Perpetua and Pralaya vs Featherine Augustus Aurora

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CyberpunkCop

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the rules

  • Takes place in a neutral multiverse
  • in character
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Supermanthor

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Duo

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gabrielthelord

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deactivated-5e0e83bb0dbb5

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deactivated-5cb40c2f93fe2

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Pralaya at her true form can either solo or survive featherine. No amount of hax can logically affect something that isnt truly anything at all and is propertyless.

Perpetua is too much of an unknown right now.

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jamespacker

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DivinePixelBook

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Ew featherine stomps

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zgtfreak

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I know that Pralaya is like the embodiment of nothingness and whatnot, but she still seems effected by the platonic concept of change. Aurora can halt the very platonic concept of change itself by halting reality:

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And this isn't merely stopping time, as it says she stops reality in the same sense as the pages of a book stop turning:

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And of course, Aurora can use Truths (aka can make anything she wants to be true within reason) like everyone else and can revive from platonic conceptual erasure.

I heard that Pralaya is above all platonic concepts and whatnot like Lucifer and Michael, but I've heard people say the opposite as well, so I'm not sure.

And what can Perpetua do exactly?

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Warlockmage

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#9 Warlockmage  Online

still Featherine... waiting for the DC Cosmology wank to subside, we're probably still in it for maybe another year

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zgtfreak

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@warlockmage: I mean cosmology is pretty irrelevant in cross-verse scenarios anyways due to several problems. Plus hax are more important than cosmology anyways.

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gabrielsantox

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Perpetua and Pralaya Wins.

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El_mago

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perpetua and pralaya yes

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NightwingX

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Featherine stomps Perpetua easily. No idea about Pralaya.

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DrakoTheGhoul

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@zgtfreak: I agree with you to a certain extent with Pralaya but only because the op says in-character and didn't say they start at their full power.

Pralaya in character is too overconfident and likes to gloat so she likely get the same treatment as she did with Swamp Thing and the world tree, if and only if Featherine really can replicate what happened on the same level and scale. That's not to say she can destroy Pralaya or anything similar for the lack of better words but that she could stall/halt Pralaya indefinitely until Featherine herself cease to exist(which is never correct?).

As for Perputua... She's a bag of disappointment imo. I'll wait for Death Metal to conclude first to see what happens but at the rate she's going she's going to be one of the most underwhelming, overhyped, higher dimensional beings in DC.

I mean she's scared/can be harmed by energy that came from the Multiverse which she herself supposedly created and has "absolute" control over atleast that's what others like to say on here anyway. Then add in that she didn't even know that the Justice League survived with the help of the Spectre and his buddies but she's supposedly The Supreme overlord of the current DC Main Multiverse? Really.

Sorry for the wall of text but Perputua gets way too much hype and the made up comparisons between her and Pralaya need to stop as their fundamentally different beings with different functions.

OT- Featherine either could win under these conditions or it ends in a stalemate between her and Pralaya. This is if and only if she can replicate The World Tree feat on the same level and even then she doesn't actually destroy Pralaya but more so stall her forever.

If she can't then Pralaya should erase her and i don't mean like she's in a state of Death but still has thoughts so she can come back, i mean erased where there's no thoughts or concepts possible in a sea of Nothingness.

Perputua for me currently is still a non factor until she actually does something to beings on her actual level or near enough(not her children). Hopefully in Death Metal it gives her some challenges to see the extent of her powers or to flush her out some because i lose interest in her character more and more as time and issues with her release.

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zgtfreak

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#15  Edited By zgtfreak

@drakotheghoul: Pralaya in character is too overconfident and likes to gloat so she likely get the same treatment as she did with Swamp Thing and the world tree, if and only if Featherine really can replicate what happened on the same level and scale. That's not to say she can destroy Pralaya or anything similar for the lack of better words but that she could stall/halt Pralaya indefinitely until Featherine herself cease to exist(which is never correct?).

She stopped change itself casually and without effort as a first response to an enemy way beneath her. She can definitely keep it up indefinitely. Especially since Witches to do not tire/lose stamina or energy. She can also possibly end Pralaya simply by thinking "Pralaya does not exist anymore" with Truths, which makes what she decides true. Not saying this will 100% work, as I know little of Pralaya, but just some food for thought. And since Aurora can revive from boundless platonic conceptual erasure, Pralaya would need something extremely specific to stop her from reviving, like her herself also manipulating what is true, which could stop Aurora from reviving if Pralaya made it truth that "Aurora can't revive." But I doubt she's shown anything like this. She could stomp if she manipulates the very meaning of platonic concepts like Lucifer and Michael, but I'm not sure if she is at this level or not.

If she can't then Pralaya should erase her and i don't mean like she's in a state of Death but still has thoughts so she can come back, i mean erased where there's no thoughts or concepts possible in a sea of Nothingness.

Meta-World entities can retain their mind in the Sea of Oblivion, which is true nothingness and still come back.

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DrakoTheGhoul

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Pralaya is above Lucifer though so if you think Lucifer beats Featherine already than Pralaya is the clear winner here. I know many won't agree but the fact that she erases The Creator(who could only be said to be The Presence in her Canon at that time) and all of DCs creation over and over again and bring it into herself which is the Void of Infinite Nothingness beyond all of creation would easily put her above Lucifer who he himself is somewhat vulnerable to The influence of Voids to a extent(see in Vertigo in both of Lucifer's run).

With the Meta-World stuff I'll just take you word on it as i don't too much dabble in Meta stuff. As for the Sea of Oblivion, how does it compare with the scan below?

For Truths, I'm not so sure they would even work on Pralaya as She's this below as well and there's no way to actually "end" Pralaya(in the way you said with her ceasing to exist as you know she's nothingness) that's why i said she can be stalled/halted but she'll erase every single thing until there's nothing at all. Unless Featherine got some outrageous feat somewhere of destroying a Void of Infinite Nothingness that's beyond all forms of Space and Time:

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DrakoTheGhoul

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#17  Edited By DrakoTheGhoul

@zgtfreak: forgot to quote lol. My post is above.

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Youraverageguy

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@zgtfreak Alright, the main reason why there are so many different interpretation of Pralaya's feats is because she is based on the sea of nothingness/the hinduu void Goddess which is what Jm De Matteis uses for inspiration on most of his cosmic abstracts.

Hence, the only way to glimpse the true "power" of Pralaya is to do so from a religious perspective. In Meher Baha, the religion Mr De Matteis follows, it states that the only thing that truely exist/doesn't exist is God/Brahman. But there are two sides to this "God", the unmanifested aspect, which is literally a boundless void, and his manifested aspect (you know, like the kind you see idolised in temples). In Meher Baha, everything, including existence, non-existence, duality, platonic concepts, and whatnot are literally "thoughts floating in the sea of eternity that is the unconcious of Brahman". The scan @drakotheghoul posted above clearly shows us that this is the case, as it refers to the sea as a void of nothingness and Pralaya is the emboidment of that/in other words, she is literally the aspect of God's unconcious.

I have seen you comment that the part about her being God's unconcious is a bit unclear, but put it this way, in Meher Baha all things came from the Void/God. Being God's unconcoius is literally being his unactualised thoughts and imagination which give form to platonic concepts and the like. Pralaya is this literally. If Michael and Lucifer are all concepts imaginable and unimaginable then she is all concepts that have yet to be imagined, yet to be given form, meaning.

Feathrine's Truth hax wouldn't do crap to Pralaya due to this Omni-backed nature of her because all platonic truths, which Featherine uses, are literrally derived from her, or yet to be derived from her, as she is "God's unconscious". Also, her being affected by "change" is really just so De Matteis could tell a story, and the Pralaya you see in the comic is just a manifestation of her, her true form is in the scan above-a boundless, unchanging, void that represents all things yet to be. Hope that makes sense.

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teozepot

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@youraverageguy:

That sounds NLF dude.

I'd say that this is stalemate to be honest.

She sees Umineko and other WTC works as fiction itself and she also was stated to be within The Creator's domain.

The only feat she has is plot manipulation. Able to kill a voyager with literally a finger.

But I'd say this is honestly a stalemate.

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lmaolmaolmao

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@youraverageguy:Hmm so Basically in eastern terms Pralaya is Wuji and The creator or the presence is Taiji right?

Seems like we are in for a lot of antifeats because I seriously doubt pralaya would be like the Ein Sof since she does have a consciousness.

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zgtfreak

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@youraverageguy: Thanks for the clarification. She would indeed win if this is true.

@teozepot You are literally contributing nothing to this conversation.

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Youraverageguy

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@teozepot: What the hell is plot manipulation going to do against Pralaya who is the literal source for the platonic truths that define and regulate what narrative/plot even is. Also, how is it no limit fallcy if she is literally an aspect of the boundless/omnipotent (confirmed since she is a De Matteis character which scale sot his sub-cannon cosmology).

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Youraverageguy

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@teozepot: Also, she is not in the creator’S domain, she literally says she simply ”touched” it and couldn’t go any further as it will overwhelm her individuality. That’s why she has a head device lol. Pralaya has no such weakness and is the same boundless, individuality destroying, void/Ain Soph nirvana that Featherine fears flailing into.

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WhatisSamurai8

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@youraverageguy:

@teozepot: Also, she is not in the creator’S domain, she literally says she simply ”touched” it and couldn’t go any further as it will overwhelm her individuality. That’s why she has a head device lol. Pralaya has no such weakness and is the same boundless, individuality destroying, void/Ain Soph nirvana that Featherine fears flailing into.

@ovy7

lol @ Featherine is not in the Creator's domain.

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Youraverageguy

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@lmaolmaolmao: Oh, yeah, you are right about that. Personally, I think she is Wuji, the creator would be Taihi which derives from that while the true God, the Divine Presence is the Dao which begat that. I think that’s how it works in Taoist cosmology anyways, correct me if I’m wrong ;)

As someone who knows/talks about Kabbalah, I always thought of the Ain Soph to be the conscious extension of an Omnipotent (the Ain), but that’s my take and I don’t want to get anything wrong (knowing Jews and knowing what they know are two different things, know what I mean).

Oh yeah, I think her “true” form, that void in the scan @drakotheghoul is kindly posted above (thanks man!) seems to resemble the Ain Soph (unconscious Omani-backed nirvana) while the one that shows up for most of the comic is just a manifestation/avatar, but that’s just me.

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WhatisSamurai8

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Youraverageguy

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@zgtfreak: Do you want scans? Well, most of it is really just logical deductions, but I can show scans from Meyer Baha is that you help?

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WhatisSamurai8

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@youraverageguy: According to Ovy, Featherine is in The Creator's domain, she's not in the his domain in power, but the place she resides is called Creator's domain, she sees the Voyager's as fiction itself and she still has a true form, that's not shown yet in any of the WTC.

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SleepyGypsy

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#29  Edited By SleepyGypsy

Perpetua and Pralaya, due to Perpetua being the creator of the Sphere of Gods. Featherine and beings like SCP 3812 seelower dimensions as fiction. But, lower dimensions literally arefiction to Mxyzptlk.

There is an infinite difference between having an ego so large that you feel lower dimensions are like fictions, or seen visually as flat 2-D stories. Captain Allen showcases this perfectly.

vs

Beings like Mxyzplk actually holding DC Comics and playing with the canon of the fiction.

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Deagonx

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@sleepygypsy:

>Featherine and beings like SCP 3812 seelower dimensions as fiction. But, lower dimensions literally arefiction to Mxyzptlk.

This indicates you have no understanding of Umineko.

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NightwingX

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@deagonx:

This indicates you have no understanding of Umineko.

Of course he doesn't. He thinks that endless 9 and red truth doesn't work outside the game board in umineko when that obviously isn't the case if you read the visual novel.

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SleepyGypsy

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#32  Edited By SleepyGypsy

Endless 9, Red Truth and the other higher tier attacks/defenses have no effect in the Creators Realm. None. Nobody has been able to showcase Umineko powers working outside of the Umineko fiction. This is fan wank. Making up powers and assuming their powers work elsewhere when they don't. Here is Featherine saying Nope, doesn't work in all cases. We've hit a point in fanboyism for Featherine and Battler where when the characters blatatantly said no, they cannot do this, it simply doesn't matter. Fanwank > Featherine statements confirming it can't work there.

Perpetua blinks, most of these users know Lucifer > Featherine and Battler. Perpetua made Lucifer and Yahwe.

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See how this works, Nightwing? I post the scans, you post your opinion and ignore the actual dialogue that debunks you and Deagon?

Facts > Favoritism.

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Deagonx

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@sleepygypsy:

>Nobody has been able to showcase Umineko powers working outside of the Umineko fiction.

They have clearly demonstrated authority over a fiction. In fact, their level of control far exceeds any actual feats of CAS.

>Facts > Favoritism.

Agreed. Facts about Umineko are more important than your favoritism of anything Monitor related.

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SleepyGypsy

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#34  Edited By SleepyGypsy

Featherine herself saying they cannot do it means they cannot do it. Featherine statements trump fanfiction statements from you. Perpetua blinkstomps, she is responsible for creating YAHWE. Presence > Featherine and Battler all day long.

Featherine saying no > fanwank

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Deagonx

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@sleepygypsy:

>Featherine herself saying they cannot do it means they cannot do it.

And this has what bearing on this fight?

>she is responsible for creating YAHWE.

Are you talking about the Presence? Perpetua was never stated to have created him at all.

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zgtfreak

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#36  Edited By zgtfreak

@youraverageguy: Also, she is not in the creator’S domain, she literally says she simply ”touched” it and couldn’t go any further as it will overwhelm her individuality. That’s why she has a head device lol.

Actually she is in the Creator's Domain, but she is not apart of him and cannot be too close to him. Being in the Creator's Domain =/= being one with the actual Creator. Think of it as just a Domain above the Witches Domain, but with him at the end of it, which Aurora cannot get close too without vanishing.

Do you want scans? Well, most of it is really just logical deductions, but I can show scans from Meyer Baha is that you help?

Nah, I believe you. Plus Michael ruined this thread for me, so I'm out.

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SleepyGypsy

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"Nah, I believe you. Plus Michael ruined this thread for me, so I'm out. "

You aren't used to fighting for your food or proving your case. You come from a group that thinks just posting text makes you right. You don't have the ability to prove your case, so you run away.

Perpetua stomps, you agree Lucifer > Featherine and Battler, so you should automatically also defend Perpetua > Lucifer > Featherine and Battler, because you are aware she made the Sphere of Gods. But you wont, because that makes you look bad to your friends who disagree with anything Monitor related, right?

Perpetua blinks Featherine out of existence, she made the Sphere of Gods.

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El_mago

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#38  Edited By El_mago

and this is why anything related to umineko vs other verse topics make some of the most bait and convoluted threads ever

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zgtfreak

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@sleepygypsy: So we agreed to leave each other alone, but are now using that agreement against me as if I'm avoiding you. Ok then, deal is off.

First off: I debunked all of this the very first time you posted it. The scans you posted don't even say what you claim them to say.

Endless 9, Red Truth and the other higher tier attacks/defenses have no effect in the Creators Realm. None. Nobody has been able to showcase Umineko powers working outside of the Umineko fiction.

Battler not only used Truths outside of his gameboard, but used them in an entirely different WTC series (which is called 7th Theater IIRC):

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So this completely debunks your gameboard theory. The gameboards in Umineko are made to solve a murder mystery. There are rules established to play it. If anything, it weakens the characters because they have to follow the rules instead of straight up just trying to kill each other.

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Deagonx

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@sleepygypsy:

>Perpetua stomps, you agree Lucifer > Featherine and Battler, so you should automatically also defend Perpetua > Lucifer > Featherine and Battler, because you are aware she made the Sphere of Gods.

Nonsense. She didnt create Lucifer. Lucifer was created by The Presence, and it has never been said in any way shape or form that Perpetua created The Presence.

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NightwingX

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#41  Edited By NightwingX

@sleepygypsy:

It's obvious that you have no idea what ur talking about. It doesn't even refer to E9 or the red truth.

Inquisitors like Dlanor and willard are able to use red truth just fine outside the gameboard and it's even mentioned that Lambdadelta restricts the red key's use and power in the gameboard world.

It wouldn't make any sense that inquistiors would only be able to use it within a gameboard since they use it for other stuff outside of it.

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zgtfreak

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#42  Edited By zgtfreak

@nightwingx: It wouldn't make any sense that inquistiors would only be able to use it within a gameboard since they use it for other stuff.

Indeed. That's a good point I forgot to mention. Willard is an Angel from Heaven and has hunted down and slaughtered countless of Witches with Vine Dine's Commandments (aka Truths) to the point they fear him. This would be impossible if his powers only existed in gameboards.

Dlanor also killed her father with Knox's Commandments in Heaven, and no gameboard was mentioned.

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ovy7

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@zgtfreak said:

@nightwingx: It wouldn't make any sense that inquistiors would only be able to use it within a gameboard since they use it for other stuff.

Indeed. That's a good point I forgot to mention. Willard is an Angel from Heaven and has hunted down and slaughtered countless of Witches with Vine Dine's Commandments (aka Truths) to the point they fear him. This would be impossible if his powers only existed in gameboards.

Dlanor also killed her father with Knox's Commandments in Heaven, and no gameboard was mentioned.

You don't even need to write that much, honestly. The weapons the Angels use (Blue Key, Red Key) are conceptualizations of the Blue and Red Truth, and they are able to use them outside of the gameboards.

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Aristeaus

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Perpetua blinks, most of these users know Lucifer > Featherine and Battler. Perpetua made Lucifer and Yahwe.

Perpetua is a super celestial with the ability to use parts of the overvoid to do things. All judges have this power. Judges are empowered by the Source.

Grant Morrison said that the Source, Overvoid, and The Presence all part of each other.

Cronus described the God Wave as the power of the presence itself.

WM described the feeling beyond the gates of heaven as the Source itself.

If part of the presence = overvoid, and Perpetua used the Overvoid to create, then she did not create him.

When you mention Yaweh, your likely talking about Careys Presence. That doesn't exist anymore.

Also, creation =/= destruction. Perpetua has destroyed universes, but needed to recharge afterwords. That is a pretty big anti-feat when we are talking about cosmics.

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xearesay

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#45  Edited By xearesay

Perpetua can solo tbh. She has full control over possibility and impossibility which is what generated even beings like Hecate into existence who are described as absolute powers. No one has presented anything Featherine can do to her.

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Youraverageguy

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@zgtfreak: Oh, is that so...sorry for my misconception than. My apology goes to you too @whatissamurai8 I haven't read the VN yet, just a decent portion of manag (usually those feat related) so forgive me for my "lies" I'm no expert XD

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zgtfreak

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#47  Edited By zgtfreak

@youraverageguy: No worries. There's a huge difference between misinformation and lying. We've all been misinformed at one point or another. It's no big deal.

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SleepyGypsy

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No he did not. Do you mean this image? This was confirmed a photoshop and not real.

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@sleepygypsy said:

Perpetua blinks, most of these users know Lucifer > Featherine and Battler. Perpetua made Lucifer and Yahwe.

Perpetua is a super celestial with the ability to use parts of the overvoid to do things. All judges have this power. Judges are empowered by the Source.

Grant Morrison said that the Source, Overvoid, and The Presence all part of each other.

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SleepyGypsy

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Empty statements are made by those who cannot provide evidence of any kind to support their claim. Facts are not facts, because you say so. Your preference is not a fact and because you dislike Monitors more doesn't mean Feathine wins.

Perpetua made a sphere of gods that contains being that one shot Featherine. That is a fact.

@sleepygypsy:

It's obvious that you have no idea what ur talking about. It doesn't even refer to E9 or the red truth.

Inquisitors like Dlanor and willard are able to use red truth just fine outside the gameboard and it's even mentioned that Lambdadelta restricts the red key's use and power in the gameboard world.

It wouldn't make any sense that inquistiors would only be able to use it within a gameboard since they use it for other stuff outside of it.

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Aristeaus

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No he did not. Do you mean this image? This was confirmed a photoshop and not real.

@Aristeaus said:
@sleepygypsy said:

Perpetua blinks, most of these users know Lucifer > Featherine and Battler. Perpetua made Lucifer and Yahwe.

Perpetua is a super celestial with the ability to use parts of the overvoid to do things. All judges have this power. Judges are empowered by the Source.

Grant Morrison said that the Source, Overvoid, and The Presence all part of each other.

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