Pick 3: Emperorthanos vs Justicethorpsylock (Voting)

@emperorthanos:

• Goku
• X-Man(Shaman)
• Gladiator
• Soul attack immunity
• Transmutation Immunity

@justicethorpsylocke:

• Ganon (Composite)
• Sasuke
• Doctor Strange
• TP Immunity
• Transmutation Immunity

Rules.... not many.......

• Pick up to 3 characters.
• All Characters with Expanded Universe are allowed there Canon EU feats.
• All characters are in character, but rivalries are forgotten.
• No character is allowed to use Time Control, or Reality Warping of another character either. Manipulating the environment is fine.
• All Characters are current, unless specified.
• Everyone is allowed standard gear.
• Summons/Minions. Cannot summon anything over Iron Man.
• Everyone will have access to a Wikipage of their adversaries.
• Everyone will have 5 minuets prep (no leaving the battlefield) to set up defenses, barriers, traps, ect.
• Anything consider too unfair that is brought up will be ruled on by me.

Start 1/2 mile apart

@justicethorpsylocke

So who goes first?

TV4

@emperorthanos: Could you please?

@justicethorpsylocke: OK here. I'm just going to use my old opener since I didn't have a match in the lat round.

Gladiator

Bio

Powers and abilities

Basic abilities

• Superhuman Strength
• Superhuman Speed/Reflexes
• Superhuman Durability/Invulnerability
• Superhuman Stamina
• Flight
• Heat Vision
• Super Breath
• Super Senses
• Hyper-Vision (Telescopic)/Microscopic Vision
• Super Hearing
• Skilled soldier and leader

Strength

His Superhuman strength that ranks in the class 100 (not to be taken literally, due to the vast upgrade Marvel characters have gotten over the years), which puts him on par with Hulk and Thor; in fact, at full confidence he has shown to over power Thor. He has also been shown to rip apart entire lack holes and shatter planets.

Speed

His travel speed is much faster than light speed so combat and reaction speed. He has also shown his great speed in instances such as his battles with Thor and Hyperion . He has also been shown to fly 100 times the speed of light.

Durability

Gladiators is extremely durable. He has been seen going through suns effortlessly with no damage at all. He also has survived attacks from the like of Tyrant, Jean Grey and Vulcan. He has survived attacks that are comparable to supernova and fought against some of the strongest people in the galaxy.

Heat Vision

Gladiator also has an extremely powerful heat vision. His heat vision has been stated to be hotter than a sun itself. And over the years we have seen him match the heat vision of character such has Tyrant and a phoenix force Induced Cyclops.

Goku

Bio

Powers and abilities

Shaman Nate Grey

Bio

Power and abilities

Strategy

So my knowledge on your team varies. I know little nothing on Ganon, have decent bit of knowledge on Strange, and know Sasuke like the back of my hand(atleast I think I do). So this will change after more knowledge on your team.

Prep

Nate Grey will use his precognition to see the future. Even Mimic couldn't handle his power.

Gallery

He then tells the rest of the team what he knows. And get's Goku to transform into SSB.

Opening strategy

So my team will have quite a it of knowledge coming into this.

Goku and Gladatior will rush your team for the blitz so that Nate Grey can do this.

Since he can't shut you down. He removes you powers through molecular level telekinesis instead.

Here he removes magnetos powers.

If you want proof that he can affect molecules, heres an example of him changing himself through the use of molecule manip.

So does anyone in your team have anyway of avoiding molecular attacks?

If not then once your team has lost their powers. Either Goku or Gladiator can beat down your team with planetary attacks since none of them are fast enough dodge their attacks.

That is an impressive punch, since Goku did this on a planet with gravity 10X that of earth making it very dense. Now there are several calculations for this density, here are the link if you re interested.

• Calc 1
• Cal 2 Done by Pope052( a very reputable viner)
• Calc 3

I also see you have no BFR immunity. Nate Grey can also simply teleport your team to another reality.

This is just one instance of him doing this.

I also want to address something else which is BFR by. Your strategy in the previous match had this as does I'm going to bring why my team cannot fall to this.

Nate Grey can teleport across different realities and universe with no problem. He can do the same for others as well. Goku too can teleport across realms if he needs too.

Here Nate Grey teleports to another reality.

@sirfizzwhizz: Is TKing the electric impulses inside our brains considered transmutation?

@thetruebarryallen

We called it.

@nighthunder: are you going to this in every match of mine?

@justicethorpsylocke: why would it be transformation?

@emperorthanos: Did I do this in your last match?

If so my bad LOL I can't remember.

@nighthunder: well you are soulexodus right? then you did say that in my last match.

@emperorthanos:

My bad then D:

No. That be mental attack though.

@emperorthanos: TKing my teams insides on an atomic level seems to be pushing it

@emperorthanos: Nevermind, SFW ruled it out anyway.

why is it a metal attack. It's not tp or attacking his mind. It's a physically attacking the electro currents in his brain. It's more similar to affecting his molecules with TK.

It seems more like a mental attack if they can no longer use their brains to function...

I stated this in the main sign ups. Any attack affecting the brain is a mental attack whether psy base, or even biological base. Your attacking the mind, TP Immunity applies.

@justicethorpsylocke: well there you go. I edited my post.

@emperorthanos:

Uchiha Sasuke

Strength and Speed

Sasuke has mountain level striking power and is a massively hypersonic speedster. I'll post proof if it's needed.

Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan

That's Sasuke's right eye.

• Amaterasu, an ability that allows the user to make whatever they're looking at to burst into inextinguishable black flames. Additionally, Sasuke has the ability to shape and control the flames at will into things like spikes, arrows, shields etc.
• Susanoo, a massive, humanoid energy manifestation that acts as a shield. It is hundreds of feet tall and durable enough to take mountain busting bijuu bombs. Sasuke can surround Susanoo with Amaterasu flame for added benefit.

Rinnegan

That Sasuke's left eye.

• Teleportation
• Energy absorption (including elemental properties, life force, etc.)
• Soul rip
• Unique creature summoning
• Force projection and repulsion
• Planetary Devastation (this essentially creates a gravity well that sucks everything in, it is strong enough to create a moon)

Ganon

Ganon is a massively powerful sorcerer, with a variety of abilities.

• Flight
• Elemental manipulation
• Entrapment
• Teleportation
• Dimensional manipulation
• Force field generation
• Super strength
• Immortality
• Conjuration

Doctor Strange

• Dimensional manipulation
• Life manipulation
• Teleportation
• Energy manipulation
• Astral plane projection
• Banishment
• Telekinesis
• Telepathy
• Binding
• Conjuring
• Force field generation

Counters

Since he can't shut you down. He removes you powers through molecular level telekinesis instead.

Nowhere in that scan is it suggested that Mags powers are gone, just that they've been nullified.

Even if they were, that doesn't mean he can depower anybody here.

All he'd have to do is remove the X Gene, whereas to depower Strange he would need to sever his connection to magic (Strange has no actual powers btw, he just invokes entities), to depower Sasuke he'd have to completely take his chakra (good luck), and I don't think there's any way to depower Ganon. He has no means of depowering my team.=

Also you can't do that. My team has transmutation immunity. You transforming our bodies into something without our powers/connections would be transmutation.

So in conclusion, not gonna happen.

I also see you have no BFR immunity. Nate Grey can also simply teleport your team to another reality.

All 3 of my guys are dimension hoppers, so no dice.

Also Strange is more advanced at it than Nate.

Strategy

1. Strange uses the Eye of Agamotto to gain foresight on your team. He shares the information with Sasuke and Ganon telepathically.
2. Ganon identifies them then places a curse on them like he did Jabu-Jabu (a deity) and the Great Deku Tree.
3. Sasuke summons the Rinnegan Cameleon (invisible) then has the team get inside it. Strange then places a spell that cloaks us to ensure you can't see us.
4. Gladiator will be useless as Sasuke can use subtle genjutsu to make him lose confidence, Strange and Sasuke create illusionary duplicates which will also make him lose confidence when he realizes his attacks are futile, and the curse takes effect weakening him more. All in all, he dies easily.
5. Strange sends his astral form to fight your team. Strange's astral power is greater than Nate's and Goku has no way of hurting his astral form.
6. Ganon's curse will slowly weaken them while Strange is taking them out.
7. You lose

@justicethorpsylocke:

Counters

1. Strange uses the Eye of Agamotto to gain foresight on your team. He shares the information with Sasuke and Ganon telepathically.
2. Ganon identifies them then places a curse on them like he did Jabu-Jabu (a deity) and the Great Deku Tree.
3. Sasuke summons the Rinnegan Cameleon (invisible) then has the team get inside it. Strange then places a spell that cloaks us to ensure you can't see us.
4. Gladiator will be useless as Sasuke can use subtle genjutsu to make him lose confidence, Strange and Sasuke create illusionary duplicates which will also make him lose confidence when he realizes his attacks are futile, and the curse takes effect weakening him more. All in all, he dies easily.
5. Strange sends his astral form to fight your team. Strange's astral power is greater than Nate's and Goku has no way of hurting his astral form.
6. Ganon's curse will slowly weaken them while Strange is taking them out.
7. You lose

• ok interesting, is the eye standard gear for strange?
• So how fast can place this curse. Goku and Gladiator can attack him at mftl speeds right from the start. Also has Ganon ever done this in a fight before.
• That was Pein personal summon, no one else with the rinnegan has ever summoned him. Sasuke has never shown the capability to use any of Pein Summons so this is not working
• ah yes the lovely confidence debate. first of all Sasuke's stopped using Genjutsu in battle a long time ago. The only time he used was to control the Bijuu and against Sakura. In actually fights, he didn't use it against, Naruto, Kabuto, Madara, Obito, Kaguya, Momoshiki etc. Danzo was the last time Sasuke used Genjutsu in battle. So why would he use it here. Secondly even he does use Genjutsu, it won't work

Gallery

1. Here Vulcan's attacks are useless against him just because he believes so.
2. Here Gladiator realizes rachel grey is playing a mind trick on him and breaks out of it.

There is no confidence issue here and Genjutsu won't work.

• What feats do you have to prove Strange is superior?

Nate's ability with the astral plane is so great, he was able to move his physical body inside of it.

oh and even if Strange enters the plane. Nate can pull him back out.

• Ganon is not going to have time to put any curse on my team and I addressed the astral plane thing already.

Also you can't do that. My team has transmutation immunity. You transforming our bodies into something without our powers/connections would be transmutation.

Molecular manip is not the same as transmutation, Nate uses transmutation which is completely different

Also Strange is more advanced at it than Nate.

how does that show he is better?

Battle

So the moment th match begins, Goku and Gladiator will go for the blitz.
here Reed Richards says that Gladiator was moving at a 100 time speed of light. For context he was chasing a skrull ship from one galaxy to another.

Now this is FTL travel speed, which is relevant when it comes to bull rushing, something that Gladiator does very often.

Goku too is FTl. However he will most likely begin with a ki attack. Here Piccolo's ki blasts reaches and destroys the moon instantly.

Gallery

This Piccolo is far far far weaker than the Goku I'm using right now. So Goku's Ki blasts are definitely light speed and his attack can most definitely blow up the planet when characters far weaker than him have done so. Like Frieza in his first form who destroyed a planet far bigger than Earth casually.

Gallery

So do any of your character have ftl reactions and have the durability to survive planetary attacks.

I also have yet to see a counter to Nate Grey's molecule manip. Here is another example of him destroying a bunch of microorganisms.

@emperorthanos:

• ok interesting, is the eye standard gear for strange?

Yes, as SS it's responsible for a lot of spells he uses

• So how fast can place this curse. Goku and Gladiator can attack him at mftl speeds right from the start. Also has Ganon ever done this in a fight before.

I have 5 minutes prep, mate. Read the OP.

He's never done it in battle but he's done it in prep, which I have.

• That was Pein personal summon, no one else with the rinnegan has ever summoned him. Sasuke has never shown the capability to use any of Pein Summons so this is not working

That's false. It's one of the paths of pain, meaning it's one of the abilities granted by the Rinnegan. Look up the Rinnegan and you see this same thing.

• ah yes the lovely confidence debate. first of all Sasuke's stopped using Genjutsu in battle a long time ago. The only time he used was to control the Bijuu and against Sakura. In actually fights, he didn't use it against, Naruto, Kabuto, Madara, Obito, Kaguya, Momoshiki etc. Danzo was the last time Sasuke used Genjutsu in battle. So why would he use it here. Secondly even he does use Genjutsu, it won't work

It doesn't matter.

Gallery

Reed has defeated Gladiator by making him think he was hitting Reed when he was hitting Cap's shield. Sasuke and Strange can make illusionary clones (remember that Bunshin is an E-rank technique) and Gladiator will lose confidence realizing his attacks are futile like above.

• What feats do you have to prove Strange is superior?

Gallery

• His astral form is strong enough that it can withstand the energy of the sun's core, which destroys other astral forms.
• He can destroy a planet with his astral form.
• He unconsciously deflects astral attack from another mage with the Eye of Agamotto.

Molecular manip is not the same as transmutation, Nate uses transmutation which is completely different

Doesn't matter, the Eye of Agamotto has resisted reality/matter manipulation.

It takes magic to fight on Strange's level.

If he can resist cosmic manipulation, he can negate Nate's matter manipulation.

how does that show he is better?

It shows he can traverse a nexus of dimensions and consciously enter and leave pretty much anywhere, as opposed to Nate just opening a portal.

And either way it refutes you saying that you can BFR Strange.

So the moment th match begins, Goku and Gladiator will go for the blitz.

here Reed Richards says that Gladiator was moving at a 100 time speed of light. For context he was chasing a skrull ship from one galaxy to another.

Irrelevant. You can't see us.

So do any of your character have ftl reactions and have the durability to survive planetary attacks.

I also have yet to see a counter to Nate Grey's molecule manip. Here is another example of him destroying a bunch of microorganisms.

No, but Strange has auto-shields that have resisted attacks from being that could solo your team.

And during the prep he can give our whole team shields that easily are impenetrable to your team.

And either way, you won't be able to see us.

Conclusion

1. From inside the cameleon and magic cloaking, we will fight from behind the scenes using illusions and Ganon's curse.
2. You can't put down my astral projection nor penetrate Strange's shields.
3. You lose

@sirfizzwhizz: can he place curses on me during the prep? since he is basically attacking my character

No. Only when the fight starts.

@sirfizzwhizz: ok thanks.

Just letting you know, even if I can't do it in prep, my team is cloaked and inside the chameleon so Ganon can place the curse then.

@justicethorpsylocke: and thats fine.

@justicethorpsylocke:

More Rebuttals

I have 5 minutes prep, mate. Read the OP.

He's never done it in battle but he's done it in prep, which I have.

Can't place curses during prep.

That's false. It's one of the paths of pain, meaning it's one of the abilities granted by the Rinnegan. Look up the Rinnegan and you see this same thing.

Nope not how the rinnegan works my friend. Not all rinnegan jutsus are universal. Madara is the only one who was able to use Limbo clones. While Sasuke was the only with space time jutsu. While the path six paths grant summoning jutsu, every user has his own summons. Nagato has his own weird summons that are unique to him clearly seen by the fact that they have chakra rods in them just like the other Pains. None of the other rinnegan users have Nagato's summons or have ever summoned then. Prove to me that Sasuke can do that.

oh another thing when has anyone ever gone into the chameleon before, how do you even know three people can fit inside of the creature anyway when no one has ever done that. This whole plan is so unrealistic.

Sasuke only has one rinnegan and he has not shown several of the six paths techniques.

It doesn't matter.

Reed has defeated Gladiator by making him think he was hitting Reed when he was hitting Cap's shield. Sasuke and Strange can make illusionary clones (remember that Bunshin is an E-rank technique) and Gladiator will lose confidence realizing his attacks are futile like above.

Firstly it does matter. It show in character Sasuke does not use genjutsu.

Also didn't I just show you two instances were Galdiator had no confidence problem. Why would you then so an older Gladiator, when I showed that current Gladiator has over come this issue.

• His astral form is strong enough that it can withstand the energy of the sun's core, which destroys other astral forms.
• He can destroy a planet with his astral form.
• He unconsciously deflects astral attack from another mage with the Eye of Agamotto.

interesting Strange is really something in that plane isn't he.

But Nate Grey was able to change the astral plane into his imagination accidentally

Nate Grey can manipulate the astral plane to his will if he wants, he can use it to revive anyone who has fallen too.

Also like I said before what's stopping him from just bringing Strange outside of the plane like he did to Charles Xavier.

Doesn't matter, the Eye of Agamotto has resisted reality/matter manipulation.

Umm where in that scan does Strange resist Matter Manipulation? Are you seriously saying Matter manip is the same thing as reality manip.

It takes magic to fight on Strange's level.

If he can resist cosmic manipulation, he can negate Nate's matter manipulation.

Umm where did you get that from? Plenty of non magic users have given strange a hard time. do you have any proof for your ridiculous statement? Especially when he has been beaten by non magic users before

Gallery

Here no one is magic user but they are able to beat Strange who is sorcerers supreme in this fight I believe. Now have this team is street level fodder anyway. But the purpose of this is to show that you don't need magic to hurt strange, physical attacks work fine and so do energy blasts.

And either way it refutes you saying that you can BFR Strange.

Yeah ok that is fair.

Irrelevant. You can't see us.

Umm yes we can, that chameleon argument has been rebutted. Sasuke can't do it and the chameleon itself as never taken people inside of itself either. You have to prove both those things before you show me that this strategy is realistic.

Also my team can still sense you. Goku can sense life energy which all you characters have. While Gladiator as supermanesque senses. He can use x-ray vision, microscopic vision, or just hear them.

No, but Strange has auto-shields that have resisted attacks from being that could solo your team.

And during the prep he can give our whole team shields that easily are impenetrable to your team.

Yeah so you going to give me any examples? Has his shields ever tanked planetary punches. And don't show me energy blasts either because that is different.

But here are some example of what my team can do.

Goku

Gallery

• Cell a far weaker character than Goku has enough energy to blow up a solar system
• Beerus was able to destroy half a planet with a finger tap at around 1-10% of his power
• Here Goku is matching that same Beerus except this time Beerus is using a lot more of his power. Enough power than the collission of their attacks were jeporadzing the universe, whilst the shockwave were destroying several planets.

Nate Grey

Gallery

• Enough energy to devour the universe
• Curshes the moon with TK.

Gladiator

Gallery

• Matches tyrant briefly. Tyrants eye beams where strong enough to beat Surfer.
• Punches so hard, he creates a star.

And during the prep he can give our whole team shields that easily are impenetrable to your team.

Proof he can give others shields that are as strong as his?

Overall points

1. So Sasuke can't use all of Pain jutsu, some jutsu are unique to each rinnegan user as well as summons are unique. The chameleon has also never taken people inside of him, so it makes no sense that he can do this.
2. You have yet to show me how fast Ganon can place a curse.
3. Strange can be beaten by non magical means.
4. You have yet to show if Strange's shields have th energy durability to survive planetary attacks and the physical durability to survive planetary attacks.
5. You haven't shown this for your other character either.
6. I have gotten no actually counter to molecular manip. Reality manip is not the same.
7. No proof on why your character don't get blitzed from the start of the battle.

@sirfizzwhizz:how many post do we have until voting?

@emperorthanos: there is no real limit. When both are ready, we go to votes.

@emperorthanos: @justicethorpsylocke: you guys near done?

@sirfizzwhizz: I think I have one more post left. Depending on his next post.

Nope not how the rinnegan works my friend. Not all rinnegan jutsus are universal. Madara is the only one who was able to use Limbo clones. While Sasuke was the only with space time jutsu. While the path six paths grant summoning jutsu, every user has his own summons. Nagato has his own weird summons that are unique to him clearly seen by the fact that they have chakra rods in them just like the other Pains. None of the other rinnegan users have Nagato's summons or have ever summoned then. Prove to me that Sasuke can do that.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Animal_Path

Well it looks like you're going to have to look at that and tell me again.

One of the listed users there is indeed Sasuke.

Also, the reason that they have chakra rods is because all Rinnegan users have chakra rod abilities. Obito and Madara have both used chakra rods.

oh another thing when has anyone ever gone into the chameleon before, how do you even know three people can fit inside of the creature anyway when no one has ever done that. This whole plan is so unrealistic.

Uh no, during the Pain/Jiraiya fight, the Animal Path clearly went into the Cameleon.

Sasuke only has one rinnegan and he has not shown several of the six paths techniques.

Maybe because 4 of the paths are basically useless to Sasuke level battles?

So what if he has one Rinnegan? It's Hagoromo's Rinnegan with the S/T of Kaguya, it's by far the strongest Rinnegan in the series.

Like he'd be able to do the Deva Path abilities but not Animal Path? Smh

Firstly it does matter. It show in character Sasuke does not use genjutsu.

Mate, when I said "it doesn't matter" I meant it doesn't matter because we still have clones.

The situation with Vulcan was different. He faced the attack with enough confidence that he resisted it with durability.

Now that's totally different than what Reed did, which is make Glads think his attacks are futile, which is exactly what I can do here with illusions.

Nate Grey can manipulate the astral plane to his will if he wants, he can use it to revive anyone who has fallen too.

Also like I said before what's stopping him from just bringing Strange outside of the plane like he did to Charles Xavier.

I've already shown him taking out another astral form, why wouldn't I be able to take out yours?

At the very least you can't attack me astrally.

Umm where in that scan does Strange resist Matter Manipulation? Are you seriously saying Matter manip is the same thing as reality manip.

Reality manipulation is just matter manipulation on a way higher scale.

But go ahead, please explain to me how they're different and matter manip is better

Umm where did you get that from? Plenty of non magic users have given strange a hard time. do you have any proof for your ridiculous statement? Especially when he has been beaten by non magic users before

oh my stars

• First of all, Strange was not SS in that. If you actually knew the context behind that fight, you would know that right after that fight, Strange was reinstated as SS by the Ancient Ones spirit. In that fight he did not have the Eye of Agamoto due to not being the SS.
• And even if that scan featured the version of the character I'm using, he was NOT defeated in that fight, as a matter of fact he won using black magic to free their control
• I also find it interesting you use scans of him one-shotting everyone to prove he was defeated

Sorry buddy, wrong version of the character.

Umm yes we can, that chameleon argument has been rebutted. Sasuke can't do it and the chameleon itself as never taken people inside of itself either. You have to prove both those things before you show me that this strategy is realistic.

Unfortunately for you I refuted both those things.

Yeah so you going to give me any examples? Has his shields ever tanked planetary punches. And don't show me energy blasts either because that is different.

Gallery

• Surviving the destruction of Eternity's realm
• Surviving Zom's full force thunderclap
• Easily blocking Surfer's blast
• Resisting force that broke through the dimension he was in
• Resisting the entire Dark Dimension being thrown at him

Not to mention I already shows his astral form forming shields that resisted planetary destruction

Enough power than the collission of their attacks were jeporadzing the universe, whilst the shockwave were destroying several planets.

Cool, but Strange's magic is easily solar system level to begin with

Gallery

• Compressing a supernova into a black hole
• Using "nova level" blasting force
• And briefly matching Adam Warlock with the Infinity Gauntlet

• Enough energy to devour the universe

That's impressive, but according to Beyonder, Strange's power is multiversal level in the level of being he can suppress.

So if he can suppress a multiversal he can suppress a universal

Matches tyrant briefly. Tyrants eye beams where strong enough to beat Surfer.

I've shown blasting/shielding feats on this level.

Punches so hard, he creates a star.

And Strange has suppressed a supernova, soo....

Proof he can give others shields that are as strong as his?

In numerous shielding feats (including the one with Dormammu throwing the Dark Dimension at them and the Surfer one) I've shown him shield others.

Other Ways I Can Take You Down

Absorbing you.

As we see here, Strange absorbed the Uni-Power (universal) so he could probably do something along the lines of this to Goku.

Stopping you in your tracks

Strange stopped Thor, Hyperion, Abyss, Nightmask, and the potentially multiversal Starbrand.

He could easily do this to your team.

Countering your blitz

You say that you can blitz me but Strange can travel "faster than any living being has traveled before"

As you can see he can do this with a partner as well.

@emperorthanos Forgot to call you out

@emperorthanos Bump

@justicethorpsylocke: I will get to this soon. Maybe tomorrow or the day after. We are far ahead of every other match in this tourney anyway so we have time.

Counters

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Animal_Path

Well it looks like you're going to have to look at that and tell me again.

One of the listed users there is indeed Sasuke.

Also, the reason that they have chakra rods is because all Rinnegan users have chakra rod abilities. Obito and Madara have both used chakra rods.

A wiki site? really? So if I go edit that now and take Sasuke out does at mean he doesn't have the animal path. Wiki sites are highly unreliable and that is not proof that Sasuke can summon the exact same animals that pain can. Having access to the animal path could mean he could summon the gedo statue but not necessarily the exact summons

So I will ask again, do you have any proof that Sasuke can use the same summons as Nagato?

And stil no counter on how different Rinnegan users have different abilities.

Uh no, during the Pain/Jiraiya fight, the Animal Path clearly went into the Cameleon.

Apologies, I remember when it happened now. While this doesn't change the fact that you haven't prove why Sasuke can summon the creature. I will show you why it won't matter.

For Goku

Goku can feel the flow of air pressure to tell where someone is so he can attack them. He was in a pitch black and couldn't see his opponenet but through the flow of air current he could tell where he was.

He can also sense someones energy or life force, similar to how Sage Mode Naruto can(who was able to find Pain inside the chameleon)

Goku senses Bulma someone who is just an ordinary human. He is quickly able to find her and go to her. Seeing as how there are no othe rpeople in the area sensing your team will be easy for Goku.

For Gladiator. He has a very impressive senses

Here the Narrator states that Gladiators vision can see through the densest matter.

And here he hears a distress signal light years a way. The narrator states his hearing is far beyond normal and he is able to detect frequencies.

Both Goku and Gladiator will have no trouble sensing and finding your team even if you are able to proof that Sasuke can summon the chameleon.

Maybe because 4 of the paths are basically useless to Sasuke level battles?

So what if he has one Rinnegan? It's Hagoromo's Rinnegan with the S/T of Kaguya, it's by far the strongest Rinnegan in the series.

Like he'd be able to do the Deva Path abilities but not Animal Path? Smh

Really? I'm sure he would have use the paths to regrow his arm back. Or summons to help him in battle. Heck maybe Sasuke doesn't even know how to use all those jutsu. You 0 proof that Sasuke can summon that exact same creatures.

OK so maybe he should have access to all paths. But not the exact same summons. Animal path is just the path that allows you to summons creatures, not the same specific ones that Nagato used. That is my point. Sasuke can summons snakes and hawks but not that Chameleon creature.

Mate, when I said "it doesn't matter" I meant it doesn't matter because we still have clones.

The situation with Vulcan was different. He faced the attack with enough confidence that he resisted it with durability.

Now that's totally different than what Reed did, which is make Glads think his attacks are futile, which is exactly what I can do here with illusions.

You are missing my point. Sasuke doesn't using Genjutsu anymore, why would he do it here. Secondly I showed the Rachel Grey scan where he realized that it was an illusion and broke out of it. genjutsu is an illusion, so Gladiator can do the same.

I've already shown him taking out another astral form, why wouldn't I be able to take out yours?

Yeah but Nate Grey can bring in his physical body into the astral plane and can change the plane itself to his will

At the very least you can't attack me astrally.

I will agree to his. But he can still take you out of the plane.

Reality manipulation is just matter manipulation on a way higher scale.

But go ahead, please explain to me how they're different and matter manip is better

Gladly. Matter manipulation is when you affect the the matter of which something is made of and change it to whatever you please.

Reality warping is when you affect the way reality is,

Reality is "the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them."

Matter is "a physical substance in general, as distinct from mind and spirit; (in physics) that which occupies space and possesses rest mass, especially as distinct from energy."

two different things.

• First of all, Strange was not SS in that. If you actually knew the context behind that fight, you would know that right after that fight, Strange was reinstated as SS by the Ancient Ones spirit. In that fight he did not have the Eye of Agamoto due to not being the SS.
• And even if that scan featured the version of the character I'm using, he was NOT defeated in that fight, as a matter of fact he won using black magic to free their control
• I also find it interesting you use scans of him one-shotting everyone to prove he was defeated

so should I give you more scan of him being hurt then?

My entire point was not that Strange was weak but that he can be affected my no magical attacks.

Gallery

There is more to the fight, I know, Strange blasts him and then he comes back and uses the penance stare.

but my point is you made a baseless statement saying

It takes magic to fight on Strange's level.

Which is false. He can be beat by an opponent with enough power. Unless you believe he is superior to the likes of Galactus, Odin, Molecule man etc. Since non of them have magic.

MY point which you must have missed was that Strange can be hurt my non magical attacks and that is enough for my character to win. And how you made an absolutely baseless statement.

• Surviving the destruction of Eternity's realm
• Surviving Zom's full force thunderclap
• Easily blocking Surfer's blast
• Resisting force that broke through the dimension he was in
• Resisting the entire Dark Dimension being thrown at him

Didn't I say not to show me energy blasts. There is a difference between dealing will actual physical attacks and explosions. Do you have feats of his shields holding up to physical punches. That are planetary plus.

The shockwaves of Goku's punches with Beerus was destroying planets and even stars.

As you can see in this feat the shokwaves from the clashes between Goku and Beerus are able to destroy several planets and even stars. You can also see in those subtitles that those punches are going to destroy the universe if the two of them continued the way they did. Meaning Gokus punches should be able to destroy half the universe considering he was matching Beerus equally in that fight. And goku in this fight is even stronger than that.

While the feats you have showed are impressive. They don't show how strong his shield are to physical punches. And on top of that they are still not universal.

• Compressing a supernova into a black hole
• Using "nova level" blasting force
• And briefly matching Adam Warlock with the Infinity Gauntlet

I will say these are pretty impressive but again doesn't really show how his shields can handle punches. I will say that energy attacks from Goku that are Solar system level probably wont be successful but not punches that pin point all that power into one single punch. And I have already shown how two of my characters are more than super nova level.

One more thing how fast can strange put up those shields .

That's impressive, but according to Beyonder, Strange's power is multiversal level in the level of being he can suppress.

So if he can suppress a multiversal he can suppress a universal

Firstly, isn't that classic strange, you only get current feats.

Secondly, Beyonder was drunk and disorientated when this happened so not at his full power. He also said that he might Have been able to Zap him away into a pocket dimension. Which first means that he wasn't 100% that Strange could do this and secondly is just BFR and nothing else. He is just sending him to another universe which I have already proven is useless against my characters.

This scan isn't as impressive as you make it out to. All it does is talk about a possible scenario. Strange has no feats to suggest that scenario would have happened. I don't think a drunk beyonder is a reliable way to judge power.

Absorbing you.

As we see here, Strange absorbed the Uni-Power (universal) so he could probably do something along the lines of this to Goku.

So Strange has to grab on to Goku to make this successful, something he won't do since he is too slow.

And Goku has overcome energy drain in the past.

Gallery

Here Goku fights Yakon on his home planet. Yakon has the ability suck all the energy from someone. But as a ssj Goku has such huge energy reserves, Yakon can't just can't handle him. Now Yakon is one of the strongest fighters in universe, even the supreme kai was shaking just seeing him. Of course compared to the Z fighters these people are nothing but the fact that Goku is able to overcome his energy drain and still have more than enough power left is impressive.

He also overcame Beerus.

I think the scan is cut short but you can see how Goku's aura disappears. Yet he is still able to continue fighting after that. Now this is impressive because Beerus's energy nullification universal through feats but it.

Here Beerus says he can nullify all energy. However by feats he did nullify an attack that was going to destroy an entire universe. Meaning for Goku to overcome this, he must have more energy than that.

Also I made a mistake in my last post saying Nate has enough energy to devour the universe. What he said was that he has enough energy to devour every universe.

He has enough psi energy to destroy every universe. That actually puts him at a multiversal level in terms of PSI energy which is far to great.

Stopping you in your tracks

Strange stopped Thor, Hyperion, Abyss, Nightmask, and the potentially multiversal Starbrand.

He could easily do this to your team.

So I'm going to need more context to this scan. Strange is wearing some weird costume and he is being attacks by heroes. Also how long is this speel in effect

how incharacter is it for Strange to use a such a spell. Also I don't see how he is going to have the time to pull this of when my character are moving a ftl speeds. And more over if it just stops them in heir tracks, that doesn't mean my team can't still attack them. Nate Grey especially has may ways of attacking your team with out moving.

You say that you can blitz me but Strange can travel "faster than any living being has traveled before"

This is travel speed not reaction speed so that doesn't change anything. He has never used this speed in an actual fight so it is useless here. Also how would you even quantify that.

Here is an example for combat speed.

Gallery

Gladiator and Hyperion had a fight in nanoseconds. Gladiator was able to beat him in the end. This is just show how fast Gladiators combat speed is as he is able to have a fight with another FTL character and beat him. This is faster than anything you have shown me for any of your characters.

As for Goku, he was able to match Beerus in combat.

As you can see here GOku and Beerus are fighting but it looks like two balls of light just colliding with each other due to their speed. However the reason this feat is impressive is beucase you can see how they are moving faster than the shockwaves they have been creating. These shockwaves where fast enough to reach Supreme Kai's planet almost instantly. Supreme Kai's planet is outside the known universe

Which means for those shockwaves to reach there, they would have to be moving at speeds much faster than light. And Goku and Beerus were still faster.

but heres another example of Beerus and Champa casually busting and moving from planet to planet.

Gallery

As you can see those are planets, there are inhabitants on them as well. And these two are just going into multiple different planets and destroying them. That is a clear ftl speed as they are moving from planet to planet instantly. It also showcases their planetary punches as just one attack blows up the planet. Now these two weren't even fighting that seriously. Champa was just mad about a cake. While against Goku, Beerus was fighting with a higher percentage of power and Goku still matched.

This showcases how Goku has FTL combat speed as well. Something non of you character have an answer for.

Overall points

So whether or not you are able to succesfully prove that Sasuke can summon a creature he has no ties to and never summoned before, it won't matter in this battle.

• Considering Nate can see into the future. My team would have already known the general idea of what your team's plan is.
• Regardless, when my team can't see you both Goku and Gladiator can use their extreme sensing abilities to find your team instantly.
• Considering your original plan was for your team to hide in the Chameleon, they won't be prepared to be found so quickly. My team can use this to heir advantage to destroy them.
• Considering my team already knows how powerful your team is thanks to Nate, they will not hold back. Which means Goku and Gladiator will be using their speed and powerful attacks to finish off your team quickly.
• Strange' shields are strong but you have shown no feats for how they deal with physical attacks or feats that put them at a level where Goku and Nate can't just over power them with their raw power.

However if you can't prove that Sasuke can summon the creature then this fights ends as soon as it starts. Especially since you only seem to be debating with Strange as the main fighter here which is basically seems thatyou accept that your other two character are simply too weak to compete(which I agree with) So Strange on his own, despite his power, isn't dealing with my entire team at once. When he is:

1. Too slow to deal with my FTL characters attacking him.(Gladiator and Goku)
2. Not durable enough to tank the galaxy+ attacks that my team will throw at him.(Nate and Goku)
3. Has no showing of being able to resist matter manipulation. (Nate)
4. He can't deal with a guy that has enough psi energy to devour every universe(Nate) Or a guy who punches create shockwaves that destroys stars and planets (Goku)

@emperorthanos: I'm just gonna make one more.

@justicethorpsylocke: Well then should I end with this one. Unless you plan on posting some new feats. Then I will post a short closer after just to reply to them.

@emperorthanos: I'm going to post a feat for the sake of a counter, but other than that, just written counters. This should be it

@emperorthanos: When are you going to finish that post btw?

@justicethorpsylocke: hopefully by tonight.

@justicethorpsylocke: yeah I am done

A wiki site? really? So if I go edit that now and take Sasuke out does at mean he doesn't have the animal path. Wiki sites are highly unreliable and that is not proof that Sasuke can summon the exact same animals that pain can. Having access to the animal path could mean he could summon the gedo statue but not necessarily the exact summons

So I will ask again, do you have any proof that Sasuke can use the same summons as Nagato?

I will leave this one up to the voters.

But answer me this, how would Nagato get those summons without the Rinnegan?

I mean, Jiraiya can get a blood contract with the toads, Tsunade can get a contract with Katsuya etc,

but you think that Nagato just randomly stumbled upon a Cerberus, Giant Bird, Giant Ox, Giant Panda Centipede, Giant Rhino etc? Those summons probably aren't even naturally in the wild in Naruto, and the Animal Path is based on the Buddhist belief that animals inhibit a different dimension, which is probably how he got the animals.

And stil no counter on how different Rinnegan users have different abilities.

Any times they do it's for reasons.

Sasuke has Amenotejikara due to it being a gift from SO6P. Kaguya had it in her Rinne Sharingan, so Hagoromo had it (at least latently) so Sasuke obtained it through obtaining Hagoromo's Yin chakra.

Madara has Limbo Clones from simply using his limbo powers differently. Ame is also a limbo ability.

However every single user has all Six Paths. Nagato, who didn't even awaken it naturally like Hagoromo and Madara and isn't an Uchiha or Otsutsuki, yet had all 6, why wouldn't the strongest living Rinnegan user have them?

Goku can feel the flow of air pressure to tell where someone is so he can attack them. He was in a pitch black and couldn't see his opponenet but through the flow of air current he could tell where he was.

He can also sense someones energy or life force, similar to how Sage Mode Naruto can(who was able to find Pain inside the chameleon)

This really doesn't change the fact that Goku can't breach the shields of Strange. More on that in a minute.

You are missing my point. Sasuke doesn't using Genjutsu anymore, why would he do it here. Secondly I showed the Rachel Grey scan where he realized that it was an illusion and broke out of it. genjutsu is an illusion, so Gladiator can do the same.

You once again miss the point.

The clones are not genjutsu, they are illusions casted by the users chakra.

Yeah but Nate Grey can bring in his physical body into the astral plane and can change the plane itself to his will

Oh really?

Because Strange has pulled WWH into the astral plane.

Mind you, WWH resisted Professor X, who you have used to bolster Nate's astral masterty.

Gladly. Matter manipulation is when you affect the the matter of which something is made of and change it to whatever you please.

Reality warping is when you affect the way reality is,

Reality is "the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them."

Matter is "a physical substance in general, as distinct from mind and spirit; (in physics) that which occupies space and possesses rest mass, especially as distinct from energy."

two different things.

And how do you think Reality Manipulation happens?

You manipulate space and time (matter on a quantum scale) to such an extent that you bend reality itself.

TO THE VOTERS: My opponent means to tell me that Nate's matter manip is stronger than the Reality Gem., which Strange resisted the effects of.

Firstly, isn't that classic strange, you only get current feats.

False, I get Sorcerer Supreme feats.

The Ghost Rider fight

Thank you for proving my point, mate.

I ask you for feats of Strange being defeated (as SS) by non-magic users, and you show me a feat of him stalemating a magical entity (Zarathos)

but my point is you made a baseless statement saying

It takes magic to fight on Strange's level.

Which is false. He can be beat by an opponent with enough power. Unless you believe he is superior to the likes of Galactus, Odin, Molecule man etc. Since non of them have magic.

MY point which you must have missed was that Strange can be hurt my non magical attacks and that is enough for my character to win. And how you made an absolutely baseless statement.

What I meant by that statement is that to properly counter Strange's magic, you need magic or similar force.

What I said doesn't apply to beings that are above Universal, but when I show Strange countering the Reality Gem, I'd say my statement certainly works for your team of merely herald level characters.

And good work listing Odin, who uses magic.

Didn't I say not to show me energy blasts. There is a difference between dealing will actual physical attacks and explosions. Do you have feats of his shields holding up to physical punches. That are planetary plus.

Are you serious? I wonder if you looked at the feats.

So Zom's thunderclap is an energy blast?

So a dimension collapsing is an energy blast?

TO THE VOTERS: My opponent means to tell me that even though Strange's shields can resist dimensions being shredded apart by force and cosmic explosions, they can't take a punch from Gladiator or Goku.

Secondly, Beyonder was drunk and disorientated when this happened so not at his full power. He also said that he might Have been able to Zap him away into a pocket dimension. Which first means that he wasn't 100% that Strange could do this and secondly is just BFR and nothing else. He is just sending him to another universe which I have already proven is useless against my characters.

This scan isn't as impressive as you make it out to. All it does is talk about a possible scenario. Strange has no feats to suggest that scenario would have happened. I don't think a drunk beyonder is a reliable way to judge power.

I'll concede this.

Here Goku fights Yakon on his home planet. Yakon has the ability suck all the energy from someone. But as a ssj Goku has such huge energy reserves, Yakon can't just can't handle him. Now Yakon is one of the strongest fighters in universe, even the supreme kai was shaking just seeing him. Of course compared to the Z fighters these people are nothing but the fact that Goku is able to overcome his energy drain and still have more than enough power left is impressive.

He also overcame Beerus.

I'll also concede this.

Also I made a mistake in my last post saying Nate has enough energy to devour the universe. What he said was that he has enough energy to devour every universe.

He has enough psi energy to destroy every universe. That actually puts him at a multiversal level in terms of PSI energy which is far to great.

So any feats of him even using Universal energy, let alone multiversal?

Hell, even Star level?

If you take that Universal statement seriously, then look at this one where a demon calls Strange's power Universal.

The shockwaves of Goku's punches with Beerus was destroying planets and even stars.

Okay, then Goku is Star level, but the whole "nothing left in the universe" thing, just means they would have ended up blowing up all the stars, not that the universal would literally collapse.

One more thing how fast can strange put up those shields .

They are auto-shields granted by the Eye Of Agamotto, he can further reinforce them with conscious spells.

So I'm going to need more context to this scan. Strange is wearing some weird costume and he is being attacks by heroes. Also how long is this speel in effect

how incharacter is it for Strange to use a such a spell. Also I don't see how he is going to have the time to pull this of when my character are moving a ftl speeds. And more over if it just stops them in heir tracks, that doesn't mean my team can't still attack them. Nate Grey especially has may ways of attacking your team with out moving.

Gladly.

Strange is in the weird costume because he joined the Black Priests.

They didn't grant him any extra power, they simply taught him their magic and so now he can do that (better than any of them not to mention)

He's in character in that scan.

• Considering Nate can see into the future. My team would have already known the general idea of what your team's plan is.
• Regardless, when my team can't see you both Goku and Gladiator can use their extreme sensing abilities to find your team instantly.
• Considering your original plan was for your team to hide in the Chameleon, they won't be prepared to be found so quickly. My team can use this to heir advantage to destroy them.
• Considering my team already knows how powerful your team is thanks to Nate, they will not hold back. Which means Goku and Gladiator will be using their speed and powerful attacks to finish off your team quickly.
• Strange' shields are strong but you have shown no feats for how they deal with physical attacks or feats that put them at a level where Goku and Nate can't just over power them with their raw power.

• And Strange will do the same
• Fair, but the shields....
• Yet the shields are still there, and can be placed in prep.
• Strange has done the same, and not to mention Glads and Goku are Star level, whereas Strange's shields are dimension level and have survived dimensional destruction numerous times and from characters who would solo your team (Zom, Dormammu, Mephisto, etc.)
• I indeed have

Conclusion

• Strange's shields are above your team's paygrade
• Strange can still freeze your team
• Strange can counter your Matter Manip and we have transmutation immunity so don't bother.
• Strange can statemate Nate astrally
• When they are frozen Sasuke tags them with Amaterasu
• Sasuke can use Amenotejikara to teleport your team in the way of attacks like he did to Madara.

@emperorthanos

@sirfizzwhizz Ready for votes

@justicethorpsylocke: @emperorthanos: Open for votes then.

@precrisisbardock@emperorthanos@lol_gg_no_re@spector_rand@darkraiden@lukehero@rogueshadow@DedmanWalkin@firestormfate1919

I summon thee.

Come read and vote squad

@justicethorpsylocke: does this mean I can vote?

@theman44 you tagged for votes.

bump

My bad, I usually tag you for callouts

@justicethorpsylocke: yeah I know. I was just joking.