Perpetua vs Mandrakk

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#1 Edited by Sungsam (3209 posts) - - Show Bio

Perpetua vs Mandrakk

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What several Monitor Wankers and Debaters forget about Scott Snyder is that Scott Snyder is implyingly trying to replace Grant Morrison's precious Monitors with Perpetua and her brothers and sisters as the new big bads of DC. I made this thread.

Yes yes, it's all premature, Perpetua has no feats yet. But she is still more feared than the Monitors at the moment. You need not discuss yet, I just made this thread in the event for later when she DOES get feats.

Not that this matters in the LOONG run. There was a time when Michael and Lucifer dominated the cosmic powers of DC for a while, then they either died or got weak. The Monitors came, now this.

In the Snyder-Morrison continuum, it appears that Perpetua is in the Source Wall and Monitors in the Monitor Sphere. So by cosmic level, Perpetua is a tier above Mandrakk. But that's irrelevant.

LOCATION:

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Local DC Multiverse is the location of course.

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#2 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a mismatch, Perpetua stomps as of right now.

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#3 Posted by Supermanthor (22700 posts) - - Show Bio

@sungsam: it looks like with every new writer dc gets a new big cosmic bad and then completely screws the previous ones or ignore them

this is some marvel moves there they are useing

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#4 Posted by Mister_Surreal (12064 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#5 Posted by deactivated-5c7e935d3a5a1 (302 posts) - - Show Bio

Perpetua without trying

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#6 Posted by Sungsam (3209 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#7 Posted by Sungsam (3209 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#8 Posted by bdelloidgrain2 (1998 posts) - - Show Bio

@sungsam said:

Bump.

As of now, Perpetua wins this.

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#9 Posted by Sungsam (3209 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#10 Posted by Soratoumiga (4781 posts) - - Show Bio

Perpetua stomps. Effortlessly.

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#11 Posted by Supermanthor (22700 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont like mandrakk

thats enough for perpetua to win these let alone her power level

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#12 Posted by Yasindermann (1884 posts) - - Show Bio

Perpetua stomps.

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#13 Posted by deactivated-5cef1a02a31b9 (283 posts) - - Show Bio

Perpetua

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#14 Posted by termiteone4ever (13083 posts) - - Show Bio

You all read the scan and knows who she is.

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#16 Posted by etriel (568 posts) - - Show Bio

perpetua.

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#17 Posted by Kh0rn3 (378 posts) - - Show Bio

This is not just a stomp this is slaughter for perpetua

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#18 Posted by AnnamalHouse (602 posts) - - Show Bio

Mandrakk for now, till he see something that suggests otherwise

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#20 Posted by Yamiyodare (2446 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by deactivated-5d59ee082aecf (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe perpetua is mandrakks mommy so she wins.

as for the op questioning where Mikey and lucy are I have a theory on this so from what I'm told perpetua is the source there is a scan that I have that has lucifer going to the edge of creation so the 6th dimension in this case while he was out there the narrative says there is something out there called the source aka perpetua but he wasn't there for that in fact he ignored it. This to me says hey I hold nothing on you dude it's very possible that the brothers are the ones who created her just saying

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#22 Posted by FireStarLord73194 (5692 posts) - - Show Bio

Perpetua created the being that created the monitors. She is above Mandrakk

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#23 Posted by deactivated-5d5789e65ebaa (2099 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by Supermanthor (22700 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont like mandrakk

thats enough for perpetua to win these let alone her power level

wow such a bias

edit it was my own comment lol

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#26 Posted by TakenStew22 (4372 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor said:

i dont like mandrakk

thats enough for perpetua to win these let alone her power level

wow such a bias

edit it was my own comment lol

LMAO.

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#27 Posted by MichaelJulius (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

Perpetua isn't the Over Monitor. Where did that information come from? She isn't the original. She was already beaten by Monitor, Anti Monitor and The Forger.

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#28 Posted by AnnamalHouse (602 posts) - - Show Bio

I would actually go with mandrakk here.

And where are people getting perpetua created mandrakk?!

Mandrakk came straight from over monitor IIRC. Most likely same as perpetua, there more like siblings I would say

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#29 Posted by deactivated-5d59ee082aecf (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

I had a moment of confusion where I thought he was but that got cleared up he was created by the overmoniter she created the monitor brothers I got confused cause originally the overmoniter did and I could have sworn there was an interview connecting the 2 my bad I don't know if his birth would put him higher than her. But feats wise I go with her after she has yet to lose that badly to earth heroes at least she lost to darkseid props to him perhaps he won't need to hit the gym as hard as I thought

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#30 Edited by MichaelJulius (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

@y3kthunder: Please don't be mad at me, thunder...but, Morrison said a Death of the New Gods was apocryphal at best.

"Humorously enough, Grant reconciled this horrible lead-in to his story by positioning both Starlin's Death of the New Gods conclusion and the final issue of Countdown to Final Crisis as apocryphal versions of the same unseen story. Morrison also subtlety implied that the conflicting tales could be the result of the Monitors' interference mucking up the entire Cosmic Multiverse (a damning commentary if I ever heard one...).

So you have two ways to look at it. The first is that Monitor's screwed everything up in Final Crisis, which is exactly what happened, he is speaking directly about Mandrakk and the events of the Nil Monitors. Or, that it is totally non-canon to his cosmology.

None of that matters, because he resolved it in the last issue of Final Crisis when Nix Uotan simply put the Source back in its rightful place.

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Mandrakk judging and watching Perpetua and The Forger create

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He was watching the motions of Perpetua and The Forger the entire time and was unbothered, he was just feeding on their stories the entire time.

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Monitor of Nil explaining that the entire Flashpoint and Multiverse Arc of COIE was a Fiction they watched play out.

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Expounded more

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Here, they actually look upon Anti-Monitor at full power as just a thing to watch corrupt the Flaw.

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#31 Posted by deactivated-5d59ee082aecf (1384 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by MichaelJulius (1396 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by Spiderman1997 (2357 posts) - - Show Bio

I was just about to post a similar thread myself. I've just finished catching up with the JL run and I wonder: How does Mandrakk fit into all of this ?

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#34 Posted by MichaelJulius (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

He isn't part of the story at the moment, he exiled himself back in the Over Monitor. He went back home at the end of The Unexpected. But, he was made to judge Perpetua and report back to what she and her kids were doing with the Flaw. That was the entire reason he was made.

I was just about to post a similar thread myself. I've just finished catching up with the JL run and I wonder: How does Mandrakk fit into all of this ?

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#35 Posted by deactivated-5d59ee082aecf (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius: held a multiverse created the monitor brothers if anything he would be similar to a brother to her assuming she came straight from the void and it was said her brothers all feared her

Plus honestly not trying to low ball here he doesn't have good feats hurting cas with the heat of 10 billion suns sounds impressive but when theyre 200 billion in our galaxy alone seems horribly weak plus he got smashed by 7 lanterns one could agrue well anti monitor got hurt by flash supergirl etc but at least he legit ate universes. Its just to me he doesnt have feats to contend with her

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#36 Posted by MichaelJulius (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

@y3kthunder: The story of Superman is weak to red sunlight. There were no physics in Nil. And lastly, Superman used the Miracle Machine to wish for a happy ending and then Rox Ogama (that wasn't Mandrakk who fought the GL core, that was his brother) lost as soon as the machine turned on.

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#37 Edited by deactivated-5d59ee082aecf (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius: fairly certain that was mandrakk who lost he possessed his. Brothers body or something on the lines of that

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#38 Posted by MichaelJulius (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

@y3kthunder: Wasn't Mandrakk in body or power. Mandrakk was inside of the Over Monitor and was able to possess the mind of his brother, who was removed from Nil, along with all of his powers. Superman turned the Miracle Machine on. Rox Lost the fight.

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#39 Edited by Supermanthor (22700 posts) - - Show Bio

toss up

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#40 Edited by deactivated-5d59ee082aecf (1384 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Edited by MichaelJulius (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

@y3kthunder: Yes, a mind and essence possession. It was Mandrakk's last ditch effort to cause problems for Superman. He bodied the Spectre and the Radiant at the same time. And we are talking full power Crispus Allen, who with his full faith had the power of Creation. Rox Ogama was kicked out and his powers were unmade by the rest of the council of Nil. He lost his Monitor state and still did this.

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Rox depleted the entire GL core energy on contact as soon as they appeared, until the Miracle Machine was activated. Seconds later, Rox lost.

An immensely weakened with theie energy rings almost entirely depleted GL core > Spectre + Radiant is not a valid argument.

10 billion suns of heat (when superman repairs with Sunlight, unless its red sunlight) in a place without physics at all where two stories are battling and using that as a physical feat when the comic states clearly it wasnt, is also not a valid argument. The arguments here are that sunlight hurts superman and that the GL Core is vastly stronger than the combined force of the Spectre and the Radiant.............*mind blown

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#42 Edited by deactivated-5d59ee082aecf (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius: well couple things 1st to unclog the threads with chatter pm me also ive decided to re read all final crisis and so far from reading just one part it was mandrakk who lost to the lanterns superman confirms a few times that he is speaking to mandrakk his son nix also calls him mandrakk ill be back after im done reading

And if I remember correctly both spectre and radiant were empowered when he did that.

All blow your mind all you want ive seen monitor wankers call thhem above the overmoniter and mandrakk above them whos mind is more blown

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#43 Edited by MichaelJulius (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

@y3kthunder: Make sure you read Final Crisis Revealations, as well. Because in the timeline, Rox attacks Spectre shortly after the end of that comic.

You can call it wank all you want, but saying Superman is weak to sunlight and that the weakened GL core is stronger than the Spectre and the Radiant is a wank of biblical proportion. And ya, sure, from here on PM's are in order.

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#44 Posted by deactivated-5d59ee082aecf (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius: I didn't say he was I said he was depowered if anything.

And I didnt say that they were merely that they beat someone who was supposedly above that and everyone knows superman weak to red sunlight but why would a robot be its just has his mind I'm not the one saying a regular monitor above the overmoniter and mandrakk above that

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#45 Edited by MichaelJulius (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

@y3kthunder: I wasn't referring to you specifically. I was referring to the abundancy of "GL core beat Mandrakk" when on the previous page he bodied the Spectre and the Radiant. In Final Crisis: Resist, the GL core was off doing their own thing and had 24 hours to complete a mission before their entire power source (all of the GL cores power) was depleted. Nix Uotan teleported the entire GL core to his, Superman and Rox's location and somehow there are still users who really support:

Weakened GL Core > Spectre + Radiant combined. There is a lot of support for this.

Wasn't saying you specifically. Sorry if it came off that way.

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#46 Posted by deactivated-5d59ee082aecf (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius: that's fine noe if you'll excuse me for a bit ive some reading to do

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#47 Edited by somayareece (938 posts) - - Show Bio

Is Mandrakk this powerful? I thought Perpetua would win easily before clicking and I wasn't wrong

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#48 Edited by deactivated-5d59ee082aecf (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius: ok first thing ive just read final crisis beyond, zilla States that her race views there multiverse as stories not that theyre outside the comic they didnt leave the comic book then she brought superman to limbo where after reading the book of infinite pages along side ultra man they discover mandrakk and they fuse minds inside the robot which is inside the monitor sphere which turns out to be inside the source wall according to Morrisons map which has been confirmed even by mxy to be 4D perpetua is outside in the 6D yes in the story it said he fell into the overmoniter which actually maybe be the monitor sphere which means perpetua>overmoniter if I'm right

Just read resist lot of stuff on darkseid not the stuff I was looking for so I'll be back again at some point

So far no a 4D being himself isnt gonna touch her

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#49 Edited by MichaelJulius (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

@y3kthunder:

@y3kthunder said:

@michaeljulius: ok first thing ive just read final crisis beyond, zilla States that her race views there multiverse as stories not that theyre outside the comic they didnt leave the comic book

Morrison: Yeah, it's a bit of that. It's also the idea that they're like angels as well. For me, the cool, essential idea of all stories being real creates this great cosmology to play with. It's the notion that the white page itself is a void, and in the context of the DC Universe, well that's God or The Source. In the white page, or the void, anything can happen, everything is possible. As I dug down closer to the very root of the activity I find myself engaged in as a career, I was thinking "what is the basis of the comic book story? What actually is it?"

In the case of comic book stories, it's the war between white page and ink. And who's to say that the page might want that particular story drawn on it? [laughs] What happens if the page is a bit pissed off at the story that's drawn on it? So I thought of the page as God. The idea being that the Overvoid – as we called it in Final Crisis - of the white page as a space is sort of God. And it's condensing stories out of itself because it finds inside its own gigantic white space, self-absorbed pristine consciousness, it finds this little stain or mark, this DC Multiverse somebody has 'drawn'.

then she brought superman to limbo where after reading the book of infinite pages along side ultra man they discover mandrakk and they fuse minds inside the robot which is inside the monitor sphere which turns out to be inside the source wall according to Morrisons map

No. Captain Atom fuses symmetries with them and broadcasts their signal to Nil.

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which has been confirmed even by mxy to be 4D perpetua is outside in the 6D yes in the story it said he fell into the overmoniter which actually maybe be the monitor sphere which means perpetua>overmoniter if I'm right

So far no a 4D being himself isnt gonna touch her

No. It literally states he was made to watch over the other Monitors.

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Morrison: Yeah. Again, on the very edge of the art and the edge of the mind of God there are these two big concepts fighting – Superman and Mandrakk, Predation and Protection, Greed and Preservation, Ugly and Beautiful, Youth and Age, Good and Evil, Black and White, Is and Isn't and all the others. Beyond that crumbling ledge in Monitor-World, those concepts don't exist and it's all non-dual Monitor mind, or God, or Kirby's Source, in which all contradictions are resolved into unity. It's funny, the more I talk about it, the more I'm getting into it!

Mandrakk is still top dog

Morrison: They're all devils. Again, in doing these kinds of stories I went directly to, "Okay, what's the culture's idea of evil?" And it's always the devil in some form, the menacing Other. Darkseid's the kind of apocalyptic evil, the Biblical evil that spreads itself through whole cultures and brings them to their knees. Dr. Hurt's evil is the fear of the bad person out there who knows everything about you, someone who hates you, wants to f--k up your life, has the resources and cannot be reasoned with. And then Mandrakk is actually the ultimate evil where there's no hope. The grave. He's entropy, I suppose. No matter how hard you try, this entity will consume the universe and you'll be sucked into the gaping, bulging Black Hole of Mandrakk

At this point, mate, nothing else can possibly be stated. The author insists this character is the alpha of the Monitors, that Perpetua is not the Over Monitor, James and Scott right now are working with Grant on the cosmology and all are in agreeance. Grant also worked in Vertigo. The last 6 Vertigo writers are now working with Grant, Scott and James and all are in agreeance on the new cosmology without retconning anything major.

The other big mistake made was that the Source Wall you are referencing, was not in the Monitor Sphere. It was around each universe, which lead to the Bleedspace, which is what The Dark Knight Metal was all about and what Mandrakk eats. You assumed incorrectly they meant the Nil Source Wall. That is not correct. The entire last generation of DC was about the Source Wall around each universe being fake and leading to Bleedspace. It was the biggest plot points of 2015-to right now.

The last point I will make is that you are finalizing the cosmic map when in the interview I have shown you now about 11 times, Grant says he left the Source area open for other writers to fill in. Yet, 99% of enthusiasts around here fully ignore that and take it as a final barrier. Nobody reads the articles posted it seems. I've compliled a ton of evidence for you so you can do with it what you will :)

Wish you the very best of luck on the discussion, I feel like we've both said our pieces and can't sway the other. :)

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#50 Edited by deactivated-5d59ee082aecf (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

Apparrently not you need to re read superman beyond zilla specifically states they view the multiverse as stories they never left the overmoniter is the monitor sphere which is inside the source wall this was even shown Morrisons map they fight in the sphere mxy states everything in the multiverse is 4D and perpetua is above that hate it as you want but looky here seems like there already changing things dont blame me I love finding context for things perpetua and mxy both stomp him others do to but I need not go there