PunisherPunisher and Bullseye are serving sentences in Alcatraz when a break-out is started by some mobstersBullseye trying to spring their boss who is also located in Alcatraz. In the ensuing confusion Punisher breaks into the armory and arms himself with a machone gun, two pistols, and three grenades. Coming out of the armory Castle eventually, after killing criminals left and right on his way out he finds Bullseye killing everyone left and right with pieces of food and silverware (he's stored several knives up his sleeves for later use) from the cafeteria and rather enjoying himself. They stare each other down as anyone with sense quickly vacates the cafeteria before they begin their fight.
I was just thinkin about this battle after reading some early Daredevils. Though Bullseye is the better skilled fighter, it has taken more than that to take down Castle. He's given DD a better fight than Bullseye has.
Bullseye. Just cause Marvel dictates who wins in their (daredevil/bullseye) predetermined battles doesn't mean a thing. Bullseye outclasses Castle in just about every catagory.
Sorry the scenario wasn't up yet. Standing across from one another like they are, and Punisher having guns, I'd say his bullets reach Bullseye long before Bullseye's knife's reach Frank's forehead.
Punisher wouldn't stare down Bullseye, he'd just shoot him immediately, and move on. Frank is not known for his moments of weakness and hesitation, you know.
"Punisher wouldn't stare down Bullseye, he'd just shoot him immediately, and move on. Frank is not known for his moments of weakness and hesitation, you know."
"Punisher wouldn't stare down Bullseye, he'd just shoot him immediately, and move on. Frank is not known for his moments of weakness and hesitation, you know."
Does it really matter?"
considering that if he gives bullseye a few extra seconds he could be dead...yeah
"Punisher I believe is too smart to let Bullseye have a chance. He shoots him in the head before Bullseye can do anything about it...."
lol Punisher smart? no way. He the type to go shoot first, ask questions later x10. Bullseye is way smarter but Bullseye would win. All he needs is one single shot. Thats all he needs and he wins. He does have unrivaled accuracy and Punisher is just human. Bullseye wins.
"I really don't see how this scenario puts anyone at a handicap, it's not like one is getting surprised by the other or something."
LMAO. One guy is standing with a gun, while the other is standing with a knife. Even if Bullseye gets off first Punisher's quick enough to squeeze the trigger and blow Bullseye away.
"I really don't see how this scenario puts anyone at a handicap, it's not like one is getting surprised by the other or something."
LMAO. One guy is standing with a gun, while the other is standing with a knife. Even if Bullseye gets off first Punisher's quick enough to squeeze the trigger and blow Bullseye away."
Oh come on, you really thing this is going to be a spanish stand off? hell no, there is an environment to hide behind. Bullseye wins this.
"I really don't see how this scenario puts anyone at a handicap, it's not like one is getting surprised by the other or something."
LMAO. One guy is standing with a gun, while the other is standing with a knife. Even if Bullseye gets off first Punisher's quick enough to squeeze the trigger and blow Bullseye away."
Oh come on, you really thing this is going to be a spanish stand off? hell no, there is an environment to hide behind. Bullseye wins this. "
Punisher is loaded with guns, obviously he would give DD a hard time while Bullseye is with mundane weapons. He could easily bounce a single toothpick around almost anywhere to kill Punisher.
It says right in the set up they are in a stand off.....so it doesnt matter if Bulls eye is better, which he is ....he still gets a bullet in the face.
Also Punisher is the shoot first type, but that doesnt mean by any stretch that he is not intelligent...do you know anyhting about him?
"It says right in the set up they are in a stand off.....so it doesnt matter if Bulls eye is better, which he is ....he still gets a bullet in the face.
Also Punisher is the shoot first type, but that doesnt mean by any stretch that he is not intelligent...do you know anyhting about him?"
He killed a guy in the avengers head quarters fully knowing that he's going to get his ass kicked by someone. Voila! Cap, beat him to a bloody pulp, almost to the death and Punisher respected him too much to even fight back. So yea, i consider him an idiot for blowing up someone's head in a government head quarters without any authorizations when they could have easily put him in jail or worse.
"lol Punisher smart? no way. He the type to go shoot first, ask questions later x10. Bullseye is way smarter but Bullseye would win. All he needs is one single shot. Thats all he needs and he wins. He does have unrivaled accuracy and Punisher is just human. Bullseye wins. "
"Punisher is loaded with guns, obviously he would give DD a hard time while Bullseye is with mundane weapons. He could easily bounce a single toothpick around almost anywhere to kill Punisher. "
And since when does a toothpick travel at the speed of a bullet? How is bouncing a toothpick off from something (thus further slowing its speed) help? Did u even read the first post yet? Where does it say Bullseye has a toothpick? He has some food, and some knives (up his sleeve). Hmmmmm, knives up the sleeve and some mac'n cheese, or a machine gun. I'll go machine gun.
"lol Punisher smart? no way. He the type to go shoot first, ask questions later x10. Bullseye is way smarter but Bullseye would win. All he needs is one single shot. Thats all he needs and he wins. He does have unrivaled accuracy and Punisher is just human. Bullseye wins. "
Punisher is very smart. He is a tactical genius.
If he shoots first, that means Bullseye gets shot
Bullseye is also "just human"
"
And how smart does one have to be to know the geometrics to bounce off a toothpick from certain areas with the right amount of velocity, air pressure and the thickness of the windows to kill a woman? With a Toothpick from another building?
"Someone tell me where this toothpick came from lmao"
I'm just making a point. If he can do that with a simple toothpick, what do you think he could do with a knife? or a firearm? "
No one is arguing what Bullseye can do. But the way the fight has been set up he is at a distinct disadvantage.
Gambler said:
"oldmagic said:
"Punisher is loaded with guns, obviously he would give DD a hard time while Bullseye is with mundane weapons. He could easily bounce a single toothpick around almost anywhere to kill Punisher. "
And since when does a toothpick travel at the speed of a bullet? How is bouncing a toothpick off from something (thus further slowing its speed) help? Did u even read the first post yet? Where does it say Bullseye has a toothpick? He has some food, and some knives (up his sleeve). Hmmmmm, knives up the sleeve and some mac'n cheese, or a machine gun. I'll go machine gun."
"And how smart does one have to be to know the geometrics to bounce off a toothpick from certain areas with the right amount of velocity, air pressure and the thickness of the windows to kill a woman? With a Toothpick from another building"
Pretty sure Bullseye doesn't do advanced trigonometry in his head. His abilities are intuitive. Conversely, how stupid do you have to be to keep messing with Daredevil after he savagely beats and proves his undeniable superiority over you multiple times?
"Someone tell me where this toothpick came from lmao"
I'm just making a point. If he can do that with a simple toothpick, what do you think he could do with a knife? or a firearm? "
No one is arguing what Bullseye can do. But the way the fight has been set up he is at a distinct disadvantage.
Gambler said:
"oldmagic said:
"Punisher is loaded with guns, obviously he would give DD a hard time while Bullseye is with mundane weapons. He could easily bounce a single toothpick around almost anywhere to kill Punisher. "
And since when does a toothpick travel at the speed of a bullet? How is bouncing a toothpick off from something (thus further slowing its speed) help? Did u even read the first post yet? Where does it say Bullseye has a toothpick? He has some food, and some knives (up his sleeve). Hmmmmm, knives up the sleeve and some mac'n cheese, or a machine gun. I'll go machine gun."
"
I am trying to prove that with what he can do with a simple harmless object of everyday, just imagine what he can do with heavy arms? Give him a gun then? He could easily take out Punisher with just a single shot.
LMAO. One guy is standing with a gun, while the other is standing with a knife. Even if Bullseye gets off first Punisher's quick enough to squeeze the trigger and blow Bullseye away."
I don't understand, Bullseye normally has mundane, everyday items which he utilizes as weapons whereas Punisher usually has guns. Why is this scenario any more handicapped than a random encounter?
"I am trying to prove that with what he can do with a simple harmless object of everyday, just imagine what he can do with heavy arms? Give him a gun then? He could easily take out Punisher with just a single shot.
Then make it fare for the battle.
"
LMAO your preaching to the wrong guy dawg. I was the one advocating Bullseye's victory before the scenario was set in place. Its not my thread and not my rules. I'm sure there's a standard Bullseye vs Punisher thread somewhere if u feel this one is unfair.
LMAO. One guy is standing with a gun, while the other is standing with a knife. Even if Bullseye gets off first Punisher's quick enough to squeeze the trigger and blow Bullseye away."
I don't understand, Bullseye normally has mundane, everyday items which he utilizes as weapons whereas Punisher usually has guns. Why is this scenario any more handicapped than a random encounter?"
Cause their standing in front of one another, almost like an old west shootout. Punisher has a machine gun with his target standing directly in front of him. He could be missing an eye and still hit his target. Things that Bullseye utilizes like stealth, and his hand to hand combate are kinda moot points in this case. Even if he managed to throw his knife first, it still a slim chance he kills Frank before he starts spraying. The way its set up the best Bullseye can hope for is killing Frank as he himself is killed. (my opinion).
"Bullseye is also excellent at dodging, catching and redirecting ranged attacks of others.
Bullseye wins this."
That's an excellent point. Doubt he's gonna dodge machine gun fire at close range, and he sure isn't going to catch the bullets (he's not Taskmaster). But you may be right about the redirection. Still though, he's only human and I've never seen him redirect automatic machine gun fire.
I always assumed that characters started random encounters standing in front of each other. If that's the only difference you perceive between this scenario and a random encounter then I still don't understand. How would a random encounter in a city (I think we assume a city environment in random encounters, correct me if I'm wrong.) play any different?
"I always assumed that characters started random encounters standing in front of each other. If that's the only difference you perceive between this scenario and a random encounter then I still don't understand. How would a random encounter in a city (I think we assume a city environment in random encounters, correct me if I'm wrong.) play any different?"
Well I think I explained it about as well as I'm able to. Sorry
You're explaining to me how Punisher would win in this scenario, I don't care about that. What I don't understand is how my scenario handicaps Bullseye anymore than a random encounter would.
Because Bullseye is standing still, staring at Punisher, in an enclosed space. His options are very limited. Giving a scenario by definition will make things different than a random encounter. In a random encounter in a city, for example, he would have more opportunities to take cover or obtain a hostage. Punisher doesn't care about anyone in Alcatraz, and can probably shoot through anything Bullseye might be able to dive behind. Hope that helps to clarify things. If not, I'll try again.
"Because Bullseye is standing still, staring at Punisher, in an enclosed space. His options are very limited. Giving a scenario by definition will make things different than a random encounter. In a random encounter in a city, for example, he would have more opportunities to take cover or obtain a hostage. Punisher doesn't care about anyone in Alcatraz, and can probably shoot through anything Bullseye might be able to dive behind. Hope that helps to clarify things. If not, I'll try again."
That's what I'm thinking as well. In a random encounter Bullseye isn't standing directly in front of a ready machine gun with nothing to hide behind and no momentum. In a random encounter maybe Bullseye spots Punisher first, allowing him to utilize his mobility to create some angles. Say they both just happen to notice eachother in a mall, even if the Punisher just started mowing people down it would still act somewhat like a shield and give Bulleye a chance to ricochet an object for the kill.
I don't think a cafeteria is anymore enclosed than a city street and there are tables, walls, and counters to hide behind... and anyone with enough sense not to have escaped some of whom might be guards trying to contain the violence. How would Bullseye have anymore opportunity in a city than in a cafeteria? In both instances both fighters start off from a stand-still with cover all around. Sorry, I would appreciated if you, indeed, tried again.
"I don't think a cafeteria is anymore enclosed than a city street and there are tables, walls, and counters to hide behind... and anyone with enough sense not to have escaped some of whom might be guards trying to contain the violence. How would Bullseye have anymore opportunity in a city than in a cafeteria? In both instances both fighters start off from a stand-still with cover all around. Sorry, I would appreciated if you, indeed, tried again."
A prison cafeteria. Your not flipping a prison table over. There cemented to the floor. There's no walls to hide behind. And who said anything about a city? And why are they always starting off in front of one another? Its like 1,2,3 GO!! I don't see battles that way (unless stated before hand). I think that's silly to be honest. But even if it was in the city, there are cars, people, trees, etc etc to hide behind (depending how far away they are from each other) I just dont see it being much of a fight if Bullseye and Punsiher are both standing in front of eachother, one with a machine gun and the other with food and knives up his sleeve. Sorry if you feel like its a personal attack on the scenerio u set up.
I think it was in Buckshot's rules thread where it said that if a scenario is not given, the combatants randomly meet each other in most often a city and decide to fight. I'm comparing my scenario against that because a random encounter is widely accepted to be fair. Apparently, you and I share a different definition of a random scenario. It's okay though, I really don't want to spend anymore time arguing that my scenario is fair.
Bullseye is simply handicapped by the fact that he can only throw 2 knives at a time at the most.....punisher pulls the trigger and within the time it takes Bullseye to grab a knife or move his arm to throw it he has 9 bullets in his gut and he's looking like 50 Cent
But honestly I think its a decent set up anyways man. I mean we arent saying its a BAD setup. If it werent set up the way it is it may just be just as big of a rout the other way around.
I never think of a random encounter starting with both opponents facing each other with relatively little room between them. An encounter means they were doing something already, and came across one another. If Bullseye sees Punisher on the street, he can try to avoid him. If Punisher catches Bullseye out of the corner of his eye, he can turn and shoot, but that gives Bullseye time to doge and retaliate. In fact, there's no telling if Punisher already has a weapon to hand. That would give Bullseye another advantage over the scenario you gave. Also, a prison cafeteria, as Gambler mentioned, is not an environment that lends itself to hiding or concealing anything. The difficulty in explaining this is a good demonstration of why scenarios are preferable (to me) to random encounters.
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