku surpasses this level of power and speed in his base form by the Resurrection F Arc bare minimum due to Krillin & Gohan stating that Goku & Frieza's Battle is superior to SSJ Goku (vs Beerus), coupled with the fact that Base Goku was able to cancel out the High Density Energy Mass when SSJ Goku could not.

Suppressed Jiren (Episode 109) is stated by Shin to have the greatest Ki he's ever felt, which would include Astral Zamasu who consumed Trunks' Timeline/Multiverse and was affecting parallel realities.(Note that Goku implied he could defeat Astral Zamasu if he had a Senzu Bean).

A much weaker Goku's Ki can cross and shake the infinite World of Void in mere seconds. Goku's power is so monumental that his energy can reach across infinity and shake it in mere seconds. Jiren performed this exact feat with his presence alone.

UI Omen Goku (Episode 110) forces Jiren to exert more power than he did against SSB KKx20 Goku's Spirit Bomb, and then later on in the ToP, Jiren releases more and more power, and Goku grows strong enough to match a less suppressed Jiren in his mere SSB form.

UI Omen Goku (Episode 110) is so fast that he can dodge Toppo's Justice Flash with such sheer speed that it appears he is merely walking. The very same Toppo who was capable of tagging SSB Goku in the Zen-Exhibition Match.

Suppressed Jiren (Episode 111) was confirmed to have power which transcends time. Again, SSB Goku later on in the ToP is capable of matching a less suppressed Jiren, and MUI Goku > FP Jiren.

An official episode summary/guide for Episode 129 has a statement from Beerus' perspective in which he states that UI Omen Goku MAY have surpassed him. Mastered UI Goku is far stronger than Omen Goku as he was able to defeat Full Power Jiren. (Translation)

Keep in mind that it's stated many times that Beerus can destroy universes and that if he was to battle Champa, they would destroy both the Sixth and Seventh Universes.

Nero even concedes that the Dispel Bound would be useless when facing someone stronger than him, and that MUI Goku & Jiren > DKL Darsh > Majin Darsh, but then states that AoD would allow him to defeat Goku & Jiren without really giving any reason as to why.

Darsh has never shown any ability to tank Multi-Universe level attacks physically or with his Dispel Bound. Nor has he ever had any feats on a Multi-Universe level scale, as Goku has even early in Super.

As for Adam of Darkness Darsh's speed, we can calculate it a few ways. I will do a low ball and a high ball.

Because Post Time Skip Base Darsh is FTE to the Seraphs, we know he is at least 7,000x FTL if we scale combat speed to travel speed. Now, activating Judas Pain increases his power "millions of times" with no specific number. For the lowball I will assume it increases his power and speed at least 2,000,000x base and the high ball I'll assume is 10,000,000x base (if it was ten million times his base it would likely specify "tens of millions" instead of just "millions")

Lowballed Speed Calculation

Base Darsh: 7,000x FTL

Lowballed Majin Multiplier: 2,000,000x base

Majin Darsh: 14,000,000,000x FTL

Dragon Knight Lucifer Multiplier: 16,900x

Dragon Knight Lucifer Darsh: 236,600,000,000,000x FTL

Adam of Darkness Multiplier: at least 2x DKL if he was previously at 1/2 Big Bang level and then becomes Universe level in his AoD form.

Adam of Darkness Darsh: 473,200,000,000,000x FTL

Highballed Speed Calculation

Base Darsh: 7,000x FTL

Highballed Majin Multiplier: 10,000,000x base

Majin Darsh: 70,000,000,000x FTL

Dragon Knight Lucifer Multiplier: 16,900x

Dragon Knight Lucifer Darsh: 1,183,000,000,000,000x FTL

Adam of Darkness Multiplier: at least 2x DKL if he was previously at 1/2 Big Bang Level and then goes to Universe level in his AoD form.

Adam of Darkness Darsh: 2,366,000,000,000,000x FTL

Even if you take the Gaara's statement in which it's said that DKL Darsh dealt infinite attacks and counters while trying to defeat Uriel (likely hyperbole as the effects of their battle only crossed roughly 53,000 light years in a short amount of time & the character who stated this has no feats of reacting to infinite speed) and scale him to that, suppressed Jiren's (Episode 109) presence crossed & shook the infinite World of Void in seconds, UI Omen Goku's (Episode 110) Ki crossed & shook the Infinite World of Void in seconds, and Toppo warped the entirety of the infinite World of Void in seconds, and MUI Goku & FP Jiren are far beyond that level of power.

Even with some of the spells which Nero didn't go in depth on such as Bloodstone (while in Dragon Knight Lucifer form) which allows Darsh to reflect attacks he's hit with at his target with equal force, wouldn't allow him to defeat Goku, as Goku's attack potency/destructive capability is equal to his durability as we've seen him tank his own Blasts during training many times and while on-guard he can only be harmed by beings on his level of power or above.

For another example, another one of Darsh's more OP abilities is Crow Bar, a spell in which Darsh banishes his opponent to a 13 layered magical prison that causes the soul of his opponent to be destroyed if they attempt to escape. Due to Goku's feats of resisting the Hakai while off-guard, True Golden Frieza tanking Hakai's from Sidra & Toppo, and Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta punching straight through a Hakai, even this won't work.

As for his Eternal Atoms, in which his body, soul, and spirit must all be destroyed in order for him to be killed, does that allow him to solo DB? Again, no. There are characters which could still defeat Darsh but be unable to kill him, however characters such as Beerus, Champa, GoD Toppo, Zen-Oh, and even Goku in the manga are capable of erasing the Body, Spirit, and Soul and would allow them to finish off Darsh for good.

With all of this information, this is DS' true power

DARK SCHNEIDER'S DESTRUCTIVE

Base Darsh (Post Time-Skip): Planet to Star Level

Majin Darsh: Galaxy Level

Dragon Knight Lucifer Darsh: High Multi-Galaxy Level

Adam of Darkness Darsh: Universe Level

So, would Dark Schneider solo Z? Most likely, excluding End of Z characters & Tori-Bot.

Would he solo GT? I don't think so, not with the Universal-Multi-Universal characters, excluding Tori-Bot)

Would he solo Super? Not a chance. DBS characters have Darsh beat in every category and can resist or overcome his greatest hacks abilities.

CONCLUSION

"People think that MUI Goku and FP Jiren are these omnipotent Jesus people who can solo fiction and just stomp anyone they fight, but that isn’t the case. Marvel and DC both have high tiers, not even top tiers, that would shit stomp DB as a whole, possibly even Bastard!! (I won’t get into it). We as a community need to learn to be humble and concede that yes, there are Supermans that beat Goku. There are many characters in fiction that beat Goku."

Nero's final message is this. We should be humble and admit that Goku can't solo fiction, which is highly ironic as Nero implied Darsh is above an omnipotent to nigh omnipotent entity, Tori-Bot, by saying he feels Darsh could "definitely solo the DBverse".

You've even implied that the high tiers of Marvel and DC Comics such as the Living Tribunal and the Spectre can only "possibly" solo Bastard!!? That sounds as if you're heavily biased towards Bastard!!. Goku cannot solo fiction, and neither can Darsh.

and no, I don't hate Bastard!! in fact, I've begun reading it recently and it's pretty good. (Also, does anyone recommend Jojo's Bizarre Adventure? Thinking about picking it up.)

I'll say it again, no ill will towards Nero, not at all, he seems like a pretty nice guy. If you'd like to debate me, we can do so in the comments or simply pm me. In fact, he's a pretty good artist. Keep it up.

Thanks for reading.

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#31 TDJakes  Online
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#32  Edited By CaoCao  Online

@xana7 said:

@caocao:

Where Dark Schneider TRULY Ranks in Dragon Ball + Nero Debunked

Nero deleted his post. Luckily I've quoted & immortalized his words.

So, it's been quite a while since I've posted anything major. I've been tired of debating for the most part, however this piqued my interest, as I've been wanting to talk about Bastard!! & Dark Schneider for a while now, and this has given me a golden opportunity to do so. There's a fair amount of misinformation about Dark Schneider due to it being a more obscure series, and a lack of research.

This is the post I'll be dissecting. The subject of Nero's blog is why Dark Schneider from Bastard!! would solo most of Dragon Ball Super, and I am going to refute his claims, correct his inaccuracies, and at the end explain where Dark Schneider TRULY stands in Dragon Ball. I'll be quoting Nero's blog in italics throughout, so you can see I'm not taking anything out of context.

DISCLAIMER: Don't go out and send Nero death threats or anything of the sort, I've got nothing against him, I just favor facts over fallacies. Credit to Wells, DragonBall*Magnum*Expert & Torrus Silvér for calculations & blogs I've referenced.

100 YEAR TIME-SKIP GOKU (GT) > UI GOKU?

"With DBS officially ended, we now have a good idea of how strong Goku is at his peak in performance and strength in the DB Continuity; the strongest he’s ever been is RIGHT NOW, save for the End of GT one, but that being noncanon makes it irrelevant."

Here he implies that the "End of GT one", 100 Year Time Skip Goku is stronger than Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku.

The GT Perfect Files state that SSJ4 Gogeta "has no equal" , and 100 YTS Goku is included in this guidebook. SSJ4 Gogeta by feats is low end Multi-Universal and SSG / God Essence Goku (Battle of Gods Arc) has higher end feats than him. It is true that 100 YTS Goku has a strange connection to the Dragon Balls and seems almost ghost-like, however that doesn't have any correlation to his actual strength.

This blog by Torrus Silvèr goes into greater detail on SSG Goku > SSJ4 Gogeta, and here on why SSJ4 Gogeta > 100 Year Time-Skip Goku than I am, as I'd rather not dwell on what's already been refuted and get into the Dark Schneider Debunk.

Base Goku (Episode 14) > SSJ Goku (Episode 13) > SSG Goku (Episode 13) > SSJ4 Gogeta > 100 YTS Goku

BASE DARK SCHNEIDER DOWNPLAY?

"Well, as he is in his base state, Darsh is actually incredibly fodder without his magic. His physical prowess is alright, being hypersonic and city to continental level with his striking attacks. It’s when you allow him to use his magic he spikes in power."

Did you think this was only going to be me debunking Nero's claims of Dark Schneider > Dragon Ball? Think again. Here Nero states that Base Darsh is only continent level in terms of striking power & hypersonic in speed at best.

Nero is referring to Darsh towards the beginning of Bastard, and not Base Darsh at his maximum. I assume Nero is saying that Post Time-Skip Darsh is this weak due to him referencing Darsh's Post Time-Skip feats & using an image of Post Time-Skip base Darsh.

Post Time-Skip Base Darsh RIPS KONRON IN HALF, the very same being whose maximum power scared the Seraphs (source) who were stated by the author to be capable of pulverizing planets & moving faster than light here

On top of this, Darsh was capable of moving faster than the Seraphs can perceive. The same Seraphs who can travel faster than the speed of light, up to 7,000x FTL in travel speed, as they crossed the Black Abyss (a supermassive black hole) in roughly 4 years.

If we scale base Darsh to base Uriel, he could be Star level due to Uriel's Divine Spear Gungir being capable of blowing apart a star.

This is the equivalent of saying DBZ base Goku is only Small Planet level due to his feats and scaling in the Saiyan Arc, and ignoring his gains in power over the course of the series.

Nero, don't downplay base Darsh. He's a beast as well.

DARK SCHNEIDER'S SPELLS DEBUNK

"What’s the scariest is that some of these spells already in his base form can kill some of the high tiers of GT and even Super. Don’t believe me? "

Nope, and I'll explain why.

"Black Sabbath allows Darsh to create a “matter-less space within a magical barrier and traps his opponent within.” Already, anyone who can’t deal with magic is kind of screwed. Then he teleports matter into the space, makes it undergo nuclear fusion to basically point-blank nuke them with a 1 million degrees (Celsius btw) explosion, and then they get sent to a different dimension."

DB characters have numerous feats of resisting magic, such as Vegeta & Nappa being too powerful for Shenron to kill, Androids 17 & 18 being too powerful to alter into humans, Piccolo shrugging off Babidi's magic, Vegeta overpowering Babidi's mind control, Vegito resisting Buuhan's Candy Beam, Copy Vegeta overpowering the Commeson's mind control, etc.

"Specific heat of air: 1.005 kJ/kg K = 1,005 Joules

Assuming that AoE of the Heated air is 1 meter (radius) and 2 meters (height): 6.283,19 m3*1.225 kg/m3=7.696,907,75 kg

Average temperature: 289.15 K

1 million Celsius: 1,000,273.15 K

1,000,273.15 -289.15 =999,984 Kelvins

7.696,907,75*1,005*999,984=7,735,268,522.47 J

1.848,773,547 Tons of TNT

Building Level" ~ Wells

Moving onward, 1,000,000 degrees is nothing to DB characters. Goku even early on in Z is capable of harming and burning beings with planetary level durability and above. As you can see in the above calculation (credit to Wells) Black Sabbath's heat and area of effect only makes it building level, or roughly on par with 2 tons of TNT.

But Nero, I thought even Base Darsh's spells could "kill some of the high tiers of GT and even Super"? Are you insinuating that characters such as SSJ4 Gogeta, Hit, Toppo, etc have only BUILDING LEVEL durability? Is Super Saiyan God Goku comparable to characters like BATMAN in terms of durability? I don't think so.

Teleporting your opponent away also doesn't necessarily count as a victory, as you lacked the ability to actually defeat your opponent. Goku could likely instant transmission out of whatever dimension Darsh sends him to as he's capable of teleporting across dimensions such as The Mortal Realm, Afterlife, and Kaioshin Realm. That is, if it even worked on Goku, as it has no feats of working against beings on a Multi-Universal to Low Multiversal scale.

"Damned Nation allows Darsh to fire a rift of broken space-time at the opponent, proving his ability to warp reality."

Beings such as Gotenks & Buu were capable of shouting holes in the fabric of space-time with techniques such as the Kiai Yell. Buuhan was capable of a much greater feat with his Vice Shout, in which he was going to crush the Mortal Realm by pulling alternate dimensions into it.

We even see Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black tear a hole into (possibly) another space-time and then control the energies which flowed through the rip in reality to obstruct Goku's Ki Sensing and create an army of intangible clones.

"Dispel Bound creates an unknown number of “shields” which have multiple layers and constantly regenerate at FTL speeds, and completely nullify any attack coming at Darsh. If they manage to be broken, they can just simply regenerate nigh instantly. However, they are useless if Darsh fights someone stronger than him."

Dispel Bound has been shattered by Galaxy Level attacks as you can see in the scan above, and by beings stronger than he is, as you've already agreed & conceded to, and by feats Goku is Multi-Universe level in Attack Potency/Destructive Capability, and by using linear scaling (which is heavily downplaying, otherwise average human level beings such as the Farmer with a Power Level of 5 would be capable of taking out large chunks of the moon, which requires a PL of 139) he is Low Multiversal, far beyond anything Darsh has ever tanked.

"Judas Priest is one of Darsh’s strongest attacks, and it’s easy to see how. In his base, JP attacks on an atomic level to disintegrate the target. However, this effect changes once Darsh transforms. Once transformed, JP becomes arguably his strongest spell, and his best weapon to kill any DB foe; JP gains the ability to attack the target “on every level of existence simultaneously, destroying the eternal atoms of their body, soul and spirit”. This means it’s an attack similar to the Hakai, but even more powerful, not stopping at their soul but their very spirit."

All right, there's a LOT wrong with this statement, so I'll break it down piece by piece.

• Implying that atomization would work against high tiers in DB is laughable. Ki Blasts are capable of atomizing targets if the user chooses to, as stated and confirmed in multiple guidebooks, and DB characters are able to tank these Blasts which are capable of atomization. The above scan states that SSJ Future Trunks atomized Frieza, and this guide states that SSJ2 Gohan atomized Super Perfect Cell. (Credit to DragonBall*Magnum*Expert)

• Stating that Judas Priest is essentially a better Hakai is also incorrect. Nero states that Judas Priest is superior to the Hakai due to it being capable of destroying the spirit of the target along with the body and soul. In Dragon Ball Super Episode 69, we see Beerus CASUALLY erase the ghost of Doctor Mashirito with two fingers, not even looking up from his food. Whis even states "Ghost or not, there's nothing Lord Beerus can't destroy." We've also seen that when most beings are killed, their spirit goes to the Afterlife, seemingly as a spirit, and when a being is erased with the Hakai, their existence is erased entirely and they don't go to the afterlife, as stated by Sidra when handing off some of his Energy of Destruction to his assassin.

• We've also seen True Golden Frieza & an off-guard Base Goku tank and resist (respectively) Hakai Energy from Sidra, a God of Destruction. Frieza even made a joke of it, initially only pretending to be harmed by the Hakai Energy. Regardless of Sidra's power, it was stated to have the same function as the Hakai.

Later on in the Tournament of Power we see True Golden Frieza tank yet another Hakai, this time a fully fledged Hakai from God of Destruction Toppo, and Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta punches straight through a Hakai from GoD Toppo. Even Ki Attacks such as Frieza's Death Beams were erased by GoD Toppo's Hakai Aura. Given all of the information, we can conclude that the Hakai is capable of erasing Matter, Energy, Soul, and Spirit.

• In terms of attack potency, Judas Priest is only Galaxy to Multi-Galaxy Level

"Testament is a powerful spell, especially useful against DB characters who have little to no resistance to extreme temperatures. It creates an Absolute Zero (0 degrees Kelvin) field and launches it, turning a caught opponent into ash afterwards."

No resistance to extreme temperatures? If you recall near the beginning of the Tournament of Power, SUPPRESSED BASE VEGETA was hit by Hyssop's Ice Lance (1 )which was confirmed by the Supreme Kai of Universe 9 to freeze at Absolute Zero, and the official Toei Bio for Hyssop states that his body was also at Absolute Zero and Vegeta had no problem striking him. Vegeta's forearm was frozen yet he continued to fight and casually shattered the Absolute Zero ice when he transformed into a Super Saiyan.

This claim that Dragon Ball characters have no resistance to extreme temperatures is extremely fallacious, as I've proven. Moving on.

"Lastly, Venom is one of Darsh’s more terrifying spells, able to summon bacteria from Hell itself into the target’s body. The bacteria then devour the target’s organic matter near instantly, appearing as if they burst into fire."

You'll have to provide feats of Venom working on higher tier beings & take into account that Goku is capable of creating a Ki Barrier to counter poison, and as a Saiyan is naturally resistant to poison. I've already proven that Goku can tank atomization and even having his existence completely erased.

DARK SCHNEIDER'S TRANSFORMATIONS

"Firstly, we have Majin Dark Schneider. What’s it’s multiplier? Several million-fold. What can it do? Absorb surrounding matter and reflect/absorb magical attacks targeting him."

This is correct, I see no flaws with this statement.

"DKL Darsh gets a spell named “Loudness All Guns Blazing” where he breaks the limits of the armor and launches EVERY SINGLE ATTACK HE HAS AT ONCE at the opponent. Yes, this includes Judas Pain, Venom, Damned Nation, EVERYTHING. Multiplier? Millions if not billions or trillions more powerful than Majin."

Oof. Nowhere is it stated that DKL is trillions of times stronger than Majin DS. The only number ever explicitly stated is over 130x, and that's for Fallen Uriel's Final Power up. The manga is a bit unclear on this, it's stated that Uriel gets 130x stronger and his power is still rising, and then 130 fold is stated again (unclear if it's just being restated or that it increase by 130 fold again). Darsh matches and surpasses this, so we know DKL is at least a 16,900x Multiplier

16,900 =/= 1,000,000,000,000

"To save time and energy, I’ll only give the form’s name and appearance, as not much is known of this state. At this moment in time, Dark Schneider’s ultimate form is known as “Adam of Darkness”."

Adam of Darkness is Darsh's Final Form & Nero is correct again in saying that there's little information on it.

Again, Nero goes on and makes a lot of broad statements with little to no evidence to substantiate his claims.

"Well it’s clear he’d likely be able to solo the Tournament of Power with just Majin D.S. or DKL, save for maybe MUI Goku and FP Jiren."

• He can't solo the ToP, I agree. You've provided no evidence to suggest he's even Universe level (I will provide evidence for Adam of Darkness Darsh being possibly universal below) Although you concede that MUI Goku & 100% Jiren > DKL Darsh > Majin Darsh in terms of power?

"Darsh would be around equal to these levels of power in his AoD form, so Dispel Bound would nullify any attacks the others attempted."

• You've provided absolutely no evidence that Adam of Darkness DS is on the level of MUI Goku or Jiren, who are Multi-Universal by feats & Low Multiversal by linear scaling which I've proven earlier is downplay.

"Even if they broke, they’d regenerate at such a fast rate even these guys couldn’t react fast enough to damage him."

• You make this claim, which could be the decisive aspect which could make Darsh win, yet you don't provide any speed feats for the Dispel Bound's regeneration? In fact, judging by the calculation of Uriel & Darsh's combat speed feat in which millions of attacks & counters were exchanged per second, this is at least a hypersonic speed feat and trillions of times faster than light. In this instance, they were attempting to destroy one another's Dispel Bounds, and Darsh was successful in doing so. By scaling the

You've already admitted that against a stronger fighter, the Dispel Bound is irrelevant anyway, and by feats, statements, and scaling early on in DBS, Goku > Darsh.

CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS

Below are a collection of conflicting statements Nero has made throughout the blog, mostly pertaining to exactly how strong Darsh is (which, as the focus of his blog, should be given a definitive answer)

"Dark Schneider and why he DESTROYS Dragon Ball"

Oh, so you're stating that DS > Dragon Ball as a whole? Including the Xenoverse and Heroes continuities, with characters such as XV base Goku overpowering an attack capable of destroying infinite timelines?

"he’s actually surprisingly high in the tiers of DB."

Oh? So he's just high tier in Dragon Ball?

"What’s the scariest is that some of these spells already in his base form can kill some of the high tiers of GT and even Super."

Okay, so you've settled on him just being able to kill SOME of the high tiers of GT & Super, so you concede he can't solo DB?

"Well it’s clear he’d likely be able to solo the Tournament of Power with just Majin D.S. or DKL, save for maybe MUI Goku and FP Jiren."

You concede that MUI Goku & FP Jiren > DKL Darsh in terms of power. I agree.

"So, where does that leave Darsh? Could he beat the Angels? The Grand Priest? Zeno’s Attendants? In my mind, yes."

Adam of Darkness Darsh > Zen-Oh's attendants > Grand Priest > All Angels > All Gods of Destruction?

Again, I ask, what evidence do you have to support this claim?

"I feel he could definitely solo the DBverse."

Your argument isn't even consistent with itself. Also, you're ignoring Tori-Bot who is at least NIGH OMNIPOTENT. He's the Author Avatar of Akira Toriyama and would have supreme and either true omnipotence to nigh omnipotence based on that alone and exists in/created (creation is roughly equal to destruction) multiple fictional verses such as Dragon Ball, Dragon Quest, Blue Dragon, Dr. Slump, etc (Source). He has directly shown the ability to manipulate fate and life due to his authority (Source ) as well as plot manipulation (Source ) & the ability to exist beyond & destroy the manga pages which he was existing upon (Source )He would also have every ability his creations have. So unless you believe Darsh is HIGH OUTERVERSAL, no. He isn't solo'ing Dragon Ball in the slightest.

WHERE DOES DARK SCHNEIDER TRULY STAND IN DRAGON BALL?

So how powerful is Dark Schneider really?

Dragon Knight Lucifer Darsh & Uriel were capable of destroying the Black Abyss, a supermassive black hole the size of 50,000,000 stars. This is a Multi-Galaxy level feat for both of them. However they also destroyed the wall between Hell and Earth which was stated to require force comparable to the Big Bang. DKL Darsh was also able to tank this explosion, so he should be at least Multi-Galaxy+ in terms of durability.

Adam of Darkness Dark Schneider is above this, but how powerful is he? As Nero said, there is little to no information on Adam of Darkness Darsh, however we can extrapolate his potential power based on a single character statement and some scaling.

Adam of Darkness Darsh was stated to have power "closest to God" when he recreated Uriel's sister from his memory. Meaning his is at least equal to if not stronger than Satan.

If this applies to his attack potency, then he could be Universe level due to the fact that Satan was able to create a miniature universe and has been implied to be a universe Level threat. If this is correct, AoD Darsh is twice as powerful as DKL Darsh. Again, this is isn't explicitly confirmed.

Taking into account the fact that Darsh's Dispel Bound can be destroyed by beings stronger than him, they won't save him from the higher tier fighters. We've seen other characters who use the Dispel Bound such as Uriel have his Dispel Bound one shotted by Dragon Knight Lucifer's All Guns Blazing attack as well.

(Note: Macroverse in DB refers to the Mortal Realm, Afterlife, Heaven, & Hell all of which are comparable to our universe in size, as well as Frieza's Personal Hell, the Room of Spirit and Time, Grand Kai's Planet, the Anomalous Space, and the Supreme Kai Realm.)

Goku & Beerus have a Fist Clash which was stated to be capable of destroying the Macroverse by Whis, Elder Kai, and Kibito Kai multiple times, and later on a Ki Clash which also nearly destroyed the Macroverse. The Macroverse would've been destroyed if Beerus didn't nullify the Ki Clash's explosion.

Goku was confirmed by the Narrator to be capable of destroying the Macroverse (Mortal Realm, Afterlife, Heaven, and Hell are all comparable in size to our universe) with every attack, which is low end Multi-Universal.

SSJ Goku raises his power even further and Beerus states that his energy at this level would be more difficult to negate, meaning SSJ Goku > Macroverse Annihilating Ki Clash.

SSJ Goku THEN begins charging a Full-Power Kamehameha (which Beerus matches with a Blast of his own. The two blasts meld together into a High Density Energy Mass which Beerus makes even larger/stronger. SSJ Goku's KHH > SSJ Goku > Macroversal Annihilation.

Super Saiyan Goku cannot stop the High Density Energy Mass and completely exhausts himself down to his base form. BASE Goku then holds back the High Density Energy Mass and cancels it out with a single strike.

SSG Goku could create, react to and cancel out the shockwaves and light from his battle with Beerus, which crossed the Macroverse in seconds , which is septillion's of times FTL. He also surpassed suppressed Beerus when negating the Macroversal Ki Clash, which was going to wipe out the Macroverse. Beerus reacted to the explosion before it could expand, transcend dimensional boundaries, and destroy the Macroverse.

This is Goku in the FIRST ARC of Super.

Goku surpasses this level of power and speed in his base form by the Resurrection F Arc bare minimum due to Krillin & Gohan stating that Goku & Frieza's Battle is superior to SSJ Goku (vs Beerus), coupled with the fact that Base Goku was able to cancel out the High Density Energy Mass when SSJ Goku could not.

Suppressed Jiren (Episode 109) is stated by Shin to have the greatest Ki he's ever felt, which would include Astral Zamasu who consumed Trunks' Timeline/Multiverse and was affecting parallel realities.(Note that Goku implied he could defeat Astral Zamasu if he had a Senzu Bean).

A much weaker Goku's Ki can cross and shake the infinite World of Void in mere seconds. Goku's power is so monumental that his energy can reach across infinity and shake it in mere seconds. Jiren performed this exact feat with his presence alone.

UI Omen Goku (Episode 110) forces Jiren to exert more power than he did against SSB KKx20 Goku's Spirit Bomb, and then later on in the ToP, Jiren releases more and more power, and Goku grows strong enough to match a less suppressed Jiren in his mere SSB form.

UI Omen Goku (Episode 110) is so fast that he can dodge Toppo's Justice Flash with such sheer speed that it appears he is merely walking. The very same Toppo who was capable of tagging SSB Goku in the Zen-Exhibition Match.

Suppressed Jiren (Episode 111) was confirmed to have power which transcends time. Again, SSB Goku later on in the ToP is capable of matching a less suppressed Jiren, and MUI Goku > FP Jiren.

An official episode summary/guide for Episode 129 has a statement from Beerus' perspective in which he states that UI Omen Goku MAY have surpassed him. Mastered UI Goku is far stronger than Omen Goku as he was able to defeat Full Power Jiren. (Translation)

Keep in mind that it's stated many times that Beerus can destroy universes and that if he was to battle Champa, they would destroy both the Sixth and Seventh Universes.

Nero even concedes that the Dispel Bound would be useless when facing someone stronger than him, and that MUI Goku & Jiren > DKL Darsh > Majin Darsh, but then states that AoD would allow him to defeat Goku & Jiren without really giving any reason as to why.

Darsh has never shown any ability to tank Multi-Universe level attacks physically or with his Dispel Bound. Nor has he ever had any feats on a Multi-Universe level scale, as Goku has even early in Super.

As for Adam of Darkness Darsh's speed, we can calculate it a few ways. I will do a low ball and a high ball.

Because Post Time Skip Base Darsh is FTE to the Seraphs, we know he is at least 7,000x FTL if we scale combat speed to travel speed. Now, activating Judas Pain increases his power "millions of times" with no specific number. For the lowball I will assume it increases his power and speed at least 2,000,000x base and the high ball I'll assume is 10,000,000x base (if it was ten million times his base it would likely specify "tens of millions" instead of just "millions")

Lowballed Speed Calculation

Base Darsh: 7,000x FTL

Lowballed Majin Multiplier: 2,000,000x base

Majin Darsh: 14,000,000,000x FTL

Dragon Knight Lucifer Multiplier: 16,900x

Dragon Knight Lucifer Darsh: 236,600,000,000,000x FTL

Adam of Darkness Multiplier: at least 2x DKL if he was previously at 1/2 Big Bang level and then becomes Universe level in his AoD form.

Adam of Darkness Darsh: 473,200,000,000,000x FTL

Highballed Speed Calculation

Base Darsh: 7,000x FTL

Highballed Majin Multiplier: 10,000,000x base

Majin Darsh: 70,000,000,000x FTL

Dragon Knight Lucifer Multiplier: 16,900x

Dragon Knight Lucifer Darsh: 1,183,000,000,000,000x FTL

Adam of Darkness Multiplier: at least 2x DKL if he was previously at 1/2 Big Bang Level and then goes to Universe level in his AoD form.

Adam of Darkness Darsh: 2,366,000,000,000,000x FTL

Even if you take the Gaara's statement in which it's said that DKL Darsh dealt infinite attacks and counters while trying to defeat Uriel (likely hyperbole as the effects of their battle only crossed roughly 53,000 light years in a short amount of time & the character who stated this has no feats of reacting to infinite speed) and scale him to that, suppressed Jiren's (Episode 109) presence crossed & shook the infinite World of Void in seconds, UI Omen Goku's (Episode 110) Ki crossed & shook the Infinite World of Void in seconds, and Toppo warped the entirety of the infinite World of Void in seconds, and MUI Goku & FP Jiren are far beyond that level of power.

Even with some of the spells which Nero didn't go in depth on such as Bloodstone (while in Dragon Knight Lucifer form) which allows Darsh to reflect attacks he's hit with at his target with equal force, wouldn't allow him to defeat Goku, as Goku's attack potency/destructive capability is equal to his durability as we've seen him tank his own Blasts during training many times and while on-guard he can only be harmed by beings on his level of power or above.

For another example, another one of Darsh's more OP abilities is Crow Bar, a spell in which Darsh banishes his opponent to a 13 layered magical prison that causes the soul of his opponent to be destroyed if they attempt to escape. Due to Goku's feats of resisting the Hakai while off-guard, True Golden Frieza tanking Hakai's from Sidra & Toppo, and Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta punching straight through a Hakai, even this won't work.

As for his Eternal Atoms, in which his body, soul, and spirit must all be destroyed in order for him to be killed, does that allow him to solo DB? Again, no. There are characters which could still defeat Darsh but be unable to kill him, however characters such as Beerus, Champa, GoD Toppo, Zen-Oh, and even Goku in the manga are capable of erasing the Body, Spirit, and Soul and would allow them to finish off Darsh for good.

With all of this information, this is DS' true power

DARK SCHNEIDER'S DESTRUCTIVE

Base Darsh (Post Time-Skip): Planet to Star Level

Majin Darsh: Galaxy Level

Dragon Knight Lucifer Darsh: High Multi-Galaxy Level

Adam of Darkness Darsh: Universe Level

So, would Dark Schneider solo Z? Most likely, excluding End of Z characters & Tori-Bot.

Would he solo GT? I don't think so, not with the Universal-Multi-Universal characters, excluding Tori-Bot)

Would he solo Super? Not a chance. DBS characters have Darsh beat in every category and can resist or overcome his greatest hacks abilities.

CONCLUSION

"People think that MUI Goku and FP Jiren are these omnipotent Jesus people who can solo fiction and just stomp anyone they fight, but that isn’t the case. Marvel and DC both have high tiers, not even top tiers, that would shit stomp DB as a whole, possibly even Bastard!! (I won’t get into it). We as a community need to learn to be humble and concede that yes, there are Supermans that beat Goku. There are many characters in fiction that beat Goku."

Nero's final message is this. We should be humble and admit that Goku can't solo fiction, which is highly ironic as Nero implied Darsh is above an omnipotent to nigh omnipotent entity, Tori-Bot, by saying he feels Darsh could "definitely solo the DBverse".

You've even implied that the high tiers of Marvel and DC Comics such as the Living Tribunal and the Spectre can only "possibly" solo Bastard!!? That sounds as if you're heavily biased towards Bastard!!. Goku cannot solo fiction, and neither can Darsh.

and no, I don't hate Bastard!! in fact, I've begun reading it recently and it's pretty good. (Also, does anyone recommend Jojo's Bizarre Adventure? Thinking about picking it up.)

I'll say it again, no ill will towards Nero, not at all, he seems like a pretty nice guy. If you'd like to debate me, we can do so in the comments or simply pm me. In fact, he's a pretty good artist. Keep it up.

Thanks for reading.

Why do you tag me with a post that has mostly nothing to do with this fight? Darsh stomps, unless Goku has an answer against Bloodstone and Eternal Atoms.

EDIT: I see @varricpatermann debunked this post, i don´t know why are you still posting this in every Bastard!! vs Dragon Ball Topic.

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MoneyyJunee

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#33 MoneyyJunee  Online

Darsh stomps

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Darsh