PH: Sentry (Speedster) vs Superboy Prime (CA1) VOTING

@speedster101: my vote also goes to speedster just to note cosmicallyaware is a great debater but In my opinion in this match speedster was superior just like himself said I didn't see enough or signifant evidences from cosmic (on iphone can't tag) for superboy to win while this couldn't be said about speedster he did show feats of telepathy/deconstruction from Sentry not to mention he had counters for SBP (feats cosmic showed) speed and strength

I liked it good job guys

@cosmicallyaware1: gets my vote.
I have to admit towards the start i think @speedster101 had the debate but CA1 really stepped up and truly showed what SBP can do and how he can win.
Brilliant debate and it was very difficult to decide. Unfortunately for Speedster101 i have always believed 1) DSS receives a lot of hype and 2) SBP would win in a fight so i believe that it meant i can agree and see CA1's debate more clearly and find it more believable.

lol.. i can see a little bias here... you should not vote in a match if you are biased.. you should vote purely on the debate presented in the CaV... not on your belief XD

@cosmicallyaware1: Would like to see you use another Dc character, or SBP again. @speedster101: No problem.

@darkseid1006: Ummm this is about who debated better not about how you feel about a character....

i fully know the rules of voting and i am not voting on my own opinion. I said it was a difficult decision but i still believe Cosmi's argument was better. I was simply saying too Speedster that due to the fact i agree with Cosmi on the subject (which i might add is the reason people vote after all you vote for which argument you can back and believe that's what the debate is intended to accomplish it's meant to make you believe there side) so that to get me too believe he had it at the beginning was impressive. I assure you if i thought Speedster debated better he'd have my vote.

NOTE- Speedster is well aware of my thoughts on this as a battle as i have had brief discussions with him about SBP vs Sentry and i was prepared to give him the win at the start even telling him in a separate thread that id been watching this debate and i thought he was doing better. Congrats to Cosmi for stepping it up after IMO Speedster initially gaining the upper hand.

@darkseid1006:

no problem.. cosmic had good reasons to win... i was just pointing out that your belief should not play a part in a vote at all..... the vote should be given purely on the debate presented.

@speedster101: No i know i can promise you that i believe Cosmi debated better. I was just letting you know i find it easier to visualize and agree with Cosmi's side of the argument but trust me if i thought you did better id give you the vote. In fact if it was just based of the first half id have given it too you as i even mentioned in another thread that you where doing better and id vote for you.
I promise that i am not voting based of personal opinion but if you feel it's unfair to count my vote that's understandable.

@darkseid1006: Ah, ok. A wouldve appreciated it if you didnt vote at all like TTBA and some others... Since you did...

Im not gonna discredit you, CA1 did infact do an awesome job, so ill let it slide, this time (lol kidding) ;p

But Your initial response reflected that you voted based on character alone.

Anyways thanks for te read!

@nathaniel_adam: thanks for the vote bro!

I beleive its now 5(me) to 7(cosmically)

@darkseid1006: bro, you're vote's fine. And thank you for the support.

@killerwasp: I have a CaV match with sovereign, but he has been away from the vine for a bit, he hasn't responded to any messages or PM's for some time now. bummer, that's my dude....

I showcase Marvel more, but I am equally a huge DC fan in all honesty. I will for sure use SBP again, and some of my favorite DC characters that I use in debates are: Firestorm, Black Adam, Alan Scott, Etrigan (although that was a long time ago), Martian Manhunter, Orion, Commander Steel, Captain Marvel/SHAZAM, and Cyborg Superman. Ones that I want to debate with that I have not yet but love? members of the L.S.H, Aquaman, JSA members (Jay Garrick, Damage, Atom Smasher, Sand, etc), Amazing Man, Bizzaro, and Creeper.

@cosmicallyaware1: Thats good.

@cosmicallyaware1: Voting you on this one but you have got few things wrong, specially in your last reply. Stuff like Thor being on Warrior Madness during Blood and Thunder , Odin actually clarifies Thor wasn't under Warrior Madness second last issue of the series, which allows Odin to try and save Thor because unlikely Warrior Madness which is incurable by outside means, Thor can now be cured.

I also do not agree with the Midguard serpent deconstruction specially the idea that it was "astral self" or MidGuard serpent is somehow smaller, when that was not true when the comics was written or Superboy Prime tearing Sentry limbs (Molecule Man ripped his molecules apart 3 times in a row and Sentry came back all 3 times, including healing his entire body after being shred to pieces during the fight).

But overall I think experience shows, @speedster101 started brilliantly but in a forum were people seem to give extreme emphasis to feats alone, he simply was at a huge disadvantage because the character did not really have feats , at least physically, on the same level.

okay then:

LAST callouts................really want to hear from some of you......

honestly calling out seems silly sometimes......but I really appreciate feedback from viners I know and respect. That being said, I have tagged some of you multiple times.......PLEASE DROP A VOTE and at least read and say why you don't feel like voting. I have a slight issue with tagging viners for voting, not hearing from them, and then getting tagged by them for votes in matches. If you would like me to take the time to read your matches to cast a vote, then be respectful and use the same courtesy.

@higorm@iragexcudder@veshark@wyldsong@tparks@killemall@darkraiden@frozen@dondave@sirfizzwhizz@floopay@rikr2@omgomgwtfwtf

@beatboks1@jashro44@wolverine08@dedmanwalkin@cjdavis103@comicstooge@claymore1998@joygirl@mysticmedivh@highaccuser@reaverlation@laflux@allstarsuperman@sightlessreality@juiceboks@nimamindtricks@hulkage@boschepg@heirtothekingdom@jacthripper@i_like_swords@pope052

Come on in gents (and a ladie) and give this one a read. One hell of a debate!!!!

@cosmicallyaware1: I've already voted on the thread..

@claymore1998: ah, thanks for boting man!

@speedster101: No worries friend, sorry the voting went again you, but wonderful job nonetheless =)

@claymore1998: Ya, cant win em all, especially against the best of the best like @cosmicallyaware1: im just glad my improvement is so notable! Especially since this was only my 2nd debate, (when it started, now ive done a good number)

@speedster101: that vote brings it closer my man. Seems like I keep helping you here lol. I honestly don't care how it turns out, I had a blast (plus considering how busy I am......I am going to suggest you advance in the tourney even if I take the majority of votes. I have too many other matches/Cav's to work on that need my attention. This match ate up a lot of my attention/time.) I just want to hear what others think of the work.........

@claymore1998: thanks for voting my friend!!!!! however, there is something:

but you have got few things wrong, specially in your last reply. Stuff like Thor being on Warrior Madness duringBlood and Thunder , Odin actually clarifies Thor wasn't under Warrior Madness second last issue of the series, which allows Odin to try and save Thor because unlikely Warrior Madness which is incurable by outside means, Thor can now be cured.

I also do not agree with the Midguard serpent deconstruction specially the idea that it was "astral self" or MidGuard serpent is somehow smaller, when that wasnot true when the comics was written

woah. hold on there. this needs to be discussed. I usually don't post something until after I have done research to be sure. We need to clear these statements up because I strongly believe you are wrong (sorry)!!!!!

@cosmicallyaware1: you want to forfeit??? If you have other priorities that's cool but just sayin this tourney is insanely stacked and winning would improve your already excellent HOF chances a lot IMO

lol my friend. Winning this will be tough.............there are other characters that no matter how good I debate, SBP cannot overcome (luckily I didn't face Monica Rambeau). I have a ton of CaV's goin on (BTW, we need to do one remember?) and keep signing up all the time. This debate was fun for three reasons: 1) I was able to showcase a character that I never have before. 2) I was able to refute Sentry, specifically DSS whom is..........hax. 3) I was able to meet and debate with a newer viner that is growing and doing well. It challenged me. Now about the HOF? You know that is my goal this year.........well. Let's see how this plays out in the end before I make my final decision then? I will give you that.

Hey, I thought there was no way you were going to defeat DSS either. But you did that.

Regarding our CaV... I'm so flooded right now and I'm out of town for a few days next week. SO I think we should wait on that.

I'll wait on your decision

@cosmicallyaware1: @speedster101:

Super Boy Prime gets my vote.

I thought cosmic provided more info/scans of SBP. SPB scans of punching through dimensions and ripping Anti-Monitor armor was superior than Sentry breaking apart Terrax's power cosmic axe.

There was a lot of extra comments that was like extra static to me in this battle outside of the contestants

@thenewbluebeetle007:

Hey, I thought there was no way you were going to defeat DSS either. But you did that.

ha. That was an uphill fight huh? But why do you think I requested that battle? Utmost faith in a character beating /or being able to beat a character. Glad to surprise you though. I've been known to do that on occasion........

Regarding our CaV... I'm so flooded right now and I'm out of town for a few days next week. SO I think we should wait on that

lol, me too honestly. I just bring it up to realize that it needs to happen one of these days (as holds true of many of my favorite vine mates.Just never enough time......) oh well....................as long as we do it one day that's all that matters I guess.....

I'll wait on your decision

We'll see what the vote count is when you decide to close voting/call the match. Maybe I'll lose by votes!!!!! Who knows. I have tagged viners in and it has been 50/50. Sometimes it boost me ahead, sometimes it helps speedster. I really don't care honestly, I just want feedback from some certain viners on how they thought the debate went (counters, context, grammer and structure, layouts, etc...)

@boschepg: UUUMMM... im sorry, but did you read the debate? The dimension smashing and the Anti-monitor feats were the reason you gave it to CA1? I mean he did awesome and I can understand you voting for him... But those feats were CLEARLY debunked (especially the Anit-Monitor feat, me AND CA1 stated AM was drastically weakened and I provided evidence)... I mean come on bro...

LOL. How was it an uphill battle? Prime has 3 times more feats than DSS. Too easy.

@boschepg:

Im also confused as to why you thought that him catching Terraxes axe was my best feat?... There was much more here bro...

@thenewbluebeetle007: @speedster101:

alright. Currently the vote count is:

Speedstar101: 6

Cosmicallyaware1: 8

IDK how long you want voting open TNBB, but there are a few that I tagged (well more than two actually) that I really want to know what they think. I hinge my battles on the opinions of a select group (@lvenger being one of them that voted already) and I gauge my progress as a debater by what they say (because I value their input and prowess).

Young one: here's a "gentlemen rule" on the vine: DO NOT REFUTE A VOTERS STANCE. It is..........uncouth. And embarasing. Seriously my man. You may disagree, and not see why they did what they did.....but discuss it in a PM.

While I think that it is appropriate to ask for feedback or politely request a little more specific vote (not try to sway it), I do agree that talking about a prticular argument is out of place.

But, boschepg's vote didn't indicate that he read it... and he did leave a similarly vague vote in another thread... but I'll still count it

Voting closes Sunday.

Regarding a CaV, CA1, in about 2 weeks I should be relatively free.. I'm in two separate tourney finals (with HigorM and beatboks) and a debate with beatboks1 as well as 2 amalgam tournaments and CaV with nima at the moment. at least 3 of those will be over by that time.

@speedster101: @cosmicallyaware1: Sorry for taking so long, I read through easier and have now come to a decision.

For the match I'm going to have to give it to @cosmicallyaware1.

Throughout the whole debate I felt that he better demonstrated his characters capabilities while also showing that his character could deal with its opponent. Speedster did a good job, but cosmic did a better one.

I'll try and read it tomorrow

This is a better debate than I initially thought. Speedster certainly is a fast learner (I've seen his last debate) and started off pretty well, but @cosmicallyaware1: has pretty good rebuttals, and has done a pretty good job with SBP, which is why I give him the vote.

Debates like this is fun to read.

@jacthripper: @baron_von_santa: Thanks for voting you guys!

@cosmicallyaware1 sorry man :/ your more than likely gonna win anywho (based on the voting stance atm). But I mean, honestly, that guys reasonings made literally NO SENSE AT ALL xD. And I told him and everyone else you did awesome and you deserve votes, I was questioning reasons for voting, not who he voted for.

@cosmicallyaware1: @speedster101: If you two agree on that, then his vote shouldn't count. This has happened before.

@cosmicallyaware1:

To keep it so I dont sway votes, I did read the whole battle. The overall strength aspect of SBP and that SBP shows more consistent speed in battle than Sentry does, who I believe shows speed up to his opponent. Sentry can achieve same level speed but on a regular basis SBP displays it more regularly. speed and strength will win. Im going to PM you both a scan regarding Sentry that I wont post here as it would sway votes.

If and when you are up for a discussion do let me know and I am pretty sure i am not wrong, specially something like Thor not being on Warrior Madness during Blood and Thunder, its very clearly written and demonstrated on panel.

Also since you posted someone else post on Midguard Serpent's instance, here is a different analysis of the same feat by a different debater, Killemall (post # 27, page 1)

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/akuma-and-sephiroth-vs-thor-1522393/

Not sure about superboy prime beating sentry . He has the more raw fire power and he doesn't have the other powers to take him down . Since Sbp wears Antimonitor armor sentry chances of draining him are pretty low . I think it's more of a stalemate.

it is a CaV tournament battle.. not a regular battle thread.

@skyroid: here ya go, beatboks 1 vs myself (it's in voting now)

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/stt-r1-tnbb-vs-beatboks1-1652908/?messageId=14229491&page=2#js-message-62

@thenewbluebeetle007: when shall we call it an end for voting on this today? @tparks@allstarsuperman : you guys said that you would read through and come back in......last chance mates.

@cosmicallyaware1: you're up by four.

in a couple of hours I'll close voting

Alright, I am here...sorry to take so long. So, this is where I am at, @speedster101, I will repeat what others have said, you have improved by leaps and bounds from past debates that I have seen. That being said, while I have seen improvement in your overall style, I was not feeling your arguments for DS Sentry.

@cosmicallyaware1, you actually won me over with your debate and reasoning for SBP pulling the win here. He is a tough customer to face off against in a debate, and you masterfully illustrated that here. You got my vote in this one.

-Sigh- Alright, I'll read everything over and give a vote.

@cosmicallyaware1: I think you won this one mate. Good job! Look forward to our future debates with/ against each other (really excited for our tag team)!

@wyldsong: If you dont mind what exactly werent you feeling? And what points didnt you get?

(Im curious, because maximizing the relevance of my feats is something im trying to work on)

Thanks in advance :)

@wyldsong: thanks for the vote mate. It was fun using SBP and challenging to face DSS, however you know I relish a challenge.

It was quite the debate my man, I thank you for making it interesting ;)

T4V

Excellent job to both. Although I think @cosmicallyaware1 had a slightly better debate, my vote goes to @speedster101. At the end of the day, Sentry should win based on the feats he showed and he explained why very well.