Punisher (no Franken Castle) is equipped with his Shield, 2 hand guns 5 clips carbonadium bullets, knife, 1 machine gun 100 normal bullets, 5 frag grenades, 3 flash bangs, muramasa blade.
Daken with muramasa claws and pheromones.
On a rainy rooftop..to the death. Both are at their peak they start 5 feets in front of each other.
They both know each other very well.
who wins? how and why? explain
Punisher vs Daken rematch (OP)
"Daken even without the pheromones. "
I'm not so sure about that, based on the environment. There's no cover and they have a clear view of each other. To make matters worse, the OP gave Frank some massive equipment.
Based on the OP, if Daken goes right for the kill, he can win. If he takes his time, I think a heavily injured Frank would win via the M-Blade.
" @erik said:I disagree based heavily on the last time they fought on a rainy rooftop."Daken even without the pheromones. "I'm not so sure about that, based on the environment. There's no cover and they have a clear view of each other. To make matters worse, the OP gave Frank some massive equipment. Based on the OP, if Daken goes right for the kill, he can win. If he takes his time, I think a heavily injured Frank would win via the M-Blade. "
I never saw the entire fight on the rooftop (except the last few gory scenes)....but how is the topic set up differently? Seems like Frank gets slaughtered all over again... : (
Well Frank's equipment is more Daken prepared, and Frank was surprised by Daken' attack during the initial encounter. Also, Frank did have the upperhand at the beginnig of the fight even when he had a broken leg and was stabbed by Daken in the shoulder. Additonally, Frank did stab Daken in the kneck with a knife and was about to tear his head off until Daken slashed him in the eye then slit his thoat then cut himto pieces.
Maybe Frank could squeeze a win or two out...
" @k4tzm4n said:" @erik said:I disagree based heavily on the last time they fought on a rainy rooftop. ""Daken even without the pheromones. "I'm not so sure about that, based on the environment. There's no cover and they have a clear view of each other. To make matters worse, the OP gave Frank some massive equipment. Based on the OP, if Daken goes right for the kill, he can win. If he takes his time, I think a heavily injured Frank would win via the M-Blade. "
If anything, that example hurts your opinion here. Frank landed plenty of attacks, and here, he's equipped with far more than a combat knife. (M-Blade = house of pain)
It looks like Morph and I are in agreement. Huzzahs are in order.
....
Anyone?
If anything, that example hurts your opinion here. Frank landed plenty of attacks, and here, he's equipped with far more than a combat knife. (M-Blade = house of pain) It looks like Morph and I are in agreement. Huzzahs are in order. .... Anyone? "I do not see how it hurts my argument here at all. Landing some attacks with familiar weapons is hardly what can be said about a fight with a weapon he has never shown to be skilled in (to my knowledge). You simply cannot handle a knife the same way you do a sword. If anything, I think the sword would hinder his chances.
" @k4tzm4n said:If anything, that example hurts your opinion here. Frank landed plenty of attacks, and here, he's equipped with far more than a combat knife. (M-Blade = house of pain) It looks like Morph and I are in agreement. Huzzahs are in order. .... Anyone? "I do not see how it hurts my argument here at all. Landing some attacks with familiar weapons is hardly what can be said about a fight with a weapon he has never shown to be skilled in (to my knowledge). You simply cannot handle a knife the same way you do a sword. If anything, I think the sword would hinder his chances. "
I'm not at home, so I can't check through my older stuff to see if I can confirm him ever using a blade with skill. However, I do recall Frank using a large blade in Suicide Kings (a machette or sword) to chop off Wade's arms. TBH, I think it's fair to assume Frank has basic knowledge with a sword due to his extensive training and being a "weapons expert".
I'm not at home, so I can't check through my older stuff to see if I can confirm him ever using a blade with skill. However, I do recall Frank using a large blade in Suicide Kings (a machette or sword) to chop off Wade's arms. TBH, I think it's fair to assume Frank has basic knowledge with a sword due to his extensive training and being a "weapons expert". "Oh I have no doubt he has at least a rudimentary knowledge of any conventional weapon. But having basic knowledge on a weapon and how to use it will be worthless against one who is an expert in the use of such weaponry. It is very likely that Daken will just end up taking away the sword and using it himself.
Furthermore, the carbonadium bullets will only be effective if placed in an instant death area such as in the head or base of the spine (which only will serve any purpose if it successfully severs the spinal cord).
Daken has the ability to be where his opponents are not looking so I imagine that the gun will be largely useless until Daken is already on top of Punisher just like in the scans above. Punisher is also unaware of this ability so his advantage of reach with the sword is gone as well. Punisher will fire a gun at Daken, who will for all intents and purposes port behind Punisher and cut off the hand holding the sword (which is easily recognizable) and continue to mortally would Frank in a series of butchering blow after blow until Frank is all done.
" @erik:Daken has taken a carbonadium bullet to the head before (Winter Soldier snipped him). According to Logan, it was the only spot they were sure his healing factor would not immediately kick in again. "I am almost positive I covered that much in my post. Were you just trying to reinforce my point?
" @Morpheus_ said:Indeed." @erik:Daken has taken a carbonadium bullet to the head before (Winter Soldier snipped him). According to Logan, it was the only spot they were sure his healing factor would not immediately kick in again. "I am almost positive I covered that much in my post. Were you just trying to reinforce my point? "
" @erik said:Ah. Well thank you then for providing an in-issue reference." @Morpheus_ said:Indeed. "" @erik:Daken has taken a carbonadium bullet to the head before (Winter Soldier snipped him). According to Logan, it was the only spot they were sure his healing factor would not immediately kick in again. "I am almost positive I covered that much in my post. Were you just trying to reinforce my point? "
Good. *puts away gun*Oh I have no doubt he has at least a rudimentary knowledge of any conventional weapon.
Unlikely, especially since he:But having basic knowledge on a weapon and how to use it will be worthless against one who is an expert in the use of such weaponry. It is very likely that Daken will just end up taking away the sword and using it himself.
A) Doesn't require it.
B) Has 6 bladed weapons of his own. Seven, if you want to get technical. (I think Morph would agree Daken would much rather use his seventh sword in this match)
Him tagging Daken is merely up for speculation. Punisher easily has the accuracy to do so. The question relies on how Daken will act in combat. If he doesn't hold back, there's no doubt he could end this match in mere seconds. If he acts in character, his arrogance as he toys with Frank could be his demise.Furthermore, the carbonadium bullets will only be effective if placed in an instant death area such as in the head or base of the spine (which only will serve any purpose if it successfully severs the spinal cord).
He didn't use that ability VS Frank.Daken has the ability to be where his opponents are not looking so I imagine that the gun will be largely useless until Daken is already on top of Punisher just like in the scans above.
Because he didn't use it, LOL.Punisher is also unaware of this ability so his advantage of reach with the sword is gone as well.
Again, this depends on how he'll act. He's just as likely to dodge as he rushes.Punisher will fire a gun at Daken, who will for all intents and purposes port behind Punisher
He's shooting AND holding a sword? Nonsense! He'd likely have to equip the sword as he's getting his ass handed to him.and cut off the hand holding the sword (which is easily recognizable)
Again, depends on how he's fighting. If he unleashes, he wins in a flawless victory. If he's a cocky SOB, he dishes out a lot of damage, but Frank could take advantage of this. Frank, however, would likely die of bloodloss shortly after in such a scenario, lol.and continue to mortally would Frank in a series of butchering blow after blow until Frank is all done.
Just like k4tzm4n said, since Frank's a weapon expert he must have had at least some trainnig with swords, sure not samurai level but still vey good. In Suicide kings he did chop off DP's arm and during the Franken Castle stories he is seen chopping down those anti-monster japanese samurai dudes easily with a sword.
yeah i know its non canon but its such a cool pic and ultimate punisher is almost identical to 616 punisher, and i'm sure 616 punisher has done that
Lol.Good. *puts away gun*
He does not need the sword but that does not mean he wants Frank to have it.Unlikely, especially since he:
A) Doesn't require it.
B) Has 6 bladed weapons of his own. Seven, if you want to get technical. (I think Morph would agree Daken would much rather use his seventh sword in this match) "
He seemed to handle Frank just fine while acting in character already.Him tagging Daken is merely up for speculation. Punisher easily has the accuracy to do so. The question relies on how Daken will act in combat. If he doesn't hold back, there's no doubt he could end this match in mere seconds. If he acts in character, his arrogance as he toys with Frank could be his demise.
Because he did not need to.He didn't use that ability VS Frank.
Because he didn't use it, LOL.
Lol.He's shooting AND holding a sword? Nonsense! He'd likely have to equip the sword as he's getting his ass handed to him.
Again, depends on how he's fighting. If he unleashes, he wins in a flawless victory. If he's a cocky SOB, he dishes out a lot of damage, but Frank could take advantage of this. Frank, however, would likely die of bloodloss shortly after in such a scenario, lol. "
" @Anjales: Ah, I forgot about him rocking a sword as Frankencastle, thanks! And yeah, Morph is correctamundo. We really shouldn't use Ultimate examples....Unless you want to make Ult Frank VS Daken ;) "That would be an interesting possibility when, and if, we get to learn more about Ultimate Frank's suit.
@erik:
I'm too lazy to keep quoting. So, numbers comin' at ya!
1) Of course. If given the chance, I see no reason why Daken wouldn't disarm the weaponry from him. We're in agreement there. I just don't see Daken ever needing the sword or wanting to take it unless he REALLY wanted to humiliate him, lol.
2) I think Morpheus_ would agree that his display against Castle wasn't exactly in character and disregarded many of his abilities / attributes.
" @k4tzm4n said:" @Anjales: Ah, I forgot about him rocking a sword as Frankencastle, thanks! And yeah, Morph is correctamundo. We really shouldn't use Ultimate examples....Unless you want to make Ult Frank VS Daken ;) "That would be an interesting possibility when, and if, we get to learn more about Ultimate Frank's suit. "
Perhaps Ultimate Ronin would make for an interesting match.
" @Morpheus_ said:He could be a very good match if only he had more showings. It's a shame." @k4tzm4n said:Perhaps Ultimate Ronin would make for an interesting match. "" @Anjales: Ah, I forgot about him rocking a sword as Frankencastle, thanks! And yeah, Morph is correctamundo. We really shouldn't use Ultimate examples....Unless you want to make Ult Frank VS Daken ;) "That would be an interesting possibility when, and if, we get to learn more about Ultimate Frank's suit. "
- Well I imagine Daken is a little upset that daddy took away his muramasa toys so I think he would be happy to take this new one away from Frank.
- I think that his abilities were disregarded because he did not need them to win. I have not seen him pour tricks out of his bag needlessly yet so to me, it still seems in character. But Morpheus does know the character more than I.
" A slight disadvantage is that Daken now has only 4 claws. He can fight perfectly well without the ones he lost, but it will take some time to get used to it. "His claws do not grow back after being removed like Wolverine's?
@k4tzm4n said:
" @erik:I actually believe you are right about that lol.
1) LOL.
2) Morpheus_ knows the character more than Way, the man who created Daken. "
" 2) Morpheus_ knows the character more than Way, the man who created Daken.
"
Exactly how I feel about Cardiac & Ord.
Indeed. But at least Cardiac has had more issues to illustrate his abilities. Ronin only had one fight (I view his pre-augmentation fights as Moon Knight separately).
" @Morpheus_ said:They should, but it is apparent that it is not what the writer desires." A slight disadvantage is that Daken now has only 4 claws. He can fight perfectly well without the ones he lost, but it will take some time to get used to it. "His claws do not grow back after being removed like Wolverine's? "
" @Morpheus_ said:Since Wolverine Origins # 48. He has appeared in two issues in his own series afterwards, without showing he can still use them.They should, but it is apparent that it is not what the writer desires. "Really? That is bizarre. How many issues have gone by without the missing claws? "
" @k4tzm4n said:" 2) Morpheus_ knows the character more than Way, the man who created Daken.
"
Exactly how I feel about Cardiac & Ord.
Indeed. But at least Cardiac has had more issues to illustrate his abilities. Ronin only had one fight (I view his pre-augmentation fights as Moon Knight separately). "
Why is that? He was the exact same individual, just with inferior physical stats and a different weapon set. I'd say Ultimate MK had an impressive showing against Spider-Man and Frank. I agree, though. He really does need more before giving an accurate opinion. Same with Ultimate Deadpool.
@erik:
Enough to show Way has no real understanding of the character yet?
Dark Wolverine 88 just came out yesterday...what a timely thread.
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