Round 1: Not sure. 90s Jean has that high end feat with Binary, while Psylocke had that instance where her TK was supposedly > Rachel's. Barring these outliers, I'd say they're even. They both sturggled to stop a mini plane, Jean seems to be struggling a lot more but her plane is also bigger
Round 2: Might lean towards Jean because she was able to resist Onslaught's mental probes
I'd say that Psylocke wins in telepathy. Not sure about telekinesis because Jean at this point has shown great defenses (tanking Island busters, containing mountain busting energy, restraining class 100 beings), and has blasted someone over 300 miles away from one country to another.
Round 1: Not sure. 90s Jean has that high end feat with Binary, while Psylocke had that instance where her TK was supposedly > Rachel's. Barring these outliers, I'd say they're even. They both sturggled to stop a mini plane, Jean seems to be struggling a lot more but her plane is also bigger
Round 2: Might lean towards Jean because she was able to resist Onslaught's mental probes
A few things to note about Psylocke's feat:
She was seriously injured and close to unconsciousness/death and was using her TP to numb her pain receptors
She had just fought off dozens of creatures and a building-sized rock monster with the other X-Women
And she had been trapped underground with the others for several issues
Psylocke also did this:
Gallery
Lately, she has been pretty on par with current Jean Grey too:
Gallery
Many of the feats involved Jean & Psylocke working together, or Jean asking Psylocke for help, involving powerful psychics like Legion and Life Seed X-Man
Psylocke also has a massive advantage in psychic weapons, and a possible OHKO with her psychic knife.
@geekryan: Yeah she's definitely on an entirely different level than Jean when it comes to TK weapons, but I don't see how that would be of much use. I LOVE her TK constructs they're probably the most fun to see in combat, but IMO they're not that optimal vs enemies with regular durability. Blasting people with TK is much more effective than having to charge in and fight hand to hand. TK constructs are probably better off in fights vs durable people or machines etc where simply blasting them might not be as effective. Jean is not gonna let Betsy get close to her
OP says before she gets her original body so her showings in Uncanny don't count. And while I believe her TP is at her best atm, or up there as one of her best eras in TP, I'm pretty certain she's not in current Jean's league telepathically. Although I really love that they have the 2 of them sharing feats and working together, I was so worried about Betsy getting sidelined as a psychic in a team with Jean, I'm glad the writers didn't do that.
For the plane thing, I'd forgotten the context but it evens out since the plane she stopped is kinda tiny compared to Jean.
I don't find the feat in XX-Men to be a good one, and was a low-end feat for her and Rachel. Rachel has kept Providence afloat before, stopping a plane, especially with Betsy there, should have been child's play for them. They barely did anything to the plane, it was Storm who ended up carrying it with her wind
edit: I don't really have any issues with people favoring Betsy in TK though, her showing in Astonishing #1 was really good
It's harder for me to gauge Betsy's TK though because she rarely has any TP battles aside from those on the Astral plane that involve her basically just stabbing with her psi-knife. Like I don't recall any feats of her blocking/resisting telepathy. Would you know if these exist? Would love to see
Round 1: Not sure. 90s Jean has that high end feat with Binary, while Psylocke had that instance where her TK was supposedly > Rachel's. Barring these outliers, I'd say they're even. They both sturggled to stop a mini plane, Jean seems to be struggling a lot more but her plane is also bigger
Round 2: Might lean towards Jean because she was able to resist Onslaught's mental probes
A few things to note about Psylocke's feat:
She was seriously injured and close to unconsciousness/death and was using her TP to numb her pain receptors
She had just fought off dozens of creatures and a building-sized rock monster with the other X-Women
And she had been trapped underground with the others for several issues
Psylocke also did this:
Gallery
Lately, she has been pretty on par with current Jean Grey too:
Gallery
Many of the feats involved Jean & Psylocke working together, or Jean asking Psylocke for help, involving powerful psychics like Legion and Life Seed X-Man
Psylocke also has a massive advantage in psychic weapons, and a possible OHKO with her psychic knife.
@koays: Operation Zero Tolerance for me. After that she stooped holding back her powers.
Her best to feats before that are one shotting 90s Psylocke, trapping gamemaster in her psychic contructs, kicking sinister out of her mind. Psylocke can easily take her down, I don't see 90s Jean being a problem for Betsy with telepathy.
90s Jean though, was where she had some of her best TK feats. The binary fight, flying fast in space to catch up with pieces of Avalon moving at reentry speed, holding together Avalon (a billion ton feat), restraining Really powerful people and containing cyclops blasts.
With Psylockes tendency to use weapons in close combat, I think Jean has the edge because she prefers long range
Jeans shield feats are a higher scale then Psylocke has damage out put.
Jean's also more likely to try Telepathy in an encounter then to slug it out with TK. Odds are she tries to defend against Psylocke they draw eachother and then Jean goes for a psychic attack without being really up to hanging with Psylockes more well rounded levels.
I’m going with Jean grey both rounds. They’re basically even in tk since they’re both using Jeans old tk, but Jeans the more skillful one. I still don’t consider Psylocke that skilled in tp so I’d go with Jean for round 2 too.
@geekryan: Maybe in power but definitely not in skill. Besides the altering mystiques personality, there’s really no indication that her skills much better than it was in the 90s.
@elpendejo: I was showing very general feats, not specific to skill. Psylocke can do what most other telepaths can, i.e invisiblity, illusions, affecting the senses, tracking, etc
5) Xavier tasks Psylocke to kill him if he gets out of control
6) Resists Shadow King
7-8) Knows things with TP before Rachel does
9) Rachel asks Psylocke to use her TP to figure out what happened
In Conclusion
I have more feats I can post, but this is just a basic idea.
I agree that Rachel is above Psylocke, but not by much.
Recently, the gap between Psylocke and Jean has gotten smaller.
But Psylocke is most definitely superior to 90's Jean Grey.
I'm aware of all these feats but I did forget that she resisted Farouk in Astonishing. Thanks for posting that, now I'm inclined to give Betsy the TP win since she's shown the ability to resist high-tier telepathic assault.
Although I would like to point out a few things that I believe you are taking out of context and overestimating the feats
1. The phoenix decided to leave AoA Jean and move to Angel because he was more in line with what the Phoenix wanted. Angel did not BEAT AoA Jean Phoenix Jean in an actual fight. But Betsy KOing him is amazing regardless
2. Jean had no telepathy in Inferno so Betsy was basically TPing a Jean without telepathy
3. She destroyed the astral plane because Farouk had set up an entire network that was interconnected. She can't repeat that feat anytime. It's a chain reaction that caused the Astral Plane to be destroyed.
4. Betsy was literally powerless against Nova the entire arc. She simply got a sneak attack with her psi-knife which just bonded Nova to the body she was inhabiting.
So Betsy wins TP, Jean wins TK, but in a closer match so overall Betsy would be better.
I'm aware of all these feats but I did forget that she resisted Farouk in Astonishing. Thanks for posting that, now I'm inclined to give Betsy the TP win since she's shown the ability to resist high-tier telepathic assault.
She did it more than once too during Astonishing.
1. The phoenix decided to leave AoA Jean and move to Angel because he was more in line with what the Phoenix wanted. Angel did not BEAT AoA Jean Phoenix Jean in an actual fight. But Betsy KOing him is amazing regardless
Yes, but her attack still had no effect on Archangel and then his attack was working on her until the Phoenix decided to leave Jean. It also makes this MORE impressive since the Phoenix thought Archangel was a stronger host of psionic power than Jean.
2. Jean had no telepathy in Inferno so Betsy was basically TPing a Jean without telepathy
True, but it still shows she can disable Jean's TK.
3. She destroyed the astral plane because Farouk had set up an entire network that was interconnected. She can't repeat that feat anytime. It's a chain reaction that caused the Astral Plane to be destroyed.
Also true, but I didn't see Jean being able to replicate something like this in the same context.
4. Betsy was literally powerless against Nova the entire arc. She simply got a sneak attack with her psi-knife which just bonded Nova to the body she was inhabiting.
Nonetheless, she still beat Nova with a combination of trickery and telepathy.
So Betsy wins TP, Jean wins TK, but in a closer match so overall Betsy would be better.
No one here really presented any feats to demonstrate Jean's TP or TK from the 90s. Which is unfortunate.
1. No it moved to Warren specifically because Jean was not using it's power the way it wanted to, while Warren did, "Death and Rebirth", not because it thought he had greater psionic power. It did not want to hurt Warren because it wanted to be with Warren.
2. While there was no resistance, it is indeed a good showing of skill that even so early on she can block/turn off powers
3. We don't know that, because there wasn't an opportunity, but I'm not gonna argue against it, because Betsy's Psi-blade is of a unique nature which could have allowed her to do that, while Jean does not utilize her TP the same way, so she indeed may not have been able to do the same. My point is just that it isn't a case of 'Psylocke is powerful enough to destroy the astral plane anytime anywhere' or something along that line, there was a very specific circumstance that allowed her to do this, via chain reaction.
4. Betsy didn't really "beat" her though. After she got knifed her, Nova got bound to the body but was unharmed. She just seemed to be distressed because she was now human. She then threatened Betsy by holding the body hostage as Betsy's last chance to get her original body, so betsy just walked up to her and stabbed her. Betsy didn't win in actual TP combat
Gallery
5. Maybe @pyrofn or @koays can grace us with 90s Jean feats
I just wanna say, while I love her TK constructs and TP knife, I MISS HER TP BLASTS. I remember I was a kid when I first saw Betst TP blasting Creed on 2 occasions, and also Rogue. I remember she even took down a team of X-Men during their training session on Muir Island haha. I miss classic Betsy
@marvelfan1992: I'm still looking for a clarification from @onsipin on the range of time were giving Jean since it effects what were giving her for feats but...
Supporting a collapsing Avalon, lifting planes and building spires as well as shielding from Apocalypes, Storms full power attacks and Abomination. Plus restraining Juggs.....it puts her TK as consistently a tier over Psylocke. Though she lacks offensive tk.
Tp Psylocke scales higher then jean but Jean's got the feats to draw it out though.
@onsipin: good call, that was the last I've she wore her 90s costume. She switched to the Phoenix costume after that.
Round 1: while I think 90s Jean was a skilled Telepath (getting past mental blocks onslaught kept in juggernauts mind, blocking out onslaught, getting through shields Madelyne kept in cables mind), I believe that Psylocke is stronger enough to beat her.
Psylocke has two advantages, she is an expert in astral combat over 90s Jean (Psylocke has two recent feats of doing well against Shadow king in astral combat. In one of these he was amped), so if she can't get past Jeans mental shields, she can still take her down in astral combat (even though onslaught couldn't get through Jeans mental shields, he still stored her on the astral plane).
Then we have Psylockes psi sword and psi knife. These two have a scrambling effects on psionic energy and tend to short circuit it,even if the other telepath is stronger than Betsy, it's basically her Trump card.
In a normal fight, Jeans tk shields could keep her from getting stabbed, but without it here, Psylocke turns this into close quarters combat and stabs Jean in the head for the win.
Round 2: Telekinesis only.
I'd have to back Jean up here. She's shown better raw power and better defense feats. Psylocke has a bad habit of not using her tk shields, but Jean can be accused of the same, and since PIS is oof, I'm assuming they will both have shields up.
I think Jean can withstand whatever Psylocke throws at her, and has shown blasts strong enough to send someone flying over 300 miles in seconds. I'm backing her up here.
@psy-scarlet: Oh right of course, now I remember. Thanks! Wow I haven't read Inferno in like a decade, I should really go over it again, one of my favorite arcs. Classic Betsy was a much more "standard" telepath back in the day, in the sense that she would actually utilize her telepathy to the fullest (telepathic blasts, telepathic illusions and tricks, blocking powers, this thing with Sinister etc) She really got downscaled as a telepath once she got her Asian body, restricted mostly to stabbing people with her psychic knife and communicating telepathically. The change was definitely great for her character, but terrible for her as a telepath lol
@marvelfan1992: When the Kwannon thing happened her powers were split and weakened. She didn't regain her full power until after Kwannon died, but still stuck to psi knifing because she had become an action junky. IIRC 90s Jean can make psi knives as well and is still more prone to using distance telepathic attacks.
@lordofallhumans: yes exactly even after she got the half of her power back from Kwannon she still was made to just use her psychic knife. like I said, it's good for the story and the charatcer, it makes her unique and interesting, but she was downplayed as a telepath.
Where did Jean use a psychic knife? And is it the same type/does it have the same effect as Betsy's?
90's Jean feats that are comparable would probably be the Binary shielding feat, keeping the hunk of space station together during reentry during the fall of avalon, flying their ship to avalon for miles in space, holding together Avalon during Magneto's attack. Blocking The Strangers blast was not 90s Jean though
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