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#1 Posted by TourneyMaster (1544 posts) - - Show Bio

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps:

Patriots (Games, Comics)

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Solid Snake, Big Boss, Cyborg Ninja, Vamp

@rikuyamaha:

Mages (Fate Stay Night/Fate Stay Zero Manga, Anime, Games)

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Emiya Shirou (No Reality Marble), Rin Tohsaka, Kirei Kotomine, Kiritsugu Emiya

Rules

  • Gear is limited standard gear, or gear you can reasonably argue as standard. If a ruling needs to be made, I can call it.
  • Telepathy is allowed but limited in several ways. You cannot mind control the other teams characters directly, but NPCs and Summons are allowed. Mental attacks are forbidden. Reading the mind, and affecting someone's perceptions or emotions is fair game. This goes for Soul powers as well.
  • Everyone is in character, and allowed decent team work. Your characters will not attack the other, but if it's in character for them to do something foolish, or go rogue from the group, then that can be argued.
  • Exotic powers are allowed, but no Time Freezing/Slowing.
  • All battles are to the Death or KO. BFR is not a win or allowed.
  • Everyone in this battle will be random fights unless your characters know the other characters naturally.
  • If a character has no specific Canon listed, they get all feats from sources stated. Crossover comics, or shows are allowed. Crossover games are not.

Scenario

The recent Holy Grail War cost the Patriots tons of money and soldiers. The idea of a magical object that can grant someone world domination when they worked so hard to run the world as a war economy just infuriates them. They decide through careful planning, unrealistic, complex, convoluted conspiracy shenanigans get the best team of soldiers they had the pleasure to manipulate over the many decades to take out the Mages of the next HGW. Luckily all these Mages were meeting in secrete to discuss the rules of the upcoming HGW, when their own magical alarms alert them of a encroaching presence moving in on them. They prepare for the worst.

The battlefield is empty of all NPCs.

Top Team is Red. Bottom Team is Blue.

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#2 Posted by GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps (2585 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikuyamaha You want me to go first, or can you? I don't mind either way, or we can just go with whoever finishes their opener first.

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#3 Posted by Chronicplane (9050 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP.

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#4 Posted by DiarrheaRegatta (4627 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for every post.

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#5 Posted by FaradaySloth (9350 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#6 Posted by TourneyMaster (1544 posts) - - Show Bio

Im kinda looking forward for this as well.

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#7 Posted by cdiddyman911 (5531 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#8 Posted by GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps (2585 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckle in lads, I'll try and keep things relatively brief but this might take a while.

Gray Fox, Big Boss, Solid Snake and Vamp: 21st Century Legends.

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Solid "David" Snake: The Icon

"We can tell other people about - having faith. What we had faith in. What we found important enough to fight for. It's not whether you were right or wrong, but how much faith you were willing to have, that decides the future."

Let's begin with the main man himself, Snake, who serves not only as a basis for most of the characters I will rep to scale off of, but as the jack of all trades that can work in basically every situation.

Strength/Speed:

Now fortunately Snake only really requires strength and speed to be effective (he has gear, as well as solid durability and skill showings, but I will only highlight them when necessary for brevities' sake), so we don't have to waste too much time, and focus on his impressive physical capabilities.

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For Snake's best strength feat, in a clash between himself and Liquid Ocelot, they create a shockwave that shakes the giant Metal Gear Rex they were standing on. Damn impressive.

As for speed, this is actually Snake's strongest segment, as he has 2 feats which put him at hypersonic levels.

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  1. Snake here dodges a railgun shot after it has been fired, putting him at least mach 3-5 levels (something I can elaborate more on if needed).
  2. Snake and Ocelot have an entire scuffle before a cigar drops onto the ground, which means they did all of that in what was likely roughly half a second.

Another thing to point out is that both of these feats are from Snake in his old age, leagues away from his physical prime, making these feats all the more impressive.

Vamp: The Monster

"You too... Immortal?"

Now Vamp's an interesting case, as whilst by pure feats he isn't the strongest, most skilled or even arguably the fastest, their's a certain cyborg ninja he scales too, plus his unique powers, that make him incredibly dangerous.

Powers:

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Unlike everyone else on my team, Vamp is a textbook definition mutant, as his nanomachines give him a pretty potent healing factor, being able to laugh off and regenerate stab wounds like they were nothing, from basic knives, getting shot in the face to even Raiden's High-Frequency Blade (see Gray Fox's segment for more info).

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Another ability Vamp is capable of, whilst technically not a superpower, is being able to body read opponents as a sort of mini-precog. Simple, but pretty useful.

Strength/Speed:

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Now this doubles as a skill feat, but for Vamp's speed feat I wanted to highlighted how he was shown to be cyborg Raiden's equal, who's fast enough to go FTE to Snake, making this high-pace knife duel incredibly impressive.

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This scaling also applies to Vamp's general strength (mostly cause he doesn't have many great strength feats of his own), as being able to also match Raiden without being overpowered shows he can tangle with these kinds of strength levels, and Raiden, as shown above can swing around 2 Gecko units whilst breakdancing as a low showing, so he's plenty strong in his own right.

Big Boss: The Grandmaster

"To do the right thing, you sometimes have to leave the things you love behind"

Yeah, I'll be honest, despite being basically the instigator of the entire franchise (at least alongside The Boss and Zero, but that's a whole other can of worms), Big Boss is the weak link of this team with nothing the rest don't supply, but to underestimate him would still be a grim mistake.

Strength/Speed:

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Regarding strength, Big Boss' best feat is defeating Volgin (The fight's in-game so it's a bit hard to show the fight specifically, but he did win H2H), who's strong enough to punch through a Metal Gear's armour, so this is mighty impressive.

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And in terms of speed, BB's been able to dodge attacks from Null (also known as pre-cyborg Gray Fox), who as shown here can effortlessly swat away bullets. Don't really need to show why this is impressive, and this doubles as a speed feat for an inferior Gray Fox.

Frank Jaeger aka Gray Fox: The Cyborg

"After Zanzibar, I was taken from the battle, neither truly alive, nor truly dead, an undying shadow, in a world of lights."

Finally, let us end on Gray Fox, who is in my eyes, the most dangerous member on my team and will be the key playmaker in terms of both stats and, more importantly, weaponry.

Weaponry/Gear:

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Now Frank has several pieces of equipped to his suit, such as Camouflage and sensors which "detect minute movements in the air", as well as an energy cannon capable of damaging a Metal Gear REX, but whilst they can be quite useful, they are not what makes Gray Fox so scary.

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What I really want to focus on is his high frequency blade, dubbed the Fox Blade. Much like fellow solider, Raiden's sword, by resonating/vibrating at intense speeds, this bad boy weakens it's targets particle bonds, as well as making it nigh unbreakable. No i did not stutter, nor is this hyperbole, this beast cuts things down at a molecular level. This goes without saying, but your gonna need god-tier (at least by this tourneys standard) piercing durability in order to even come close to surviving this blades edge.

Speed:

In terms of strength, whilst Frank is certainly solid, aren't what make him special, and aren't really necessary given his weaponry.

But in terms of speeds, he's right up there with the top dogs of this team, and I only need 1 feat to prove so.

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Here we see Frank going FTE to the view of Solid Snake and he even calls him "so fast". This certainly puts him at Vamp's level of speed, and given his ease of doing so, solidly puts Frank at Hypersonic levels.

Initial Thoughts/Gameplan:

Now this is a team I am relatively familiar with, so I know what these characters are capable of, and whilst they are certainly impressive, It's nothing my team can't handle.

The actual gameplan is a simple one, as given the arena and starting distance, this is a battle where Metal Gear's trademark stealth can be put to good use.

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With that said, The fight will begin by Snake and Gray Fox applying their Camouflage, and those 2 going full stealth mode. Vamp and Big Boss will also apply their stealth to good use (Vamp in particular is capable of sneaking up on Snake himself, as shown here, and given that Big Boss has stealth missions as standard affairs, he's pretty skilled in his own right).

My team can use this to their major advantage, as no one on your team from my memory really has a good counter for sneaky opponents, already putting my team at an advantage. We will use this advantage in order to pick off each of your members with blinding speed and efficient offense via strength feats Gray Fox's insane weaponry.

But let's say you do have outs to my team's stealth capabilities, and we engage in a proper brawl, to which I'll respond by quickly going through your team and briefly discussing each indivual memeber.

Kirei:

Now Kirei's an interesting case, as whilst his strength is relatively impressive it's hardly his defining factor.

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Speed is undoubtedly Kirei's forte, with this feat being probably his best, and whilst it's certainly impressive, it's nothing my team can't replicate, Gray Fox in particular has a feat very similar to this, only in his case it was done extremely casually, at a much closer range and it didn't even look like he was moving. This combined with Fox's superior weaponry and general physicals should give him a very solid edge in this exchange.

Rin:

Now Rin's an interesting case, cause whilst I think we can agree that physically she's the weakest of your group, but in return has the highest level of firepower. Fortunately I can use this to my advantage, as the speed advantage my team has means that it seems difficult for Rin to land a truly meaningful attack, and would likely get one-shot by Snake or Gray Fox, so having Snake deal with her doesn't seem to farfetched.

Shirou:

Shirou is probably the strangest case and someone I admittedly am not sure where to place in terms of stats, and by extension threat levels but from what can tell he shouldn't be too much of an issue, but this is someone I'll let you decide about how tough he is.

Kiritsugu:

Finally, in regards to Kiritsugu, he's honestly the least threatening to me. MGS is a franchise that makes bullet timers look like scrubs, and even with time dilation, the fact that Kirei could keep pace and even outmatch this Emiya even whilst using time dilation to say that my team could do the same, and it's not like he has the means to put down Vamp in any capacity, so he shouldn't be an issue.

That should do it, as whilst I'll wait until your post to truly compare our characters, I have a bet that my teams speed, stealth and strength will simply prove too much for your team.

Conclusion:

  1. My team's faster than yours
  2. My team is more skilled (something I may elaborate more on in the next post)
  3. Your team doesn't have great counters to stealth
  4. Kirei and Rin get one-shot, the Emiya's only survive because of Avalon, and that won't stop the beatdown from continuing
  5. The arena favours my team over yours

All in all, I think my team can pull this off relatively comfortably.

You're up.
You're up.
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#9 Posted by GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps (2585 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by RikuYamaha (1480 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by RikuYamaha (1480 posts) - - Show Bio

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps

*side note, I will be quoting various different things that will be accessible to these four magus along with several different magic tactics plus abilities of all of the members of this team and compare and contrast each placing each member against one of your own showing the advantages they have over them*

I will start with kirei kotomine, one of the members you had noted to have grwat feats of speed, however you are gravely mistaken as this isn't his only strong suit.

Kirei kotomine, being an unique and destructive case within the church, he wields an heavy weapon known as the black keys, not only that but is an master with the breathing and walking technique in taking in mana for his combat prowess, he is an master in the medical field of the magic. He has shown this ability by harvesting command seals from other magus during the grail wars he participated in, he also showed this feat in being able to sew on archer's (shirou emiya) arm onto shirou in the heaven's feel route showing that he could skillfully attach magic circuits onto others.

Now, he also holds great prowess in martial combat, having shown great levels of strength with his fight against kiritsugu, as I paraphrase his statement within the fight,

"-that palm strike should have made his heart burst"

*I paraphrased this statement*

This was also shown later on within many other battles he held within the heaven's feel route in his final battle with emiya shirou, even stunting great levels of endurance as well.

As most of the magus within the church are taught to use rites and form their black keys, the black keys are an interesting weapon as it is initially just an small red hilt, however, the blades of the black keys are formed from an certain degree of mana being pushed through the black keys. Kirei kotomine is actually an genius in this field, as he can form these blades without the use of an incantation.

*most of the priests of the church require incantation*

This level of combat prowess is only but the surface of what he is capable of, as he is an master in the martial arts, along with even skillfully wielding his magic craft.

Now his speed is of course his strong suit, however, his strength and endurance is also something also to take account of as he was able to survive an entire building collapsing on him from the grail burning up and destroying most of fuyuki city.

In terms of the aforementioned, stealth portion you spoke of, kirei kotomine had been shown to even contend well against true assassin within heaven's feel route and his master zouken. This along with surviving an fatal blow from Sakura matou that would have stopped his heart, he managed to still fight on equal terms against emiya shirou.

This along with several other routes have shown that kirei kotomine us gravely underestimated and could very well take on your team alone.

Against snake, whom I believe would be the one who would stand well against him in combat would only be able to match him in terms of speed, however, in strength wise he would die, this being that kirei would have access to magic without incantation, and even use the rites to just turn him to stone, or even set him ablaze.

Kirei kotomine is also an master strategist as he had even proven to trap zouken along with his servant (alone), he even showed great skill against Saber (arthoria) and emiya shirou, of course with the help of his own servant.

This would equate to snake being overwhelmed by the tactical difference between the two, however, this team would not fight alone.

Kirei kotomine would be able to take on vamp, rather easily able to keep up with this member, having seen that the church has constantly dealt with dead apostles that were basically monsters with even greater healing factors along with strength.

Against, big boss, he would be taken care of as well rather easily, due to the skill set overwhelme kirei holds against him.

Even with gray fox, being as skilled as he is, against kirei kotomine he would prove to be defeated in his own skills.

Moving onto kiritsugu emiya, another member that was gravely underestimated by your team.

Stealth being kiritsugu's main strong suit along with his genius level of strategic planning, he would have gained the information along with the resources beforehand in the fight. This information along with his partner, (forgot her name), would have been able to set numerous traps beforehand against the many members of the team.

Kiritsugu being an magus himself, he is able to manipulate time flow around himself in an reality marble placed around himself allows him to multiply time and reaction time, making him able to easily able to act within and beyond the times of your following members, even moving at burst speeds that could beat kirei kotomine, however, this comes at the cost of his stamina.

You have to also include his massive arsenal that has a large array of weapons, as it had been shown that he would go as far as blowing up buildings with explosives.

Kiritsugu is someone whom you could say is an efficient, as he had shown his assassination techniques to just go with the easiest way to kill them off.

Now, keep in mind that only but one of your members have healing factors while others such as snake survived bombings and such through plot armor. Without this in mind, almost all of your members would end up dead due to Kiritsugu's tactics of explosives and even the use of his high powered sniper. Needless to say, his martial arts combat showed that he was able to contend greatly on par with kirei kotomine another high leveled martial artist. He is an weapon's expert showing great skill with various guns, and bladed weapons.

Matching up his arsenal and skill set against the others, he would be able to equally fight with snake along with taking out his team without much of a drop of sweat as he isn't dealing with that high of an supernatural force. This would make dealing with these "humans" rather easily. However, we must take account of the special abilities they have as well, but this would be known by Kiritsugu as well, meaning that an effective strategy would be paired together in order to defeat the team with the quickest of timing.

Rin tohsaka, another highly underestimated member of the team that you failed to recognize to be potentially the greatest danger against your team, rin tohsaka is not only able to wield all five elements, but she is an practitioner of jewel magic along with even having high levels of strength that could send Shockwave, plus the durability to within stand great levels of attack.

Rin tohsaka is also an strategist, she holds the ability to contend against kirei kotomine as she was bis direct student for many many years, meaning she can kick ass too, her level of strength and speed could be compared to kirei kotomine along with fluid magic use within combat.

Seeing as rin tohsaka was able contend against servants within the grail war herself along with showing strategies within each route, if we must include every weapon rin tohsaka had, then we must include the jewel sword she wielded an powerful weapon, also known as the azoth sword, it not only amplifies the magical power of the wielder, even being able to kill an servant.

Rin holds an high combat prowess along with being able to use enhancement magic, allowing her to take on even the heaviest of blows. Her speed and strength, plus intelligence makes her even able to take on vamp along with snake.

Shirou emiya, another case that is strange, but highly underestimated, depending on the route of emiya shirou taken, he could kill off the whole team, he is an major weapons support member as his projection magic allows him to recreate even the greatest of weapons from legends, needless to say, he also holds the tohsaka family magic crest in the ubw route, however, in the heaven's feel route he has shown with the attachment of archer's (shirou emiya) arm he was able to gain the immense battle combat knowledge and power that archer, an servant of the counterforce had that could easily triumph over the others within this team along with the others in the enemy, team.

Shirou with his added powers put together makes him able to contend against the others, even able to use noble phantasm abilities to wipe out countries and even cities.

However, one must make certain that fighting shirou would be more than likely fighting an monster, as his durability would make his healing factor high along with access to an unbounded amount of combat experience due to the arm he wields. He holds numerous attacks and skills that could easily overwhelm the other team, potentially fighting them on his own as he had shown to take on Hercules, an servant able to revive nine times that was also an boosted version of himself, (alter berserker from heaven's feel route) which was killed with nine slashes.

This means that vamp, snake, big boss, gray fox would all fall before emiya shirou in head to head combat, however, even stealth would be rendered upon facing him as he woukd be more than capable of predicting the movements and actions of these members.

Now, having this much information of the members being able to contend greatly despite the assumed speed differences, however, that would be untrue as their reaction times would greatly defeat them along with the strategic abilities that would be able to defeat as well, especially if it is the holy grail war, as each would be able to summon servants that would be more than able to wipe them out within an matter of seconds.

With that said, the fate magus team would greatly overpower the humans that would obviously only be able to contend for an moment before they would be overwhelmed by the many various skills of the magus within this team.

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#13 Edited by GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps (2585 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikuyamaha: Cool, that was fast, I'll try and get to back to this as soon as I can.

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#14 Posted by RikuYamaha (1480 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by FaradaySloth (9350 posts) - - Show Bio

This is interesting so far

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#16 Edited by TourneyMaster (1544 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps (2585 posts) - - Show Bio

Counter Post: Magic vs Technology

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Counters:

he is an master in the medical field of the magic. He has shown this ability by harvesting command seals from other magus during the grail wars he participated in, he also showed this feat in being able to sew on archer's (shirou emiya) arm onto shirou in the heaven's feel route showing that he could skillfully attach magic circuits onto others.

Given the high pace of this battle, it seems unlikely that Kirei would really get the chance to use his healing capabilities given how he's never really used it in a mid-combat scenario.

Now, he also holds great prowess in martial combat, having shown great levels of strength with his fight against kiritsugu, as I paraphrase his statement within the fight, "-that palm strike should have made his heart burst"

Certainly impressive in it's own right, but in terms of raw damage output it doesn't come close to my team's strength. Snake's showing in particular is just superior for fairly clear reasons.

As most of the magus within the church are taught to use rites and form their black keys, the black keys are an interesting weapon as it is initially just an small red hilt, however, the blades of the black keys are formed from an certain degree of mana being pushed through the black keys. Kirei kotomine is actually an genius in this field, as he can form these blades without the use of an incantation.

The issue with this is that the Black Keys themselves AFAIK don't really have any feats to warrant them even above your average bullets in term of how strong they are, so placing their threat levels, particularly when Kirei seems to much prefer H2H, is a bit difficult.

Now his speed is of course his strong suit, however, his strength and endurance is also something also to take account of as he was able to survive an entire building collapsing on him from the grail burning up and destroying most of fuyuki city

So I'm going to assume your referring to the finale of Fate/Zero when your referring to this since you haven't provided a scan nor source (if I'm not and acting like a buffoon then this is gonna be quite embarrassing lol), and with that in mind, this feels a bit misinformed.

Fate/Zero Episode 24
Fate/Zero Episode 24

For starters, Kirei was long dead before the Holy Grail was destroyed, as Kiritsugu shot him down the episode before.

Fate/Zero Episode 25
Fate/Zero Episode 25

And when Kirei did come back to life, whilst the details aren't explained to 100% accuracy (although Gilgamesh is a reliable source), as explained here, it's very clear that he wouldn't have been alive had the Grail not stepped in, so all in all, saying Kirei survived this destruction by himself seems quite misleading.

In terms of the aforementioned, stealth portion you spoke of, kirei kotomine had been shown to even contend well against true assassin within heaven's feel route and his master zouken.

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Whilst this is certainly impressive (though I'll admit my Heaven's Feel knowledge is much more limited compared to Zero or UBW, given my anime-only-scrub status, will admit), it's not really a counter for invisible, as when Kirei was fighting True Assassin they were seemingly constantly on the run and aware of each other's presence and abilities, so as a counter to stealth it's not really viable.

This along with surviving an fatal blow from Sakura matou that would have stopped his heart, he managed to still fight on equal terms against emiya shirou.

That feat was very clearly more akin to sheer pain tolerance rather than actual durability, and won't stop Gray Fox beheading Kirei with his super-strong sword.

This along with several other routes have shown that kirei kotomine us gravely underestimated and could very well take on your team alone.

Based on this and my own knowledge there is a negative percent chance of Kirei 1v4ing my team in any universe, not when 3, arguably 4 of them out speed him, 2 of them are invisible, and 1 has a healing factor Kirei doesn't have a real answer for.

Against snake, whom I believe would be the one who would stand well against him in combat would only be able to match him in terms of speed, however, in strength wise he would die,

Based on what? By feats Snake's shockwave is more impressive than any strength showing Kirei's shown and could honestly knock him out cold in a single go. You haven't shown any strength feats for Kirei period, so I'm not convinced in the slightest. And in terms of speed, Snake's speeds thanks to the feats he has makes it so that if anyone is getting outmatched, it's Kirei (to reiterate, the feats I provided were of Old Snake, far away from his best in terms of physicals).

this being that kirei would have access to magic without incantation, and even use the rites to just turn him to stone, or even set him ablaze.

When has Kirei used either of those? I genuinely don't remember unless it was from HF, and if so then it seems like an incredibly OOC move for Kirei to pull.

Kirei kotomine is also an master strategist as he had even proven to trap zouken along with his servant (alone), he even showed great skill against Saber (arthoria) and emiya shirou, of course with the help of his own servant. This would equate to snake being overwhelmed by the tactical difference between the two, however, this team would not fight alone.

Not only has Kirei never really faced someone who could flat out turn invisible, but given the incredibly simplistic nature of my characters means their's not much to pick apart in terms of strategy, not to mention Kirei's lack of knowledge and prep time, and makes this kind of irrelevant in this battle.

Kirei kotomine would be able to take on vamp, rather easily able to keep up with this member, having seen that the church has constantly dealt with dead apostles that were basically monsters with even greater healing factors along with strength.

Yeah, but those Apostles as far as I was aware weren't moving around at hypersonic speeds and tangoing with cyborgs who can throw around walking mini-mechs like nothing.

Against, big boss, he would be taken care of as well rather easily, due to the skill set overwhelm kirei holds against him.

If versatilities what your backing then that by itself doesn't win fights if half of it is barely used, and in terms of the fight itself, whilst I'll fully admit Big Boss probably loses this if they engage, he has enough speed thanks to Null to keep pace, and is strong enough to do some serious damage, so it won't be easy for Kirei.

Even with gray fox, being as skilled as he is, against kirei kotomine he would prove to be defeated in his own skills.

So you're saying that even with the quite frankly enormous stat gap that Frank possesses over Kirei in basically every category and having superior weapons, skill alone would be enough to win, when Kirei has next to no actual skill feats, just numbers of types of magic he uses OOC? Forgive me if I seem doubtful.

Stealth being kiritsugu's main strong suit along with his genius level of strategic planning, he would have gained the information along with the resources beforehand in the fight. This information along with his partner, (forgot her name), would have been able to set numerous traps beforehand against the many members of the team.

All this would require prep time, of which you have none, so not sure how this will be relevant.

Kiritsugu being an magus himself, he is able to manipulate time flow around himself in an reality marble placed around himself allows him to multiply time and reaction time, making him able to easily able to act within and beyond the times of your following members, even moving at burst speeds that could beat kirei kotomine, however, this comes at the cost of his stamina.

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Do keep in mind that it took Triple Accel in order to make Kirei flinch at the speeds and Square Accel to truly outpace him (Kirei only got surprised by the first Double Accel because he didn't know how Kiritsugu's powers worked, once he figured that out he was fine), and as you mentioned yourself, Time Alter, especially at the higher levels, drains Kiritsugu like nothing else, so he's not going to be able to keep pace for very long, considering that he'd have to be going constantly Triple/Square Accel to truly have a speed advantage against my team.

You have to also include his massive arsenal that has a large array of weapons, as it had been shown that he would go as far as blowing up buildings with explosives.

In a zero-prep scenario, the only real things I could see Emiya using is his guns, which a franchise like Metal Gear shouldn't have an issue with given how bullet timing isn't that impressive in this verse (keep in mind the bullets themselves don't speed up when Time Alter's active, only Kiritsugu himself).

Kiritsugu is someone whom you could say is an efficient, as he had shown his assassination techniques to just go with the easiest way to kill them off.

True, but characters in the MGS-verse are just as formidable in the act of assassination.

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As an example, Sniper Wolf, another MGS character and opponent Snake has defeated multiple times, is known as a 'born sharpshooter', so she's plenty skilled in her own right, so to say that this team can't deal with assassins is uninformed, especially given their invisibility.

Now, keep in mind that only but one of your members have healing factors while others such as snake survived bombings and such through plot armor.

Just because Plot Armour exists doesn't negate the feat, not like their's any context or PIS behind the feats I showed, so I don't see your point here.

Without this in mind, almost all of your members would end up dead due to Kiritsugu's tactics of explosives and even the use of his high powered sniper.

Sniping isn't an issue thanks to everyone being a casual bullet timer (keep in mind the bullets don't speed up when Double Accel is active, only Emiya himself), and given that Snake, Big Boss and even human Gray Fox have all survived explosions before, the explosives should hardly be a factor.

Matching up his arsenal and skill set against the others, he would be able to equally fight with snake along with taking out his team without much of a drop of sweat as he isn't dealing with that high of an supernatural force. This would make dealing with these "humans" rather easily.

Well Vamp and Frank aren't exactly human, and just calling Snake and Big Boss merely 'human' given all their feats is quite frankly insulting to their pedigree.

However, we must take account of the special abilities they have as well, but this would be known by Kiritsugu as well, meaning that an effective strategy would be paired together in order to defeat the team with the quickest of timing.

Without prep time nor any kind of basic knowledge, I seriously doubt that he could come up with something like you're imagining in literally seconds before Gray Fox reaches your team and cuts them down to shreds.

Rin tohsaka, another highly underestimated member of the team that you failed to recognize to be potentially the greatest danger against your team, rin tohsaka is not only able to wield all five elements, but she is an practitioner of jewel magic along with even having high levels of strength that could send Shockwave,

I'm fully aware that Rin is capable of more than just creating shockwaves, but until you bring it up I won't cover it, and shockwaves aren't anything my team hasn't replicated, as I've proven with Snake.

plus the durability to within stand great levels of attack.

What durability feats?

Rin tohsaka is also an strategist, she holds the ability to contend against kirei kotomine as she was bis direct student for many many years, meaning she can kick ass too, her level of strength and speed could be compared to kirei kotomine along with fluid magic use within combat.

When was it established that Rin was on Kirei's level in terms of physicals? I get that IIRC Kirei himself even mentions Rin's better at mage-craft than himself at one point, but in terms of physicals I'd like to know where you got that from.

Seeing as rin tohsaka was able contend against servants within the grail war herself along with showing strategies within each route,

Ok, this certainly seems a bit fallacious, cause saying she can tango with servants is incredibly misleading. The only reason she was able to fight Caster was exploiting her stated-to-be god awful H2H, and that was the only servant she really 'engaged' in pure combat.

if we must include every weapon rin tohsaka had, then we must include the jewel sword she wielded an powerful weapon, also known as the azoth sword, it not only amplifies the magical power of the wielder, even being able to kill an servant.

This shouldn't be much of an issue Rin's always preferred her gems over any other kind of combat in most scenarios.

Rin holds an high combat prowess along with being able to use enhancement magic, allowing her to take on even the heaviest of blows. Her speed and strength, plus intelligence makes her even able to take on vamp along with snake.

Not really, her actual physical showings aren't anything Vamp can't handle, considering Rin's durability is mediocre at the best of times. and at best supersonic speeds.

Shirou emiya, another case that is strange, but highly underestimated, depending on the route of emiya shirou taken, he could kill off the whole team, he is an major weapons support member as his projection magic allows him to recreate even the greatest of weapons from legends,

Yeah, but IIRC, creating the truly best of best like Saber's Excalibur takes a quite frankly absurd amount of mana, and isn't something Emiya can reliably do, nor is it an in character stunt for him to perform.

needless to say, he also holds the tohsaka family magic crest in the ubw route, however, in the heaven's feel route he has shown with the attachment of archer's (shirou emiya) arm he was able to gain the immense battle combat knowledge and power that archer, an servant of the counter force had that could easily triumph over the others within this team along with the others in the enemy, team.

In terms of raw incantations and by feats, Shirou isn't really on Archer's level, given that's he's never really fought someone like Lancer, who'd require high-speed incantations, without his reality marble, something not allowed fo him (not to mention I barely count Gilgamesh given how Shirou''s always been shown to be a hard counter to him).

Shirou with his added powers put together makes him able to contend against the others, even able to use noble phantasm abilities to wipe out countries and even cities.

Beg pardon, what? I'm gonna need sources/scans on that claim, cause even Archer himself never showed city level destruction, let alone Country level, which no one bar Gilgamesh has even close to.

However, one must make certain that fighting shirou would be more than likely fighting an monster, as his durability would make his healing factor high along

Avalon hasn't shown the ability to heal away complete loss of limbs AFAIK, like say a decapitation, so it shouldn't be much of a hurdle to get over.

with access to an unbounded amount of combat experience due to the arm he wields. He holds numerous attacks and skills that could easily overwhelm the other team, potentially fighting them on his own as he had shown to take on Hercules, an servant able to revive nine times that was also an boosted version of himself, (alter berserker from heaven's feel route) which was killed with nine slashes.

This leaves us at a bit of a tricky road to cross, cause we either claim Shirou=Berserker (which when considering all the other routes seems a bit inconsistent of him), which would put him way beyonds the limits of a street level tourney, mountain level attacks and all, or come up with another solution. Either way, not sure how this would help Shirou from not getting cut in half by an invisible cyborg ninja.

This means that vamp, snake, big boss, gray fox would all fall before emiya shirou in head to head combat, however, even stealth would be rendered upon facing him as he woukd be more than capable of predicting the movements and actions of these members.

Ok, wanna back up your claims with actual feats/scans showing Shirou dealing with invisible people, instead of essentially making baseless claims.

Now, having this much information of the members being able to contend greatly despite the assumed speed differences, however, that would be untrue as their reaction times would greatly defeat them along with the strategic abilities that would be able to defeat as well,

Any feats to back that up?

especially if it is the holy grail war, as each would be able to summon servants that would be more than able to wipe them out within an matter of seconds.

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Ok, now that is eyebrow raising. Ignoring the fact that you can't just summon lightning speed mountain busters in a street level tourney and that within the context of this scenario it clearly says "upcoming" HGW, but you do know how summoning Servants work right? That stuff takes days, if not weeks or months to prepare, with specific rituals, items and a bunch of other tomfoolery, you can't just go "Oh hey, let's just summon a famous ghost to murder my enemies with." at the snap of the fingers. Apologies if I come off as rude, but their's no way this could ever happen.

With that said, the fate magus team would greatly overpower the humans that would obviously only be able to contend for an moment before they would be overwhelmed by the many various skills of the magus within this team.

Yeah, I still think my team holds the advantage, for some very simple reasons.

Conclusion:

  1. My team still out-speeds you
  2. You still haven't purposed a counter to stealth, making it possible for an invisible Gray Fox or Snake to solo
  3. A lot of the feats you provided where ever overblown, felt inconsistent between the different routes, or lacking in context
  4. With next to no durability feats you provided, it's likely Snake and Gray Fox can one-shot basically everyone here
  5. The only real benefit your team has, which you've presented is versatility, which isn't enough.

All in all, my team wins with Gray Fox as MVP.

Ready for round 2?
Ready for round 2?
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#18 Posted by GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps (2585 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by TourneyMaster (1544 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikuyamaha: We have one week left for you to squeeze in one more post.

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#20 Posted by RikuYamaha (1480 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by TourneyMaster (1544 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikuyamaha: Need that last post tomorrow night or this will close out.