Pre-Retcon Beyonder Vs. Post-Retcon Molecule Man

the same Molecule Man that trapped the Omniverse in a box.

Beyonder stomps. The only chance MM had at beating him was when he was weakened after restarting the universe.

@stalin-is-steel: But I thought Pre-Retcon Beyonder was like High Multiversal+? Post Molecule Man was Omniversal.

What?

Why wouldn't Pre retcon beyonder be omniversal?

@kilgpmktra: When him and Pre-Retcon MM fought they nearly destroyed the Multiverse; they never destroyed the Omniverse. Post-Retcon MM did though.

The universe and power of the beyonder made Marvel look like a drop of water in a ocean. The cosmic entities including LT who embodies all of Marvel's multiverse, required Owen's help to do something to the Beyonder.

The term "omniverse" for Marvel's case, is used to describe everything within the setting. When writers use the term "multiverse" context is important. In marvel, they used the term "multiverse" to also describe everything. Pre Retcon Beyonder without a doubt, is omniversal

Only recently, have comicbook writers been abusing the made up term "omniverse" to make their setting sound more grand. It's no different than using the term "multiverse" to also describe everything within the setting

Mismatch.

Okay yeah, I actually forgot he did all of that. So... Post-Retcon MM destroying the Omniverse doesn't really matter then? I guess he would still Pre-Retcon Beyonder. I just thought they would be even since Post Retcon MM > Pre Retcon MM.

And you're pretty much saying Multiverse and Omniverse are the same exact thing.

You'll find that Pre-Retcon Beyonder is still the second most powerful abstract in the entirety of Marvel's history, no abstract in Marvel below TOAA has come close to Beyonder's power by status and feats. Even if Marvel's Multiverse got more complex, or that LT and Eternity got better feats then on, they didn't become that much stronger... really... maybe just 10%, that's about it.

What the Beyonders did? Beyonder could've done it all by himself in a fodder instant.

What the First Firmament did? Beyonder wouldn't need henchmen to do his work.

What Oblivion did? What did he do? His best feat honestly was stalemating Infinity and getting erased concepts into his realm. Even CK's feats are questionable if it can be scaled to Oblivion.

What HOTU Thanos did? Let's get real, it wasn't all of TOAA's power, Beyonder would have foddered all of the abstracts in an instant faster than the HOTU, even with a small portion of his own power.

What Molecule Man did? Beyonder was an infinite void ocean to a droplet of water that was the Marvel Omniverse.

I agree mostly with you except for the Thanos part. I always thought that HOTU Thanos was more powerful due to being directly powered up by the One-Above-All himself.

Also I'm not sure if you were joking or not...you put 'DC' instead of 'Marvel'...

It does matter. Post SW MM is very strong and he is omniversal. There are multiverses in marvel. Sometimes, marvel treats a multiverse as infinite universes.

But this is why context is important. For big events, writers use the term "the multiverse" to describe everything similar to what an "omniverse" represents.

For an example, beyonder and owen's clash was described as:

"Two mightiest beings in all of existence"

"Every being in every dimension feels the Multiversal tremors born of their fury"

they clearly were affecting all of Marvel but writers did not utilize the term "omniverse" back then but it makes no difference

@kilgpmktra said:

@nicholas_jones said:

@kilgpmktra said:

@nicholas_jones said:

@kilgpmktra: When him and Pre-Retcon MM fought they nearly destroyed the Multiverse; they never destroyed the Omniverse. Post-Retcon MM did though.

The Universe and Power of The Beyonder made Marvel look like a drop of water in a ocean. The Cosmic Entities including LT who embodies all of Marvel's Multiverse, required Owen's help to do something to The Beyonder.

The term "Omniverse" for Marvel's case, is used to describe everything within the setting. When writers use the term "Multiverse", context is important. In marvel, they used the term "Multiverse" to also describe everything. Pre-Retcon Beyonder without a doubt, is Omniversal.

Okay yeah, I actually forgot he did all of that. So... Post-Retcon MM destroying the Omniverse doesn't really matter then? I guess he would still Pre-Retcon Beyonder. I just thought they would be even since Post Retcon MM > Pre Retcon MM.

And you're pretty much saying Multiverse and Omniverse are the same exact thing.

It does matter and Post SW MM is very strong and he is omniversal. There are multiverses in marvel. Sometimes, marvel treats a multiverse as infinite universes.

But this is why context is important. For big events, writers use the term "the multiverse" to describe everything similar to what an "omniverse" represents.

For an example, beyonder and owen's clash was described as:

"Two mightiest beings in all of existence"

"Every being in every dimension feels the Multiversal tremors born of their fury"

they clearly were affecting all of Marvel but writers did not utilize the term "omniverse" but it makes no difference

I see... I think I understand now.

Oh my god, you're right. I talk too much DC stuff recently, I confused it. You could take my mistake as a laughable joke however.

The Heart of the Universe is only a portion, arguably a tiny portion of TOAA's limited support considering that Thanos required more effort to absorb the abstracts, and its feats end there, where Beyonder would have zero problem to do it in a fodder instant even if after he was severely depowered. Where it stands. Its feats muddy a bit weaker to Beyonder's feats, that's why I don't see HOTU as being above Beyonder for it.

If the HOTU was intentionally a fully amped up by TOAA, then you'd have a case, but by feats, and by the limitations or at least the lack of support TOAA put into the HOTU that he could've added, the HOTU as it ever was, would not be above Beyonder.

Do you have a scan of molecule man destroying the omniverse?

This is the scan.

the first statement is pure speculation

the second was never stated. It was a multiverse not an omniverse

Then by all means, please refute it.

Omniverse as I use it context, is a totality setting, in that case, Marvel's entire Multiverse at the time was a droplet to Beyonder. I mean all Universes and all of Existence in Marvel to Beyonder, so I use it correctly.

So you basically gave it your own definition. lol okay

I pretty sure there is no legitimately real definition for the term "omniverse". Marvel, dr who ect... all treats the term differently.

Beyonder.

Ahahahahahaha! That's funny. That is a funny accusation. I never gave Omniverse my own definition smart one. There is no consistent use of "Omniverse" in Marvel and they used it in my context as well, depending.

Marvel writers can use Omniverse in my context too to merely imply totality and they use Multiverse for it as well, "Omni" means "All" but there's no consistent use of "Omniverse" in Marvel or DC, a Marvel writer even confirmed they use it interchangeably with Multiverse as seen above. They can use it to imply a totality as well. I use it in a totality context without really metafictionally implying reality, just as they have once used it interchangeably as well a few times in Ultimate Ultimates.

You nailed it.

Beyonder and MM never trapped an Omniverse in a box.

@sungsam said:

@champion99 said:

@sungsam said:

@champion99 said:

@sungsam said:

You'll find that Pre-Retcon Beyonder is still the second most powerful abstract in the entirety of Marvel's history, no abstract in Marvel below TOAA has come close to Beyonder's power by status and feats. Even if Marvel's Multiverse got more complex, or that LT and Eternity got better feats then on, they didn't become that much stronger... really... maybe just 10%, that's about it.

What the Beyonders did? Beyonder could've done it all by himself in a fodder instant.

What the First Firmament did? Beyonder wouldn't need henchmen to do his work.

What Oblivion did? What did he do? His best feat honestly was stalemating Infinity and getting erased concepts into his realm. Even CK's feats are questionable if it can be scaled to Oblivion.

What HOTU Thanos did? Let's get real, it wasn't all of TOAA's power, Beyonder would have foddered all of the abstracts in an instant faster than the HOTU, even with a small portion of his own power.

What Molecule Man did? Beyonder was an infinite void ocean to a droplet of water that was the Marvel Omniverse.

the first statement is pure speculation

the second was never stated. It was a multiverse not an omniverse

Then by all means, please refute it.

Omniverse as I use it context, is a totality setting, in that case, Marvel's entire Multiverse at the time was a droplet to Beyonder. I mean all Universes and all of Existence in Marvel to Beyonder, so I use it correctly.

So you basically gave it your own definition. lol okay

Ahahahahahaha! That's funny. That is a funny accusation. I never gave Omniverse my own definition smart one. There is no consistent use of "Omniverse" in Marvel and they used it in my context as well, depending.

Marvel writers can use Omniverse in my context too to merely imply totality and they use Multiverse for it as well, "Omni" means "All" but there's no consistent use of "Omniverse" in Marvel or DC, a Marvel writer even confirmed they use it interchangeably with Multiverse as seen above. They can use it to imply a totality as well. I use it in a totality context without really metafictionally implying reality, just as they have once used it interchangeably as well a few times in Ultimate Ultimates.

Just because Al Ewing used it like that doesn't mean it's correct. It does put a stop to the MM having a omniverse in a box though. Also, you never gave it your own definition yet you use phrases like "in my context" and "as I use it context". LMAO okay smart one.

@champion99 said:

@sungsam said:

@champion99 said:

@sungsam said:

@champion99 said:

@sungsam said:

You'll find that Pre-Retcon Beyonder is still the second most powerful abstract in the entirety of Marvel's history, no abstract in Marvel below TOAA has come close to Beyonder's power by status and feats. Even if Marvel's Multiverse got more complex, or that LT and Eternity got better feats then on, they didn't become that much stronger... really... maybe just 10%, that's about it.

What the Beyonders did? Beyonder could've done it all by himself in a fodder instant.

What the First Firmament did? Beyonder wouldn't need henchmen to do his work.

What Oblivion did? What did he do? His best feat honestly was stalemating Infinity and getting erased concepts into his realm. Even CK's feats are questionable if it can be scaled to Oblivion.

What HOTU Thanos did? Let's get real, it wasn't all of TOAA's power, Beyonder would have foddered all of the abstracts in an instant faster than the HOTU, even with a small portion of his own power.

What Molecule Man did? Beyonder was an infinite void ocean to a droplet of water that was the Marvel Omniverse.

the first statement is pure speculation

the second was never stated. It was a multiverse not an omniverse

Then by all means, please refute it.

Omniverse as I use it context, is a totality setting, in that case, Marvel's entire Multiverse at the time was a droplet to Beyonder. I mean all Universes and all of Existence in Marvel to Beyonder, so I use it correctly.

So you basically gave it your own definition. lol okay

Ahahahahahaha! That's funny. That is a funny accusation. I never gave Omniverse my own definition smart one. There is no consistent use of "Omniverse" in Marvel and they used it in my context as well, depending.

Marvel writers can use Omniverse in my context too to merely imply totality and they use Multiverse for it as well, "Omni" means "All" but there's no consistent use of "Omniverse" in Marvel or DC, a Marvel writer even confirmed they use it interchangeably with Multiverse as seen above. They can use it to imply a totality as well. I use it in a totality context without really metafictionally implying reality, just as they have once used it interchangeably as well a few times in Ultimate Ultimates.

Just because Al Ewing used it like that doesn't mean it's correct. It does put a stop to the MM having a omniverse in a box though. Also, you never gave it your own definition yet you use phrases like "in my context" and "as I use it context". LMAO okay smart one.

There is no "correct" or "consistent" meaning or definition of "Omniverse" in fiction...... smart one. Not even Marvel uses it consistently. So you using "but- but- MM never held an Omniverse in a box, Al Ewing is wrong! because muh feewingss! cuz im butthurt! waaah! waah!" as an argument without explaining why he is wrong on his definition or without explaining what even is your definition of Omniverse in your context would be, as opposed to mine, would make that an argument that contains zero content, and doesn't warrant a proper response from me.

I said Marvel's meaning of Omniverse also uses the same meaning and definition as my own context of Omniverse, depending. I already said I did not invent the definition of Omniverse I used, you said I made it up, and I showed you the scan to prove your accusation against me wrong. You trying to twist my words to mean what I didn't say is a desperate call from you to save your face.

Better luck next time.

Omniverse is a loose definition. It can mean very different things based on the readers and the writers. Back on thread, Pre-Retcon Beyonder wins this. If it were Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs Pre-Retcon Molecule Man, it would be closer.