Pre-Crisis Supergirl vs Thanos and Zeus.

• Morals off.
• Perfect teamwork.
• Who wins?

Supergirl wins. I am sure this has been done before. You made the thread.

I want to say Pre crisis Super girl through scaling but im not sure.

lol

That was pre crisis superman vs odin and zeus, unless I am forgetting something.

Supergirl.

@kalkent: Alright then.

Pre Crisis Supergirl at full power beat up COIE Anti Monitor and made him run away. I'm pretty sure that's a better feat than anything the Marvel team could pull up.

@thegreatlordd: Near full power, he had destroyed and consumed most universes at that point. She was able to not only fight him, but break his armour in the process which forced him to retreat. Pretty sure she got killed by a blast he shot out while he was escaping or something like that.

@stalin-is-steel: not to mention the Kryptonians were weaker in anti matter zone, and IIRC she took multiple blasts from AM.

@thegreatlordd: Most Pre Crisis characters are pretty inconsistent (which is why they usually aren't used in battles, they don't quantify very well) but the fact is that by scaling and by even contending with Monitor, the Marvel team doesn't have physical stats close to her. The only way they could win is through TP, but Thanos rarely pulls it out at all, let alone at the start of the fight.

@thegreatlordd:

This also was the Bronze Age, where anti-feats like this existed for the Kryptonians.

That feat is out of context, he is moving the planet through a space warp. He was able to move earth at FTL speeds while weaker later on. Though bronze age also gives them high-end feats. This is just one showing. It actually doesn't matter.

Do you know which issue this is from?

Not sure. But it looks one of those nitpicked scans you find on old forums.

@thegreatlordd: Anti Monitor was fought in the Ani Matter zone at that time was going to kill Superman that's why Supergirl intervened. Actually, a lot of things were happening on a plot basis on that point. Since writers wanted to reboot the DC universe, one of the things which at that time they decided to do was "kill Supergirl". About statements, There are statements for Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter being equal to Superman but in reality, at physically they are not. There is a huge difference in feats. Automatically one character becomes weaker than the other. Zeus is weaker than Odin yes- for the reason that he has better feats. Same. There are no galaxy level feats I have seen from Zeus yet. But Supergirl does and her Superman does. They are also faster and have time travel and better energy projection off scaling.

@thegreatlordd: That is why I asked what feats does Zeus have to be above the liked of Odin. Going by writers intent and statements from the Databook Supergirl is as powerful as Superman (pre-crisis) but feats, yes feats show otherwise. As for Zeus vs Supergirl. She has galaxy level statements in the same arc she has galaxy level durability feats (against Blackstar who was having more powerful energy manip than Odin). Though I don't think Supergirls by feats has more energy projection than Odin, no absolutely not. But she has enough DC from scaling and physical strikes that shredded the body of AM who at that time was no selling pre-crisis JLA including Superman. Odin is a different deal. Just like Superman is a different deal. Scaling Zeus from Odin is not any better than other power scaling being used in faovor of Supergirl. Since she does have separate feats to "top it off".

@thegreatlordd:

Is there any feat that directly proves Superman as doing something Supergirl couldn't?

Yes. There are many. Supergirl herself has stated Superman is physically stronger as compared to a human male to a standard female. So he is definitely stronger than her, however, in the same moment, she was able to deflect a mind-controlled Superman from destroying the earth. She does say she can't do it everything and that is justified. But she can be scaled from him. "logically" as unlike post-crisis Supergirl does not have many contradictions as well. Though Supergirl did better against some opponents than Superman. Especially in the bronze age. Where Supergirl has high-end feats.

So Supergirl > Superman, or are you just talking about a later chapter in which AM got stronger? AM got stronger after his encounter with Supergirl.

100% agreed. AM was the strongest when he stalemated Spectre a decently amped stronger. However, does not mean AM was weak, or Superman was jobbing. The writers intent was to kill Supergirl and they wanted to show her big sacrifice. The AM became stronger though

As for AM power level it was inconsistent but way way more than Zeus. To the point, even before stalemating spectre he had Stalemated Monitor for "1 million years in energy projection". He was already destroying universes, (albeit over time) yet tanking universe busting blasts as well.

@thegreatlordd: Post-Crisis JLA, Morrison's run but written by Waid.

How this is relevant to Pre-Crisis Supergirl at all I am unsure.

@thegreatlordd: Can you give a citation of that scan, please. I read COIE #6 and 7 again. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to be a part of the absolute edition. Which has a lot of contradicting information to the original crisis. Not that it affects our stance since Odin destroyed Galaxies alongside opponents. While AM destroyed Whole universes. Not comparable. Remotely. Not to mention Pre-crisis SM also has multiple galaxy level feats and SG has galaxy level durability and statements. If we are taking "STATEMENT OF ZEUS" we have to take "STATEMENT OF SUPERGIRL" in which case she is a galaxy buster and is more or less equal to Superman and Blackstar.

What does Zeus have again? Apart from that without feats statement about him being Equal to Odin.... feats wise he is not really a "fair match" here. Let alone make this debatable.

Team.

Supergirl.

Supergirl. Zeus gets stomped because he doesn’t have many feats, and Thanos gets fodderized soon after.

The problem with Zeus is that we don’t really know what being equal to Odin really means. Does he have as much power as Odin or does he have the same amount of versatility? We don’t really know. One statement about being equal to Odin isn’t really enough to say he could take Supergirl in a fight. Zeus really doesn‘t even have the feats to suggest that he could hurt Supergirl, seeing as how she was no selling multiple quasars of energy from Black Starr.

@thegreatlordd: JLA 21 by Mark Waid. Waid filled in for a couple of issues in the Morrsion run

@thegreatlordd: that is before the fight though. It exaplains how the multiverse began. How many universes came into being "how the crisis started".

Yeah, but the issue is that Odin was depowered in all of his Multi-Galaxy busting feats, while AM destroyed Universes, but they were said to be "weaker" than Normal, and he took time to do them, along with his method of sending waves of Anti-Matter to destroy them. AM was also affected by attacks from his minions.

Odin never busted multi galaxy on his own. And Zeus is featless. There is one legit galaxy level feat for Odin though. That aside, Universes were still though universes. They were weaker compared to the "whole" before the "dawn of time". The panels mentioned on the "absolute edition." Dont matter at all. Just like the power level of current Odin.

Sure, unless we have a reason not to believe those statements, then they can be used. Just like Zues.

Actually, we have a reason to believe that Zeus statements are not that great. I mean sure he is powerful but a lame excuse of the super-powered god in comparison to someone like Odin. Going by feats alone. Whereas, in Supergirls case we have Galaxy level durability and galaxy level physical strikes by scaling etc. She also scaled from Superman who far surpasses even Odin in feats (minus the skyfather hax) which Zeus has not used on panel. And has been stated to only level in terms of "power".

He has very few appearances, so aside from stomping the likes of Hulk and Thor, that's it, but I see no reason to automatically assume it's wrong.

That seems pretty weak though. To be honest.

OT: I'll do a CAV with anyone who thinks Zeus has a chance here. Up until now, he seems even weaker than Thanos tbh.

@thegreatlordd:

Always when fighting a strong opponent yeah, but it's as a side effect, and he was depowered.

I know its as a side effect but it still does not mean he did it alone. There are people who have done it alone though. Depowered is fair enough, you have scans and citations for showing "depowered".

But they were "weaker", we can't quantify them compared to regular Universes.

Since there are universes before the COIE actually we can. We only know that the universe like the DC earth, it is just the same with only "different vibration" and their placement in the DC multiverse over time. So it is a full universe. Though he did it over time. Still multiversal feat accomplished over time is way better than anything Odin has done.

Why not? They should be valid unless contradicted. The power level of "Current Odin" was just under Jason Aaron, he's one writer, while there are a multitude of writers for Odin.

That is contradicted though. I just told you the contradiction and ^ I gave you the explanation. It is not part of the COIE Original issues. Anything that is not contradicted is valid, that is a false argument. Not to mention the "cherry picking here". Let me point here, also this is a legit "fallacy". Argument from ignorance -

Saying that he just doesn't have as good feats isn't a definitive reason, since he has so little appearances. If he attacked a Planet with all his might and it didn't destroy it, that'd be a reason.

Actually it is. Like he was not able to one Green Scar. There is a definitive reason for Supergirl to win though. This is just "plain cherry picking on your part". Supergirl was " logically scaling " from the time she stepped on earth (in the atmosphere and under the yellow Sun). With feats in combat to top it off.

Seems weaker or has less feats?

Feats are an important part of the debate here on comicvine. Zeus does not seem like a character who will be easy to debate with. Let alone win the debates especially if done practically. To give you an example of this. Thanos vs Odin has been debated here. By people and people acutally have made a good case for Thanos (riddiculous right) but that is due to feats and showings Thanos has. Though it was also debunked a lot. But fact that someone is able to do it because of showings proves the ease feats bring.

Zeus is actually officially ranked above Odin by official guidebooks tho, such as Marvel- Absolutely Everything You Need To Know.

SG gets TP'd.

So are we ignoring Supergirl's magic weakness or...?

@thegreatlordd: But equal in what way? Does he have the same power output as Odin, even though he has no actual feats to suggest he can produce anywhere near that kind of power? Does he have the same amount of versatility, even though he’s never demonstrated it anywhere near as effectively as Odin? Guidebook statements don’t mean much, because we don’t really know how this would apply in an actual battle. Supergirl is just way too fast and way too strong, and Zeus doesn’t have the feats to hurt her.

Team.

mismatch

@thegreatlordd: In my opinion, Pre Crisis Superman would beat Odin in a decent fight, although I’m not sure if Supergirl could. The reason why Superman doesn’t easily beat Odin is because of his versatility advantage. Supergirl would still beat Zeus, because like you said he may have the same amount of power output as Odin, but he wouldn’t have the versatility to beat her.

Considering how inconsistent they are, can you even scale Pre-Crisis characters?

@kevd4wg: Supergirl is very consistent. In all of her appearances, there are appearances where she gets no feats. She just has a random showing but when she does get feats they are good. As for power scaling. Her power scaling actually is impressive. Because "it justifies" her showings. She/They also have galaxy level statements feats. Etc. In fact, these are just the consistent feats taking high end she has universal feats. If it was Odin it would be different for sure, but considering Zeus. Why? If we are applying the same logic that we are applying for Zeus (statements and scaling) we have to use it for Supergirl (plus she has feats for that) otherwise it is a massive double standard, and that's not a debate Zeus can win.

@empressofdread: That wasn't my question. Pre-Crisis characters are super inconsistent, they fluctuate in power level all the time so is it fair to even scale one character to another knowing how much they fluctuate in power?

@kevd4wg: Not when it is done reasonably and not everyone is inconsistent. Especially not the characters I am scaling off of. Yes, there are characters that are inconsistent but who is not. I don't even think Post-crisis Superman Or Thanon Or Hulk or Galactus or Wonder Woman are consistent. It more related to their (pre-crisis) bad reputation on this site, they have built up. But look at it this way, scaling should be done like in the arc where Black Star was performing universal and galaxy level feats so clearly Supergirl was powerful enough to go up against such foes without any problem. And which characters should not be scaled in my opinion characters like Wonder Woman. She has no feats to put her close to Superman/Supergirl, scaling is "illogical" for her. I have however scaled her before but that would be problematic. Also, a lot of time people do not know the context or have read the comics. When they make some absurd claims. I haven't really seen this "inconsistency" on this site from Supergirl character. That's all that matters.

Agreed with the bold.

Either way, Supergirl takes this.

Supergirl