Pralaya and Perpetua run the gauntlet

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Round 1 : Odin and Dormmamu

Round 2 : Dark Phoenix and Adult Franklin Richards

Round 3 : Post Retcon Molecule Man and Post Retcon Beyonder

Round 4 : Thought Robot and Chaos War Hercules

Round 5 : Classic Living Tribunal

Round 6 : Dream of The Endless and Delirium of the Endless

Round 7 : Pre-Retcon Beyonder and Pre-retcon Molecule Man

Round 8 : Death of the Endless and Destiny of The Endless

Round 9 : The Endless

Round 10 : Michael Demiurgos and Lucifer Morningstar

Round 11 : TOAA and The presence

Technically she should stop at 11 but theoretically she could be stopped 10 by Michael

She doesn't have any feats beyond Destiny, stops at 8.

Loses rd 7 which is misplaced

Maybe lose rd 5 also.

10

Anywhere between 8 and 10.

Oh, I thought this was only Perpetua lol, they could still stop at 8 though, definitely 9/10.

Lol at your rounds, all kinds of messed up.

5/7/11 probable only ones to defeat them. That's due to pralaya not perpetual though

The pre retcon bros should be way higher

@annamalhouse: So Living Tribunal can defeat them, and not Lucifer/Michael combo? Lmao.

@soratoumiga: correct

@annamalhouse: Either Lucifer or Michael can solo Tribunal, and they can barely defeat this duo.

@soratoumiga: lol, sorry but no, the angels are much below the LT. Only DC fanboys claim otherwise.

They are only top multiversal powers where as LT is Omniversal in power

@annamalhouse:

the angels are much below the LT

The other way around, especially since these days LT is a jobber. But regardless, LT is nowhere near Angels.

Only DC fanboys claim otherwise.

People with sufficient knowledge in dimensional scaling and tiering would claim Lucifer/Michael are above LT, on the other hand, delusional (or unknowledgeable) fanboys would think LT is above them, since neither feats nor hype would support that.

They are only top multiversal powers

Ehh, idk how you treat highest tier abstracts, but if you think they're only multiversal as they can only destroy an infinite amount of universes, you'd be seriously lowballing them. Lucifer alone is above beings who are infinitely above realms above infinite dimensions that transcend the infinite DC Multiverse. Same goes for Michael, and Endless on that matter.

where as LT is Omniversal in power

No, he's not.

Omniversal means ''all universes'', which varies in size from fiction to fiction. DC's omniverse is far larger than Marvel's omniverse.

LT is Omniversal power,he's shown

Multiversal abstracts are much beneath him. He is someone that trans a infinite amount of multiverses within the marvel omniverse. These are facts!

There is absolutely NOTHING showing either brother beyond the top power within the presence's multiversal creation.

No, don't give me that shit. ''Omniversal'' varies in size from fiction to fiction. An omniverse isn't necassary bigger than a multiverse in an another fictional verse.

Infinite multiverses? Did you know that even the main space-time continuum duplicated itself to infinite multiverses in zero time?

This is called ''Quantum multiverse'', which is considered to be above baseline megaversal/baseline infinite multiverse.

Did you know that Lucifer tanked the destruction of the whole DC verse, A.K.A DC omniverse?:

Yeah, that shows that he is above the omniversal creation of the presence with ease and also above the living tribunal, since the omniverse of DC is way bigger than marvel's omniverse.

That scan proves nothing your trying to say, lmao!

Lucifer only survived a Multiversal buster attack! Fact!!!

DC is almost ALWAYS shown as only haveing a single multiverse and that's it. Compared to the finite multiverses in marvel, so it's actually much smaller.

oh boy.........

OT: probably between 8 and 10

What is it? LOL.

One multiverse? LOL, what? It's actually said that the main DC space-time continuum contains more than just one multiverse, it contains infinite multiverses. And that thousand times. And that you say ''almost'' implies that in some interpretations there is more than just one multiverse. Why ignore them? Because you know you marvel team would lose then?

In the interpretation of Vertigo, the multiverse is shown to have infinite dimensions. And this is actually the lowest existence plane in DC.

Yes one multiverse, that whole meta verse stuff with all the alternate realities is just a normal multiverse, jeez. Is that so hard for you to understand? Your trying to make it into much more then it really is. All that shit is just normal stuff within a multiverse.

Actually I can think of only one true instance where more then one multiverse is ever mentioned in DC within the larger omniverse and that's in the perpetua storyline. That's it.

And no that doesnt make marvel guys lose either lol.

That could be just a fluke if it's something that is never referred to again though

there's some serious wank going on around here, anyways I think they stop at 7. Pralaya is basically the dc version of oblivion and has destroyed everything in the multiverse from what I've heard so multiversal to possibly megaversal, as is Perpetua who is the one who created the local multiverse in dc and from the looks of it, above his three sons the overmonitor, the anti-monitor, and the world forger. Pre-retcon beyonder was massively above everyone in marvel, he was basically god before there was genesis, no one was near to him in power and always limits himself so that he can be defeated, no one was actually able to beat him. Perpetua has yet to show feats, so Owen and beyonder wins this comfortably

@annamalhouse: living tribunal is too much of a jobber lol. I don't think he has ever won a battle, he was losing against protege and scathan had to save his ass, he was scared of pre retcon beyonder, he lost to thanos with the heart of the universe, he lost to thanos again with the regulator, he was killed by the ivory kings, and was killed by lord order and master chaos. The jobbing tribunal would have been a fitting name for him tbh.

@annamalhouse: @giojoestar: LT has shown nothing to suggest he can hang with either of the brothers. Hell, his entire power depends upon cosmic hierarchy. Any multiversal being that doesn't follow the hierarchy rules has punked LT. Thanos with a regulator has beat LT. The only reason he is regarded so highly is because of his position in Marvel cosmics. Well, that's the only explanation I have about LT jobbing so much.

stops at 8

Again, infinite multiverses in marvel were never mentioned. Just a majority of multiverse a.ka infinite-dimensional multiverses were mentioned. Beside from that, I told you thousand times that a omniverse can vary in size from fiction to fiction, since it means ''All universes'', which can vary from fiction to fiction, like I said. When we take into account the other existence planes, DC surpasses infinite-dimensional by several layers of infinite. Or what do you exactly mean?

Truth be told, she may stop at 6 or at least have some extreme difficulty.

Ends at 8

Clear all the way until 11, where they end.

Stops at 4. The Plot Bot is birthed from the Meta comic book page, made to Monitor the other lower tier Monitors. The exact same essence that imprisoned Perpetua can only be contained by monitors of Nil, of which the Cosmic Armor can effortlessly contain. This information is objective and not based on opinion.

Feels nice to see someone who can accept facts and come out of favouritism.

The marvel beings are bunch of non factors

Yes.

Umm, Pralaya are Perpetua are sure as hell not losing to the Living Tribunal individually, let alone put together lol...

pralaya solo

perpétua solo

they stop at 9

Gets trashed by 9 and above is

They both stop at 3 and lose mid-diff.

Hard Stop at 4, which should be round 11. Hercules is a non-factor here.

Stops at 4. Take out tier 4 and they clear it. Perpetua literally made the Sphere of Gods and has the Voidwind energy, which deletes Gods in it specifically. Also, we've been running on 2 or more years now where DC has said repeatedly that The Presence is nowhere near the top of the food chain.

@michaeljulius: DC has said that The Presence is nowhere near the best? Scans please. I'm not saying that what you are saying isn't true, I just want to see the scans for my own reference.

Justice League Dark 2018 started all of this, which is why the last two years of debating has been so intense here. Dr. Fate says Perpetua is the original creator, Dr. Fate also says Hecate > the otherkind and both Constantine, WW and Dr. Fate agree, The Presence himself lives in fear of the Otherkind, who Hecate and the Upsidedown Man are a basically the alphas of. Eclipso was made by the Presence specifically to affect the weaknesses of Hecate because The Presence couldn't do it by himself. This is quite a lot of evidence and direct statements, even Lucifer acknowledges that the Otherkind are absurd.

Beyond that, Perpetua literally made the Sphere of Gods that contains all the above. She also has the Voidwind, which erases Gods. The Spectre and Phantom Stranger were no sold by Batman Who Laughs, who explained Dark Multiverse entities are not affected by The positive matter creation entities. Apparently, The Spectre is actually dead, which cannot happen unless Yahwe is killed first, as it was said in final crisis revelations that Spectre and Radiant cannot perish unless Yahwe is no longer in existence.

Gets stomped at 4 thanks to TR. Clears the rest.

@michaeljulius: Hmm. That is interesting indeed. Because although it is not implicitly stated word for word that Perpetua is greater than The Presence, I can see why people say that Perpetua > The Presence because of her feats (her role in the creation of the multiverse and the sphere of Gods). DC needs to clarify this, by saying once and for all whether or not she is over The Presence.

Perpetua can probably solo up to Round 10. Despite the Monitor Wank, Perpetua is actually a cut above the Thought Robot.

Agreed, it is required. But we do have her creator on video saying

"There is a Presence, and a source wall, lets go beyond it and see whats there"

Monitors were back there, that is what the entire plot of Dark Knight: Metal was all about and this group here wants to censor this entire comic as if it never happened. Start at about 7:20 in this vid. Dude says it flat out on video.

And also this nonsense about Perpetua being a cut above CAS? What nonsense. Mandrakk was literally made to go investigate Perpetua's creation. He watched the Multiverse collapse into a universe and then watched it split into 52. He is literally made to be the superior of COIE Monitors. Don't listen to this bias fan interpretation, listen to the scans tell you flat out Mandrakk watched the Multiverse split.

"There is a Presence, and a source wall, lets go beyond it and see whats there"

Beyond doesn't mean "more powerful than" he's just talking about expanding the cosmic structure, which is what he did in his run.

And also this nonsense about Perpetua being a cut above CAS? What nonsense. Mandrakk was literally made to go investigate Perpetua's creation

This was retconned. Mandrakk is an aspect of Mar Novu, who fragmented during Crisis on Infinite Earths. He's much weaker than Perpetua. Those same scans call Monitor and Anti-Monitor a split from the Overvoid, we now know they are creations of Perpetua made from pieces of the Overvoid. The current storyline makes it clear Perpetua is beyond the Final Crisis characters.

Stops at 9 or 10.