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#1 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero

  • Psylock (Omega) (3)
  • Weather Wizard (Pre/New 52) (3)
  • Mr Satan (0)
  • Its Personnel
  • Soul Stones

@mr_ingenuity

  • Law (4)
  • The Hood (2)
  • Multiple Man (1)
  • Mental Helmets

General rules as followed.

  • BFR is not a win, only Death, or KO.
  • All Characters are in character.
  • All battles are random.
  • Cannot summon outside help.
  • Everyone carries only Standard Gear.
  • Teams will work together, but characters with prior teamwork will work better.

Top team starts far left. Bottom team starts far right.

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#2 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14705 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero I'll have my strategy up in several hrs.

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#3 Edited by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: @mr_ingenuity: Cool.

Team: Money Mayweather & His Trap Queen

Omega Psylocke: Job, mess with minds/TK

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Specialty: Mind **** & Brain Pop(TK/TP)

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Weather Wizard: Job: To F**** S*** Up

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Specialty: Weather Powers

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Hercule: Job: Rubbing Psylocke's Feet & Shoulders

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Specialty: Being THE GREATEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD!!!!!

Important Perks:

Morals Off(It's Personal)

Soul Stone(No Soul Rape) Just in case Hood has any Dormammu shenanigans planned.

Teamwork:

Neither one of our teams have any real reason why to hate each other or not work together for mutual survival reasons.

Plan:

In character neither of our teams know anything about the other outside of Madrox & Betsy, but I have a rather simple plan.

  1. Psylocke Will Place A Protective TK Shield Around Us & Fly Us Upward(hopefully way beyond your reach).
  2. Psylocke Will Create Illusions of monsters & mask our actual whereabouts from your team.
  3. Read your minds(not the Hood's probably), and see a good amount of your plan.
  4. Pyslocke will find you mentally & squeeze your brains via TK.
  5. Honestly she'll probably sense very early something is off about the Hood and know not to try and invade his mind.

Meanwhile:

  1. Weather Wizard will be mindlinked with Psylocke.
  2. Weather Wizard with create inside tornadoes into your bellies. He'll know your exact location via mind link from Psylocke. (Probably not the Hood's Location)
  3. Weather Wizard will create a blizzard of absolute zero to protect us from any incoming attacks.

Considerations:

Now before you yell/talk at me for a a few things let me assure you:

1. Yes I see you have the Mental Helmets, but if you read the rules on it, it actually says:

  • Mental Helmets that will protect your character from mental assaults only. Not defensive use of mental powers.

So it only protects you from straight up mind rape/mind assault/etc. You're still going to have to come up with some form of actual TP defense for other things and usage of TP powers.

2. Yes I realize(not my team, but Me Lukehero) that The Hood can see through illusions via Dormammu Powers. Yeah, yeah he did it in Dark Reign, So he'll still be able to see us.

3. Yes I realize maybe trying to put a mental foothold on The Hood isn't happening, that's fine because I still know where the rest of your teammates are. So if we can't find him initially, it will quickly become a 2 vs 1 situation in which we will win and we will eventually find him. Or, he may just get caught up in the absolute zero blizzard and die.

Scans:

TK Brain Squeeze/Bubble:

This feat is from New Excalibur 2005 #8

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Inside Tornadoes:

Rogues in Rogues Revenge #2

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Blizzard Of Absolute Zero:

Forever Evil: Rogues Rebellion #5 - Fastest Psychopath Alive

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Conclusion:

You're team is going to have to deal with:

  1. Illusions: Right off the bat as I said I can only think of is The Hood who will see if.
  2. If he tries to tell his teammates where we are he'll have to convince them first that these are just illusions(that could take awhile).
  3. Your team is getting TK Brain popped(gonna need those brain/head durability feats).
  4. Your team is getting inside tornadoes(gonna need organ durability feats).
  5. Your team is being frozen to absolute zero in the storm below us(as we are above all that). So you are gonna to show some cold resistance feats.

I see your team being confused from the illusions except The Hood of course. Even if you have some brilliant scheme involving massive clones & Law: we honestly can avoid his Blue Bubble(Shambles) technique from what I have seen at least. It's a very large size, but I doubt it will cover the entire city area we are in. Unless of course you show me/voters otherwise.

That's all for now. I certainly don't expect anything less than a good battle.

Oh and shout outs to @thetruebarryallen & @sovereign91001 for info, scans, and ideas. Thank you. Gotta give the homies some credit and love.

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#4 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14705 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero:

Your team is deadly I’ll give you that much credit. It should be interesting debating a top poster of battles.

Opening Strategy

My team will focus on offense from the start as there isn’t any defensive buffs they can offer one another.

Trafalgar Law The Surgeon of Death

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Law’s Room (the space Law governs with his abilities) grants him many abilities such as spacial awareness, levitation (pseudo TK), spacial cutting, teleportation & a score of of other abilities. Teleportation is key because it’s Law’s primary method to keep your team in his Room and instantaneously attack. Law’s teleportation works by switching the locations of any object within his Room, which his spacial awareness gives him knowledge of. It’s very precise as Law has switched a dead mook into his cloths to take repeated gun shots unnoticed. It also works in combat, Law uses this tactic to unexpectedly gain the advantage.

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Form the very start Law will set up his Room surrounding your team, allowing him to operate on them. Next teleporting/switching himself with Mr Satan, & stab his Gamma Knife into Weather Wizard. The Gamma Knife is the most deadly tool in Law’s arsenal as it ruptures internal organs without leaving a wound. Without a healing factor or a way to undergo immediate surgery to mend his organs it will be an instant death for Weather Wizard.

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The next target is Psylocke & seeing as she’s street level in combat speed she’ll be unable to defend herself in time and be hit with countershock. An electrical attack capable of killing a giant leaving him smoldering in the snow.

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The Hood (Parker Robbins)

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The Hood will have access to the norn stones while empowered by Dormammu. The Hood’s often used abilities would are intangibility, invisibility, levitation & hell fire/norn stone amped guns. He also minor powers such as teleportation, Dormammu empowered sight (allowing him to see past illusions & obstructions) healing, resurrection & grant teammates amps in stats/abilities

It should be noted The Hood doesn’t have a limit on his abilities will in use he can use his powers indefinitely. Also attack while intangible and use intangibility while invisible.

Raining bullets while phasing through a wall.

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As for strategy Hood uses intangibility and invisibility with a hail of gunfire. Considering Mr Satan will be appearing in his mists The Hood will have someone to shoot.

Multiple Man (James Madrox)

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Madrox powers is easily summed up with a Handbook entry.

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Although it should be noted Mardox has produced far more than forty dupes. He’s created enough dupes to search Detroit.

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Mardox has one ability and it’s the only thing he’s good at in a fight. So he’ll spam dupes until he runs out of space. Considering his teammates are taking on the majority of the battle Mardox most likely won’t get that far.

Rebuttal

Plan:

In character neither of our teams know anything about the other outside of Madrox & Betsy, but I have a rather simple plan.

Psylocke Will Place A Protective TK Shield Around Us & Fly Us Upward(hopefully way beyond your reach).

This is unnecessary considering Law is teleporting to them. With that Law has Psylocke outclassed in reaction speed so he’ll win every draw.

Law’s reaction speed feats.

Reacts to meteors & redirecting them in the air.

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Saves Sanji form a whip that stretched across an island cutting down a tower.

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Even catches said whip with his sword.

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Psylocke Will Create Illusions of monsters & mask our actual whereabouts from your team.

Laws spacial awareness mean he’ll know the location of everything within his Room his senses are an after thought. Beyond his spacial awareness he has haki allows him to perceive enemies presence, aura or spirit. It also allows Law precog to see your team’s movements in advance.

Read your minds(not the Hood's probably), and see a good amount of your plan.

The number of psionic abilities Psylocke is using before attacking means she’ll be far too occupied to fight Law. Who will be next to Weather wizard before she completed her first tactic.

Pyslocke will find you mentally & squeeze your brains via TK.

By this time Law has used countershock.

Meanwhile:

Weather Wizard will be mindlinked with Psylocke.

Weather Wizard with create inside tornadoes into your bellies. He'll know your exact location via mind link from Psylocke. (Probably not the Hood's Location)

Considering Weather Wizard is waiting for this info form Psylocke I don’t think this plausible. Pinpointing my team’s location seems to be required before this can be done otherwise he’ll be creating miniature tornadoes across the battlefield.

Weather Wizard will create a blizzard of absolute zero to protect us from any incoming attacks.

That’s fine seeing as it’s meant for protection it won’t affect a teammate next to Weather Wizard which is the opening that benefits Law. Hood is intangible and has teleportation. Madrox is the only vulnerable character on my team.

we honestly can avoid his Blue Bubble(Shambles) technique from what I have seen at least. It's a very large size, but I doubt it will cover the entire city area we are in. Unless of course you show me/voters otherwise.

Note the small island.

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#5 Edited by PreCrisisBardock (8908 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero: Read your post with the Hercule rock theme playing.

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#6 Edited by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: @sirfizzwhizz: Before I bother posting a response, wait are we really allowing the Norn Stones? It's not even standard gear for a Dormammu possessed Hood. Dormammu didn't give The Hood the stones. He was given the stones by Loki. Then Loki took them back during the Seige, it was never his gear in the first place. The stones are Loki's. Are we seriously going to allow people have items they have used in a single story arc that never belonged to them? :/

  • Everyone carries only Standard Gear.

@precrisisbardock:COOL.

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#7 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14705 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Edited by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: @mr_ingenuity:Then we seriously need to talk Sirfizz Whizz. I can only surmise that Sirfizz for some reason thought that the Stones were standard gear, but if you have read the comics with The Hood(I'm sure you have Mr. Ingenuity) then you know what I am saying about Loki giving him the stones and them not being standard to be 100% true, despite anything Sirfizzwhizz may have given you permission to do**.

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#9 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14705 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero: There are composite feats of many characters and at one point the stones were standard gear.

Also I can't use Dormammu transformation, so it isn't unbalanced.

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#10 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: They were never standard, just because a character uses something(even repeatedly) doesn't make it standard. If the logic of using an item repedatly and having acess to it = Standard Gear. Then in every tournament Reed Richard would be allowed to use the ultimate nullifer.

Also I can't use Dormammu transformation, so it's isn't unbalanced.

What's that got to do with anything, we're discussing whether or not you should have the stones. Transforming into Dormmau would be ridiculous since this is a low level midtier tournament.

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#11 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: @lukehero: my definition, anything a character used more than one battle is standard to me. As far as the stones go they are reasonable in feats too. So as long they are used in seperate occasions, I will allow them.

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#12 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: @sirfizzwhizz: I totally disagree, but I guess I have to live with it and move on. Standard gear is something the character would normally be walking around with during any random encounter. Also the Norn Stones themselves are not reasonable for a mid tier tournament of this caliber. During the Siege The Hood used the stones to empower all of his teammates. Mr. Ingenuity hasn't done that and not saying that he necessarily will. I'm just saying they are the freaking Norn Stones, that's some hella mojo for a 2 point character.

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#13 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: @sirfizzwhizz: I'm gonna post something hopefully today or tomorrow then I will let you of course have the last post Mr. Ingenuity(as long as you don't bring up any new points). I honestly think this battle is going to end up being pretty cut and dry.

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#14 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14705 posts) - - Show Bio

Give this a bump due to post limit.

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#15 Edited by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: Sorry I haven't posted yet. I am going to get to this and hopefully give you a decent response that leaves you enough time to post a counter.

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#16 Posted by Sirfizwhiz (1412 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14705 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizwhiz: I was certain this was dead, but I'll stick it out

Also you're not SirFizzWhizz.

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#18 Posted by Sirfizwhiz (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizwhiz: I was certain this was dead.

Also you're not SirFizzWhizz.

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Other account has "too many flags" because I called some guy with a few posts attacking me a newbie. So its locked for a few days. Meh.

but this is not dead, its a Sirfizzwhizz/(cannot reveal identies) Tournament. I always try to finish these. I am the tourney king in all reality.

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#19 Edited by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizwhiz: @mr_ingenuity:

Sorry I took so long, I read your post over again and some of this stuff isn't going to matter as far as arguments go, it's really cut & dry and it's all about who viners believe will get off their attacks first: me or you.

Rebutals:

This is unnecessary considering Law is teleporting to them. With that Law has Psylocke outclassed in reaction speed so he’ll win every draw.

Law’s reaction speed feats.

Reacts to meteors & redirecting them in the air.

He(Law) can move at the speed of thought, because besides having to raise us into the air all of my plan is happening at the speed of thought because Psylocke's powers are all mentally activated.

Laws spacial awareness mean he’ll know the location of everything within his Room his senses are an after thought. Beyond his spacial awareness he has haki allows him to perceive enemies presence, aura or spirit. It also allows Law precog to see your team’s movements in advance.

As he is thinking his mind will be flooded with confusing illusions. I noticed you didn't have a ral counter for this, but it's OK because we both know none of your team outside of the Hood can resist any TP.

The number of psionic abilities Psylocke is using before attacking means she’ll be far too occupied to fight Law. Who will be next to Weather wizard before she completed her first tactic.

No. She is an Omega Level Telepath and quite skilled. She can walk & chew bubble gum at the same time so to speak. This should be common sense really without me having to scan spam feats for her.

By this time Law has used countershock.

She can completely alter his perceptions via TP, he(Law) won't know which way is up and will never get off an attack in the first place.

Considering Weather Wizard is waiting for this info form Psylocke I don’t think this plausible. Pinpointing my team’s location seems to be required before this can be done otherwise he’ll be creating miniature tornadoes across the battlefield.

This is happening at the speed of thought. In comparison my understanding of Law has to raise his arms to use his room yes? So in comparison the few secs it takes him to raise his arms he's mind is already being filled with illusions and his perception of what the heck is going on is already corrupted.

That’s fine seeing as it’s meant for protection it won’t affect a teammate next to Weather Wizard which is the opening that benefits Law. Hood is intangible and has teleportation. Madrox is the only vulnerable character on my team.

After my team deals with the rest of yours, Hood will get a TK Blade or TK arrow(From Psysocke) in the face as they are meta physical. They will still hit him as I'm pretty sure the Hood as to come out of his Infallibility mode to actually attack.

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Your Plan:

Form the very start Law will set up his Room surrounding your team, allowing him to operate on them. Next teleporting/switching himself with Mr Satan, & stab his Gamma Knife into Weather Wizard. The Gamma Knife is the most deadly tool in Law’s arsenal as it ruptures internal organs without leaving a wound. Without a healing factor or a way to undergo immediate surgery to mend his organs it will be an instant death for Weather Wizard.

The next target is Psylocke & seeing as she’s street level in combat speed she’ll be unable to defend herself in time and be hit with countershock. An electrical attack capable of killing a giant leaving him smoldering in the snow.

The Hood (Parker Robbins)

The Hood will have access to the norn stones while empowered by Dormammu. The Hood’s often used abilities would are intangibility, invisibility, levitation & hell fire/norn stone amped guns. He also minor powers such as teleportation, Dormammu empowered sight (allowing him to see past illusions & obstructions) healing, resurrection & grant teammates amps in stats/abilities

It should be noted The Hood doesn’t have a limit on his abilities will in use he can use his powers indefinitely. Also attack while intangible and use intangibility while invisible.

Raining bullets while phasing through a wall.

As for strategy Hood uses intangibility and invisibility with a hail of gunfire. Considering Mr Satan will be appearing in his mists The Hood will have someone to shoot.

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All of your plan is taking secs. The majority of my plan is honestly only taking millisecs since Psylocke's powers are mentally activated. Outside of raising up our team of course all of this is going to happen very quickly. Even Weather Wizards blizzard will seem to happen in an instant as I already showed his storm being set off in time enough to react to Johnny Quick.

Plan:

In character neither of our teams know anything about the other outside of Madrox & Betsy, but I have a rather simple plan.

  1. Psylocke Will Place A Protective TK Shield Around Us & Fly Us Upward(hopefully way beyond your reach).
  2. Psylocke Will Create Illusions of monsters & mask our actual whereabouts from your team.
  3. Read your minds(not the Hood's probably), and see a good amount of your plan.
  4. Pyslocke will find you mentally & squeeze your brains via TK.
  5. Honestly she'll probably sense very early something is off about the Hood and know not to try and invade his mind.

Meanwhile:

  1. Weather Wizard will be mindlinked with Psylocke.
  2. Weather Wizard with create inside tornadoes into your bellies. He'll know your exact location via mind link from Psylocke. (Probably not the Hood's Location)
  3. Weather Wizard will create a blizzard of absolute zero to protect us from any incoming attacks.

=================================================================

Keep in Mind, my plan is not happening slowly one at a time, it's happening fast and all of these things are going on simultaneously.

Just to give you an idea how fast the speed of thought is here is a quote from a science article on brain neuron stimulus:

http://www.science.smith.edu/departments/neurosci/courses/bio330/pdf/94CurrBiolTovee.pdf

In almost all studies of a neuron's response to a stimulus, the response is sampled over long time periods, usually around 300 to 500 milliseconds (ms).

So, again this confirms the fact that the massive majority of what Psylocke will be doing will be happening in a few milliseconds compared to the seconds that your plan will be going off.

Conclusion:

It will be mere milliseconds that the majority of Psyclockes powers will be going off, compared to the secs it will take for your time to visually find us, make the switch with Hercule, use your powers, and Law to raise his arms to use his special Room ability. By that time Psylocke will be deep in his mind and will be toying with him. Madrox and Law die in the Snow Storm due to the fact they will be confused mentally via Psylocke, then we will all team up on The Hood and he will be killed off once he has to turn his intangibility off to actually attack.

The End.

Honestly your post only should be about who is going to shoot off their powers first. Nothing else really matters. Nice debating you.

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#20 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14705 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero:

Rebuttal II

He(Law) can move at the speed of thought, because besides having to raise us into the air all of my plan is happening at the speed of thought because Psylocke's powers are all mentally activated.

I’m not fully understanding the claim here. But from what I interpret, your claim is Psylocke thought speed makes up for her lack of reaction feats. Which needs to be substantiated but you haven’t presented the feats. The fact that she has to complete five telepathic feats in less than 1 second means Law wins the draw until feats are shown.

As he is thinking his mind will be flooded with confusing illusions. I noticed you didn't have a ral counter for this, but it's OK because we both know none of your team outside of the Hood can resist any TP.

It’s clearer that you’re under the impression Law can’t move faster than Psylocke can think. But I’ve shown feats Law teleports faster than characters with hypersonic combat speed can comprehend. I’m confident Sanji and Doflamingo would blitz Psylocke.

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No. She is an Omega Level Telepath and quite skilled. She can walk & chew bubble gum at the same time so to speak. This should be common sense really without me having to scan spam feats for her.

Not at all the same, she in a combat scenario you must present why she can react while someone is attacking her.

Here is an example using Psylocke feats & given that this is her analysis it’s completely accurate.

A feral Wolverine is stated to be overwhelming her on all fronts. Most notable front mentally, seen in the first scan last panel. Psylocke tries to use telepathy to shut Wolverine down & still couldn't do it in time stating “he’s not going to stop” Only after an intervention from certain death does she have time to focus to use powerful telekinesis.

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So if we can concluded Wolverine is her equal in terms of speed then Law speed blitzes without question.

She can completely alter his perceptions via TP, he(Law) won't know which way is up and will never get off an attack in the first place.

That is certainly an additional use of Psylocke's powers. A change from your previous strategy/statement.

“Psylocke Will Create Illusions of monsters & mask our actual whereabouts from your team.”

You’ve yet to substantiate the previous strategy beyond Psylocke is that good, is all the reason Law blitzes her. Considering Psylocke's feats validates my claims you’ll need considerable counter evidence.

This is happening at the speed of thought. In comparison my understanding of Law has to raise his arms to use his room yes? So in comparison the few secs it takes him to raise his arms he's mind is already being filled with illusions and his perception of what the heck is going on is already corrupted.

Incorrect Law room spawns from his open palm most of the time. Otherwise he spawns his Room at will in the exact place he thinks. Law has opened his Room on the other sides of Islands to teleport into them.

Law goes from talking to Luffy at a different location (than Caesar Clown’s lab) to an entrance of Caesar Clown’s lab via room teleportation.

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Also Law has hypersonic combat speed having fought Doflamingo and cut a meteor. So there is no way it takes more than fractions of a second to open his Room.

After my team deals with the rest of yours, Hood will get a TK Blade or TK arrow(From Psysocke) in the face as they are meta physical. They will still hit him as I'm pretty sure the Hood as to come out of his Infallibility mode to actually attack.

While we’re on the subject your team has no way to defeat The Hood, telepathy won’t work as mental attacks and illusions are countered. Neither will telekinesis, weather manipulation, and absolute zero because The Hood doesn’t have mass when intangible. Even if a way hurting him is found defeating is still out of the question as The Hood can heal indefinitely with norn stones. While assaulting your team with building busting bullets.

Also I’ve shown The Hood can be intangible and attack simultaneously.

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All of your plan is taking secs. The majority of my plan is honestly only taking millisecs since Psylocke's powers are mentally activated. Outside of raising up our team of course all of this is going to happen very quickly. Even Weather Wizards blizzard will seem to happen in an instant as I already showed his storm being set off in time enough to react to Johnny Quick.

You’re selling my team short for no apparent reason. Psylocke can somehow work in milliseconds But Law and Hood somehow takes entire seconds to teleport and become intangible. I find that completely contradictory to the feats I’ve shown.

You’ve admitted multiple times the TK required to lift your team takes the most. Confirmed by Psylocke who used the few seconds Jinn allowed her to use her powerful TK.

Weather Wizard blizzard cannot stop teleportation or intangibility.

Keep in Mind, my plan is not happening slowly one at a time, it's happening fast and all of these things are going on simultaneously.

Just to give you an idea how fast the speed of thought is:

So, again this confirms the fact that the massive majority of what Psylocke will be doing will be happening in a few milliseconds compared to the seconds that your plan will be going off.

This isn’t a feat form Psylocke. Also given that Law and Psylocke are on different sides of the superhuman spectrum it’s irrelevant to measure any time frame without feats.

If you want to put speed in perspective, Meteors move faster than mach 25. Law cut one and redirect a few consistently. So Law’s measurable speed is mach 25 with low estimation. Unless Psylocke has speedster level reaction feats that aren't from an inconsistent Quicksilver she’s out classed.

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#22 Posted by Jestersmiles (9826 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero: I give my vote tomorrow night, been up all night trying the DL arkham knight.....ugh.

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#23 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8908 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm giving it to Team Law.

They countered the illusions pretty well, Laws sense being able to see what's real and what's not, same thing for hood.

Killing WW then Psy was pretty solid, due to Psylockes low combat speed (plus I dont think she'll take well to her teammate being murdered right next to her.)

Denying brain Pop was solid, Law would already be there and Hood is intangible.

Multiple Man was nowhere to be seen.

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#25 Posted by Fu-Dog007 (958 posts) - - Show Bio

Hrm, this battle was pretty good, well fought.

Though, in the end, I'd have to give the win to @mr_ingenuity

He was able to show that his team able to attack faster than luke's, his team countered the illusions well, and that The Hood was incapable of being injured by the other team.

Though, Multiple Man was surprisingly absent... ;)

Regardless, well fought on both sides! But I feel the win goes to @mr_ingenuity!

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#26 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: Gets my vote. Speed is key, and he proved Law can kill the Psylocke before she can kill them.

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#27 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9226 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll go with @mr_ingenuity as he did a good job showing why Law and his speed would prove too much for the opposing team.

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#30 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by Wyldsong (9758 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero: Bump me tomorrow brother man, I can find a few minutes to drop some words=)

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#32 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Posted by Sovereign91001 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll get to this later today.

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#35 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by Jacthripper (14983 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll give this a good read, then vote.

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#38 Posted by Sovereign91001 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero first off you did a great job, I know that this is your first rodeo with these characters, add to that, you were handicapped (the helmets) and you had an uphill battle to begin with. In the event you use Betsy again here are some things that may serve you well in the future; in regards to phasing Molecular level Telekinesis can unphase people. The scan brought up about Betsy being unable to shut down Logan was prior to her power ups and back when her powers effectiveness was divided. Consistently she has bullet reaction feats (and a few higher end ones) however You can use TK to amplify her speed and strength.

@mr_ingenuity

You took advantage of your strengths and had a solid argument; nothing I can really add that hasn't been said already, you also did a commendable job. BTW your math was a little off; for your meteor feat I got a shade under Mach 33 (Mach 32.84) on the low end. At the end of the day I'm giving you my vote.

Sorry if this isn't super coherent guys, I'm about five minutes from crashing into my touchscreen.

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#39 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14705 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001:

BTW your math was a little off; for your meteor feat I got a shade under Mach 33 (Mach 32.84) on the low end.

I was fully aware of that but went for the speed of an object moving within earth's atmosphere, slower than an object entering form outside it.

"Meteors move faster than mach 25"

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#41 Posted by Wyldsong (9758 posts) - - Show Bio

My absolute honest opinion...I feel like I am reading a truly unfinished CaV. I know this is a tourney, so only so much time can be allowed, but I feel like there were points and questions I had that went unanswered. Anyhow, seeing as I don't have a whole lot of time for a detailed breakdown, let me give some notes.

@mr_ingenuity: My absolute biggest complaint on your side of the fence is checking your sources and the time frame of the scans you are using and their relevance against the version of the character in question. One of my major pet peeves is when a scan is used out of context in relation to what is being discussed. @sovereign91001 already pointed this out, but for me, it really detracted from what was a pretty solid debate on your part. It is one thing to make some assumptions or statements and be proven wrong, but it is another entirely to bring up scans that have no relevance to the current state of the character as they are being used. Had he been using Psylocke from that era, that would have been beyond relevant, but he wasn't. So it kind of left a sour note on an otherwise good debate. Double, triple, and even quadruple check your scans if you are going to pull one for a character your opponent is using to use against them. Bear in mind, I am not saying you did it on purpose, I just urge for careful checking of the feats in question.

@lukehero: I felt like you had an uphill battle, but you worked well with what you had. It was in your camp that I had some questions on, and I don't expect you to answer them here, just take the following as food for thought. There are things I wanted to see brought up for your characters, so I am wondering if it was a matter of that you ran out of time, or if it was a lack of knowledge on the characters. At this point in time, you are a veteran debater on these boards, and I know full well that you can bring it in a debate. Your opening plan was solid, though I think there are points you could have hit a little harder in regards to Betsy (powers, reaction time, etc) and Weather Wizard (namely reaction timing). Had you one more post, maybe some of this stuff would have come up, but that is hard to say. In a normal CaV, where you have all the time in the world, taking your time is fine. In a tourney, with a limited amount of time, you need to lay all of your cards on the table at once, and hit it hard and fast from the word go.

In the end, I am probably going against the grain, but we all see different things in a debate. I have to give my vote to luke, as even with the unanswered questions, I felt he had a solid plan, and the misrepresented feat by Mr_ingen kind of left a glaring sour note for my tastes (not saying it was intentional mind you). I just wish there could been more to this CaV for me to judge fully and properly, but it is what it is. You both did well, and bear in mind, I give this vote by the barest of inches between the two of you.

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#42 Edited by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: Thank you for voting and in depth analysis.

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#43 Edited by Sovereign91001 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero said:

@sovereign91001: Thanks for voting.

You know after sleeping on it (literally) I came back to do something I've never done before. Reading @wyldsong's reasoning just solidified the choice. I'm reversing my vote and giving it to you.

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#44 Edited by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by ComicStooge (22063 posts) - - Show Bio

I might go @lukehero here. His mix of characters was brilliant and his debating was on point.

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#46 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by Claymore1998 (16541 posts) - - Show Bio

Very nice debate sadly it got a bit heated in the middle for a while. But I suppose a bit of that makes the debate even more intriguing.

I am voting for Mr. Ingenuity but both of you did an amazing job.