Perpetua vs Eternity

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gabrielsantox

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two powerful entities which one wins?

explanation

i want blood.

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Yamiyodare

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Perpetua blinks.

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Ramakushna

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Perpetua blinks the marvel verse

wait till someone post low showing of perpetua from when she's not full power

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deactivated-621c40d36c53f

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Perpetua created a Multiverse larger than Eternity with Void manipulation.

Eternity has no feats affecting beings infinitely bigger than he is. And he is equal to a Void.

And Perpetua has created a Multiverse larger than an eternity sized Multiverse.

So Perpetua > Eternity.

One is beyond the Multiverse, one is the Multiverse. So there.

See? That was easy. No mental gymnastics.

Scans from the Marvel side showing energy and physics, matter destruction are meaningless against a literal, Void Manipulator.

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cosmic_reign

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Perpetua should be beyond Eternity!

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crackshotboi

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Perpetua blinks

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thebeyonder1

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perpetua is hillariously above the likes of even mxy which can give 95% of marvel a run for its money.

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deactivated-5f5be9e305ddd

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LeopoldFitz

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Perpetua never created a multiverse as big as eternity of the eight multiverse, Eight cosmos encompass all of the dc multiverse and even has a souce wall of it's own which is the Neutral zone and the void outside creation which is the outside.

Perpetua is a void manipulator but eternity has the entirety of the void inside of it.

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LeopoldFitz

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@etriel: Perpetua never created a multiverse as big as eternity of the eight multiverse, Eight cosmos encompass all of the dc multiverse and even has a souce wall of it's own which is the Neutral zone and the void outside creation which is the outside.

Perpetua is a void manipulator but eternity has the entirety of the void inside of it

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Beckoned

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Perpetua blinks the marvel verse

wait till someone post low showing of perpetua from when she's not full power

"Everything I don't approve of is a low showing."

At near full power (Her own words: "All but a fraction of my power has returned to me.") she exhausted all of her Crisis Energy destroying one universe. Enough to take out Eternity? Sure. Enough to conquer the entire Marvel Multiverse? No.

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xearesay

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#12  Edited By xearesay

@beckoned: Thats not the point. The point is that a near full powered Perpetua still isn’t a full powered Perpetua. And as stated by the literal author Perpetua was literally diminished after being depowered.

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ProfessorRespect

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Eternity, ofc.

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Beckoned

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#14  Edited By Beckoned

@xearesay said:

@beckoned: Thats not the point. The point is that a near full powered Perpetua still isn’t a full powered Perpetua.

So what? If she is at 99% of her power (or whatever qualifies as being nearly-fully powered) you're effectively arguing that the 1% she's missing is going to do more for her than the 99% she has.

We don't know how much effort or time it took on Prepetua's part when she first created the Universe (that split into the Multiverse) and Anti-Matter Universe. But for some reason some assume that she did it at the snap of a finger. And when they're confronted with evidence that destroying a universe is still an arduous process for her (even when she only misses a fraction of her power) they reject it because it doesn't make sense with their baseless perception of her creating universes with the snap of her fingers.

Author comments on social media platforms (especially for licences they don't themselves own) does not take precedence over published material that has gone through editorial. I enjoy author commentary as much as everyone else, but it still has to fall within the confines of the story they've written for it to hold any validity, they can't retroactively change what's established with their interpretations.

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AllHellKingDox

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Perpetua blinks eternity is just basic abstract level he gets washed

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xearesay

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#16  Edited By xearesay

@beckoned:

So what? If she is at 99% of her power (or whatever qualifies as being nearly-fully powered) you're effectively arguing that the 1% she's missing is going to do more for her than the 99% she has.

Well it you have to analyze how a character power levels works since not every characters power level works like some battery. Being near full power doesn't mean there can't be a gap between the two states of power. Goku for example goes through different transformations which bring him to different states of power. Goku at Super Saiyan blue can be considered "near full power" because he's one state away from Ultra instinct. However does that mean we should conclude there's a negligible difference between Super Saiyan blue and Ultra instinct?

This same logic is what I'm talking about with Perpetua. At full powered state she can create the entire Multiverse and hold it in the palm of her hands. At a not full powered state, she was nothing like this. It's very clear that a full powered Perpetua is completely different from a not a full powered Perpetua. Meaning even if she is near that full powered, she's still not the same as when she's at full power. Making it misleading and incorrect to ignore the clear as day difference between the two.

We don't know how much effort or time it took on Prepetua's part when she first created the Universe (that split into the Multiverse) and Anti-Matter Universe. But for some reason some assume that she did it at the snap of a finger. And when they're confronted with evidence that destroying a universe is still an arduous process for her (even when she only misses a fraction of her power) they reject it because it doesn't make sense with their baseless perception of her creating universes with the snap of her fingers.

Actually it's kind of implied that it was quick thing. As shown she's the hand that Krona see's which dips down and instantly makes the DCU.

Author comments on social media platforms (especially for licences they don't themselves own) does not take precedence over published material that has gone through editorial. I enjoy author commentary as much as everyone else, but it still has to fall within the confines of the story they've written for it to hold any validity, they can't retroactively change what's established with their interpretations.

I agree with this actually. However I don't need an author statement to prove my point. The author statement was just to add extra clarity and evidence.

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Albion21

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eternity is more impressive than that fodder

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Beckoned

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#18  Edited By Beckoned

@xearesay:

Well it you have to analyze how a character power levels works since not every characters power level works like some battery. Being near full power doesn't mean there can't be a gap between the two states of power.

In this case it very much works like a battery because Perpetua channeled Crisis Energy. That's what she gathered and that's what she exhausted.

That said, there's a limit to how far you can reasonably push an interpretation before you have to substantiate it with evidence.

Goku for example goes through different transformations which bring him to different states of power. Goku at Super Saiyan blue can be considered "near full power" because he's one state away from Ultra instinct. However does that mean we should conclude there's a negligible difference between Super Saiyan blue and Ultra instinct?

Yes, but those are scalars. He's not "nearly at full power" in his base form, in fact he's arguably not even at a percentage of his full capacity. And let's not engage in sophistry. Nearly full power here means "all but a fraction," those were the words used, the implication is at least 50% (anything else would be more than one fraction) and it's likely substantially less than that based on the phrasing.

This same logic is what I'm talking about with Perpetua. At full powered state she can create the entire Multiverse and hold it in the palm of her hands. At a not full powered state, she was nothing like this. It's very clear that a full powered Perpetua is completely different from a not a full powered Perpetua. Meaning even if she is near that full powered, she's still not the same as when she's at full power. Making it misleading and incorrect to ignore the clear as day difference between the two.

"Holding the multiverse in the palm of her hand" is a common trope without any means of quantification that doesn't rely heavily on conjecture, and we never saw her create the universe/multiverse. All we saw her do is exhaust her power at near full power. And she spoke of it as if it was a grand event worthy of reverence, and not something of infinitesimal significance like you imply.

Actually it's kind of implied that it was quick thing. As shown she's the hand that Krona see's which dips down and instantly makes the DCU.

That was simply the universe splitting into the multiverse. The multiverse wasn't "greater" than the universe, that's why the Anti-Monitor could use the Anti-Matter Universe to destroy it.

I agree with this actually. However I don't need an author statement to prove my point. The author statement was just to add extra clarity and evidence.

To what, in particular? She was barely able to destroy a single universe at near full power. At this level she was beyond the Ultra-Monitor, the fusion of the Monitor, the Anti-Monitor and the World Forger. There's nothing in the story to imply that she ever had powers significantly greater than this save for the vague references to her role in the creation and reboots of the universe/multiverse.

And let's not forget her battle against Batman Who Laughs.

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deactivated-61696bba064e9

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Perpetua.

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xearesay

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@beckoned:

In this case it very much works like a battery because Perpetua channeled Crisis Energy. That's what she gathered and that's what she exhausted.

I could see her having to gather her power like a battery. However this doesn't really address the main point.

He's not "nearly at full power" in his base form, in fact he's arguably not even at a percentage of his full capacity.

I never said at his base. I said at Super Saiyan blue, you could say Goku is near his full power which is when he reaches Ultra Instinct.

And let's not engage in sophistry. Nearly full power here means "all but a fraction," those were the words used, the implication is at least 50% (anything else would be more than one fraction) and it's likely substantially less than that based on the phrasing.

I wasn't engaging in sophistry. And I know what nearly full power here means. However like I said before, that doesn't deny the fact that there is still a gap in performance between the two states that makes acting like there's negligible difference incorrect.

"Holding the multiverse in the palm of her hand" is a common trope without any means of quantification that doesn't rely heavily on conjecture, and we never saw her create the universe/multiverse.

It showcases how grand she is of a being. That she can hold the entire Multiverse in the palm of her hand like a delicate object. Something that definitely takes effort btw. Also we did see her create everything at the dawn of creation.

That was simply the universe splitting into the multiverse. The multiverse wasn't "greater" than the universe, that's why the Anti-Monitor could use the Anti-Matter Universe to destroy it.

I think you're a little confused. Krona going back to witness the dawn of creation is what caused the universe to split into a multiverse. However the dawn of creation itself is still the creation of the entire Multiverse.

To what, in particular?

That she was not at full power.

There's nothing in the story to imply that she ever had powers significantly greater than this save for the vague references to her role in the creation and reboots of the universe/multiverse.

And let's not forget her battle against Batman Who Laughs.

Except the part where...

At full power: Created the entire Multiverse.

Not full powered: Beat the Monitor Brothers, caused Bleed Space to fall a part, and fought The Darkest Knight in a battle that was going to destroy the Multiverse.

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Deagonx

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#21  Edited By Deagonx

However like I said before, that doesn't deny the fact that there is still a gap in performance between the two states that makes acting like there's negligible difference incorrect.

Perpetua herself says the difference is negligible.

That she can hold the entire Multiverse in the palm of her hand like a delicate object. Something that definitely takes effort btw.

Sure, but it's unquantifiable and not evidence in a battle.

At full power: Created the entire Multiverse.

Creating the multiverse required her using power that was granted to her, not her own individual power as a Super Celestial. She says this outright several times, and likewise creation is not a combat feat. A being who can create a multiverse can't necessarily destroy it.

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Beckoned

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#22  Edited By Beckoned
No Caption Provided

Perpetua literally states, "I can create and destroy as I did so long ago."

The implication that she was still significantly diminished is far removed from the story being told.

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xearesay

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#23  Edited By xearesay

@beckoned:

Perpetua literally states, "I can create and destroy as I did so long ago."

The implication that she was still significantly diminished is far removed from the story being told.

Yes she was able to create and destroy just as she did long ago, however the problem wasn't about whether she had the power to create and destroy. The problem was that, in this not full powered state, Perpertua would need to constantly regather her own energy. Meaning even though she can create and destroy as she did so long ago, she still lacked the ability to sustain her power in this state. Something that wasn't a problem for her when she was at full power, as evidence from the fact that she could create the entire Multiverse at once.

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ITACHI_IS_GAWD

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elvinisaev42

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#25  Edited By elvinisaev42

Eternity

Batman Who Laughs is able to defeat Perpetua, not to mention she is multiverse level. I forgot to point out Superboy Prime dominated Batman Who Laughs.

No Caption Provided

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/respect-eternity-embodiment-of-the-marvel-multiver-2094644/

Dc has multiversal. Not anything higher than that.

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SuperPrimeTime

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Eternity

Batman Who Laughs is able to defeat Perpetua, not to mention she is multiverse level. I forgot to point out Superboy Prime dominated Batman Who Laughs.

No Caption Provided

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/respect-eternity-embodiment-of-the-marvel-multiver-2094644/

Dc has multiversal. Not anything higher than that.

That’s a straight up lie

The Dark multiverse alone can house mutliple multiverses with infinite universes. In trinity crisis we saw the dark multiverse house Superboy prime, Anti-monitor and Darkseids personal mutliverses.

The 6th dimension can also hold a mutliverse inside, it literally had a mutliverse made by world forget made inside of it.

The 5th dimension and its imps all have there own mutliverses and universes inside the 5th dimension.

The orrery holds mutliple universes the new 52 mutliverse is just one mutliverse inside the orrery, as is explained by Grant Morrison mutliverse-2 was another mutliverse bubble that was in the orrery but it was destroyed by the empty hand.

It’s also confirmed in an interview of Scott snyder About the 52 local universe being one bubble in the orrery and he states the orrery can have infinite universe and the dark mutliverse can have Beyond infinite and this is proven in trinity crisis.

The anti-matter universe is as large as a mutliverse with infinite universes as is explained in COIE when Snti-monitors realm expanded to fill the mutliverse and it still does all universes currently take the same space but function under different frequencies which is string theory.

The sphere of the Gods is larger then infinite universes, the same can be said about all vibrational realms in DC.

At least do research.

Perpetua>DC multiverse>Marvel Multiverse

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WhiteLantern#1

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Eternity.

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Supermanwithatan01

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SuperPrimeTime

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deactivated-60f8a948a0372

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Perpetua.

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Vegitoblue

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Perpetua

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elvinisaev42

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@superprimetime: It is still multiversal. Dc does have hyper-time. All those characters are multiversal.

Batman Who Laughs defeated Perpetua with Doctor manhattan's power, which I multiversal.

How much I loved Death Metal. Scott is writing fan-fiction.

Otherwise Pre-52/Vertigo Comics wiped Batman Who laughs from the page.

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elvinisaev42

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@superprimetime: It is still multiversal. Dc does have hyper-time. All those characters are multiversal.

Batman Who Laughs defeated Perpetua with Doctor manhattan's power, which I multiversal.

How much I loved Death Metal. Scott is writing fan-fiction.

Otherwise Pre-52/Vertigo Comics wiped Batman Who laughs from the page.

Your explanation is poor.

Multiverses aren’t made equal.

Like I said the dark mutliverse by itself is larger, the 5th dimension Is larger, the 6th dimension is just as large, the orrery is just as large, the sphere of the gods is larger, the anti-matter verse is larger etc.

The DC mutliverse as I described is a lot larger then the marvel one so your logic is flawed.

Even Barbatos alone is capable of destroying mutliple mutliverses each with infinite universes that spawn in the dark mutliverse.

And your scans explaining eternity don’t put him above Perpetua, comparing a mutliverse with infinite universes to a multiverse with mutliple different dimensions larger then infinite universes is hilarious.

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elvinisaev42

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@superprimetime: The Dark Multiverse isn't stable. They are worlds meant to die. Barbatos just collected individuals.

No Caption Provided

Eternity is far stronger. It isn't vague.

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SuperPrimeTime

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#36  Edited By SuperPrimeTime

@elvinisaev42 said:

@superprimetime: The Dark Multiverse isn't stable. They are worlds meant to die. Barbatos just collected individuals.

No Caption Provided

Eternity is far stronger. It isn't vague.

Incorrect Barbatos is the reason they die, he creates entropy that destroys entire mutliverses in the dark mutliverse.

Thats his entire purpose for being created by the world forger he was made to destroy the dark multiverses that world forger made by mistake.

No Caption Provided

They are all stable as long as Barbatos isn’t destroying them that’s how Dark Nights Metal even started he decided not to destroy them and the evil batmen decided to leave once they became aware of their circumstances.

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SuperPrimeTime

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@elvinisaev42:Just to reiterate how much of a spite this is Mxy was weakened by Barbatos’s presence and couldn’t assist in Dark nights metal.

When Perpetua showed up her presence was destroying the entire 5th dimension and killing the 5th dimensional imps.

Perpetua in death metal chained up Barbatos.

And keep in mind he was purposefully taken out of the dark multiverse so that the trinity crisis worlds would remain stable.

Meaning if he was there he would’ve destroyed the trinity crisis worlds which had True form darkseid, Creator Anti-monitor and Superboy Prime.

Mxy < Trinity Crisis TF Darkseid <= Creator Anri-monitor < Barbatos < Perpetua

And even Mxy could arguably beat Eternity and Barbatos definitely would. Let alone Perpetua

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iknowwhoyouare

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Perpetua stomps

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Deagonx

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Something that wasn't a problem for her when she was at full power, as evidence from the fact that she could create the entire Multiverse at once.

This is incorrect and a misrepresentation of the evidence. She was able to create the entire multiverse with the power and raw materials granted to her by the Source, not of her own power. She stated on panel that the level she was at (destroying one universe at a time) was significantly close to her full power.

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SladerAcer

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Perp stomps

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UltraPhoenix

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Eternity wins

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elvinisaev42

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#42  Edited By elvinisaev42

@superprimetime said:
@elvinisaev42 said:

@superprimetime: The Dark Multiverse isn't stable. They are worlds meant to die. Barbatos just collected individuals.

No Caption Provided

Eternity is far stronger. It isn't vague.

Incorrect Barbatos is the reason they die, he creates entropy that destroys entire mutliverses in the dark mutliverse.

Thats his entire purpose for being created by the world forger he was made to destroy the dark multiverses that world forger made by mistake.

No Caption Provided

They are all stable as long as Barbatos isn’t destroying them that’s how Dark Nights Metal even started he decided not to destroy them and the evil batmen decided to leave once they became aware of their circumstances.

@superprimetime said:

@elvinisaev42:Just to reiterate how much of a spite this is Mxy was weakened by Barbatos’s presence and couldn’t assist in Dark nights metal.

When Perpetua showed up her presence was destroying the entire 5th dimension and killing the 5th dimensional imps.

Perpetua in death metal chained up Barbatos.

And keep in mind he was purposefully taken out of the dark multiverse so that the trinity crisis worlds would remain stable.

Meaning if he was there he would’ve destroyed the trinity crisis worlds which had True form darkseid, Creator Anti-monitor and Superboy Prime.

Mxy < Trinity Crisis TF Darkseid <= Creator Anri-monitor < Barbatos < Perpetua

And even Mxy could arguably beat Eternity and Barbatos definitely would. Let alone Perpetua

Have you read the comic scan. It says Barbatos destroys worlds one by one.

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SuperPrimeTime

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#43  Edited By SuperPrimeTime

@elvinisaev42 said:
@superprimetime said:
@elvinisaev42 said:

@superprimetime: The Dark Multiverse isn't stable. They are worlds meant to die. Barbatos just collected individuals.

No Caption Provided

Eternity is far stronger. It isn't vague.

Incorrect Barbatos is the reason they die, he creates entropy that destroys entire mutliverses in the dark mutliverse.

Thats his entire purpose for being created by the world forger he was made to destroy the dark multiverses that world forger made by mistake.

No Caption Provided

They are all stable as long as Barbatos isn’t destroying them that’s how Dark Nights Metal even started he decided not to destroy them and the evil batmen decided to leave once they became aware of their circumstances.

@superprimetime said:

@elvinisaev42:Just to reiterate how much of a spite this is Mxy was weakened by Barbatos’s presence and couldn’t assist in Dark nights metal.

When Perpetua showed up her presence was destroying the entire 5th dimension and killing the 5th dimensional imps.

Perpetua in death metal chained up Barbatos.

And keep in mind he was purposefully taken out of the dark multiverse so that the trinity crisis worlds would remain stable.

Meaning if he was there he would’ve destroyed the trinity crisis worlds which had True form darkseid, Creator Anti-monitor and Superboy Prime.

Mxy < Trinity Crisis TF Darkseid <= Creator Anri-monitor < Barbatos < Perpetua

And even Mxy could arguably beat Eternity and Barbatos definitely would. Let alone Perpetua

Have you read the comic scan. It says Barbatos destroys worlds one by one.

That really doesn’t matter, why would you assume he’s using maximum power at all times.

Regardless it doesn’t change my statements as Barbatos is the reason all universes and multiverses in the dark mutliverse die.

So the Trinity Criais worlds the TODM IC are mutliverses with infinite universe which barbatos has destroyed

Also you forgot Barbatos IS WEAKENED in that scan, that’s post dark nights metal.

Your statement didn’t rebuttal anything to put it simply and why did you quote both my posts ?

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SuperPrimeTime

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#44  Edited By SuperPrimeTime

@elvinisaev42: And like I said that’s besides the point so don’t drag it.

The main point is the DC mutliverse is much larger then the Marvel one which Perpetua made.

Just the Dark multiverse alone is larger then the Marvel multiverse and there are other realms as larger or larger too.

Dark multiverse, 6th dimension, 5th dimension, sphere of the gods, limbo, orrery, anti-matter verse etc.

Barbatos by himself is arguably stronger then eternity let alone Perpetua.

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elvinisaev42

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#47  Edited By elvinisaev42

@superprimetime: Yet, Batman Who Laughs admitted Superboy-Prime was stronger. The same Batman Who Laughs who defeated Perpetua. Dc Comics depowered many of their characters, and empower others.

Marvel is very very big. You haven't read a lot of marvel haven't you. Dc really doesn't explore cosmology.

source of the scans.

https://topstrongest.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TheAsgardianBrony/Mini_Marvel_Cosmology_Blog

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SuperPrimeTime

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#48  Edited By SuperPrimeTime

@elvinisaev42 said:

@superprimetime: Yet, Batman Who Laughs admitted Superboy-Prime was stronger. The same Batman Who Laughs who defeated Perpetua. Dc Comics depowered many of their characters, and empower others.

Marvel is very very big. You haven't read a lot of marvel haven't you. Dc really doesn't explore cosmology.

source of the scans.

https://topstrongest.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TheAsgardianBrony/Mini_Marvel_Cosmology_Blog

That’s not a debunk for a start

Saying Superboy prime beat someone who treats beings like Barbatos like a pet chained to a wall just means Prime was written stronger then usual.

There was no evidence of anyone being weakened just prime being stronger were did you get that headcanon?

Also that has absolutely nothing to do with the size of DC, and your evidence only suggests it’s as large as the orrery at best which as Morrison and Scott said is larger then infinity and it has FEATS of actually being that large

Nevermind your just using classic statements which are null and void currently, what Part of your scans made you think it was at the same level as dark mutliverse which is stated to be BEYOND infinity by Scott and Morrison.

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elvinisaev42

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@superprimetime:

Read the scans. Marvel is way way bigger. It isn't a vague thing beyond infinity. The statement is a hyperbole.

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@superprimetime: I suggest you read this. Apparently you know little about the marvel universe.

https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-Marvel-Multiverse-work