PYP round 3 (Higorm vs theTrueBarryAllen)

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boschePG

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@cadencev2

Rules

No Caption Provided

Master Hands jobs include in the list below.

  • Master Hand will make sure matches are made to give, for example, a all Kryptonian Team magic brass knuckles to help them beat a Ghost Rider Team that would otherwise stomp. Same for Psykers vs a non Psyker team.
  • Master Hand is also in charge of BFR. You can BFR a foe, teammates, or yourself for a total of 5 minuets. after that Master Hand forces you back to the arena where said BFRed person cannot be BFR again for 10 seconds. Anyone who played Smash Brothers understands this concept.
  • Master Hand also keeps Reality Warping and Time Traveling from happening with the mighty wag of his finger. You can slow time or speed it up. You can even Freeze time in certain a 100 foot radius for 10 seconds. But that is it. Molecule Manipulation and Transmutation are all allowed.
  • Master Hand makes sure each match give a 10 second No Rush policy. Your characters will have time to set up spells, force fields, ect before the fight starts. Speed Blitzing will come after 10 seconds.

Additional rules to know.

  • DC characters are all Pre 52 Unless stated otherwise.
  • All other characters are current unless stated otherwise.
  • All characters have standard Gear and no Prep Gear unless stated otherwise.
  • All characters are in character with morals on.

Conditions

  • Win by Death or KO.
  • BFR and Time Freezing lasts 10 Seconds only before Master Hand Returns all to Normal.
  • All are In Character
  • Battlefield: Earth and to the Moon.

Perks from Master Hand

none, deemed equal teams

@thetruebarryallen

Dr. Light, Mirror Master, Captain Atom

versus

@higorm

Ultron (Age of Ultron) Kang (Standard Gear), Dr. Doom

Let the game begin.

Thank me later for creating your battle

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HigorM

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#2 HigorM  Moderator
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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@higorm: Sorry I'm just getting to this, been rather busy since this was created in terms of creating a post. I'll work on getting something by midnight tomorrow, if you want to start it up before then thats fine, if not then I hope you're alright with waiting a day or so :)

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oceanmaster21

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@higorm: @thetruebarryallen: wow both my bros debating each other I will be watching this for sure tag me when voting starts:)

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HigorM

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#5  Edited By HigorM  Moderator
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oceanmaster21

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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#7  Edited By TheTrueBarryAllen

Good golly goshness I forgot to post an opener for this!

Well this will be short since I honestly don't know that much about your characters and their true capabilities, I look forward to seeing what you come up with during/throughout the debate.

Given the 10 seconds of prep time we have Mirror Master will create a vast amount of duplicates, he can do this with the push of a button, literally.

They replicate so quickly! It's like an uncontrolled population!

Also Captain Atom will create his own Justice League to fight alongside my fearsome trio, because his powers are crazy awesome.

Huzzah, Justice!

This now brings my team to quite the fearsome bunch, considering they've got their own Justice League replica, an army of Mirror Masters, Doctor Light, Captain Atom, and the original Mirror Master.

Also, the original Mirror Master will jump into the Mirror World because he prefers to fight from there, it's pretty in-character for him to do so as he views it as his own personal wonderland.

When your team attacks Doctor Light will square off against Doctor Doom & absorb the light from his eyes, thus blinding him effectively.

No Caption Provided

Mirror Master will then summon the Mirror World versions of your team to fight against yourself, he doesn't need any special summoning to do so, his gun is fully capable of it as we saw when Plunder activated it on purpose during the 'Wonderland' arc.

Considering your team is so fully of Shiny Objects Mirror Master is going to be a killer, especially since he can BFR your team rather easily & destroy the Mirror on them.

Also the Mirror World is filled with some nasty monsters and trying to fight back only creates more of them, eventually there would be too many for your team to fight, they just keep replicating!

Flash had to move at Lightspeed & then escape the second before they reformed into an unstoppable army, I don't know how fast your team is but I've never seen Doom, Kang, or Ultron move that quickly. Of course I know literally nothing about your team besides the fact that Doom looks pretty ballin'.

All this time Captain Atom will be manipulating energy & performing Molecule Manipulation on your team, maybe he'll turn Ultron into a can of grape soda or make Kang into a Giant Dumbell, who knows!

CA also has the Superhuman Strength to square off against your team in H2H combat, so that'd be a slugfest. Doctor Light will be zipping around blasting focused beams of light towards your team as well, and Mirror Master & his Duplicates can use his weapons to turn your team members into glass!

Also his duplicates are made of hard light constructs so they can still grab at & harm your team if they got into fist fights, though I don't expect MM to land a knockout blow with one of his fists, his tech is more useful than anything else.

So there we go, @higorm, sorry it's so short & kind of disorganized, but I wanted to get SOMETHING up and I had forgotten to when I said I would. I look forward to a great debate!

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HigorM

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#8 HigorM  Moderator

@thetruebarryallen: no problem! I´m in middle of something right now so I might delay one or two days to reply are you ok with that?

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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#9  Edited By TheTrueBarryAllen

@higorm: Perfectly fine with it :) I've been quite busy myself as I try to compile a respect thread for ALL of the Rogues. Take as much time as you need, as long as we don't forget our debate entirely!

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HigorM

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#10  Edited By HigorM  Moderator
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Pokergeist

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@thetruebarryallen: @higorm: Really glad to see this still going. I will Monitor it till your all done, then make the finals.

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HigorM

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#12 HigorM  Moderator

@cadencev2: sure bro no problem, I will get to it ASAP, but we are going to take this tourney to the end!

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HigorM

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#13  Edited By HigorM  Moderator

@thetruebarryallen: okay let´s make it happen!

I will first highlight this part of the rules:

  • All characters are in character with morals on.

Why is this important? Well, as far as I´m concerned, Mirror Master likes playing with his enemies and since my team comes from a different universe, he wouldn't know that Dr. Doom has magic. This will prove to be a fatal mistake from his part. McCulloch can't deal with magic, his powers can't save him from Dr. Doom's mystical prowess.

Second, your team is overall overcomed in tactical ability. The combination of Doom, Kang and Ultron together is too much for your team to handle.

Dr. Doom can also take care of most of Dr. Light's attacks since they are energy based and Victor can absorbe almost every kind of energy. Also, he doesn´t need to rely on energy based attacks to strike Dr. Light, since that would be the chance he needs to control Doom's energy attacks and use against him. So Doom's armor also includes weapons systems and defensive options that doesn't contain light based elements.

One example of said weapon is that his gauntlets contain a resevoire of microscopic particles, that on contact with the air, expand in size to the size of small boulders. He has sprayed these out through the air against Iron Man before. Both difficult to avoid and very damaging.

There is also the fact that Doom can transfer his mind in to another's body, through eye contact . He could simply lock down his armour, initiate the transfer. In Light's body, he could then subdue Light in his body and take his body back when the situation was secured.

He first uses it in Fantastic Four #10 and transfers into Reed's body:

Far from a one-time only power, Doom again makes use of the Ovoid Mind Transfer to save his life, recounting it in Fantastic Four #287:

No Caption Provided

And if using it twice doesn't convince you that Doom still maintains this ability, he uses it again to transfer into Zarrko's body in Fantastic Four #407:

No Caption Provided

And if you really still think he wouldn't use such a power in present comics, he used the Ovoid Mind Transfer again in Fantastic Four #507 to take over Sue's body, then Johnny's body, then Thing's body even while being assaulted. Even Thing's iron will isn't enough to stop Doom:

I know Dr.Light possess a lot of tricks, but since this is in character he is unliely to start blasting light to blind his opponents. What he normally do is hit them with energy attacks and the like so he won't be expecting a mental attack from Dr. Doom. This means of attack that Doom can perform is not commonly known so Doom, being a better tactician would use it when Light begins to overjoy, considering he may get the upper hand and Dr. Light has been shown to be a gloater before.

That's make two out.

As for summoning, my team can more than bring an entire army to this battlefield, starting with Dr. Doom and the Mindless Ones:

No Caption Provided

As for the hardlight duplicates, well, they are made of energy right? Energy that Dr. Doom can absorb, so that's gonna be a futile attempt of attack from your part.

More to come..

Considering Kang time manipulation powers, he can turn those 10 seconds into 10 hours or days. The Master Hand allows him to either slow or freeze time at will, and since he is doing it during the prep time, my team can get all resources they need to be prepared for the upcomming battle.

Kang can bring weapons and other gear from the timestream whenever he wants so his tech pretty much gives him instant gear to the point he just need to think about a specific equipment to bring it in. Once Kang steps into the battlefield he can slow time to prevent his enemies from any kind of sudden attack, and use his sensors to find out who he is dealing with and what he can do to defeat them.

In the next scan Kang is able to detect a time-shifted opponent who was using a local time dislocation:

No Caption Provided

One way to counter Mirror Master is to neutralize his tech, but since I don't know much about him, there is any tech related to his weapon? Because Kang can control tech at distance, and also Ultron who possess technopathy.

As for Dr. Light, Kang already manage to use one of his weapons from the timestream called Darkmatter beam which was capable to own Photon in her energy form:

So there's no much option for him in this scenario, he can't do much against my characters, who can counter his powers.

No Caption Provided

Now moving to Captain Atom, Kang can also use a specific weapon called inhibitor beam to depower him, just like he did against WonderMan:

No Caption Provided

So with time manipulation powers, Kang can build a scenario where your team will have to deal with weapons made specifically to work against them, they will struggle for their lives even before having a chance to engage into the real fight.

There's much more weapons he can use against your team, but this ones seems to be enough for the moment.

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oceanmaster21

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#14  Edited By oceanmaster21

@higorm: man I would do a cav with you but you would demolish me goodluck bro:)

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@higorm: When you say "more to come" does that mean you're waiting until I post more or that you're going to edit your post?

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HigorM

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#16 HigorM  Moderator

@thetruebarryallen: a little of both :P

I mean, I have more to add from Kang and Ultron, but you can post your game in the meanwhile so you don´t have to wait for me..

@oceanmaster21: thanks man ! But we can still do a CaV, always an opportunity to learn and gain experience :)

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@higorm: I'll just wait until you finish this post overall :) That way I'm not debating two different segments from one post at different times.

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HigorM

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#18 HigorM  Moderator
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#19 HigorM  Moderator
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TheTrueBarryAllen

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Alright, time to respond to all this.

I will first highlight this part of the rules:

  • All characters are in character with morals on.

Why is this important? Well, as far as I´m concerned, Mirror Master likes playing with his enemies and since my team comes from a different universe, he wouldn't know that Dr. Doom has magic. This will prove to be a fatal mistake from his part. McCulloch can't deal with magic, his powers can't save him from Dr. Doom's mystical prowess.

Sorry, Mirror Master isn't actually one too fool around all that much when it comes to serious matters, and his first move is going to be to jump into the Mirror World. McCulloch is addicted to the Mirror World, he believes it to be his own personal Wonderland, he wouldn't be one to just run up to Doom and try to shoot him or sock him one in the face, he fights smarter than that, he was actually one of the top assassins in the UK before becoming Mirror Master so he understands the aspect of getting the jump on your opponent, and the Mirror World is a perfect way to do so.

Though you're right, he wouldn't know that Doom has magic, however Doom doesn't know that there is a man on the battlefield who can summon alternate reality versions of everyone there with ease or appear in any reflective surface or BFR people into a pocket dimension and kill him, both teams don't really know much of anything about the other, I've got no Marvel guys but you've got no DC guys.

Second, your team is overall overcomed in tactical ability. The combination of Doom, Kang and Ultron together is too much for your team to handle.

Hah, you wish, but my team is going to be just fine in this fight.

Dr. Doom can also take care of most of Dr. Light's attacks since they are energy based and Victor can absorb almost every kind of energy. Also, he doesn´t need to rely on energy based attacks to strike Dr. Light, since that would be the chance he needs to control Doom's energy attacks and use against him. So Doom's armor also includes weapons systems and defensive options that doesn't contain light based elements.

Doom doesn't know anything about Doctor Light or his powers, he doesn't know what scale he can manipulate energy either. Doesn't Doom have a Force Field? If we're in character here I feel like Doom would throw that up before going into combat, which would allow Light to manipulate it and use it against Doom.

One example of said weapon is that his gauntlets contain a resevoire of microscopic particles, that on contact with the air, expand in size to the size of small boulders. He has sprayed these out through the air against Iron Man before. Both difficult to avoid and very damaging.

Interesting way of attacking, Light has the abilities to create a field of light particles around himself to protect him & could maneuver around them, blasting them apart with his energy attacks.

There is also the fact that Doom can transfer his mind in to another's body, through eye contact . He could simply lock down his armour, initiate the transfer. In Light's body, he could then subdue Light in his body and take his body back when the situation was secured.

He first uses it in Fantastic Four #10 and transfers into Reed's body:

Far from a one-time only power, Doom again makes use of the Ovoid Mind Transfer to save his life, recounting it in Fantastic Four #287:

And if using it twice doesn't convince you that Doom still maintains this ability, he uses it again to transfer into Zarrko's body in Fantastic Four #407:

And if you really still think he wouldn't use such a power in present comics, he used the Ovoid Mind Transfer again in Fantastic Four #507 to take over Sue's body, then Johnny's body, then Thing's body even while being assaulted. Even Thing's iron will isn't enough to stop Doom:

He's going to have to make some intense eye contact for that to happen, which will be difficult with all the combat going on between our teams, it'd also be difficult to even see Doctor Light's eyes with all the blinding energy attacks that he's firing. Plus, Mirror Master can bypass Doom's defenses and blind him from the Mirror World if Doctor Light fails to do so with his attack, thus nullifying the body switch.

Blinding People is fun.

I know Dr.Light possess a lot of tricks, but since this is in character he is unliely to start blasting light to blind his opponents. What he normally do is hit them with energy attacks and the like so he won't be expecting a mental attack from Dr. Doom. This means of attack that Doom can perform is not commonly known so Doom, being a better tactician would use it when Light begins to overjoy, considering he may get the upper hand and Dr. Light has been shown to be a gloater before.

If this is the scenario that you're presenting then Light is blasting away at Doctor Doom, hitting him with his light blasts, you might be right that he isn't going to go for the blinding attack on first instinct but if he realizes that the fight has been incredibly difficult for him then he'd most likely use it to give himself the upper hand. The mind swap technique also would be difficult for Doom to use during combat, Light enjoys killing people, and since he doesn't know or have any connection to Doctor Doom he isn't going to make it long and torturous like he would with someone who he has closer ties/rivalry with.

Plus, if Light doesn't blind doom then Mirror Master will, Doom literally has no counter for that attack.

That's make two out.

Not quite! I've got my counters down & set, hombre!

As for summoning, my team can more than bring an entire army to this battlefield, starting with Dr. Doom and the Mindless Ones:

Those are pretty cool, but it'll be difficult for Doom to summon an army while he's being beaten down by Doctor Light, and while he's blinded. If he does somehow manage to summon an entire army then Mirror Master can summon alternate versions of the army using his gun & then BFR the original army, now your army has effectively become our army.

If Plunder was able to shoot MM's weapon & cause it go summon alternate versions then it wouldn't be difficult for MM to do it on purpose to replicate Doom's army. The best thing is that the Mirror World army would probably be coming right out of Doom's reflective metal armor, allowing them to overwhelm & defeat your devious Doctor!

As for the hardlight duplicates, well, they are made of energy right? Energy that Dr. Doom can absorb, so that's gonna be a futile attempt of attack from your part.

They are made out of energy, however Doom's going to have to pick one or the other here. He's either going to be battling against Doctor Light, Summoning an entire Army, or trying to absorb the Hardlight MM duplicates. I honestly don't see an outcome where Doom is going to be able to accomplish all of this before he gets defeated, either by Doctor Light's energy blasts or by Mirror Master using his mirrors to BFR Doom & break the Mirror, especially when MM's hand could come out of a shiny part of Light's outfit or Doom's armor & easily send him to the Mirror World, an attack that Doom would NOT be prepared for at all, heck he wouldn't even know that Mirror Master is in the fight since he'd run to the Mirror World right at the start.

Considering Kang time manipulation powers, he can turn those 10 seconds into 10 hours or days. The Master Hand allows him to either slow or freeze time at will, and since he is doing it during the prep time, my team can get all resources they need to be prepared for the upcomming battle.

Well that's mighty cool, would you mind posting a scan just so I could see an example of this? Anyways, let's say you get some resources, my team will still be able to come out on top.

Kang can bring weapons and other gear from the timestream whenever he wants so his tech pretty much gives him instant gear to the point he just need to think about a specific equipment to bring it in. Once Kang steps into the battlefield he can slow time to prevent his enemies from any kind of sudden attack, and use his sensors to find out who he is dealing with and what he can do to defeat them.

I believe that he can obtain weapons & gear from the timestream whenever he wants, but I'm a tad skeptical about that last part. The Time Manipulation only lasts for 10 seconds and has a radius of 100 feet, none of my team has to be that close to Kang to hurt him. He may have sensors to deal with sudden attacks but if one of the Justice League members that Captain Atom created ( say someone like Flash for instance ) blitzes Kang then I don't think he's going to be able to sense & react in time.

Mirror Master could also BFR from a distance or just kill Kang's reflection, MM operates in a different dimension entirely so I don't think the Time Manipulation on Earth would have any effect on him, as he's not actually there, so he can still fight Kang, summon a mirror world Kang, or BFR Kang. He could also kill Kang's reflection since he'll be surrounded by all those lovely shiny objects.

Or Captain Atom could keep blasting at him with his Quantum Energy blasts.

In the next scan Kang is able to detect a time-shifted opponent who was using a local time dislocation:

I don't think that anyone on my team is going to be using a local time dislocation, but okay.

One way to counter Mirror Master is to neutralize his tech, but since I don't know much about him, there is any tech related to his weapon? Because Kang can control tech at distance, and also Ultron who possess technopathy.

Mirror Master's blaster is technology, his trick Mirrors however are not, they're just Mirrors made of a mysterious element that Samuel Scudder the 1st Mirror Master created, and he uses Mirrors not his blaster to BFR.

As for Dr. Light, Kang already manage to use one of his weapons from the timestream called Darkmatter beam which was capable to own Photon in her energy form:

Interesting, I don't know how Doctor Light would react to the Darkforce, but it probably wouldn't be pretty. Though that scan you posted looks like he caught Photon quite off guard, and the cannon was destroyed rather easily, Captain Atom could blast it if Doctor Light so happens to end up caught in it's path, thus freeing him.

So there's no much option for him in this scenario, he can't do much against my characters, who can counter his powers.

He has a lot of tech, I'll admit that, but my team has numbers & the versatility to work around this tech & destroy it.

Now moving to Captain Atom, Kang can also use a specific weapon called inhibitor beam to depower him, just like he did against WonderMan:

Alright, first he's going to have to hit CA with it, something that might be difficult to do, and you're trying to use an energy beam against one of the top powered energy manipulators in the DCU.

There are several ways to get rid of that Cannon, however lets just say that the Justice League replicas that CA creates take care of it, such as the Superman or the Flash replica.

So with time manipulation powers, Kang can build a scenario where your team will have to deal with weapons made specifically to work against them, they will struggle for their lives even before having a chance to engage into the real fight.

The Time Manipulation only works in a field radius of 100 feet for 10 seconds, my team has displayed that they don't need to be that close to combat your team & Mirror Master is working from an entirely different dimension so he won't be affected by such an ability. You may have lots of weapons but you're outnumbered, and you don't have any knowledge about my team.

How will Kang know what to bring in terms of weapons when he doesn't know the power-sets of my team unless he witnesses them for himself, you said you're going to manip time during the 10 seconds of prep that you have, but you wouldn't have encountered my team. You've also got nobody from DC on your lineup so they won't be able to let you know anything about my team, you've got prep masters but they don't know what they're going to have to prep for.

There's much more weapons he can use against your team, but this ones seems to be enough for the moment.

It appears that you may have to bring more weapons, or give me a reason to explain why Kang knows exactly what weapons to bring.

I suppose I'll sum up the advantages that my team holds over yours in this battle.

TTBA's Awesome List of Amazing Advantages!

  • You've got a team of Prep Masters yet none of them know anything about my Team. You've got all Marvel guys & I've got all DC guys. Because of this I don't see your prep time being used all that well unless Kang decides in character that he's going to bring every weapon ever to this battle.
  • You don't have a counter for Mirror Master, he's got one of the most unique power sets here & since he's jumping into a different dimension the moment this fight starts your team won't know about him until it's too late, they'll see the hardlight constructs & assume he's some sort of energy being or a duplicator.
  • You're outnumbered, which is funny because in all your other debates you'd bring massive armies in & have the advantage. My team is fully capable of dismissing your army into different dimensions while summoning our own version of it, thus giving us the advantage. Captain Atom is also able to create his own Justice League to give us assistance in this fight, and Mirror World versions of Doom, Kang, and Ultron can be brought in, and all the hardlight duplicates of Mirror Master. You are overwhelmed and overpowered.
  • Captain Atom's energy manipulation > Doom's energy manipulation
  • Captain Atom can pretty much devestate your team with molecule manipulation as well, there isn't anything preventing him from turning all those weapons you bring into jars of peanut butter or a crowd of monkeys. Captain Atom created an entire Universe with ease using his powers, manipulating some weapons isn't much of a problem.
  • Your team is shiny, this is going to give Mirror Master many easy opportunities to get the jump on your team & BFR them.

We've both got great teams here, as we've both made it to the Semi-Finals. I just think that my team is much more versatile & has abilities that your team can't possibly counter or learn to counter in time to save your lives.

I look forward to your next post @higorm!

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HigorM

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#21  Edited By HigorM  Moderator

@thetruebarryallen: sorry for the delay.

Though you're right, he wouldn't know that Doom has magic, however Doom doesn't know that there is a man on the battlefield who can summon alternate reality versions of everyone there with ease or appear in any reflective surface or BFR people into a pocket dimension and kill him, both teams don't really know much of anything about the other, I've got no Marvel guys but you've got no DC guys.

That would be irrelevant. Those alternate reality versions doesn't have enough power to pose as a threat. They can do little to nothing in this scenario. The amount of durability my team possess far exceeds your team or their power output combined. Also, I don't think your team will start the battle resorting to this kind of tactic. Otherwise my team is far more competent at BFRing the enemy, considering we have a time manipulator, a sorcerer and a technopath. We don't have info about each other, that's true, but my team is the only one capable of being prepared for yours during the 10 seconds no-rush policy.

Doom doesn't know anything about Doctor Light or his powers, he doesn't know what scale he can manipulate energy either. Doesn't Doom have a Force Field? If we're in character here I feel like Doom would throw that up before going into combat, which would allow Light to manipulate it and use it against Doom.

Yes but he can quickly figure out and react to it accordingly. Not to mention that Kang can give the jumpstart advantage to the team so they can make the first move, which would be decisive to the outcome of the battle. Dr. Doom possess a force-field, but I don't think Dr. Light would be a better energy manipulator in comparison to him. Also, my team will make the first move so he won't even know where the first strike may come.

With the 10 seconds, my team can become invisible to your team. Kang possess a tech cloaking device advanced enough to cloak his presence from Surfer, Doctor Strange and Galactus, and in that particular occasion he had Dr. Doom with him. Considering that a cosmic being, a sorcerer supreme and an entity wasn't able to detect them, how will your team? The cloaking units proved to be effective against Magus control room as well.

So tell me how your team will manage to attack mine if they can't even see or find them? Once the battle starts, my team will be undetectable for yours, but not only undetectable, which is already a great advantage, but also Kang will use his time manipulation to slow time for your team, and even if you argue that my team won't reach them considering the 100 ft radius, which is silly because all my team members possess teleportation and since they are all invisible to your team those 100 ft radius can't save them, Kang can still speed up the time so my team can react absurdly fast in comparison to your team while operation in normal levels of speed.

Considering this scenario, my team will be capable of strike your team from multiple directions using their highly advanced tech, Dr. Doom's magic, which is something your team doesn't have an answer for or even better the Ovoid Mind Transfer which will prove to be very effective. This tactic can be done anytime during the battle. Doom will have all the time he needs to make eye contact with any of your team members, he can even jump from one to the other just like he did against the whole Fantastic Four team.

From Fantastic Four#507 to take over Sue's body, then Johnny's body, then Thing's body even while being assaulted. Even Thing's iron will isn't enough to stop Doom:

Basically, all your offensive concept in this battle will be useless considering my team can pretty much dictate the course of this fight. First, your team can't see or track my team, second they won't know how to defend themselves against the attacks, and even if they did know from where they are comming, Kang will prevent them to properly react.

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@higorm: It's alright, I've been super busy myself!

That would be irrelevant. Those alternate reality versions doesn't have enough power to pose as a threat. They can do little to nothing in this scenario. The amount of durability my team possess far exceeds your team or their power output combined. Also, I don't think your team will start the battle resorting to this kind of tactic. Otherwise my team is far more competent at BFRing the enemy, considering we have a time manipulator, a sorcerer and a technopath. We don't have info about each other, that's true, but my team is the only one capable of being prepared for yours during the 10 seconds no-rush policy.

Yes but he can quickly figure out and react to it accordingly. Not to mention that Kang can give the jumpstart advantage to the team so they can make the first move, which would be decisive to the outcome of the battle. Dr. Doom possess a force-field, but I don't think Dr. Light would be a better energy manipulator in comparison to him. Also, my team will make the first move so he won't even know where the first strike may come.

Kang stopped time in a 100 foot radius for your team for a maximum of 10 seconds, I don't see how this is a huge advantage for your team and I have a hard time believing that he's going to be able to accomplish everything you're saying he's going to accomplish in that time. Time hasn't stopped for everyone, it's only stopped for people in that radius, and it's only stopped inside of that radius, when Kang goes to gather materials somewhere else or Doom goes to gather materials time will be moving normally for them, it's not like my team is going to be frozen in place until the 10 seconds are up.

Doom probably would figure out that Doctor Light is an energy manipulator, I'd be surprised if he didn't, but it wouldn't mean that Doom would automatically be able to counter it and know his weakness on the spot. Doom has a force field but he has to remove it in order to attack from what I've seen/been told, if you can show me otherwise then we can discuss that fight more but I'm still giving the edge to Light, especially since Doom can easily be blinded by two of my team members.

As for Doctor Light & Doom & their levels of energy manipulation, Doctor Light has manipulated quite a few different types of energy with complete ease. He was able to control the magic lightning inside of Wonder Girls' Lasso, as well as control Superboy's heat vision & KO him without trouble. He also is able to absorb the powers of both Ray & the other Doctor Light and left them powerless, lastly he has messed with some of GL's Constructs. So Doctor Light is quite competent in the field of energy manipulation, plus we've got Captain Atom who I'd argue is the most powerful energy manipulator on this battlefield.

With the 10 seconds, my team can become invisible to your team. Kang possess a tech cloaking device advanced enough to cloak his presence from Surfer, Doctor Strange and Galactus, and in that particular occasion he had Dr. Doom with him. Considering that a cosmic being, a sorcerer supreme and an entity wasn't able to detect them, how will your team? The cloaking units proved to be effective against Magus control room as well.

Alright, the cloaking device shall prove to be some trouble, I'm honestly intrigued. If it works like invisibility works then it means that it is bending light photons around the people who are cloaked, thus making them appear to be gone & invisible. Doctor Light should be able to notice the change in particles if this happens, he's very in-tune with light & how it works. Your team is also going to have to attack my team which would blow your cover, and the fight would begin.

It also appears that Doctor Strange was able to track them to the cave, so he knew their general area, but didn't bother to search too closely.

So tell me how your team will manage to attack mine if they can't even see or find them? Once the battle starts, my team will be undetectable for yours, but not only undetectable, which is already a great advantage, but also Kang will use his time manipulation to slow time for your team, and even if you argue that my team won't reach them considering the 100 ft radius, which is silly because all my team members possess teleportation and since they are all invisible to your team those 100 ft radius can't save them, Kang can still speed up the time so my team can react absurdly fast in comparison to your team while operation in normal levels of speed.

Well once your team attacks my team then you'd give your position away, Captain Atom could manipulate the energy in the cloaking device you're using & short it out, or he could use his molecular manipulation to turn it into something else, such as a team-mate for my own team. Kang can slow my team, for 10 seconds, which means that you'd have to learn what could kill my team, obtain the required devices, and then proceed with the killing all of which happens in 10 seconds, I don't see that happening.

Once again, if Kang speeds up time then your team will have absurb reaction time, for 10 seconds. I'd like to see how useful this reaction time is when Doom is blinded and doesn't even know what he's supposed to attack.

Also, does this cloaking device prevent anyone from getting within the radius of it, because as mentioned before your entire team is incredibly shiny & even if you're in the cloaking device it doesn't mean that Mirror Master couldn't locate your team from the Mirror World, you're still going to have to compete with that.

Considering this scenario, my team will be capable of strike your team from multiple directions using their highly advanced tech, Dr. Doom's magic, which is something your team doesn't have an answer for or even better the Ovoid Mind Transfer which will prove to be very effective. This tactic can be done anytime during the battle. Doom will have all the time he needs to make eye contact with any of your team members, he can even jump from one to the other just like he did against the whole Fantastic Four team.

From Fantastic Four#507 to take over Sue's body, then Johnny's body, then Thing's body even while being assaulted. Even Thing's iron will isn't enough to stop Doom:

My team also has highly advanced tech, heck look at Mirror Master & his essentially "reality warping" devices.

Unless your team's tech is resistant to molecular manipulation then it's not going to be the end all be all, Captain Atom won't have a problem destroying it with the snap of his fingers. In terms of Doom's magic he's going to have a tough time against Captain Atom as Atom's Dilusteel Skin is indeed resistant to magic, it was shown to be so when he was used by Mirabi the sorceress to take down high level magic users.

The Mind Transfer is still something I don't see happening because it requires eye contact, and Doom has been blinded by either:

1.) Doctor Light & him removing the light from Doom's eyes

or

2.) Mirror Master & him creating duplicates to crowd up the reflective surfaces of his eyes.

How do you make eye contact when you're blind and can't see anything?

Basically, all your offensive concept in this battle will be useless considering my team can pretty much dictate the course of this fight. First, your team can't see or track my team, second they won't know how to defend themselves against the attacks, and even if they did know from where they are comming, Kang will prevent them to properly react.

My team & their offensive concept is not useless, it's been changed to work against your tech & powers but it's not useless, and it's not an easy victory by any means.

My team can still track your team using Mirror Master, you've still got reflective surfaces inside of that cloak of yours & he can travel through it.

Captain Atom is resistant to your teams magical attacks & has incredibly high durability for pretty much everything else. There is nothing to suggest that Kang would bring that weapon that he's used once to this fight since he doesn't know what kind of powers that the team he's going against is packing, and I have a hard time beliving that he'll be able to obtain it & hit Captain Atom in the 10 seconds that time is stopped.

You've still not discussed the Justice League that Captain Atom is creating to aid our team in this fight, and his energy manipulation surpasses that of everyone else on your team, he was able to create & destroy and entire universe with complete ease.

Kang may be able to prevent the attacks for a short period of time, but he can't protect them forever, and time wouldn't stop for Mirror Master considering he's in a different dimension & your team doesn't have any knowledge that he isn't on the battlefield. You blow your cover when you attack or Mirror Master locates your team before they attack, then it's only the flick of a wrist & you're in the Mirror World where he can deliver the killing blow.

This is still one of my favorite debates by the way, I'm glad we've kept this going. I look forward to your next post :)

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#23 HigorM  Moderator

@thetruebarryallen

Kang stopped time in a 100 foot radius for your team for a maximum of 10 seconds, I don't see how this is a huge advantage for your team and I have a hard time believing that he's going to be able to accomplish everything you're saying he's going to accomplish in that time. Time hasn't stopped for everyone, it's only stopped for people in that radius, and it's only stopped inside of that radius, when Kang goes to gather materials somewhere else or Doom goes to gather materials time will be moving normally for them, it's not like my team is going to be frozen in place until the 10 seconds are up.

It's not just a matter of a simple time freezing. Characters are also allowed to either slow or speed time. Kang can do both. He can speed the time in order to my team start acting and reaction a lot faster than your team, so by doing this, Kang doesn't need anything else, the 10 seconds rule won't matter anymore since my team won't need such time to accomplish the same task. This is similar to what happens to the Flash when he faces Zoom. It's basically the same principle. Now my team is operating at a higher level of speed and will be more than capable of performing what I've mentioned earlier.

Doom probably would figure out that Doctor Light is an energy manipulator, I'd be surprised if he didn't, but it wouldn't mean that Doom would automatically be able to counter it and know his weakness on the spot. Doom has a force field but he has to remove it in order to attack from what I've seen/been told, if you can show me otherwise then we can discuss that fight more but I'm still giving the edge to Light, especially since Doom can easily be blinded by two of my team members.

Why not? Dr. Light manipulates light, Dr. Doom manipulates energy, it's simple math, what do you think is going to happen? Also, his armor possess built in micro-computer analyzers which can easily figure out who the enemy is and what they are capable of, next scan proves it:

No Caption Provided

Also, he can more than attack while defending himself, he already did it before

Also, it doesn't matter if Dr. Light can manipulate energy well or not, he can't sustain a battle against Dr. Doom for long. He also lacks the durability and power to counter a powerfull magical blast for example. He's facing an enemy he never met before, so he won't know what may come from down for him to deal with. If in one hand we have Dr. Doom and several different ways to neutralize his attacks, there's no much Dr. Light can do against him to the point he would be able to provide enough power output to damage or even hurt him. I doubt Dr. Light could do anything close to this to defend himself from magical lightning strikes:

No Caption Provided

Alright, the cloaking device shall prove to be some trouble, I'm honestly intrigued. If it works like invisibility works then it means that it is bending light photons around the people who are cloaked, thus making them appear to be gone & invisible. Doctor Light should be able to notice the change in particles if this happens, he's very in-tune with light & how it works. Your team is also going to have to attack my team which would blow your cover, and the fight would begin.

I don't think this is going to be that simple. You see, a high-end cosmic manipulator like Silver Surfer, who can do anything Dr. Light can do but 10x better couldn't find them, now you want me to believe your guy will succeed where superior characters failed? Not to mention that there is no particles changing to notice. The 10 seconds rule will allow my team to be already cloaked before the fight starts, so there will be no trace to track, by any means avaiable for your team. Now as for the attack, how will your team be aware or even protect themselves from an unknown enemy they don't see? It's going to be one hit K.O.

It also appears that Doctor Strange was able to track them to the cave, so he knew their general area, but didn't bother to search too closely.

Wrong. In the first place, Dr. Strange only located a relay of reception next to the cave, not the real targets. Second, that was Dr. Strange, the sorceror supreme, I don't think you have anyone close to him in your team, not to mention even Strange asked for Surfer's assistance and even than that wasn't enough to find them, so basically your team is not finding mines. Also, if Surfer couldn't manipulate the energy around them, how could Cap. Atom fare any better?

Also, does this cloaking device prevent anyone from getting within the radius of it, because as mentioned before your entire team is incredibly shiny & even if you're in the cloaking device it doesn't mean that Mirror Master couldn't locate your team from the Mirror World, you're still going to have to compete with that.

The cloaking units already proved to be effective against Magus control room. I doubt Mirror Master could top that level of tech.

My team also has highly advanced tech, heck look at Mirror Master & his essentially "reality warping" devices.

Great! So all I need to do is set either Kang or Ultron to hack his tech, considering Kang manage to hack Iron Man before, and I don't even need to say what Ultron can do since he is a technopath. Now all his devices are useless against my team, and he is doomed.

Unless your team's tech is resistant to molecular manipulation then it's not going to be the end all be all, Captain Atom won't have a problem destroying it with the snap of his fingers. In terms of Doom's magic he's going to have a tough time against Captain Atom as Atom's Dilusteel Skin is indeed resistant to magic, it was shown to be so when he was used by Mirabi the sorceress to take down high level magic users.

Molecular manipulation you say? Let's see, choose one:

He possess built in gauntlets to perform molecular manipulation, so that's not going to be a problem for him.

The Mind Transfer is still something I don't see happening because it requires eye contact, and Doom has been blinded by either:

1.) Doctor Light & him removing the light from Doom's eyes

2.) Mirror Master & him creating duplicates to crowd up the reflective surfaces of his eyes.

How do you make eye contact when you're blind and can't see anything?

How my team is going to be blinded if they start the battle invisible to your team thanks to the cloaking device? They can all use personal cloaking units and they can all teleport. There is no room for blinding. Not to mention they are no sluch, how are you going to blind Ultron who is a robot? Kang and Dr. Doom who both have highly advanced armors, do you really think that this simple tactic would work? Come on..

You've still not discussed the Justice League that Captain Atom is creating to aid our team in this fight, and his energy manipulation surpasses that of everyone else on your team, he was able to create & destroy and entire universe with complete ease.

Dr. Doom can wipe them out with one single blast considering they don't pack the same durability of the real heroes. Talking about it, how fare they stand in terms of durability? Not to mention Kang can more than handle him, he possess weapons that can hurt Silver Surfer, who stands a league above Cap. Atom talking about overall power.

This is still one of my favorite debates by the way, I'm glad we've kept this going. I look forward to your next post :)

Me too brother :)

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#26 HigorM  Moderator
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@higorm: Alright, this will be my final post since it's Sunday & voting is going to begin later today!

It's not just a matter of a simple time freezing. Characters are also allowed to either slow or speed time. Kang can do both. He can speed the time in order to my team start acting and reaction a lot faster than your team, so by doing this, Kang doesn't need anything else, the 10 seconds rule won't matter anymore since my team won't need such time to accomplish the same task. This is similar to what happens to the Flash when he faces Zoom. It's basically the same principle. Now my team is operating at a higher level of speed and will be more than capable of performing what I've mentioned earlier.

Why not? Dr. Light manipulates light, Dr. Doom manipulates energy, it's simple math, what do you think is going to happen? Also, his armor possess built in micro-computer analyzers which can easily figure out who the enemy is and what they are capable of, next scan proves it

Alright, Doom figures out Light's powers & they fight.

Also, Light is an incredibly powerful manipulator of light energy, considering he was able to wrest control from Wonder Girls magical lasso which is powered by the Gods.

Just because Doom is also good at manipulating energy he wouldn't win that fight in a stomp, especially considering I'm still sticking by the fact that Doom will be blinded ( or possibly dead ) due to Mirror Master before these two ever actually get that far into a fight.

Plus if we wanna discuss whose better at manipulating energy I'd say that Captain Atom is the top energy manipulator here, he's not leagues below Surfer, they're quite similar in fact, it's just that Surfer is more popular and has a lot more to go off of than Captain Atom ( and the TV shows make Captain Atom look like a weakling hahaha ).

Also, he can more than attack while defending himself, he already did it before

Alright, cool. He can't have a full body field while attacking though right? I assume Doom can't shoot energy projectiles out of his shield, he'd have to open it up, blast, and then be fully protected again.

Also, it doesn't matter if Dr. Light can manipulate energy well or not, he can't sustain a battle against Dr. Doom for long. He also lacks the durability and power to counter a powerfull magical blast for example. He's facing an enemy he never met before, so he won't know what may come from down for him to deal with. If in one hand we have Dr. Doom and several different ways to neutralize his attacks, there's no much Dr. Light can do against him to the point he would be able to provide enough power output to damage or even hurt him. I doubt Dr. Light could do anything close to this to defend himself from magical lightning strikes

Well, Doctor Light isn't the only one attacking Doctor Doom in this situation, it's not just a 1 v 1 here.

The Mirror Master duplicates are still around & kicking, they haven't gone away. We discussed that because they're made of a hard light construct that Doom could possibly be manipulating their energy & make them all go away or "neutralize the threat". In order to do that he's going to have to take his focus off of a team with two incredibly powerful energy manipulators ( one of them who specializes in Light energy, which is what the constructs are made out of ) to try and remove these constructs from battle.

Doom has never faced anyone on my team either, sure he can figure out how their powers work but that doesn't mean that he'll instantly know how to beat them all, so if Doom is busy trying to fight off Captain Atom's Justice League duplicates ( which I'll go into detail about power & durability later on in this post ) the hundreds or possibly thousands of Mirror Master duplicates, and Doctor Light. If his field isn't full body when he's attacking then Doom is going to be really pressed for assistance in this battle, and I'm honestly betting that due to all the backup that Light has in this battle that Light is going to be the winner.

I don't think this is going to be that simple. You see, a high-end cosmic manipulator like Silver Surfer, who can do anything Dr. Light can do but 10x better couldn't find them, now you want me to believe your guy will succeed where superior characters failed? Not to mention that there is no particles changing to notice. The 10 seconds rule will allow my team to be already cloaked before the fight starts, so there will be no trace to track, by any means avaiable for your team. Now as for the attack, how will your team be aware or even protect themselves from an unknown enemy they don't see? It's going to be one hit K.O.

Alright, so Doctor Light probably won't be able to see through this field.

It seems that you keep adding to what your team is doing within those first 10 seconds but I'm fine with you cloaking yourselves before the battle begins.

As for any means available you've been counting out one of the most important members of my team and quite possibly the team MVP, Mirror Master.

As I discussed earlier in the 10 seconds that my own team has before the battle begins that Mirror Master is going to duplicate himself hundreds of times, creating the hard light construct versions of himself to fight alongside my team, at the 9th second he's going to jump into the Mirror World where he can stay for a grand total of 5 minutes before getting kicked out due to rules ( only for 10 seconds though ).

The Mirror World is what will allow Mirror Master to find your team, sure you're difficult to spot from outside the field, but it wouldn't be too hard to find you inside of your own field, and considering that you're still in the physical space that Mirror Master can operate in ( it's just hard to see you if you're outside of the field because cloak ) then you're still in incredible amounts of trouble.

The Mirror World has access to any and all objects/locations that are reflective objects. I'll post a scan below to show you what it looks like.

No Caption Provided

All those star looking things are portals through to reflective objects. If we look at your team you'd notice that every single person on your team is a rather shiny object, and considering they're inside the cloak and can see each other just fine that Mirror Master is going to be able to get inside your field VIA Mirror World.

Mirror Master can be the tracker for our team essentially, sending one of his own duplicates to reside on the Dilustel shell of Captain Atom ( also reflective ) to let my team know when your team is going to attack and what they're going to attack with. Mirror Master is effectively able to sabotage your plans & inform my team of what you're doing while you do it.

This also means that Mirror Master can easily attack your team once the 10 second grace period is up. From the looks of your plan you're probably going to teleport to my team and attack them while inside the cloak in order to try & use the element of surprise and try to 1-shot my team ( which I don't see happening here ). Mirror Master can also effectively blind Doctor Doom via usage of his clones & traveling into the reflective surface that is his eyes.

It doesn't matter what kind of armor that Doom is wearing on the outside, or if he has a special shield protecting him from attacks, this is traveling through a different dimension to end up on a reflective surface, and Doom isn't going to have a counter for that ability. Thus he is effectively blinded the moment this battle begins. Kang & Ultron are still fine, and I never actually said I was going to be blinding them, I'm just blinding Doom.

Once Doom is blind he won't stand a chance against the duplicates of Mirror Master & Justice League with the force of Doctor Light backing them up, he won't be able to read that scanner that informs him of Doctor Light's abilities, he won't know where the attacks are coming from, and he won't know what to attack. He has just as much chance of hitting someone on my team as he does blasting one of your own team members on accident.

Mirror Master has effectively nullified your "stealth approach" and Doctor Doom.

Wrong. In the first place, Dr. Strange only located a relay of reception next to the cave, not the real targets. Second, that was Dr. Strange, the sorceror supreme, I don't think you have anyone close to him in your team, not to mention even Strange asked for Surfer's assistance and even than that wasn't enough to find them, so basically your team is not finding mines. Also, if Surfer couldn't manipulate the energy around them, how could Cap. Atom fare any better?

I read that scan wrong then, but no, I don't have any magic users on my team. However in the reply about this I just explained how my team is finding yours. Mirror Master's unique power set would allow him to access the reflections that are your teams armor & tech.

The cloaking units already proved to be effective against Magus control room. I doubt Mirror Master could top that level of tech.

Mirror Master's tech is on the verge of low-level reality warping. His powers allow him to travel through dimensions via reflective surfaces. There is nothing to suggest from this "field" that you have that it would prevent Mirror Master from accessing one of the reflections inside of it, it's not like it would erase the portals to the reflections the moment it goes up.

Mirror Master is still very able to see & attack your team even when they're within the field.

Great! So all I need to do is set either Kang or Ultron to hack his tech, considering Kang manage to hack Iron Man before, and I don't even need to say what Ultron can do since he is a technopath. Now all his devices are useless against my team, and he is doomed.

Exactly! Oh wait, no not exactly! Mirror Master is in a different dimension so Ultron won't be able to attack Mirror Master unless he comes into the real world! Also Captain Atom is going to be able to mess with Ultron's abilities due to the fact that he has the ability to interfere with Tech!

Mirror Master is not doomed, nor are his devices useless. You've done nothing here to show that Ultron is going to be:

1.) Finding Mirror Master while he's in the Mirror World, Ultron can't even access the Mirror World.

2.) Attacking Mirror Master while he's in the Mirror World or trying to sabotage his technology while he's still in the Mirror World.

Molecular manipulation you say? Let's see, choose one:

He possess built in gauntlets to perform molecular manipulation, so that's not going to be a problem for him.

That didn't answer the question at all, you just showed me that Doom has gauntlets that allow him to shoot molecules that expand when released, it's like Flashes costume when he removes it from inside the Flash ring, it expands.

Doom may have tech that allows him to shoot out molecules but he doesn't have tech to manipulate molecules. He can't just snap his fingers & create an entire Universe out of nothing, he can't actually create or destroy matter, he can just displace it, at least from what I've seen in this debate.

Captain Atom on the other hand has complete access to the Quantum Field. He has access to infinite amounts of energy to do with whatever he sees fit. He was able to use his power to create an entire Universe out of nothing but his energy, he then created life inside this universe. He also had the ability to destroy his creations seeing as he can manipulate matter & energy on such a high scale.

I don't believe that Doom is going to be able to contend anywhere NEAR Captain Atom when it comes down to energy & matter manipulation. If Captain Atom can literally just break down and destroy ( not displace, destroy ) the molecules that makeup Doom's armor, tech, and Doom himself, then Doom would die.

In fact I don't think that anyone on your team can actually withstand such an attack.

How my team is going to be blinded if they start the battle invisible to your team thanks to the cloaking device? They can all use personal cloaking units and they can all teleport. There is no room for blinding. Not to mention they are no sluch, how are you going to blind Ultron who is a robot? Kang and Dr. Doom who both have highly advanced armors, do you really think that this simple tactic would work? Come on..

They're invisible to people outside of the field, Mirror Master can locate them based on the reflective objects that are them and get inside the field.

I'm glad your team can teleport? Mine can too, at least Captain Atom can jump through time via Quantum Leap & Doctor Light can teleport. I don't see what that has to do with anything regarding blinding from Mirror Master, there is tons of room for blinding, maybe not from Doctor Light but easily from Mirror Master.

1.) I'm not going to blind Ultron and I never said I was going to blind Ultron, I understand he's a robot and has no eyes, that'd be incredibly silly to even try.

2.) If Kang and Doom have eyes, like, actual eyes, then it means they're going to be in trouble when Mirror Master attacks. They have highly advanced armors that protect them from various energy blasts and physical attacks, they have nothing in those armors that suggest that they can defend their eyes from a man who can travel through reflective surfaces. I'll post the scan again but Mirror Master isn't going to have to break through the armor, he just has to access the Mirror World ( which he did during our 10 second grace period ) and then create duplicates of himself to reside in the reflections of your teams eyes ( not Ultron though because he doesn't have eyes, though I never said I'd blind Ultron ).

As we see from the scan he appears within the eye of his foe, he doesn't have to attack them head on, he just appears in the eye. This ends up blocking out what the person can see, thus blinding them, they just get a bunch of Mirror Master's face since he can create duplicates that reside within the eye.

I say that his duplicates can sit in the eye while he goes off and attacks others on your team because he was able to do that during Rogues Revenge, in the 2nd scan we see that while duplicates were blinding he was off attacking another Rogue imposter.

So, with Kang & Doom effectively blinded I don't see anything they're got to be helping them in this fight.

Dr. Doom can wipe them out with one single blast considering they don't pack the same durability of the real heroes. Talking about it, how fare they stand in terms of durability? Not to mention Kang can more than handle him, he possess weapons that can hurt Silver Surfer, who stands a league above Cap. Atom talking about overall power.

I don't see why they wouldn't be packing the same durability as one of the real heroes.

Captain Atom was able to create those life forms out of the Quantum Field, a source of infinite energy. Due to the fact that this energy is infinite he would theoretically be able to make exact replicas of these heroes, he created an entire universe out of nothing, if he can create life forms he can create durable life forms, especially when his energy source is infinite.

I'd love to see Kang handle them, especially when Kang is blinded.

Surfer does not stand a league above Captain Atom, from what I've seen here on the Vine people argue that the fights between Surfer & Atom would be incredibly close, Surfer generally comes out on top because he's has more to display, but in terms of offensive power they're both right close to each other, not leagues apart.

As far as Kang possessing weapons that hurt Surfer it doesn't mean those weapons will have the same effect on Captain Atom. Captain Atoms dilustel skin is much different than Surfers in terms of durability, however since Kang can't see what he's attacking I don't see why we'd have to argue that Captain Atom will even be hit by Kang.

Final Post Wrap Up

Now a lot of readers are probably going to want a little re-cap to follow everything that's been mentioned in this debate, I will do so with bullet points

  • Both teams granted 10 seconds of prep.
  • Team TTBA creates Justice League Replica & 100's of Mirror Master duplicates. Real Mirror Master goes into the Mirror World.
  • Team HigorM manipulates time to allow Doom & Kang to grab lots of weapons from their labs, they can't prep against team TTBA since they're never actually faced anyone on that team nor do they know their abilties unless they come in contact with the team.
  • Team HigorM uses an incredibly powerful cloaking field to prevent my team from spotting him, however Mirror Master can breach the field from the inside out due to Mirror World traveling capabilities. Mirror Master sends a duplicate of himself to tell Captain Atom exactly where Team HigorM is before they get the drop on Team TTBA.
  • Mirror Master uses his ability to move through reflective surfaces & appears within the eyes of both Doom & Kang. He doesn't need to worry about their armor since it has never been shown to prevent such an attack. Doom & Kang are now blinded.
  • Doom gets attacked by Doctor Light, Mirror Master duplicates, and the Justice League duplicates. Considering that Doom can't see where his attackers are coming from he is now lacking the ability to effectively defend himself or attack his foes. Doom goes down.
  • Ultron get's beaten down by Captain Atom in a brawl, once Doctor Light and friends are done with Doom they go to aid Captain Atom.
  • Mirror Master uses his abilties to BFR Kang into the Mirror World & breaks the Mirror. Since Kang is blinded and Mirror Master can move through the reflective surfaces on his armor, this shouldn't be a difficult task in any way shape or form. Mirror Master could also do this to Doctor Doom or to Ultron, the entire team is reflective.
  • Team TTBA wins.

Essentially Mirror Master proves too much for your team & ends up being the perfect counter for that cloaking field you have as I don't believe that Captain Atom or Doctor Light would be able to find your team from outside the field, thankfully MM can get inside it without any trouble.

With Doom & Kang blinded you lose some major players on your team, they have powerful tech but if they don't actually know or see what they're up against it wouldn't be that useful & my team would be able to overwhelm your own.

Ultron is the only one that stands a chance on your team at this point, but Ultron wouldn't be able to solo Captain Atom, Doctor Light, Mirror Master, Mirror Master Duplicates, and Justice League duplicates, it's just not possible and nothing that you've shown of Ultron conveys that he'd be able to do so.

Your team also doesn't have a defense for being BFR'd into the Mirror World from Mirror Master, and considering he can instantly kill people the moment he shatters the mirror they get trapped in your team is as good as dead.

It's been a lovely debate, I can't wait to see what the voters say. Hope you had as much fun as I did :)

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HigorM

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#28 HigorM  Moderator

It's been a lovely debate, I can't wait to see what the voters say. Hope you had as much fun as I did :)

@thetruebarryallen: Nice debate indeed, It was very fun and I'm glad I could give a different approach from what I had been giving, mostly because of your versatile team :)

let´s see what the voters think of this fight!

@cadencev2: I believe we are ready for votes.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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Since we've both said we're ready for votes I think it's alright that we tag voters & don't have to wait for Cadence to say so haha

Vote please?

@jokergeist, @kidman560, @oy_the_billy_bumbler, @fetts, @cosmicallyaware1, @thundergodswrath, @oceanmaster21, @deathstroke19, @boschepg, @beatboks1, @cadencev2, @allstarsuperman, @dratini1331

That's all I can think of off the top of my head for now, but if anyone sees this and wants to vote, we'd love to have your input. HigorM & I had an incredibly fun match against each other and one of us hopes to move on to the finals to face boschepg!

Remember when voting:

  • Vote for who you think represented their team better, not who you think would win in an actual fight
  • Please try & keep the bias at home
  • Giving reasons as to why you voted for a certain user helps both of them realize what they did well and what they could have possibly improved on, it's not required but it helps
  • Have fun with it & be respectful :)

Thanks!

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cosmicallyaware1

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@thetruebarryallen@higorm: fantastic debate gentlemen! In all honesty I am shocked because going into this with the teams I already had it in my head that Higor's team was going to win and I would vote that way (KILLER team!!!!) BUT......thetruebarryallen convinced me with his debating and argumentation presentation that his team pulls off the win. Higor, nothing against you man, and in all actuality it was very difficult for me to decide , i swayed many times (excellent presentation by you as always).

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Oy_the_Billy_Bumbler

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Voting for @thetruebarryallen. He used his whole team to their full potential. It's amazing how he can take characters like Dr Light and Mirror Master and make them look like the most over powered characters ever. He does this while keeping them in character too, which is even more impressive. He's not using feats that are just cheap strategies and rarely seen from his team.

I think @higorm was very close behind though and was only a hair away from taking the lead. I would have liked to see more from Ultron, because he was absent from a lot of this debate. The debating with Dr Doom was top notch though, and the biggest reason why this was such a great read.

Awesome job to both of you. This could really go either way.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@oy_the_billy_bumbler: @cosmicallyaware1: Thanks to both of you for taking the time to read through it all and vote! It most definitely can go either way as both Higor and myself had the other on the ropes at one point or another!

Current Score

TTBA - 2

  • Cosmicallyaware1
  • Oy_The_Billy_Bumbler

HigorM - 0

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cosmicallyaware1

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@thetruebarryallen: not a problem man, it's always fun to read a well put together debate. BTW, i just sent you a PM on that same topic! :)

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kidman560

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lol @thetruebarryallen nice job... Mirror Master is a force to be reckoned with but he still isnt as strong as the Shade :P good job you get my vote

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Pierpat

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@pierpat: @kidman560: Thanks you two for voting! I agree Kidman, Shade would probably be too much for Mirror Master in a fight!

I'm glad that Mirror Master has earned your respect from now on Pierpat, he's one of my favorite villains even though he seems incredibly goofy :)

Current Score

TTBA - 4

  • Cosmicallyaware1
  • Oy_The_Billy_Bumbler
  • Pierpat
  • Kidman560

HigorM - 0

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Dratini1331

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I'm torn, part of me wants to say @thetruebarryallen for his high level energy manipulation, ability to blind and ability to make an army out of nowhere. The other part is pulling for @higorm due to technopathy and the huge amount of prep given to prep masters.

I think I'm going to go with TTBA, as much like TTBA pointed out, with no knowledge, much of the prep would be hard to pull off. I also agree that I don't think technopathy would work after Mirror Master went into the mirror world.

I'm open to being swayed though. It's a good debate on both sides. I do feel like there really wasn't anything going on for CA and ultron, though it's a PYP, so I can't fault people for tending to favor certain characters.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@dratini1331: Thanks for voting ^_^

I admit I did post more "feats" for both Doctor Light & Mirror Master but it was because I didn't really see anything that would prevent Captain Atom from doing what he normally does in a fight & blasting away at his foes with Nuclear Blasts & powerful Quantum Energy, especially with 2/3 members of his team blinded.

If I do move onto the finals I'll make sure to show some more Captain Atom love :)

Do you want me to apply your vote to the current scores or shall I leave you absent for now, you said you were "open to being swayed" so I don't want to put you down for a vote unless you're 100% sure with it.

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Dratini1331

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@thetruebarryallen: Right now, it's a vote for you, but I'm not sure if I missed something Higorm posted. But, as of now, I'm definitely voting for you.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@dratini1331: Alright, if at any point that changes I will shift your vote :)

Current Score

TTBA - 5

  • Cosmicallyaware1
  • Oy_The_Billy_Bumbler
  • Pierpat
  • Kidman560
  • Dratini1331

HigorM - 0

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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HigorM

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#44  Edited By HigorM  Moderator
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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@higorm: Don't count yourself out quite yet!

I had a tournament match against TRV in which he pulled ahead at the start with 5 or 6 votes, I wanted to just give him the win right then and there when all of a sudden a bunch of voters came in and tied things up. He eventually won the match 8 to 9 but it was incredibly close :)

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HigorM

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#46  Edited By HigorM  Moderator
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#47  Edited By oceanmaster21

@thetruebarryallen: @higormdon't be mad bros but I cant decide a winner you both did fantastic that was epic I call stalemate:) thanks Bros

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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UPDATE

I have been moved to the final rounds after a discussion with HigorM. He's been extremely busy, thought I put up a fantastic debate, and told me that I deserve to move on to the finals.

VOTING IS CLOSED.

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deathstroke19

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I'm voting for @thetruebarryallen: as he seemed to prove to me that his team could defeat the other when I was almost sure his team would get stomped. Both sides did great but I would have liked to see a little more from CA and a lot more from Ultron. But still nice job guys.

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deathstroke19

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@thetruebarryallen: Crap, I started reading it ten minutes ago and the page didn't refresh so I didn't even see voting was closed. Sorry :(