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Avatar image for u_wot_m8
#151 Posted by U_WOT_M8 (1403 posts) - - Show Bio

@u_wot_m8 said:
@valarmelkor said:
@u_wot_m8 said:
@comictheif said:

@u_wot_m8: ha ha ssj2 is no where near is not solar level at all plus neo ate a supernova he above buu saga

Cell says otherwise, statements on kid buu and other majin buu being a universal threats says even more. Cell is Solar system level, prove it wrong if he is not, guide books on Cell statement says otherwise. if you believe it was a hyperbole, then prove it, because the series doesn't contradict it after, in fact they made more bigger claims. Like Kid buu able to make the universe go poof

Just because Cell says he can destroy a Solar System doesn't mean he can. There's nothing in the manga backing that up. What guidebooks are you talking about? Can you post a scan? Also, I just got finished re-reading the entire Dragon Ball manga today and nobody said Kid Buu could oneshot a Universe or anything. The most they talked about was Buu being a threat to the Universe which he obviously would be if he went on a planet destroying rampage across the galaxies.

No, the author made Cell say the statement of him destroying the solar system, the guy who created DBZ and Cell. Problem is you have to prove he cannot destroy a solar system and Cell was lying, but you can't, since they made a hella more better statements in Kid Buu and after him. Nothing proves he is not a solar system buster. It can mean anything, the universe going poof would mean he can destroy the universe, problem is you can interpret any way, and it still would be impressive and more impressive then SS level Cell.

No Caption Provided

The Guide above states that Super Saiyan 2's or "Super Saiyan Grade 5's"... "power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

Obviously the author wrote Cell as saying it. Does that mean every statement from every character should should be taken as truthful if not explicitly disproven? Like for example if a character said they could destroy a planet but no feats in their verse came anywhere close to that should it just be accepted? Cell easily could have just been bragging/trying to scare the Z-Fighters. Statements are meaningless without feats.

Nobody said Buu could bust a Universe. The most they talked about was him being a threat to the Universe. They said the same type of things about Frieza and Cell.

And what is that guide? I doubt it's written by Toriyama or canon considering the pictures of Broly there.

Yep, if a statement is made, the series needs to prove it wrong, if they don't then they are correct until proven wrong, otherwise their is no point for the author to have them make say that. Incorrect, feats are not needed every time someone states something, not to mention Cell died and failed because of Gohan. Statements without contradictions = feats any time.

Goku said it, Old Kai said it for Gotenks Buu, I believe it was said many times for Fat Buu as well, maybe 2 or 3 times. Yeah that should prove that Cell SS quote is nothing special.

Nor does it need to be from AT if he was the one that made Cell say he can destroy a solar system. The guide is canon when talking about Gohan SSj2 power, considering the anime followed the manga scene without fillers, so it's obviously not targeting anything else.

Avatar image for valarmelkor
#152 Posted by ValarMelkor (5165 posts) - - Show Bio

@u_wot_m8 said:
@valarmelkor said:
@u_wot_m8 said:
@valarmelkor said:
@u_wot_m8 said:
@comictheif said:

@u_wot_m8: ha ha ssj2 is no where near is not solar level at all plus neo ate a supernova he above buu saga

Cell says otherwise, statements on kid buu and other majin buu being a universal threats says even more. Cell is Solar system level, prove it wrong if he is not, guide books on Cell statement says otherwise. if you believe it was a hyperbole, then prove it, because the series doesn't contradict it after, in fact they made more bigger claims. Like Kid buu able to make the universe go poof

Just because Cell says he can destroy a Solar System doesn't mean he can. There's nothing in the manga backing that up. What guidebooks are you talking about? Can you post a scan? Also, I just got finished re-reading the entire Dragon Ball manga today and nobody said Kid Buu could oneshot a Universe or anything. The most they talked about was Buu being a threat to the Universe which he obviously would be if he went on a planet destroying rampage across the galaxies.

No, the author made Cell say the statement of him destroying the solar system, the guy who created DBZ and Cell. Problem is you have to prove he cannot destroy a solar system and Cell was lying, but you can't, since they made a hella more better statements in Kid Buu and after him. Nothing proves he is not a solar system buster. It can mean anything, the universe going poof would mean he can destroy the universe, problem is you can interpret any way, and it still would be impressive and more impressive then SS level Cell.

No Caption Provided

The Guide above states that Super Saiyan 2's or "Super Saiyan Grade 5's"... "power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

Obviously the author wrote Cell as saying it. Does that mean every statement from every character should should be taken as truthful if not explicitly disproven? Like for example if a character said they could destroy a planet but no feats in their verse came anywhere close to that should it just be accepted? Cell easily could have just been bragging/trying to scare the Z-Fighters. Statements are meaningless without feats.

Nobody said Buu could bust a Universe. The most they talked about was him being a threat to the Universe. They said the same type of things about Frieza and Cell.

And what is that guide? I doubt it's written by Toriyama or canon considering the pictures of Broly there.

Yep, if a statement is made, the series needs to prove it wrong, if they don't then they are correct until proven wrong, otherwise their is no point for the author to have them make say that. Incorrect, feats are not needed every time someone states something, not to mention Cell died and failed because of Gohan. Statements without contradictions = feats any time.

Goku said it, Old Kai said it for Gotenks Buu, I believe it was said many times for Fat Buu as well, maybe 2 or 3 times. Yeah that should prove that Cell SS quote is nothing special.

Nor does it need to be from AT if he was the one that made Cell say he can destroy a solar system. The guide is canon when talking about Gohan SSj2 power, considering the anime followed the manga scene without fillers, so it's obviously not targeting anything else.

Okay, so for example S-Class beings from Yu Yu Hakusho can destroy a planet? Obito from Naruto can destroy a planet? Their feats don't come anywhere close to that but they can according to statements which aren't backed up at all in the manga. I guess if you want to take every statement seriously despite nothing backing it up you can but pretty much everyone else is going to disagree and that's why most people are saying Cell loses here.

Scans for Buu being able to destroy a Universe?

It actually does need to be from AT. What does the anime following the manga without fillers for that scene matter? If the guidebook was written by the people who wrote the anime than anything it says that isn't confirmed in the manga or by Toriyama is just as non-canon as the anime fillers.

Avatar image for u_wot_m8
#153 Posted by U_WOT_M8 (1403 posts) - - Show Bio

@u_wot_m8 said:
@valarmelkor said:
@u_wot_m8 said:
@valarmelkor said:
@u_wot_m8 said:
@comictheif said:

@u_wot_m8: ha ha ssj2 is no where near is not solar level at all plus neo ate a supernova he above buu saga

Cell says otherwise, statements on kid buu and other majin buu being a universal threats says even more. Cell is Solar system level, prove it wrong if he is not, guide books on Cell statement says otherwise. if you believe it was a hyperbole, then prove it, because the series doesn't contradict it after, in fact they made more bigger claims. Like Kid buu able to make the universe go poof

Just because Cell says he can destroy a Solar System doesn't mean he can. There's nothing in the manga backing that up. What guidebooks are you talking about? Can you post a scan? Also, I just got finished re-reading the entire Dragon Ball manga today and nobody said Kid Buu could oneshot a Universe or anything. The most they talked about was Buu being a threat to the Universe which he obviously would be if he went on a planet destroying rampage across the galaxies.

No, the author made Cell say the statement of him destroying the solar system, the guy who created DBZ and Cell. Problem is you have to prove he cannot destroy a solar system and Cell was lying, but you can't, since they made a hella more better statements in Kid Buu and after him. Nothing proves he is not a solar system buster. It can mean anything, the universe going poof would mean he can destroy the universe, problem is you can interpret any way, and it still would be impressive and more impressive then SS level Cell.

No Caption Provided

The Guide above states that Super Saiyan 2's or "Super Saiyan Grade 5's"... "power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

Obviously the author wrote Cell as saying it. Does that mean every statement from every character should should be taken as truthful if not explicitly disproven? Like for example if a character said they could destroy a planet but no feats in their verse came anywhere close to that should it just be accepted? Cell easily could have just been bragging/trying to scare the Z-Fighters. Statements are meaningless without feats.

Nobody said Buu could bust a Universe. The most they talked about was him being a threat to the Universe. They said the same type of things about Frieza and Cell.

And what is that guide? I doubt it's written by Toriyama or canon considering the pictures of Broly there.

Yep, if a statement is made, the series needs to prove it wrong, if they don't then they are correct until proven wrong, otherwise their is no point for the author to have them make say that. Incorrect, feats are not needed every time someone states something, not to mention Cell died and failed because of Gohan. Statements without contradictions = feats any time.

Goku said it, Old Kai said it for Gotenks Buu, I believe it was said many times for Fat Buu as well, maybe 2 or 3 times. Yeah that should prove that Cell SS quote is nothing special.

Nor does it need to be from AT if he was the one that made Cell say he can destroy a solar system. The guide is canon when talking about Gohan SSj2 power, considering the anime followed the manga scene without fillers, so it's obviously not targeting anything else.

Okay, so for example S-Class beings from Yu Yu Hakusho can destroy a planet? Obito from Naruto can destroy a planet? Their feats don't come anywhere close to that but they can according to statements which aren't backed up at all in the manga. I guess if you want to take every statement seriously despite nothing backing it up you can but pretty much everyone else is going to disagree and that's why most people are saying Cell loses here.

Scans for Buu being able to destroy a Universe?

It actually does need to be from AT. What does the anime following the manga without fillers for that scene matter? If the guidebook was written by the people who wrote the anime than anything it says that isn't confirmed in the manga or by Toriyama is just as non-canon as the anime fillers.

Don't know who that is, and you missed the point. The series needs to prove them wrong, prove that they are lying, not you and your disbelief on what they can and cannot do. It's common sense really, if the series say something, you need to prove that stronger or equal characters show statements or feats that contradict that statement given.

I don't care what other people think on the forum and nor should anyone else. This isn't what they want or don't want to believe, it's about what is shown, and if it's contradicted and proven wrong, not "Well I don't trust it".

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

I believe there is more

Cell statement was from AT as he wrote Cell saying such a thing. Because your saying it's non-canon, despite them talking about the Cell scene had no fillers at all or wasn't even referencing it. It's written by people who obviously worked close with AT, and their opinions > ours.

Avatar image for valarmelkor
#154 Edited by ValarMelkor (5165 posts) - - Show Bio

@u_wot_m8 said:
@valarmelkor said:
@u_wot_m8 said:
@valarmelkor said:
@u_wot_m8 said:
@valarmelkor said:
@u_wot_m8 said:
@comictheif said:

@u_wot_m8: ha ha ssj2 is no where near is not solar level at all plus neo ate a supernova he above buu saga

Cell says otherwise, statements on kid buu and other majin buu being a universal threats says even more. Cell is Solar system level, prove it wrong if he is not, guide books on Cell statement says otherwise. if you believe it was a hyperbole, then prove it, because the series doesn't contradict it after, in fact they made more bigger claims. Like Kid buu able to make the universe go poof

Just because Cell says he can destroy a Solar System doesn't mean he can. There's nothing in the manga backing that up. What guidebooks are you talking about? Can you post a scan? Also, I just got finished re-reading the entire Dragon Ball manga today and nobody said Kid Buu could oneshot a Universe or anything. The most they talked about was Buu being a threat to the Universe which he obviously would be if he went on a planet destroying rampage across the galaxies.

No, the author made Cell say the statement of him destroying the solar system, the guy who created DBZ and Cell. Problem is you have to prove he cannot destroy a solar system and Cell was lying, but you can't, since they made a hella more better statements in Kid Buu and after him. Nothing proves he is not a solar system buster. It can mean anything, the universe going poof would mean he can destroy the universe, problem is you can interpret any way, and it still would be impressive and more impressive then SS level Cell.

No Caption Provided

The Guide above states that Super Saiyan 2's or "Super Saiyan Grade 5's"... "power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

Obviously the author wrote Cell as saying it. Does that mean every statement from every character should should be taken as truthful if not explicitly disproven? Like for example if a character said they could destroy a planet but no feats in their verse came anywhere close to that should it just be accepted? Cell easily could have just been bragging/trying to scare the Z-Fighters. Statements are meaningless without feats.

Nobody said Buu could bust a Universe. The most they talked about was him being a threat to the Universe. They said the same type of things about Frieza and Cell.

And what is that guide? I doubt it's written by Toriyama or canon considering the pictures of Broly there.

Yep, if a statement is made, the series needs to prove it wrong, if they don't then they are correct until proven wrong, otherwise their is no point for the author to have them make say that. Incorrect, feats are not needed every time someone states something, not to mention Cell died and failed because of Gohan. Statements without contradictions = feats any time.

Goku said it, Old Kai said it for Gotenks Buu, I believe it was said many times for Fat Buu as well, maybe 2 or 3 times. Yeah that should prove that Cell SS quote is nothing special.

Nor does it need to be from AT if he was the one that made Cell say he can destroy a solar system. The guide is canon when talking about Gohan SSj2 power, considering the anime followed the manga scene without fillers, so it's obviously not targeting anything else.

Okay, so for example S-Class beings from Yu Yu Hakusho can destroy a planet? Obito from Naruto can destroy a planet? Their feats don't come anywhere close to that but they can according to statements which aren't backed up at all in the manga. I guess if you want to take every statement seriously despite nothing backing it up you can but pretty much everyone else is going to disagree and that's why most people are saying Cell loses here.

Scans for Buu being able to destroy a Universe?

It actually does need to be from AT. What does the anime following the manga without fillers for that scene matter? If the guidebook was written by the people who wrote the anime than anything it says that isn't confirmed in the manga or by Toriyama is just as non-canon as the anime fillers.

Don't know who that is, and you missed the point. The series needs to prove them wrong, prove that they are lying, not you and your disbelief on what they can and cannot do. It's common sense really, if the series say something, you need to prove that stronger or equal characters show statements or feats that contradict that statement given.

I don't care what other people think on the forum and nor should anyone else. This isn't what they want or don't want to believe, it's about what is shown, and if it's contradicted and proven wrong, not "Well I don't trust it".

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

I believe there is more

Cell statement was from AT as he wrote Cell saying such a thing. Because your saying it's non-canon, despite them talking about the Cell scene had no fillers at all or wasn't even referencing it. It's written by people who obviously worked close with AT, and their opinions > ours.

No I didn't miss the point. I get what you're saying, but I disagree that every statement explicitly needs to be proven wrong. Especially when we're talking about a claim that if true would be insanely above any other feat in the manga.

I don't think those scans are accurate translations. In the Viz Manga, the official translation, Piccolo doesn't say every living thing in the universe will die, he says ''At this rate, every living being on Earth and in the entire galaxy will be snuffed out''. Goku doesn't say that the Universe will ''go poof''but that the ''Universe will be doomed'' and like I said that's just showing Buu is a threat to the whole Universe, not that he could actually bust the Universe, and it's the same type of statement people used to give about Frieza and Cell. Old Kai didn't say the Universe would be destroyed, but that it would be the ''death of the Universe'' if Buu defeated all of his challengers on Earth. Again, this just implies he was a threat to the whole Universe.

I know Cell's statement was from AT, and I already said that I don't accept statements that aren't backed up by feats, especially ones like this that would make the verse stronger to a huge degree than Toriyama ever portrayed through actual feats. And the problem is you were using that guidebook written by the anime staff to prove that Cell could destroy a Solar System in the manga but then using the manga to justify the guide book being canon, saying that since it was covering a scene without filler then what it said about Toriyama's canon story had to be true.

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#155 Posted by U_WOT_M8 (1403 posts) - - Show Bio

@valarmelkor:

No I didn't miss the point. I get what you're saying, but I disagree that every statement explicitly needs to be proven wrong. Especially when we're talking about a claim that if true would be insanely above any other feat in the manga.

Insanely above other feats in the manga by a character who is insanely above guys who preform them feats, again nothing is being proven wrong here. It needs to be proven wrong from the series, not whether you like them or not.

I don't think those scans are accurate translations. In the Viz Manga, the official translation, Piccolo doesn't say every living thing in the universe will die, he says ''At this rate, every living being on Earth and in the entire galaxy will be snuffed out''. Goku doesn't say that the Universe will ''go poof''but that the ''Universe will be doomed'' and like I said that's just showing Buu is a threat to the whole Universe, not that he could actually bust the Universe, and it's the same type of statement people used to give about Frieza and Cell. Old Kai didn't say the Universe would be destroyed, but that it would be the ''death of the Universe'' if Buu defeated all of his challengers on Earth. Again, this just implies he was a threat to the whole Universe.

They are as accurate as any translated scans because there are many translation for it. You can't just look at 1 translation and ignore the rest. The universal state is still above the solar system statement, I really don't want to go through a translation debate when most translation say the same thing.

No Caption Provided

I know Cell's statement was from AT, and I already said that I don't accept statements that aren't backed up by feats, especially ones like this that would make the verse stronger to a huge degree than Toriyama ever portrayed through actual feats. And the problem is you were using that guidebook written by the anime staff to prove that Cell could destroy a Solar System in the manga but then using the manga to justify the guide book being canon, saying that since it was covering a scene without filler then what it said about Toriyama's canon story had to be true.'

AT doesn't follow this "needs feat to be legit" program fans had made. Your simply just downplaying now, your downplaying because you want to ignore what the series says, what it wants, what the author wants because it doesn't live to the standard fans had placed to begin with, or some fans to say. Cell is stronger then those where are planet level by a massive margin as well, just remember, KP was a city buster, Piccolo at start of DBZ was a moon buster, yet the power level was lucky to be doubled between them.

It's as true as it gets because the anime stuff work with AT, they don't sit behind a forum. Even DBZ kai said the same thing about Cell and said he was going to destroy the solar system. The anime is canon until fillers are brought in, what the anime did in the whole Cell scene was no different then what was done in the manga, no power differences, no statement differences.

Cell is a solar system buster, you have nothing but your own views saying otherwise.