Rank these characters from Pirates of the Caribbean based on how skilled they are with a blade. Use any and all feats/statements from the films or supplementary sources, and feel free to differentiate between iterations spanning across films (like Barbossa in the first 3 movies in comparison to in the 4th film).
(Captain) Jack Sparrow
Will Turner
Hector Barbossa
Davy Jones
Elizabeth Turner
James Norrington
Angelica Teach
Edward Teach/Blackbeard
Armando Salazar
For characters like Salazar and Jones, try to only factor in their skill, and not their supernatural abilities or immortality.
EDIT: I’ve added what I consider some lower-tier fighters to make things more interesting.
Not sure about Salazar. Jack is someone that basically everyone scales close to, and I'm not sure any of these characters are significantly below the rest except for maybe Elizabeth and Blackbeard. Edward struggled some with Barbosa despite him missing a leg, and does Elizabeth scale to anyone particularly?
Jack, Will, and James were all fairly close when they fought in Pirates 2, but Sparrow did end up with the key and the heart. Though, I kinda just figured Barbosa is above James and closer to Jack, but that may not be correct.
Open to suggestions though, not exactly an expert.
@xzone: I probably shouldn’t discuss this much on my own thread, but…screw it, I love PotC, and I feel like I’m probably the only one who’d get the ball rolling.
Elizabeth lost pretty quickly to Davy Jones in At World’s End, but she holds her own against Jones’ crew in Dead Man’s Chest alongside Pintel and Ragetti, showing off some great teamwork by tossing swords to each other in time to intercept attacks. She also said Will taught her how to use a sword, which implies some pretty good training since he’s a top-tier in the verse.
I feel that as much as I love Jack (and personally find him underrated when it comes to dueling), he’s probably the weakest swordsman out of the 3 that were in the Isla Cruces duel. Will already beat him in the 1st film, and together him and Norrington quickly disarm him again in their 3-way duel (though keeping up with 2 opponents of high skill for even a few moments is pretty impressive). From there, Jack is mostly disconnected from the rest of the duel, while James and Will keep going in an even fight on top of the wheel.
Jack and Barbossa fought extremely evenly at the end of CotBP (which I personally think is the best duel in the whole series, but I digress), though a lot of that was due to the fact they were both immortal and thus were incapable of killing each other. Initially Barbossa looked like he had an advantage, but once Jack reveals he’s cursed it honestly seems to shift either in his favor or dead even (pun semi-intended since they aren’t technically dead, lol). Although Barbossa is a complete boss during At World’s End, casually dealing with several opponents while performing a wedding.
Salazar fought an old, drunk, terrified, and honestly pathetic version of Jack who was just waving his sword about like a complete buffoon (I’m never gonna forgive Pirates 5 for butchering his character).
Note however that teh gap between 1-4 is low enough that all of them can match one another pretty well, maybe even Elizabeth too (she's hard to judge).
In an actual fight in an enviroment:
1. Jack/Barbossa
2. Will/James
(rest unchanged in ranking).
The reason i put it like this is because while Will and James have better technical skill than Jack, and will better than even barbossa, in terms of combative skill, Jack is by far the best at controlling opponents and the enviroment. And Barbossa is the only who can keep up with Jack in that perfectly.
Davy Jones?
I find it hard to rank Jones, since technicaly he's a beast. Beating Jack, beating Elizabeth, and beating Will all in short order. However the issue is that by the stipulations here, none of these feats are useable since its hard to judge how much stronger his crab leg is than his regular foot (he oneshotted will by just kicking him), he used his strength to knock around Elizabeth (how do we know whether base Jones could do so), etc. I think Jones might actually be the most skilled (especially in the second category i made), but his style is focused on abusing strength as much as skill, and its hard to tell how strong jones is without his enhanced strength (or maybe he's not enhanced and just is a powerhouse in general).
Prime Jack?
during 1-3.
And no, during stranger tides he's by story and by feats incredibly out of his prime, which is honestly why i put Salazar so low
@cheth: really excellent analysis. As for Jones I might not have made it clear, but I just meant his invulnerability and immortality should be for the most part ignored, along with his phasing/teleportation powers. His physicals, crab appendages, and strength-based style can still be factored in.
Also I’d like to note that Jack was able out-skill him in their duel on the mast, managing to get the key off him AND disarm him of his blade WHILE holding the chest. Jones had to exploit his crab arm to take control again. And he didn’t really beat Will in a straight fight, since Will stabbed him in the back and Jones used that as an opportunity to relieve him of his weapon and keep him in close to land the kick.
Would you say by the 4th that Jack is drastically post-prime? I’m not sure how long after the OT it takes place, but he still seemed pretty spry and skillful. Jack in the 5th is DEFINITELY post-prime however. It was very clear by portrayal and intent (though in my opinion WAY overdone to the point the character was unenjoyable and nigh-unrecognizable).
@cheth: really excellent analysis. As for Jones I might not have made it clear, but I just meant his invulnerability and immortality should be for the most part ignored, along with his phasing/teleportation powers. His physicals, crab appendages, and strength-based style can still be factored in.
Also I’d like to note that Jack was able out-skill him in their duel on the mast, managing to get the key off him AND disarm him of his blade WHILE holding the chest. Jones had to exploit his crab arm to take control again. And he didn’t really beat Will in a straight fight, since Will stabbed him in the back and Jones used that as an opportunity to relieve him of his weapon and keep him in close to land the kick.
Would you say by the 4th that Jack is drastically post-prime? I’m not sure how long after the OT it takes place, but he still seemed pretty spry and skillful. Jack in the 5th is DEFINITELY post-prime however. It was very clear by portrayal and intent (though in my opinion WAY overdone to the point the character was unenjoyable and nigh-unrecognizable).
Thank you!
Ah okay, yeah in the pure skill i'd put Jones roughly Barbossa tier, and in the second category at number 1 (though like barbossa, he shares 1 with jack)
Yeah Jack's performance against Jones always has been one of the best jack performances in the movies, however Jones making the gauntlet of Jack - Elizabeth - Will - Bill is what makes me put him so high (Will kinda was an idiot but that brings me back to the point of the difference in pure skill and actual combat. Jack/Barbossa wouldn't really make the same mistake, and definitively not hold on just to be kicked).
By the 4th Jack is still pretty great, but at that point he still seemed implied equal to Barbossa, who at this point is noticeably post-prime. So I would say Jack is weaker already, but the gap of 4th > 5th is massively bigger than 3rd > 4th. Don't think I would put 5th Jack above Elizabeth even. Not to mention that besides pure skill, Jack's combat skill also is significantly lower (though still decent).
And yeah it was way overdone and completely disrespectful to the character
Will or Barbosa should be first, followed by Norrington and Sparrow. I find it hard to rank Jones as he relies on physical strength and his immortality to fight. A lot of fights he was impaled but recovers and turn the tables on his opponent, the same goes for Salazar. Blackbeard also relies somewhat of his abilities, Elizabeth and Angelica should be below the top 4 and above the super natural people although I do see Jones being up there with Turner or Barbosa even if we discount his immortality
@cheth: I think I can agree with that. The mast fight is probably the highest skill showing in the series in my opinion. Having to balance on a mast, at an angle, over a maelstrom, with rain pouring down in your face and making your already narrow footing slick and slippery is extremely hard. Plus Jack had to hold the chest, which had to have been throwing him off at least a bit.
Interesting you put OST Barbossa = OST Jack. I think it’s obvious Hector declined because of his missing leg, though he still made great use of his crutch in-combat against Teach (still love the scene of Blackbeard mocking him upon snapping it, only to get a face full of wood for his trouble lol). How do you think Angelica would fare against someone like Elizabeth or even OT Jack? She held her own great against OST Jack and even gained an advantage at the end. She even notes to Jack that she “almost killed you once or twice there” which seems to speak well of Jack’s skill (at least in her opinion), or maybe more to his decline because of age.
Yeah, Pirates 5 Jack just waved his sword about like a moron. I definitely wouldn’t put him above Elizabeth. Salazar is hard to place considering he only fights DMTNT Jack, who is definitely the weakest swordsman of anyone here. Salazar did kinda dominate both their fights though.
@a_fine_edition: Yeah, not to mention that Jack outright outdueled someone who's immortal, superhumanly strong and can beat around three others (Will, Bill, Elisabeth) with ease during that (until claw that is)
Yeah Hector ofc declined alot due to the loss of his leg (blackbeard would have been screwed if barbossa was peak), but from how they interact with each other in the movie, it still seems imply that Barbossa is Jack's match.
I do think Jack declined, but Angelica still is impressive yeah. However there are a couple things that lower her for me:
Jack was specifically not wanting to hurt her since he wanted to know who she was (you see him checking his blade repeatedly)
Angelica had the advantage of knowing her opponent well, whereas Jack only found out who she was in the very end
In the end fight of the movie, he was outplaying both her and someone else in a 1v2, despite both being far more aggressive than him (he wants to save her life this entire scenario). So once he lost his rust and knows who he's dealing with he seems to increase in performance alot.
She would hold her won against both OT Jack and Elizabeth (we rarely see stomps in general. Only example i can think of is Jones vs Will/Elisabeth/Bill, or Mr Mercer vs Barbossa). However I think OT Jack would def beat her confidently, and Elizabeth would win in a good fight. While Elizabeth doesn't have many dueling feats, I think by intent/hype, she often is compared to Will (their performance in the maelstrom fight is identical, she got trained by him personally, and he's the best technical duelist), her swordswapping fight against Jones' crew is probably the best squad-busting dueling feats in the movies, and honestly while she lost quite quickly, her performance against Jones still is highly impressive to me (she seemed to lose mainly because he's so physically strong each hit just threw her backwards lol).
Jack in 5th I would put below Angelica and Mr Mercer frankly. And the thing with Salazar is that while he stomped their first fight (being intangible), he actually had a lot less of a confident win in their final duel. He possessed someone jack didn't want to hurt at all (salazar outright mentions he's using it against him), and still Jack managed to get a punch in and hold his own in a longer fight. Thats why personally, I think Salazar is one of the worst actual fighters once his intangiability is gone. Probably on the level of Mr Mercer.
@cheth: I’m interested that you hold Mercer so low. He doesn’t have a lot of feats, but he did manage to score a hit on Barbossa in AWE before fleeing the battle. And he killed both of the Empress Twins (though one of them was a headshot, the other seems to have gotten in close and stabbed him before he seemingly overpowered and shot her). I do think he’s not top tier, but he seemed capable enough.
I forgot how impressive Elizabeth was in DMC. She was taking on like half of Jones’ crew, most of the time on her own. It also makes Pintel and Ragetti pretty respectable considering they held their own alongside her well enough, even trading blades when needed.
Also not sure what “checking his blade” means. Would you mind elaborating? Is that a term in dueling? I will say he probably was holding back against Angelica, and it’s interesting you note his 2v1 against her and Scrum. Scrum is pretty fodder though.
I kinda forgot about that second fight with Salazar to be honest. I can never find a good quality clip of it anywhere. I do remember “you cut me you cut the boy, Jack” which honestly makes Salazar look even less impressive considering he’s counting on Jack (who’s super low-tier by this point) not being able to hurt him in a serious manner.
Out of curiosity, do you think there’s anyone notable I’m missing from the list? Maybe Sao Feng?
@cheth: I’m interested that you hold Mercer so low. He doesn’t have a lot of feats, but he did manage to score a hit on Barbossa in AWE before fleeing the battle. And he killed both of the Empress Twins (though one of them was a headshot, the other seems to have gotten in close and stabbed him before he seemingly overpowered and shot her). I do think he’s not top tier, but he seemed capable enough.
I forgot how impressive Elizabeth was in DMC. She was taking on like half of Jones’ crew, most of the time on her own. It also makes Pintel and Ragetti pretty respectable considering they held their own alongside her well enough, even trading blades when needed.
Also not sure what “checking his blade” means. Would you mind elaborating? Is that a term in dueling? I will say he probably was holding back against Angelica, and it’s interesting you note his 2v1 against her and Scrum. Scrum is pretty fodder though.
I kinda forgot about that second fight with Salazar to be honest. I can never find a good quality clip of it anywhere. I do remember “you cut me you cut the boy, Jack” which honestly makes Salazar look even less impressive considering he’s counting on Jack (who’s super low-tier by this point) not being able to hurt him in a serious manner.
Out of curiosity, do you think there’s anyone notable I’m missing from the list? Maybe Sao Feng?
Oh I don't hold him low at all (or well comparatively i guess i do). I think its important to note that everyone listed here is a badass who can solo groups of trained soldiers/pirates at once. Mercer is one of the weakest of the big names, but he's still far above fodder. Which is why I put him on Salazar's skill tier: they can give a decent fight to the top-tiers for a short while before losing (he scored a hit on barbossa, but it was a hail mary that gave time to run, not really a showing of him being comparable). Whereas Elisabeth I could see winning a fight against the top tiers under the right circumstances. Angelica is kind of between "can't win at all" and "could possibly win depending" for me, not sure. And yeah he is def implied to have killed the second twin in melee
Yeah Pintel, Ragetti, and the rest who remain from the first movie (like Biggs) are underrated fighters. Another part of this that is impressive for Elisabeth is that she is extremely confident she could solo Pintel and Ragetti until she realised Will took her sword.
With "checking" I mean he could stab her but doesn't. Often they specifically stop in that stance for a second to make it clear he could. I would say Scrum is kind of "elite" fodder akin to Pintel and Ragetti
Yeah its impossible to find a good clip, perhaps because noone cares to watch it lmfao. But yeah that fight, in which jack actually holds his own despite those circumstances, makes Salazar look not so good lol.
Honestly the only remaining possible big names are Mercer and the Spaniard. Sao Feng doesn't really have feats or much hype (except barbossa saying they're alike only feng doesn't have his manners, but thats eeeh)
@cheth: That makes more sense. Mercer did get kicked right in the balls right before that too, so that probably speaks to Barbossa’s superiority more than anything else. I forgot about Gibbs. Should’ve included more low-tier fighters to make things more interesting. Maybe Gillete and Groves or some of the cursed crew from the first film. Hell, even Bootstrap or some of Jones’ men.
Now I can remember what you mean. I specifically remember Jack pointing his blade at her, only for her to step on his foot and break away. Scrum is elite fodder, but probably the most fodder of that group. I’d see Gibbs and either Pintel or Ragetti taking him with minimal difficulty.
I don’t really recall the Spaniard having too much hype, although he had the guts to face down Blackbeard. Then again, that guy was just a major chad anyway. But I wouldn’t say he was more hyped than Sao Feng or anything. Feng also has the Pirate Lord title, which at least implies some prowess and experience.
Will is > Jack but Jack wins due to his intelligence in a actual fight.
Jack already beat Davy in a sword fight and cut his tentacles which is equal to his throat in his human form. which means Davy would die if he wasn't immortal. This also happened when Davy has stat and hax advantage.
James put a fight to Will & Sparrow, prolly better than Davy but Davy lasted longer and actually scared Sparrow.
Angela is better than his father, since she actually put a good fight against Sparrow. interchangable with James.
Blackbeard beat POTC 4 Barbossa, but Barbossa cheated with posionus sword. Therefore Edward > Barbossa.
@cheth: That makes more sense. Mercer did get kicked right in the balls right before that too, so that probably speaks to Barbossa’s superiority more than anything else. I forgot about Gibbs. Should’ve included more low-tier fighters to make things more interesting. Maybe Gillete and Groves or some of the cursed crew from the first film. Hell, even Bootstrap or some of Jones’ men.
Now I can remember what you mean. I specifically remember Jack pointing his blade at her, only for her to step on his foot and break away. Scrum is elite fodder, but probably the most fodder of that group. I’d see Gibbs and either Pintel or Ragetti taking him with minimal difficulty.
I don’t really recall the Spaniard having too much hype, although he had the guts to face down Blackbeard. Then again, that guy was just a major chad anyway. But I wouldn’t say he was more hyped than Sao Feng or anything. Feng also has the Pirate Lord title, which at least implies some prowess and experience.
Yeah so Mercer is the bottom of the top tiers imo, which is also where I'd likely put Salazar. Could be fun with a low-tier list as well
Yeah exactly. And yeah I would put Scrum as lesser than the recurring pearl crew members, though still elite fodder at least
the Spaniard did have some hype here and there, in part it was just his army but stuff like being willing to face off Blackbeard for example is decent hype. Although no feats to prove it, i would likely put him at Salazar's level minimum.
1. Captain Jack Sparrow. Jask is surprisingly the best duelist, despite what his body and first impression you get from him.
He has kept up with most of the people here and out-duels some of them. And even kept up with a High-Tier like Davy Jones when the ship was in the middle of a deadly storm + holding the heavy Dead Man's Chest. And still kept his balance.
In their three way fight, and after being unbalanced by Will Turner who was playing dirty, Jack still recovers fast enough, steals the key from Will, and turns around fast enough to block a swing from him:
And that's a non-serious Jack at that moment in the fight.
Is seen in the distance dealing with both Will & The Former Captain (I forgot his name) at the same time, and even out-maneuvering them:
Both of them were focused on him because he had the key.
After blocking two swings from the former captain what's his face and getting tripped, he recovered quickly and almost tags Will:
He easily keeps up and out-maneuvered both of them, again, and steals the key as well as dodge a swing from Will:
After running for a good distance, which should've chipped away at his stamina, he easily outduels Captain what's his face after three clashes:
Again, he manages to keep up with both Will & Captain What's his face for a while before getting disarmed due to great teamwork:
The Duo were working as a damn near perfect team. Which is what they had to do to just disarm a Jack who wasn't trying to kill either. While Captain Cuck was actually pissed off wanted to kill Jack.
Dodges a swing from Captain "I got cucked by Legolas" and tanks this jump from high up with 0 damage, while showing some nice agility:
Tanked this:
And then proceeded to keep up with Will Turner in a completely balanced environment, and even pushes Captain Cuck away:
He keeps up with Will casually, before stealing the key and dodging another swing from him:
And all of the above isn't even a serious Jack.
Jack shows nice agility and balance as he lands on a platform with limited mobility, AFTER flying high up at quite the fast speed:
Keeps up with someone who has probably the highest strength stat in the series with Davy Jones, despite the disadvantage in the location:
And another thing to note is that Davy himself doesn't suffer any problems with the location, while Jack does.
Still keeps up with him and even matched him is a strength clash:
Davy kicks the chest in an attempt to unbalance Jack and cause him to make a mistake:
It doesn't work.
Matches Davy in a strength clash, out-duels, and tags him, despite all of the advantages against Jack:
Dodges an attack from a pissed off Davy, disarms him, tags him again, thus causing Davy to abuse his Claw hand to break Jack's sword:
And there's more. But I don't have enough time to get more to it.
Anyway, Jack is definitely number 1 in his verse when it comes to skill and feats.
2. Barbossa. This bad daddy has proven that he can keep up and press Jack in a serious fight. And even tag him. So he's definitely second when it comes to pure skill.
3. Will Turner. Will is an amazing fighter who has proven that he can keep up with many skilled duelist like non-serious Jack. And has proven that when it comes to combat, he is quite intelligent and fast.
4. Davy Jones. Davy has proven himself to be a challenge for serious Jack. The reason I put him below Will is because doing as well as he did against Jack was also due to his stats playing a part. So in pure skill, I put Will above him slightly.
5. James Norrington. Yes, I just looked up his name. Listen, I might've made fun of the guy by calling him Captain Cuck, etc. But he's actually quite skilled. His showings in the three way fight was quite impressive. Even if he's not the best, he's still pretty skilled and when he goes all-oit, he's capable of contending with Will. And him + Will can disarm Jack, albeit a non-serious version.
6. Angelica Teach. Angelica showed that she can keep up decently with a pissed off Jack, although, that was due to her having a few advantages in her fight.
7. Elizabeth. This lady has proven that she's quite a decently skilled duelist. She may not be capable of beating the people above. But she can put up some sort of a fight.
8. Salazar. Salazar proved that he can clash and have Jack on the defensive for a bit, although that might've been due him doing so via a surprise attack + his stats. We don't have many skill showings for him. So I put him below Elizabeth in pure skills.
9. Edward Teach. I don't remember Teachy-boi doing much impressive stuff. And I don't have enough time to look up stuff about him. I might come back to this later.
Not sure about Salazar. Jack is someone that basically everyone scales close to, and I'm not sure any of these characters are significantly below the rest except for maybe Elizabeth and Blackbeard. Edward struggled some with Barbosa despite him missing a leg, and does Elizabeth scale to anyone particularly?
Jack, Will, and James were all fairly close when they fought in Pirates 2, but Sparrow did end up with the key and the heart. Though, I kinda just figured Barbosa is above James and closer to Jack, but that may not be correct.
Open to suggestions though, not exactly an expert.
Your list is a'ight.
Although, Davy should be > James. Since a non-serious Jack quickly disarmed him without someone else to focus on:
While a serious Jack had to put effort against Davy:
Jack shows nice agility and balance as he lands on a platform with limited mobility, AFTER flying high up at quite the fast speed:
Keeps up with someone who has probably the highest strength stat in the series with Davy Jones, despite the disadvantage in the location:
And another thing to note is that Davy himself doesn't suffer any problems with the location, while Jack does.
Still keeps up with him and even matched him is a strength clash:
Davy kicks the chest in an attempt to unbalance Jack and cause him to make a mistake:
It doesn't work.
Matches Davy in a strength clash, out-duels, and tags him, despite all of the advantages against Jack:
Dodges an attack from a pissed off Davy, disarms him, tags him again, thus causing Davy to abuse his Claw hand to break Jack's sword:
Which puts Davy up there with Will & Barbossa by feats and scaling to a serious Jack.
I'm surprised so many of you hold Will & Norrington at the top, when Jack should be above them due to shown skills and feats:
In their three way fight, and after being unbalanced by Will Turner who was playing dirty, Jack still recovers fast enough, steals the key from Will, and turns around fast enough to block a swing from him:
And that's a non-serious Jack at that moment in the fight.
Is seen in the distance dealing with both Will & The Former Captain (I forgot his name) at the same time, and even out-maneuvering them:
Both of them were focused on him because he had the key.
After blocking two swings from the former captain what's his face and getting tripped, he recovered quickly and almost tags Will:
He easily keeps up and out-maneuvered both of them, again, and steals the key as well as dodge a swing from Will:
After running for a good distance, which should've chipped away at his stamina, he easily outduels Captain what's his face after three clashes:
Again, he manages to keep up with both Will & Captain What's his face for a while before getting disarmed due to great teamwork:
The Duo were working as a damn near perfect team. Which is what they had to do to just disarm a Jack who wasn't trying to kill either. While Captain Cuck was actually pissed off wanted to kill Jack.
Dodges a swing from Captain "I got cucked by Legolas" and tanks this jump from high up with 0 damage, while showing some nice agility:
Tanked this:
And then proceeded to keep up with Will Turner in a completely balanced environment, and even pushes Captain Cuck away:
He keeps up with Will casually, before stealing the key and dodging another swing from him:
And all of the above isn't even a serious Jack.
So a Jack who isn't even going for the kill against either, and mainly trying to get the key. Can keep up with a serious Will & Norrington. Both of whom were going all-out to get the key for themselves.
And that's ignoring the things he tanked in that fight. Which should've affected him physically. While the other two didn't have to tank any damage like he did.
And then there's his fight with Davy & Barbossa. The former of which I also went through in post #23.
@cryolancer47: thanks for commenting (although I will not tolerate the Norrington slander lol). I feel that you’re kind of over-selling Jack a bit. You mention him casually or easily performing feats like “disarming” Norrington, but all he did was kick him backward and continue up the stairs. Norrington was back on him in a matter of moments and even trips Jack before out-muscling and stealing the key from him. As for the stamina points, all 3 of them had been participating in the duel and were all trading blows and chasing Jack around, so they’d be just as tired as him. While it’s possible he’s not trying to kill, he has pretty loose morals, and he’s hardly ever all that serious. Although I will agree he has some great durability. The stuff he tanked throughout DMC is ludicrous, (especially compared to other people in his verse).
You mention him casually or easily performing feats like “disarming” Norrington, but all he did was kick him backward and continue up the stairs.
I actually meant to say outduels him instead of disarm:
Since Jack quickly created an opening to kick him when no one extra was there to mix it up for them and add a distraction.
That puts his pure skill in dueling > Norrington due to how quick he did it.
My bad for the confusion.
Norrington was back on him in a matter of moments and even trips Jack before out-muscling and stealing the key from him.
1. Of course Norrington got back quickly. Jack didn't really do anything to him physically that would hurt him much, if at all. He just out-duels him and goes up the stairs.
2. Norry-boi tripping Jack and then grabbing him isn't a skill accomplishment, since it was done on a Jack who was already mid-run, and Norrington played dirty by grabbing Jack in the middle of a clash, when Jack wasn't really prepared for it, and just recovered from his fall:
So it doesn't disprove Jack being > Him in pure skills.
As for the stamina points, all 3 of them had been participating in the duel and were all trading blows and chasing Jack around, so they’d be just as tired as him.
1. Not exactly. Will didn't take any damage and wasn't there when Jack & Norrington got there first and when they started fighting. So both would be more affected than him when he arrived.
2. And then you have Jack tanking the windmill and the building jump. Which is far above a punch or anything the other two tanked during the fight on-screen.
While it’s possible he’s not trying to kill, he has pretty loose morals, and he’s hardly ever all that serious.
Jack definitely held back by his actions during this fight. His main objective was the key. While Norrington was actually petty enough and wanted to kill both him and Will. While Will was serious and wanted to get the key and save his dad.
And he wouldn't kill Will (that rhymed) whom he actually cares about.
And we see what a serious Jack is like during the Davy Jones & the Barbossa fight in The Curse of The Black Pearl. He acts calm. Is less jokey. And shows a higher level of agility, focus, and combat Prowess than what he showed in the three way fight with Will & Norrington.
Where he's more sloppy. Less focused. And more jokey, when compared to Jack during the Barbossa & Davy fights.
Although I will agree he has some great durability. The stuff he tanked throughout DMC is ludicrous, (especially compared to other people in his verse).
Yeah. Jack might have Toon Force on his side at some points.
He's damn near Mr. Bean levels of "How is he unharmed through all of this?!" Type of BS, when compared to the rest of the verse.
@cryolancer47: no worries. I would like to note that Will did get tagged in the leg by Jack‘s blade earlier in the fight, right before he snatches the key back and takes off running. Then Norrington threw him to the ground and kicked sand in his face. At the very least he had a minor cut.
Also, found this extended cut of the fight on the beach and thought I’d see what your thoughts were on it (sorry it’s lower quality. I remember there being a better quality clip of it in a compilation of deleted scenes, but for whatever reason it doesn’t seem to be up anymore).
Not that it’s totally canon, but I really wish they’d kept it in. Honestly that’s my major gripe with the series as a whole. They had so much quality content they had to cut for time that I wish it could all be compiled into extended editions.
The deleted scene actually reinforces what I said about Jack being > them in skill.
I would like to note that Will did get tagged in the leg by Jack‘a blade earlier in the fight, right before he snatches the key back and takes off running.
Did that actually happen? I really don't remember that bit. I thought he managed to get away before being tagged by Jack. And he doesn't appear to be injured.
We see him keeping up with both Will & Norrington. And even blocking blows from the two of them back to back. He even out-duels one of them and almost makes him trip:
A running Jack turns around and duels with Norrington without issue:
Jack keeps up with both Will & Norrington who were focused on him because he had the Key:
He then distracts and overpowers them in their blade lock, before immediately blocking strikes from both, and casually catching the key once it becomes within arms reach:
And then he reacts to, and dodges a swing from a serious Will. Who was already pissed at him due to the ordeal with Davy Jones:
All of the above supports his superiority to them in skill and combat.
Not that it’s totally canon, but I really wish they’d kept it in. Honestly that’s my major gripe with the series as a whole. They had so much quality content they had to cut for time that I wish it could all be compiled into extended editions.
Agreed. The extended scenes make the duel even better, imo.
@cryolancer47: couldn’t agree more. It’s really well-choreographed and there’s even some great dialogue. That whole “you can mistrust me” and “pot, kettle, black” exchange was hilarious.
In the official cut Jack ducks under both Norrington and Will as they clash, then hits Will in the leg. There’s even a shot of Will seemingly reeling a bit from the strike, before it cuts to Jack snatching the key back from him and running away from the beach and towards the jungle. I might’ve phrased it oddly, sorry about that. The scene is still in the extended cut but it happens earlier, before they do that (awesome) blade/key lock thing.
Any thoughts on the new additions to the list of fighters?
Will is > Jack but Jack wins due to his intelligence in a actual fight.
Jack already beat Davy in a sword fight and cut his tentacles which is equal to his throat in his human form. which means Davy would die if he wasn't immortal. This also happened when Davy has stat and hax advantage.
James put a fight to Will & Sparrow, prolly better than Davy but Davy lasted longer and actually scared Sparrow.
Angela is better than his father, since she actually put a good fight against Sparrow. interchangable with James.
Blackbeard beat POTC 4 Barbossa, but Barbossa cheated with posionus sword. Therefore Edward > Barbossa.
Elizabeth Turner has only feats against fodders.
Elizabeth fought Jones briefly before losing, and beating lots of fodder is still pretty good for her. She also had training from Will and kept up with him during the maelstrom duel.
Note however that teh gap between 1-4 is low enough that all of them can match one another pretty well, maybe even Elizabeth too (she's hard to judge).
In an actual fight in an enviroment:
1. Jack/Barbossa
2. Will/James
(rest unchanged in ranking).
The reason i put it like this is because while Will and James have better technical skill than Jack, and will better than even barbossa, in terms of combative skill, Jack is by far the best at controlling opponents and the enviroment. And Barbossa is the only who can keep up with Jack in that perfectly.
Davy Jones?
I find it hard to rank Jones, since technicaly he's a beast. Beating Jack, beating Elizabeth, and beating Will all in short order. However the issue is that by the stipulations here, none of these feats are useable since its hard to judge how much stronger his crab leg is than his regular foot (he oneshotted will by just kicking him), he used his strength to knock around Elizabeth (how do we know whether base Jones could do so), etc. I think Jones might actually be the most skilled (especially in the second category i made), but his style is focused on abusing strength as much as skill, and its hard to tell how strong jones is without his enhanced strength (or maybe he's not enhanced and just is a powerhouse in general).
Prime Jack?
during 1-3.
And no, during stranger tides he's by story and by feats incredibly out of his prime, which is honestly why i put Salazar so low
(1-7 here)
Spaniard: Implied to be a match for Blackbeard (so > Salazar)
Mr Mercer: Managed to tag Barbossa once, and killed one of the Empress twins in melee
(Salazar)
Sao Feng: Placing him here purely because he's a pirate lord. Would roughly put him on the level of Salazar
Bo'Sun: Second in command of Barbossa and clearly implied to be the second-greatest of his crew bar Barbossa himself.
Gilette: Survived a 1v1 against Bo'sun for the majority of the battle (and never forget, he was one of the first to start fighting against the undead pirates)
Koehler: While he did have the advantage of immortality, we still see him matching Norrington without being tagged for a while
Gibbs: Likely the best of Jack's crew, though doesn't have many feats
Pintel and Ragetti: Really good at killing and fighting fodder, even fighting of davy jones crewmembers. Should be inferior to Koehler and Bo'sun though
Bootstrap Bill: Managed for a time to distract Davy Jones, and held his own against Will (even though he heavily held back and still won).
Groves: stalemated Quartermaster for the entire PoC 4 battle despite Quartermaster's immortality.
Gunner: While a stomp gap below Jack (poc 4), he still vastly outperformed Quartermaster (got beaten in a few seconds despite being a zombie), who at one point was fighting three fodders at once.
Quartermaster: Held his own against three fodders at once.
Scrum: should be below the zombies, but still capable of efficiently beating fodder 1v1.
@cheth: did Gillete really fight the Bo’sun for that long? I remember him throwing a part of the rigging at him only for him to dodge. If anything I might put Groves over him due to him surviving longer during the fight at the Fountain. I’d also rank the zombie Quartermaster a little higher. Although the zombie Gunner actually managed to pressure OST Jack for a bit.
@cheth: did Gillete really fight the Bo’sun for that long? I remember him throwing a part of the rigging at him only for him to dodge. If anything I might put Groves over him due to him surviving longer during the fight at the Fountain. I’d also rank the zombie Quartermaster a little higher. Although the zombie Gunner actually managed to pressure OST Jack for a bit.
Bo'sun chased after him after he threw it, indicating that it was not the full fight between them. Bo'sun is also >>> Quartermaster
Not sure i can put Quartermaster higher tbh. He was stomped by Jack whereas gunner did decent
That is way too many people for me to rank in one sitting, especially considering it's been a while since I've seen the PotC movies (and given that I only especially like the first one I have little incentive to rewatch the others except to see Penelope Cruz again).
With that said, I will argue that many of these characters are actually even with each-other, for the simple reason that they all dueled evenly with the exact same foe: Jack. Much as Jack Sparrow is popular, I'd actually argue he isn't THAT great of a swordsman. Will, Norrington, Barbossa, Angelica, and Davy Jones have all dueled evenly with him. Honestly, I struggle to think of a single sword-fight that Jack won legitimately rather than it being an even draw or, in Will's case, winning by exploiting the environment (or "cheating" as Will put it ;)). Jack just seems to be the guy that everyone is always stalemating.
Blackbeard should honestly be at or near the bottom unless he has accolades I don't know about. He may have one of the coolest looking swords in the setting, but I don't recall him swordfighting even once in the entire movie. Same goes for the Spaniard. He also has no dueling feats (that I can recall).
Log in to comment