Pre-Ragnarok Thor VS Endgame Thor

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#51 Edited by Erkan12 (9249 posts) - - Show Bio

@six-deuce: I agree. The clear difference is in here;

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We've never seen this performance from EG Thor in the battle, not even this;

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#52 Posted by AlexTheBoss (19090 posts) - - Show Bio

People are really underselling EG Thor. He one shot Ironman in his strongest suit and clearly still had his god of lightning powers that he got from Ragnarock. He did get weaker in EG, but not so much that he got weaker than his pre lightning god power up.

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#53 Edited by AlexTheBoss (19090 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12: Thor barely fought in EG compared to the other movies so of course he’ll have less feats. And he may be weaker than his IW counterpart, but their is no evidence he is weaker than his pre lightning god amp counterpart.

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#54 Edited by Erkan12 (9249 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss said:

@erkan12: Thor barely fought in EG compared to the other movies so of course he’ll have less feats. And he may be weaker than his IW counterpart, but their is no evidence he is weaker than his pre lightning god amp counterpart.

This is really like asking who wins between fat belly Mike Tyson vs. six packs muscled Mike Tyson,

There is an evidence, Tony Stark already told him he was in no condition to use the IG, and because of that Hulk had to use it. It means his lightning powers were also nerfed due to his poor condition, no difference here between using the infinity stones effectively or his lightning powers effectively, it's the same thing.

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#55 Posted by Darkthunder (3613 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre Ragnarok

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#56 Posted by TakenStew22 (4434 posts) - - Show Bio

EG Thor wins. People need to stop underselling Fat Thor so much. He was only slightly weaker than IW Thor.

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#57 Posted by MattyBoi (2408 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre ragnarok thor.

Doubt he'd be letting cap outshine him

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#58 Posted by AlexTheBoss (19090 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12: Your logic only applies when comparing Fat Thor to post Ragnarock Thor. Thor got a big power up during Ragnarock. The boost he got in Ragnarock is bigger than the nerf he got in endgame. It’s like how if ssj Goku got fat he would still be stronger than a fit base Goku.

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#59 Posted by 1kingjerry (919 posts) - - Show Bio

Fat Thor, Stormbreaker is definitely the better weapon

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#60 Posted by Six-Deuce (1770 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_hellstorm: EG Thor was there for comic relief ala Drax. He didnt have any great feats with SB in that movie...in fact Mjolnir actually performed better.

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#61 Edited by Erkan12 (9249 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss said:

@erkan12: Your logic only applies when comparing Fat Thor to post Ragnarock Thor. Thor got a big power up during Ragnarock. The boost he got in Ragnarock is bigger than the nerf he got in endgame. It’s like how if ssj Goku got fat he would still be stronger than a fit base Goku.

He got a power up due to pushing himself in battle against Hulk and then Hela, he was out of form and he was fat in Endgame, he was in no condition at all. He couldn't use that power.

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#62 Posted by FinalKingThanos (3024 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12: EG had a bigger cast to focus on in the final battle and most of Thors battle scenes were against Thanos that’s the only reason he seemed weaker, to many people built up this Thor solos image in there head for the year between films it seems.

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#63 Posted by Trololololol (863 posts) - - Show Bio

Doesn't even need to be pre-Ragnarok . Thor from the first movie destroys him .

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#64 Posted by Six-Deuce (1770 posts) - - Show Bio

@finalkingthanos: no, it is a valid point that fat Thor was nerfed....it is self evident from his performance on screen.

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#65 Edited by FinalKingThanos (3024 posts) - - Show Bio

@six-deuce: what previous feats could EG Thor not replicate in your eyes?

He was tearing through fodder just as effortlessly but didn’t get any big moments because no one did in that final battle they were bouncing between every hero for small portions.

The most battle time he got in EG was against one of the two most powerful villains he has faced so obviously he wouldn’t do that well.

For me he’s only “weaker” than IW Thor but makes up for it with Mjolnir and going for the kill.

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#66 Posted by Karkus (952 posts) - - Show Bio

EG Thor was weaker than IW Thor, but not that much weaker. He should be able to beat Pre-Ragnarok Thor solidly, especially with Stormbreaker.

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#67 Posted by AlexTheBoss (19090 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12: Thor was shown to have access to his lightning god powers in EG, and he one shot nano suit Ironman who could tank a giant meteor falling on him. Avengers 1 Thor had trouble with Ironman, EG Thor one shot him.

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#68 Posted by bobandjim1260 (1012 posts) - - Show Bio

@namebk: EG Thor used lightning several times in the film...

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#69 Posted by Namebk (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

@bobandjim1260: He only used it to charge Iron Man. He never used any against Thanos.

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#70 Posted by bobandjim1260 (1012 posts) - - Show Bio

@six-deuce: Furthermore the "Thanos was suprised" argument really creates a tremendous low outlier to Thanos reaction speed.

It's not an argument, it was confirmed by the Russo Brothers. Also, they weren't referring to Thor throwing Stormbreaker. They were referring to Thor's lightning blast directly after Thanos placed the Mind stone in the Gauntlet.

The actual attack from the axe was completely different. While it was rather obvious to me, the writers evidently needed to expand to clarify to those who didn't seem to get it.

Stormbreaker was built specifically to temporarily counteract a direct blow from the Gauntlet as well as be able to penetrate Thanos.

Thanos had no idea that Thor was even alive, let alone the the fact that he went to Nidavellir, got it running again, and created a weapon that was capable of all the aforementioned things.

The taken by surprise wasn't in regards to his reaction speed.

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#71 Edited by Redshift_Bacon (1360 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12 said:

Tony Stark: ''YOU'RE IN NO CONDITION.''

As he frankly tell us.

What do any of the other Avengers know about Asgardian biology..? Exactly. The snap would have killed Thor yea, but the only reason that Hulk survived is because he is able to absorb the Gamma Radiation, which is stated as the majority of the radiation coming from the Gauntlet.

If you believe that IW Thor would have survived the Snap, then your argument makes sense. But, I'm pretty confident he wouldn't.

@six-deuce said:

@redshift_bacon: it is not really unfounded, just look at his performance. Thor 1 had more impressive lightning on Jotunheim than EG Thor. It is also a stark contrast watching footage of IW Thor flying through everything, darkening the sky, and tanking ground shaking hits with zero damage.

The sky was already Dark and Cloudy in Endgame, also, Infinity War was supposed to be the Pinnacle of Thor's story arc, and he just got a massive power up. What better way to show that then with an impressive display of wiping out a bunch of Fodder. What Ground-Shaking hit did he No-Show btw?? As far as I can tell, Thanos never struck Stormbreaker Thor in IW. The lightning cloak is only really useful against Fodder, which Thanos is not so, why waste the Power? And, he didn't fly much? Again that just isn't a super compelling argument.

Furthermore the "Thanos was suprised" argument really creates a tremendous low outlier to Thanos reaction speed.

...And? Thanos had just reached the Pinnacle of power in the Universe. He was overconfident and didn't expect Thor to be so powerful, and Didn't expect a weapon that Absorbs energy to come flying at him, even then, he reacted to it almost immediately with a Beam attack... Also, Thanos's Reaction Speed isn't really that great either. He gets caught off guard all the time by the Avengers on Titan, and he WASN'T blitzed by Stormbreaker, he saw it and reacted and still failed to stop it. The directors even stated that "If Thanos knew Thor had Stormbreaker he would have easily defeated him" so I will never understand this IW Thor wank. IW Thor is not as powerful as people Think he is, and EG Thor is not nerfed. Base Thanos is just THAT powerful when he is 100% Serious, which we also saw when he Incap'd the Hulk in 11 Blows.

There is not really alot of continuity from Thor to Thor to be honest....whether we are talking about how his powers work or his fighting performance etc.

I disagree. I think Phase 1/2 Thor is a very well-established Character, with well defined Upper and Lower limits. I also think that Ragnarok Thor is well defined. Being able to defeat the Hulk in H2H is a good measurement. But, both Ragnarok Thor (well, post-ragnarok) and Hulk were swiftly defeated by a Thanos who restricted the Power-Stone's usage. Honestly, it isn't that hard to make out.

Base Thanos > Awakened Thor > Hulk > Phase 1 Thor

The only reason Hulk can survive the Snap is because he Absorbs a lot of the power instead of needing to Tank it with Brute-Force.

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#72 Edited by Six-Deuce (1770 posts) - - Show Bio

@redshift_bacon: you have created a rather convoluted string of theories to support your conclusion. It is far simpler to believe that Thor performed far better in IW than EG because he was reduced in the interim. It is possible that you are correct, but if so...the producers did a truly atrocious job of portraying his character as of a similar caliber. My position is more backed by observable screen time however and less dependent on subjective interpretation. It seemed at the end there they were trying to create a little bit of flirtatious tension between Thor and Starlord...maybe that is his final character arc and the cause of all his pathetic girl troubles. He has underlying tendencies....they may as well at this point, currently he is just a RIP off of the Dude from big lebowski.

Edit: ground shaking punches he no sold is from ragnarok when he discovered lightning mode in the arena. I was referring to his ability to amp/heal with lightning...which he no longer showed in EG.

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#73 Posted by Erkan12 (9249 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12 said:

Tony Stark: ''YOU'RE IN NO CONDITION.''

As he frankly tell us.

What do any of the other Avengers know about Asgardian biology..?

They know better than you, especially Tony.

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#74 Posted by bobandjim1260 (1012 posts) - - Show Bio

@namebk: rewatch the fight. Thor had a lightning charged Mjolnir and Stormbreaker fighting Thanos. He fired a blast to charge Tony, he hit several of Thanos's forces with lightning several times. He very much used his lightning powers in the final battle.

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#75 Posted by deactivated-5d0b495e7009f (1844 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre Ragnarock is much more competent

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#76 Edited by Namebk (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

@bobandjim1260: He never used any lightning against Thanos. No lightning cloak or biggest lightning bolt in history or anything else. His best lightning feats are from Ragnarok and Infinity War.

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#77 Edited by bobandjim1260 (1012 posts) - - Show Bio

@redshift_bacon:

"so I will never understand this IW Thor wank. IW Thor is not as powerful as people Think he is, and EG Thor is not nerfed. Base Thanos is just THAT powerful when he is 100% Serious, which we also saw when he Incap'd the Hulk in 11 Blows."

This. Thank you. This Thor and Hela wank needs to end. It's just like the people who can't accept that MCU Captain Marvel is technically the strongest Avenger.

I will say that EG Thor is likely not as battle ready as his IW counterpart, but this idea that there is this huge gap between them to justify him losing to Thanos is honestly ridiculous.

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#78 Posted by Redshift_Bacon (1360 posts) - - Show Bio

@six-deuce said:

@redshift_bacon: you have created a rather convoluted string of theories to support your conclusion. It is far simpler to believe that Thor performed far better in IW than EG because he was reduced in the interim. It is possible that you are correct, but if so...the producers did a truly atrocious job of portraying his character as of a similar caliber.

Just like it is more simple to believe that God is the reason there are tides and that rain falls. Give me a break. My Theories are all backed by character statements, feats, or Director statements. Whereas, your single Theory rests on your own Opinion on the Power of IW Thor.

My position is more backed by observable screen time however and less dependent on subjective interpretation. It seemed at the end there they were trying to create a little bit of flirtatious tension between Thor and Starlord...maybe that is his final character arc and the cause of all his pathetic girl troubles.

It really isn't though? Prime Stormbreaker Thor only won against Thanos when he caught him by surprise. EG Thor had Mjolnir to further his powers and still lost, because Thanos knew he was coming and was out for Blood. The ironic part is that you claim my Theory is dependent on Subjective Interpretation... news flash, saying "Thor got Weaker" is Subjective.

I was referring to his ability to amp/heal with lightning...which he no longer showed in EG.

But, he WAS amped by the Lightning... it just didn't make a difference because Thanos is that much stronger.

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#79 Posted by Redshift_Bacon (1360 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12 said:

They know better than you, especially Tony.

Remind me, what is Tony Stark's background in Biology..? He needed Bruce Banner's help to build Vision's Techno-Organic body.

Anyways, I think Thor would know more about Asgardian Biology than Tony. The Stones would have killed Thor, with or without Stormbreaker. Its just that Now, he is ready to make that sacrifice, to bring everyone back, because He believes he failed them.

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#80 Posted by FinalKingThanos (3024 posts) - - Show Bio

So people still think Ie Thor would beat EG Thanos or any easily ?

So would you also assume IW Thor could beat the same trinity Thanks faces which includes himself dual wielding? I highly doubt it.

Thanos and Hela are both above him but Thor has a weapon capable of killing pretty much anyone that’s his equaliser but it’s not enough for a majority against Thanos as we’ve seen he struggles to compete with him at all.

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#81 Edited by Six-Deuce (1770 posts) - - Show Bio

@redshift_bacon: your theory depends on interpretation. Thor has weaker feats because............. (insert string of non-synergistic contrarian opinions) I am simply saying Thor's feats are weaker because he is weaker. They obviously wrote him as reduced....he is sad, fat, constantly drunk, unsure of himself (am I even worthy), mom issues, cowardly (couldnt even face Jane to get reality stone). His lightning was far smaller, he had other characters referring to him not at his best, moved noticeably slower, fought with less versatility (no flying, healing, lightning aura, or earth shattering blows). My opinion is superior. Thor is nerfed...if you want to make up some head cannon, God bless.

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#82 Posted by Six-Deuce (1770 posts) - - Show Bio

@finalkingthanos: we have not seen IW Thor struggling with base Thanos....they met once and Thor chopped his head off. This Thor had just 1 shot a prime Thanos in fact.

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#83 Posted by Redshift_Bacon (1360 posts) - - Show Bio

your theory depends on interpretation. Thor has weaker feats because............. (insert string of non-synergistic contrarian opinions) I am simply saying Thor's feats are weaker because he is weaker.

No, I don't think you understand my argument. My argument is that Thor doesn't have weaker feats. He just has a much smaller showing compared to IW.

They obviously wrote him as reduced....he is sad, fat, constantly drunk, unsure of himself (am I even worthy), mom issues, cowardly (couldnt even face Jane to get reality stone).

But he regains his confidence and is still shown as Worthy despite all of that. Yes Thor is out of Prime but that isn't the argument, his "Out-Of-Prime" self is still far superior to himself before he got Stormbreaker.

His lightning was far smaller, he had other characters referring to him not at his best, moved noticeably slower, fought with less versatility (no flying, healing, lightning aura, or earth shattering blows).

  • His Lightning was Smaller (Because he wasn't fighting Fodder he was fighting Thanos)
  • Other Characters reference him as not his best (That was mostly Tony and they were clearly mocking his new Bodyfat... what is 20 LBS of Bodyfat to a Multi-Ton character..??)
  • Moved Noticeably Slower (Factually False. He moved the same speed, albiet less Nimble. He didn't fly so, how are you going to judge his Flying IW speed to his ground-based EG speed?)
  • Fought with less Versatility (Flying Was Useless, Lightning Aura was present at the beginning of the fight but, again, was Useless. Earth Shattering Blows don't damage Thanos, Stormbreaker does)

Honestly, like I said, those are all very weak points that don't make Logical sense, when the opponent Thor was facing in Endgame is immune or can counter all of those things. Unless, you really believe Thor can't Fly anymore..? I mean... Thats a joke, right?

My opinion is superior. Thor is nerfed...if you want to make up some head cannon, God bless.

Your opinion is Deuce. Thor is not nerfed, you're just mad because it is proven that Thanos >> Thor

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#84 Edited by Karkus (952 posts) - - Show Bio

Base Thanos > IW Thor > EG Thor.

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#85 Edited by Six-Deuce (1770 posts) - - Show Bio

@redshift_bacon: Thor used large lightning strikes on plenty of non-fodder so that is a silly arguement. Thor was outpaced by Black Panther into battle, and I am pretty certain his only vaguely acrobatic move in EG was a sort of sad slide along the ground. Before that he was flipping, flying, actually riding lightning in one outlier, and twisting mid-air to avoid blows....not to mention his new flying mode with SB....and he didnt move slower in EG? ARE YOU BLIND? Your argument about Thanos being better than Thor makes me mad is idiotic....I am not a fan of MCU Thor...he is a completely boring character...almost as bad as DCEU Clark. IW Thor 1 shot Thanos while wearing the IG...if that is not evidence enough he was superior to base Thanos then....here's your sign.

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#86 Posted by FinalKingThanos (3024 posts) - - Show Bio

@six-deuce: lol you mean crippled Thanos?

Anytime the two have been face to face in a fight across both movies Thor has been left battered and half dead his only two out right successes have been to ambush Thanos.

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#87 Edited by FinalKingThanos (3024 posts) - - Show Bio

@six-deuce: @redshift_bacon: Thor does fly in EG, again it’s just not as focussed on because that’s not the story this time but there’s literally not a feat he couldn’t a do that his past self could.

There’s even that behind the scenes footage of Thor doing jumping spins to dodge attacks lol he moves at the same speed and has the same power people just can’t accept he’s below Thanos in a proper fight that’s by design it’s obvious from the films.

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#88 Posted by Six-Deuce (1770 posts) - - Show Bio

@finalkingthanos: How was Thor crippled and battered when at the end of IW he tossed SB through about a quarter mile of beam of IG and through Thanos armor deep into his midsection. Then Thanos uses the IG to bfr himself. Base Thanos has no healing feats...how is he supposed to survive that without infinity gauntlet? Also you created a straw man argument...I never said EG Thor cannot fly...I said he doesn't fight using flight...or lightning cloak, or faster than human speed, or any of his hax. He became a fat brick with some sparkles. Lol at Base Thanos beating IW Thor...he would just get his head chopped off again.

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#89 Posted by deactivated-5d1b55b9aec46 (123 posts) - - Show Bio

Endgame Thor is same as IW Thor except he's out of body shape. He was also quite agile.

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#90 Posted by FinalKingThanos (3024 posts) - - Show Bio

@six-deuce: you mentioned when Thor killed him in EG not the ambush from IW.

He cut through a Thanos in a vest lol we’ve seen the armour he wears to battle can take SB slashes.

Plus more to the point in a 1v1 “real” fight how does Thor even land a hit ? As soon as he’s close to Thanos he’s getting grabbed battered and killed as was shown.

All the things you listed only works against Fodder lol even with an axe in his chest Thanos still snapped and your talking about minor lightning cloak damaging him lol he took 3 lightning blasts over two films and just stood back up like Jason voorhees.

There’s more chance of Thor being killed by his own axe than decapitating a battle ready Thanos.

Do you think IW Thor could defeat EG Thor/MK85/Cap 1v3 because that’s basically what your saying lol.

Your just upset he wasn’t focussed on for visuals and I have no idea why!! He was still good in EG and had some good moments, there’s not one feat from the past that EG Thor couldn’t replicate he’s literally been the same power level since Thor 1 the only two things that have changed are his ability to use lighting without a hammer and he now also wields an axe.

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#91 Posted by Bayman007 (2491 posts) - - Show Bio

End game Thor was still a warrior, but a wreck.

Captain America tells him he was in no shape to don the gold glove, but i bet that IW Thor could have put it on and lived.

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#92 Posted by FinalKingThanos (3024 posts) - - Show Bio

@bayman007: Tony Stark tells him he sin no condition to wear the gauntlet mentally because of the task at hand it wasn’t purely durability test, plus he would be badly hurt either way as he doesn’t absorb gamma radiation and his durability is below Hulk/Thanos

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#93 Edited by Bayman007 (2491 posts) - - Show Bio

@finalkingthanos: Captain stops him first, but yes correct, it's Tony that says he is no condition. The point is, they stop him, because of the sate of him.

Yes Hulk seemed like the logical choice, and imo he should have tanked it better than Thanos if not for the bad writing.

I don't agree that Thor would be hurt badly by wearing it when he is fit. The other person i think can wear it with no problems, is Danvers.

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#94 Posted by Rebake (4672 posts) - - Show Bio

@bayman007: bad writing? Professor Hulk is no way more durable than Thanos.

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#95 Posted by Bayman007 (2491 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake: Yes, bad writing.

I said he should have tanked it. But i can't change the film. I can only wait for another, better, incarnation.

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#96 Posted by FinalKingThanos (3024 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake: @bayman007: curious why should Hulk tank it better than Thanos when he’s always tiers below him?

Lol course Thor would be hurt wtf you talking about that’s how the stones work in the MCU Thor is also below them in durability and doesn’t absorb radiation.

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#97 Edited by Bayman007 (2491 posts) - - Show Bio

@finalkingthanos: What do you mean wtf am i talking about. I've made my stance very clear to you.

Thor was not himself, but Thor prior to 5 years on the binge, could have followed his IW Star level energy durability feat. With Stormbreaker by his side.

Hulk should have taken Thanos to pieces aswell, the anger machine got benched because of sack face.

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#98 Edited by FinalKingThanos (3024 posts) - - Show Bio

@bayman007: lol the gauntlet is above the star feat in terms of scale.

Ehh why? Both of them gets stomped by Thanos across all media why should mcu be any different?

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#99 Posted by Bayman007 (2491 posts) - - Show Bio

@finalkingthanos: I honestly don't care how you scale things in this case.

And the rest of what you said is false. Thanos should be avoiding battle with the big rage machine. All he is a chump, with some bling.

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#100 Posted by FinalKingThanos (3024 posts) - - Show Bio

@bayman007: obviously you don’t because at this point your trolling or just down right silly lol.

Hahaha exactly like I said your either trolling or daft, the comics the cartoons and the films all point to one thing and it’s certainly no where close to the hulk having a chance without his team mates.