Post-Crisis Darkseid vs Death Seed Sentry.

DS if he's not jobbing.

DSS is pretty much immune to damage so idk what to say.

I was thinking the same thing pretty much. However I doubt DSS has the power to keep Darkseid down (haven't seen anything that convinced me but I can be convinced) and Darkseid has other ways to take somebody out without actually hurting them

Darkseid.

Sentry 1-shot Molecule-man soooo theres that, and the Death Seed just amps him further now he is immune to damage so i'm not sure how he loses.

lol Sentry didn't 'one-shot' Molecule man. Also the writer of that story himself said all because he was able to do what he did to MM doesn't mean he anywhere near that same level. DSS isn't immune to damage, he's immune to pain at the level of what he's encountered. big difference

Sentry is a character that has trouble fighting people like Blue Marvel and a holding back World War Hulk, both of which aren't even on Superman's level. Darkseid has ways of taking people out without actually 'hurting them'. Just like I said I could be convinced, but weak arguments aren't going to cut it

Sentry disassembled Molecule Man so that Doom had to gather the pieces to put him back together. I'll call that a "1-shot". The Death Seed prevents the user from dying. Thor beat on him and he took no damage. Thor blasted him and he took no damage. DSS is the strongest version of Sentry because he has molecular manipulation and he can't die.

All I was saying is that all because Sentry did that to Molecule Man doesn't put him anywhere near MM's level, even the writer himself backed that up. Also, DSS did take physical damage, he just didn't feel any pain. When I say damage I mean this

While I completely agree that DS will not ever really kill him, DSS cannot kill DS either because he's a necessary evil and the universe/God/the writers will not allow him to die. However, if we're talking physicals Darkseid has shown feats that are waaayyyy above things I've seen from DSS.

I never said Sentry > Molecule Man. I said "Sentry 1-shot Molecule Man". Molecule Man has only been "1-shot" once, and the fact that Sentry did it with molecular manipulation is proof of his power. The "physical damage" you are talking about is irrelevant because he can't die.

I was just clearing it out before you or anybody else would try to say he's superior to MM. I was also clearing up the difference between taking damage and feeling no pain. Just so we're on the same page: DSS getting his faces smushed by Thor's hammer means he takes damage, the fact that he walked it off like it was nothing is clear proof he feels no pain, right?

Sentry has been killed before, and yes he has. Sentry was in-fact dissembled by Molecule-Man himself. He then willed himself back together and proceed to 1-shot Molecule-Man.

Yeah, Sentry has incredible Regenerative abilities, but just like I showed you so does Darkseid. Darkseid was destroyed by Specter yet he just came back like it was nothing. Both can pretty much come back from anything, only difference is Darkseid is vastly superior stats wise, and he has the Omega Sanction that can take DSS out without killing him.

Sentry has molecular manipulation. Unless Darkseid can resist his molecules being manipulated he cant win. Are you saying he can BFR Sentry? That is the only possible way he can win.

feats of DSS using Matter Manipulation in a fight to actually harm someone? Darkseid has literally countless of ways to take DSS out. He can place his soul in a marble like he did to Cyborg Superman, he can BFR him into the future like he did to Slobo, can trap him in the Omega Sanction, and so much more.

Neither of these dudes can actually die, so it comes down to who can take the other out with different powers. and the fact of the matter is Darkseid has a lot more powers at his will that he's willing to use.

I say "Immune to damage" because he had molecular manipulation above PR Molecule-Man, and with the Death Seed he can't die. He really can't take "damage" he can assemble his body at will. It makes no difference if he blocks or not. He literally didn't bother blocking anymore after he had the Death Seed.

this is exactly what I was trying to clear out, he isn't above Molecule Man, even the writers said it.

What do you mean feats lol? He 1-shot molecule-man. PR-Molecule Man was presumed dead until Doom brought him back. He demonstrated his superior ability to control molecules. PR Molecule-Man still stomps out a good portion of Marvel Characters, however at the end of the day he was inferior to Sentry in Manipulation because he wasn't able to will himself back together(unlike Sentry).

when I say feats, I'm asking if you can show any feats of DSS in character using his Molecular Manipulation on his enemy when it isn't his only option. I ask for this because in this fight DSS is clearly out matched stat wise, and Molec.Manip is his only way to win (I'm pretty sure Darkseid has Molecule Manipulation resistant feats but I can't find any scans so I'll let it go because I really don't care lol) while on the other hand when Darkseid sees an opponent who isn't worth his time he'll simply use one of his powers just to get rid of him. Sentry willed himself back together due to his incredibly powerful regen powers, MM doesn't have that.

I don't know what you mean "above", But canonically Sentry defeated Molecule-Man 1 vs 1 with his own power. Whatever power chart you use doesn't change the fact that Sentry's manipulation is clearly comparable to Molecule-Man.

When I say 'above' I mean all because Sentry defeated MM doesn't mean he's just as powerful and can do everything MM can do with Molecular Manipulation. That's called ABC logic and that's exactly what the writer said isn't applicable.

He defeated MM because he was able to regenerate from anything MM could do to him, but MM couldn't regenerate from what Sentry did to MM.

Uxas stomps. Matter manipulation isn't even a factor.

@deathbyants: When Owen lost to Bob he was weak. He was a city level matter manipulator. Darkseid beat Firestorm by separating the Firestorm matrix from Professor Stein, who is a far superior matter manipulator than weakened Owen. Not to mentioned the advantages Uxas has in stats, soul manipulation, Omega beams and so on. Death Seed Sentry has uber healing that can keep him from dying, but there are other ways to win for Darkseid.

Darkseid. Can't believe people still think the Molecule Man fight was a legit feat for him.

@deathbyants:

How "weak" Molecule-Man was unknown. He was still a threat to the Universe the instant he was brought back.

We know that his greatest feat was city level matter manipulation, so we go by that. Obviously, he wasn't close to universal in this instance.

It really comes down to can Darkseid tank through manipulation and BFR Sentry. He can't die so he has to be BFR'd.

Well, obviously he can BFR Sentry. He has BFRed people across space as well as time. Why would he need to tank matter manipulation when he can manipulate matter himself? BFR isn't the only option, he can trap his soul or KO Sentry. Sentry can't die, but he can still be KOed.

The only thing that matters for this fight is that Sentry has proven to have molecular manipulation to a degree that is effective against a character as powerful as molecule man. DSS is that exact same man only now he cannot die. There is no reason DSS cannot use manipulation directly from the start especially considering bloodlust is on.

I've already explained to you why his Molecular Manipulation means almost nothing, but if you're not willing to accept that you're wrong there's no helping you.

Well then he wins. I knew Darkseid was powerful but I thought PC Darkseid was a nerfed version of himself.

@deathbyants: lol quoting one post that agrees with you. have you read literally every other post?