Piccolo vs. Jiren (Equalized Stats)

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deactivated-64969837cbeff

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Piccolo
Piccolo
Jiren
Jiren

Peak/Composite versions

All stats are equalized (strength, speed, durability, destructive capability).

Piccolo's power is increased, while Jiren's power is decreased. They meet in the middle.

In-character

R1: ToP rules

R2: H2H (Win by KO or incap)

R3: Ki attacks (Win by incap or death)

R4: All-out (Win by death)

Fight takes place here:

No Caption Provided

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Reap_ii

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Since stats are equal and its composite I say Piccolo because he can be more ruthless and can regenerate.

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deactivated-64969837cbeff

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ShuraGam

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Piccolo. He has better ki attacks such as makankosanpo(don't know how to write this) , plus he can regen.

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Pandalumina

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Jiren

He doesn't even need his hands or any ki blasts to attack the namek

He also match UI Goku in skill just from looking at his fight with Kefla once

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InvadedTBD

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#6  Edited By InvadedTBD

Jiren, I don't think Piccolo stands a chance even with stats equal.

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The_Hajduk

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Piccolo stomps. The showing against Frost is the best skill feat in DB history.

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The_Hajduk

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Piccolo's power is increased, while Jiren's power is decreased. They meet in the middle.

What actually is the middle of their powers? Like, maybe Super Saiyan God?

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@the_hajduk said:
@redhood_jaytodd said:

Piccolo's power is increased, while Jiren's power is decreased. They meet in the middle.

What actually is the middle of their powers? Like, maybe Super Saiyan God?

If I had to guesstimate, I'd say the middle of their powers is somewhere between SSG and SSB tier.

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The_Hajduk

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@the_hajduk said:
@redhood_jaytodd said:

Piccolo's power is increased, while Jiren's power is decreased. They meet in the middle.

What actually is the middle of their powers? Like, maybe Super Saiyan God?

If I had to guesstimate, I'd say the middle of their powers is somewhere between SSG and SSB tier.

How strong is Piccolo right now? Majin Boo level?

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alextheboss

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Jiren is pretty much just pure power, Piccolo has actual skill and technique showings, not to mention his regeneration, so he wins.

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The_Hajduk

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Jiren is pretty much just pure power, Piccolo has actual skill and technique showings, not to mention his regeneration, so he wins.

He has a few skill feats.

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@redhood_jaytodd said:
@the_hajduk said:
@redhood_jaytodd said:

Piccolo's power is increased, while Jiren's power is decreased. They meet in the middle.

What actually is the middle of their powers? Like, maybe Super Saiyan God?

If I had to guesstimate, I'd say the middle of their powers is somewhere between SSG and SSB tier.

How strong is Piccolo right now? Majin Boo level?

Probably. Super Buu level to be exact.

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Standardized

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Jiren solos

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alextheboss

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@the_hajduk: Nothing any other trained dragon ball character couldn't pull of if they were the same strength.

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The_Hajduk

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@the_hajduk: Nothing any other trained dragon ball character couldn't pull of if they were the same strength.

Do you really mean "any"? Is Jiren at the bottom of skill tiers?

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alextheboss

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@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

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The_Hajduk

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@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

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AkshSarpanch

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Picollo cuz he wasn't a bland antagonist

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baph

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Piccolo lolstomps.

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Pandalumina

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Is everyone forgetting that Jiren was trained by his master? He's not unskilled lol

Again... he was able to match freaking UI in skill...that's above anything that Piccolo can accomplish

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Supermanthor

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Piccalo

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Jiren solos

Nice skill feat by the way, but how does Jiren solo when's alone lol? Jk

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Standardized

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@standardized said:

Jiren solos

Nice skill feat by the way, but how does Jiren solo when's alone lol? Jk

Because he's jiren....

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alextheboss

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@alextheboss said:

@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

When did I say that? I said Namek saga Frieza was more unskilled than Jiren. Frieza flat out stated he never trained before.

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The_Hajduk

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@the_hajduk said:
@alextheboss said:

@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

When did I say that? I said Namek saga Frieza was more unskilled than Jiren. Frieza flat out stated he never trained before.

He didn't need to train. The jpn version talks about Freeza reading all of Goku's movements and his body instinctively adapting to those movements.

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@alextheboss said:

@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

I'd like to think that Namek Frieza is unskilled, simply because he never trained a day in his life back then. But Jiren did training with his sensei, so that should put him above Namek Frieza in the skills department.

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CaptFalcon725

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Piccoloshould sweep if we ignore Jiren's adaptability. Otherwise Jiren prolly wins all but R4.

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The_Hajduk

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#29  Edited By The_Hajduk

@redhood_jaytodd said:
@the_hajduk said:
@alextheboss said:

@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

I'd like to think that Namek Frieza is unskilled, simply because he never trained a day in his life back then. But Jiren did training with his sensei, so that should put him above Namek Frieza in the skills department.

You don't need training when you're born a natural genius. This is what was said in RF.

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@redhood_jaytodd said:
@the_hajduk said:
@alextheboss said:

@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

I'd like to think that Namek Frieza is unskilled, simply because he never trained a day in his life back then. But Jiren did training with his sensei, so that should put him above Namek Frieza in the skills department.

You don't need training when you're born a natural genius. This is what was said in RF.

A natural genius in using his raw power, sure. But a natural genius in actual skill and technique, I'm a little on the fence with that. I don't think Namek Frieza would've had the feats he did if not for his naturally gifted power. Power and skill for Frieza are two separate categories. He was naturally blessed with the power he had in the Namek Saga, but not skill or technique.

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GrandTOAA

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Piccolo is more divested, so you wins. Jiren is just a brute fighter

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FullMetalEmprah

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Piccolo should win with equalized stats.

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Saiyan_Prince510

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can go either way

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Aristeaus

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#34  Edited By Aristeaus

Jiren stomps this. What are people even talking about.. lol

There is such a wide chasm between Piccolo and Jirens powers. If you meet in the middle, its going to be somewhere close to base Jiren. Piccolo has no experience fighting at that level, or those types of fights in general. Jiren, on the other hand, has a ton of experience at that level.

There is a long history of people have growing pains with new fusions/powerups in the DB verse. This is the equivalent of like 10 powerups, all at once, for Piccolo.

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Ouroborik

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@the_hajduk said:
@alextheboss said:

@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

When did I say that? I said Namek saga Frieza was more unskilled than Jiren. Frieza flat out stated he never trained before.

No, he didn't...

I'm pretty sure the "Frieza never trained before" thing is a retcon from Super.

Frieza in DBZ seemed to enjoy fighting quite a lot.

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Soothing_Sounds

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@Aristeaus: piccolo came up with a new technique in his second fight(1st serious fight) after fusing with kami.

Piccolo has several unique techniques, base regen, and extendable limbs. He's all around more skilled and versatile than jiren.

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alextheboss

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@ouroborik: I’m clearly talking about the line in Super...

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Piccolo, on account of his regeneration, should keep him alive long enough to find a technique that works on Jiren.

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@alextheboss said:
@the_hajduk said:
@alextheboss said:

@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

When did I say that? I said Namek saga Frieza was more unskilled than Jiren. Frieza flat out stated he never trained before.

No, he didn't...

I'm pretty sure the "Frieza never trained before" thing is a retcon from Super.

Frieza in DBZ seemed to enjoy fighting quite a lot.

Well DBS is canon, so I believe we have to go with the retcon now. IIRC, Frieza didn't get his hands dirty in DBZ until all his army in Namek was defeated. I don't think he enjoys fighting, more like he does it as a last resort.

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Ouroborik

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#40  Edited By Ouroborik
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@ouroborik said:
@alextheboss said:
@the_hajduk said:
@alextheboss said:

@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

When did I say that? I said Namek saga Frieza was more unskilled than Jiren. Frieza flat out stated he never trained before.

No, he didn't...

I'm pretty sure the "Frieza never trained before" thing is a retcon from Super.

Frieza in DBZ seemed to enjoy fighting quite a lot.

Well DBS is canon, so I believe we have to go with the retcon now. IIRC, Frieza didn't get his hands dirty in DBZ until all his army in Namek was defeated. I don't think he enjoys fighting, more like he does it as a last resort.

Meh, honestly I only accept DBS statements as canon when we are specifically talking about DBS characters or events. Aside from the fact that Super is "pre-written" by Toriyama, I think it breaks away from the original series as much or even more than GT ever did. It has some great additions to the lore, but I don't think it should ever be considered any more "canon" than DB Online, GT or filler. They are all alternate timelines, each with their own merits.

The manga ended with the Buu Saga and, after that, Toriyama himself has contributed to pretty much every sequel that has been done so far. So why should we prioritize one sequel instead of the other?

Those are just my two cents, but I think it hurts no one to just accept everything outside of the original manga as their own alternate timelines that are all canon in the multiverse.

This is coming from a guy who thinks Post-Crisis is better than Rebirth :P

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The_Hajduk

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@the_hajduk said:
@redhood_jaytodd said:
@the_hajduk said:
@alextheboss said:

@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

I'd like to think that Namek Frieza is unskilled, simply because he never trained a day in his life back then. But Jiren did training with his sensei, so that should put him above Namek Frieza in the skills department.

You don't need training when you're born a natural genius. This is what was said in RF.

A natural genius in using his raw power, sure. But a natural genius in actual skill and technique, I'm a little on the fence with that. I don't think Namek Frieza would've had the feats he did if not for his naturally gifted power. Power and skill for Frieza are two separate categories. He was naturally blessed with the power he had in the Namek Saga, but not skill or technique.

Freeza learned Krillin's kienzan and improved it.
Was stated to be reading Goku's movements and his body was instinctively adapting to all his moves.
Pressed Goku without using his hands (Daizenshuu states their power levels were equal at this point)
Outsmarted Goku at least once and led him into the Imprisonent Light Ball.
Landed some damn good shots on the Super Saiyan in the most brutal h2h in the series.

Has Death Beam, eye lasers, Imprisonment Light Ball, Black Hole/Supernova Ball, and Death Saucers, which is a very solid list of attacks.

This is all technically from one fight.

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The_Hajduk

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@redhood_jaytodd said:
@ouroborik said:
@alextheboss said:
@the_hajduk said:
@alextheboss said:

@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

When did I say that? I said Namek saga Frieza was more unskilled than Jiren. Frieza flat out stated he never trained before.

No, he didn't...

I'm pretty sure the "Frieza never trained before" thing is a retcon from Super.

Frieza in DBZ seemed to enjoy fighting quite a lot.

Well DBS is canon, so I believe we have to go with the retcon now. IIRC, Frieza didn't get his hands dirty in DBZ until all his army in Namek was defeated. I don't think he enjoys fighting, more like he does it as a last resort.

Meh, honestly I only accept DBS statements as canon when we are specifically talking about DBS characters or events. Aside from the fact that Super is "pre-written" by Toriyama, I think it breaks away from the original series as much or even more than GT ever did. It has some great additions to the lore, but I don't think it should ever be considered any more "canon" than DB Online, GT or filler. They are all alternate timelines, each with their own merits.

The manga ended with the Buu Saga and, after that, Toriyama himself has contributed to pretty much every sequel that has been done so far. So why should we prioritize one sequel instead of the other?

Those are just my two cents, but I think it hurts no one to just accept everything outside of the original manga as their own alternate timelines that are all canon in the multiverse.

This is coming from a guy who thinks Post-Crisis is better than Rebirth :P

Great post!

I believe there is no canon.

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Shintoki

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#44  Edited By Shintoki

@the_hajduk said:
@ouroborik said:
@redhood_jaytodd said:
@ouroborik said:
@alextheboss said:
@the_hajduk said:
@alextheboss said:

@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

When did I say that? I said Namek saga Frieza was more unskilled than Jiren. Frieza flat out stated he never trained before.

No, he didn't...

I'm pretty sure the "Frieza never trained before" thing is a retcon from Super.

Frieza in DBZ seemed to enjoy fighting quite a lot.

Well DBS is canon, so I believe we have to go with the retcon now. IIRC, Frieza didn't get his hands dirty in DBZ until all his army in Namek was defeated. I don't think he enjoys fighting, more like he does it as a last resort.

Meh, honestly I only accept DBS statements as canon when we are specifically talking about DBS characters or events. Aside from the fact that Super is "pre-written" by Toriyama, I think it breaks away from the original series as much or even more than GT ever did. It has some great additions to the lore, but I don't think it should ever be considered any more "canon" than DB Online, GT or filler. They are all alternate timelines, each with their own merits.

The manga ended with the Buu Saga and, after that, Toriyama himself has contributed to pretty much every sequel that has been done so far. So why should we prioritize one sequel instead of the other?

Those are just my two cents, but I think it hurts no one to just accept everything outside of the original manga as their own alternate timelines that are all canon in the multiverse.

This is coming from a guy who thinks Post-Crisis is better than Rebirth :P

Great post!

I believe there is no canon.

hmmm no

GT Was stated to be a continuation for the anime by its producer. and toriyama consider it a side story while acknowledging that nothing happened afterward the original story, thus, removing GT from the main continuity, whilst GT being connected to the films speak for itself

(and cant argue alternate timeline btw, because there are only 4 officially)

ROF was written as a what if continuation to the manga as stated by toriyama making DBS film continuity not canon either

DBS having manga and TV anime both canon cannot work because of the, again, official timeline chart that consist of only 4, so one is not. whether the said one DBS is canon or not, or which one is it, is up to u specially since DBS has not retconned DBZ yet

DB online < not even worth mentioning reasons why its not canon

there is an official canon, but most fans ignore it to connect their favorite works

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#47  Edited By Mee09

TLDR: Piccolo is not more skilled than Jiren. Jiren has accomplished far more and is overall much more impressive.

I do not believe that many of the people in this thread understand the level of skill needed to attain Jiren's level of power in Dragon Ball. There are some exceptions like Zeno for example. But other than those exceptions you cannot be a fighter in Dragon Ball and have Jiren's level of strength without being exceptionally skilled in combat.

Jiren is likely FAR more skilled than Piccolo in hand to hand combat. At one point he had a master. But after his master was gone. Jiren did nothing but train by himself and he was able to attain his current strength. Imagine how powerful Jiren would have become. Had he trained with as many skilled mortals, gods, and etc. Like Goku or Vegeta did? Vegeta and Android 17 are the closest thing to Jiren in Universe 7 and they definitely couldn't have gotten to where they are by themselves. Which says a lot considering both of them combined still do not possess more power than Jiren.

Piccolo is likely a more intelligent fighter. He has more unorthodox techniques that have been made in order for him to make up the difference between him and his opponents levels of power. These techniques were not made solely because of his skill in fighting. Piccolo can't find a way to overcome opponents stronger than him without them. Unlike Goku and Vegeta. He cannot push past his limits like Goku and Vegeta can for example.

Jiren on the otherhand has none of these issues and both his skill and power were praised by everyone in the tournament. Not a single fighter said that Jiren was all power. With skill and determination alone. Jiren surpassed his GoD in power while training all by himself. Piccolo is not capable of this. Jiren is also capable of fighting opponents that are more skilled than him and actually doing well. If MIU Goku didn't have a time limit he would have won. But with Jiren's skill, power, and willingness to push himself he was able to outlast the transformation. Even after all that was said and done. He pushed himself one last time to take on Goku, Frieza, and 17. Piccolo could not push himself that much.

Piccolo has always been known for being a skilled fighter in his Universe. But when you compare him to the other Z-Fighters his skill isn't as impressive. Goku and Vegeta are definitely more skilled than him. But this is a given. Roshi and Krillin are honestly more skilled than him. As great as Piccolo is. He could not pull off what Roshi did in the tournament of power. In the manga Goku watching Roshi fight is actually the reason Goku was able to learn Ultra Instinct. This isn't canon to the anime. But I think it goes to show where the writers see Roshi's level of skill. Even in the tournament he had more eliminations than most of the participants and took out a guy who was the strongest in their entire Universe. Piccolo did not take out anyone that notable. Everyone that Piccolo fought he practically one shot. Krillin is likely more skilled than Piccolo in my honest opinion. He can compete with current SSJ tier opponents with skill and techniques alone. Piccolo has never shown the ability to do that without being close to them in power. Then you have the likes of Android 17 and Majin Buu. 17 who considered Piccolo a rival at one point. Has easily gone far beyond Piccolo's league in both skill and power. Piccolo did get stronger. But because he doesn't try to push himself as much as the other Z Fighters. 17 was able to blow him out of the water. Majin Buu can copy nearly any Techniques he sees then do them perfectly after seeing them once. Piccolo might be better than the likes of Tien and Yamcha. But they have both fallen so far behind the current Z roster that they can't even survive sparring matches with them. I think Piccolo and Android 18 are around the same level in terms of skill. With Piccolo having an edge due to much more experience.

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The_Hajduk

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@shintoki said:
@the_hajduk said:
@ouroborik said:
@redhood_jaytodd said:
@ouroborik said:
@alextheboss said:
@the_hajduk said:
@alextheboss said:

@the_hajduk: When I say any other trained character, I mean the ones with actual skill. So Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.

Characters below Jiren in skill would be namek Frieza and his men. Basically the guys who rely on power.

Oh my god, you did not just say Freeza is unskilled..

When did I say that? I said Namek saga Frieza was more unskilled than Jiren. Frieza flat out stated he never trained before.

No, he didn't...

I'm pretty sure the "Frieza never trained before" thing is a retcon from Super.

Frieza in DBZ seemed to enjoy fighting quite a lot.

Well DBS is canon, so I believe we have to go with the retcon now. IIRC, Frieza didn't get his hands dirty in DBZ until all his army in Namek was defeated. I don't think he enjoys fighting, more like he does it as a last resort.

Meh, honestly I only accept DBS statements as canon when we are specifically talking about DBS characters or events. Aside from the fact that Super is "pre-written" by Toriyama, I think it breaks away from the original series as much or even more than GT ever did. It has some great additions to the lore, but I don't think it should ever be considered any more "canon" than DB Online, GT or filler. They are all alternate timelines, each with their own merits.

The manga ended with the Buu Saga and, after that, Toriyama himself has contributed to pretty much every sequel that has been done so far. So why should we prioritize one sequel instead of the other?

Those are just my two cents, but I think it hurts no one to just accept everything outside of the original manga as their own alternate timelines that are all canon in the multiverse.

This is coming from a guy who thinks Post-Crisis is better than Rebirth :P

Great post!

I believe there is no canon.

hmmm no

GT Was stated to be a continuation of the anime by its producer. and toriyama consider it a side story while aknowledging that thing happened afterward removing GT from the main continuity, whilest GT being connected to the films speak or itself

(and cant argue alternate timeline btw, because there are only 4 officially)

ROF was written as a what if continuation to the manga as stated by toriyama making DBS film continuity not canon either

DBS having manga and anime both cannot work because of the, again, official timeline chart that consist of only 4, so one is not. whether one DBS is canon or not or which one up to u specially since DBS has not retconned DBZ yet

DB online < not even worth mentioning reasons why its not canon

there is an official canon, but most fans ignore it to connect their favorite works

What do you mean by "official timeline"? Where dos that come from?

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Mee09

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