Portgas D Ace vs Donquixote Doflamingo

Pre skip versions of both (obviously).

Fight takes place at Marineford.

Bonus Round

Current Doffy vs Ace and Marineford Luffy

bump

From what I hear, Doffy is stronger and can use haki.

Did Doflamingo even have haki pretimeskip?

marineford luffy is fodder and dosent add anything in R2

R1 doffy should win also anyone who was any1 knew haki

@enemybird: Even ignoring all the flashback that explained his story where he has it, how could he be a massive boss of crime on the new world without it?

Of course he had it... why would he learn it in the same time of the strawhat when he has tons of more experience in everything?

On topic Doffy wrecks in a mismatch.

Doffy one shots mismatch

What flashback are you talking about?

Doffy easily both rounds

@enemybird: The one were he meets trebol. He explains haki to Doffy.

Btw even ignoring that, it has no sense to think Doffy didn't know how to use it.

He doesn't have feats using armament haki or observation from what I am aware. But from flashbacks we are aware of him being able to consciously use Conquerers haki before then. There is really no reason to assume he didn't have it

For the sake of argument, let assume they both use armament Haki. How is this a stomp for Doffy if we're talking about pre timeskip feats only?

@enemybird: Parasite string.

Bonus round is still a stomp.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think he wasn't able to use it?

Ace's feats pre-time skip are just as good as Doflamingo's. A parasite string isnt going to stomp Ace are you kidding me?

I never said whether I thought he did or not. I simply asked if it was confirmed. oh and btw... I was referring to armament Haki. I knew that both Doffy and Ace used conquerors Haki as children.

@enemybird:

Yeah it's going to stomp him. What's Ace going to do about it? No amount of scaling and assumptions can save him.

So you think that someone explain and teach Doffy how to use conqueror haki, but wait until time skip to teach him the other two forms?

Again.... I never said whether I thought he did or not. I simply asked if it was confirmed.

Let me ask you this. How do you determine who the parasite string will work on? Will it work on the admirals ? how about the Yonko? Jack the drought? Katakuri? Ace is extremely is high tier.

@enemybird:

Logic confirms it, under any form.

Lol @Ace extremely high tier.

For it to not work you must:

-Be faster than it (knowledge is necessary without precog).

-Have really, really good precog.

-Both above.

-Being strong enough to break it.

Ace can't do any of these and he isn't even an high tier....

Not to mention, we've seen it failing against Issho, so don't make it look like I'm saying he can defeat anyone.

Doffy stomps here, no way around it.

Doffy. Mismatch

Doffy stomps.

The son of the pirate king and 2nd division commander of a Yonko crew doesn't have haki? Curbstomp?! Come on fellas...

I know Doffy has more showings due to his fight vs Luffy but lets think about this; In this scenario Ace has armament haki because there's no doubt in my mind he can use it.

Ace DF with or without haki is too powerful for Doffy to handle. Ace was able to overpower Aokiji's Pheasant Beak attack. The same Aokiji who Doffy didn't even bother to fight because he wants to live another day. Doffy lost to Luffy and Luffy is not at that level where he can take on Ace yet. Ace went up against Blackbeard, fought well and showed monstrous strength even without his logia abilities as stated by Van Auger. Yes Ace has less panel feats than Doffy but using common sense and proper scaling, it should be obvious that Doffy cannot defeat Ace.

Doffy although I believe Ace could keep him back for a minute using flame AoE, Doffy has the CoA so yeah not much Ace can do about that..

Doffy rekt

@back_stabbath95:

Like I said, you think the 2nd Division Commander of the great Whitebeard would not be able to use CoA? Let's assume he didn't even still his powers would be too much for Doffy to handle.

@madrid_san: he didn't have Haki, that's why when him and smoker fought in alabaster they weren't able to harm each other because neither of them had haki.

Logic would permit Ace having CoA however he neverrrr showed it and as skrskr says then why did Ace tell Smoker he can stalemate him forever when if he had haki he could of touched him( are you going to say to stall Smoker so SHs can escape?). One would guess that a Yonkou commander could use it but maybe he was still a rookie with a really strong DF

Exactly lmao he NEVER used Haki so no Ace cannot use it, he gets stomped

@enemybird what makes you think Ace is extremely high tier? Just wondering. I mean maybe around the period he was introduced perhaps in comparison to the people we knew of and has fought I guess he could be but after that im not seeing it

Doflamingo easily

Ace is high tier dude. he is a Yonko Commander for the strongest pirate crew in the one piece verse.

So you're willing to say Doffy has all forms of Haki based on a single showing of kings haki as a child but not willing to do the same for Ace? You're not making any sense right now.

Doffy doesn't stomp.

Wouldnt that also mean Doffy didnt have haki because he couldnt harm Crocodile?

@enemybird: Based on actual showings, Doflamingo has Conqueror's Haki, Observation Haki and Armament Haki and also based on showings, Ace only has Conqueror's Haki

Given what he said against Smoker, Ace doesn't know armament Haki

@enemybird:

Ace isn't even close to an actual high tier. Title means nothing if he loses against everyone named but Smoker. No amount of assumption will help him here, especially considering that Doffy stomped someone with the same title.

Yeah. Because someone thought him....I'm sure Trebol didn't bother explaining him conqueror haki and wait until the time skip to teach him the rest...LOL

As far as we know, Ace doesn't now Haki, if not why didn't he use it against Smoker?

Doffy stomps, even when nerfed.

@enemybird: if he never showed it then yeah we couldn't say he his haki just because he is powerful. Although there was context to that scene since he was trying to talk to crocodile still which would be why he didn't use it, thankfully we have instances of him using it now.

The OP says this is pre time skip versions for both. We didnt see doffy use armament haki until after the timeskip. Ace didnt use it on Smoker and Doffy didnt use it on crocodile.

Doffy.

@kamishini said:

Youre wrong. the Title means something. If you can give me an example of a "weak /low tier" yonko commander ...then the title means nothing. The title of yonko commander is consistent in the verse with high tier characters. #Facts

Doflamingo didn't stomp Jozu if that's what you're talking about. He used a parasite string on him while he was charging crocodile. thats a strech and you know it.

Jack, Smoothie, Katakuri, Marco, BB, Cracker, Jozu, etc... these are all high tier characters. To say Ace is somehow an outlier with zero evidence is just bizarre to me. Neither Ace nor Doflamingo are confirmed observation/ armament haki users pre timeskip. You're assuming Trebol taught him the other forms of haki which is just nonsense. If you assume Doflamingo has armament haki with no showings, then I can assume Ace has observation haki with no showings. In which case your stomp scenario falls apart.

@enemybird: Okay, I guess Trebol waited 30 years to teach him haki.... seems legit. LOL

Doffy while playing >>>>Jozu who has the same title of Ace and better feat.

Saying that Ace is an actual high tier mean going against his feats.

Doffy doesn't even need to win, thing he has unless you absolutely lack logic, parasite is enough to stomp.

@kamishini said:

You're overstating the facts here. Its true that Doflamingo held Jozu in place with his strings BUUUTTT Jozu was not paying attention to Doflamingo. That's the context that you conveniently keep leaving out. Thats not a stomp. no way no how.

Example... Squard attacked WB while he wasn't paying attention and stabbed him in the chest. If WB knew the attack was coming, Sward would've been stomped PERIOD. But if I left the context out, it would be misleading to simply say Squard stomped WB by stabbing him in the chest... nearly one shotting him. Thats what youre doing right now and its lame.

What feats did Doflamingo have pretime skip that puts him over Ace in your mind? Holding back a distracted jozu or chopping off Oar jr's foot? I'm confused.

At lease Ace defeated Jinbei after 5 days of fighting h2h. He stalemated an attack from Kuzan... a confirmed haki user. His ultiamte attack the "Dai Enkai: Entei" is nearly the size of an island. when it goes off

@enemybird:

Completely dominating your enemy in every aspect. That sound like a stomp to me.

WB instance is completely different, if you actually read the serie and have common sense you'd know it.

Surprise attack =/= dominating your enemy.

1) Someone who is weaker then Doffy. Naming an off panel feats this unimpressive won't change things.

2) A low showing from Aokiji tbh, but doesn't change anything.

2) A really, really small island and an attack he won't be able to pull off or that Doffy will avoid.

Doffy uses parasite and play with him until he gets annoying. Then he:

-Drowns Ace.

-Slice him in half.

Easy peasy lemon squeeze.

@enemybird:

Out of terrible logic and arguments?

At least I don't have to waste my time anymore.

lol^^

@enemybird: well you don't have to use armament to hit logias, just haki.

But yeah the only way you could possibly say doffy has it if you would accept when Trebol started showing him haki in his flashbacks.

If I'm not mistaken Ace apparently from his novel( overseen by oda) learned CoA after declining an invitation to shichibukai. Would like to know if anyone can fully confirm this?

I have to give the benefit of the doubt to Doffy. People roughly on par with Doffy (like Cracker) had much higher bounty then Ace had.

Ace has great potential, but he was still something of a noob before his death. Doflamingo has been in the game all his life and has learned all of the tricks.

Even if we assume Doflamingo had the ability to hit logias (which I have no problems with.) He still doesn't have the feats to beat Ace pre-time skip.

@enemybird:

Even if we assume Doflamingo had the ability to hit logias (which I have no problems with.) He still doesn't have the feats to beat Ace pre-time skip.

Comparative scaling though, puts this in Doflamingo's favor.

And though Ace has the hypothetical better attack feats, Doflamingo has the indisputable better speed feats and better durability feats.

@gnomishness said:

Youre going have to point out specific examples of what you're talking about. declarative statements do not equal an argument.