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#101 Edited by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@brobs said:

Prove anime, besides filler scenes, aren't canon to the manga. Cause I can prove it is canon, but first I want to hear you

Actually you have to prove it. Toriyama had no involvement with Dragon Ball Z anime, nor he ever said the anime was canon in any interview. Here's who worked on Dragon Ball Z anime. Toriyama didn't supervise or do anything

Main Staff:Series Director — Daisuke Nishio
Series Organization — Takao Koyama
Planning — Kōzō Morishita
Character Design — Minoru Maeda & Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru
Art Design — Yūji Ikeda & Ken Tokushige
Music — Shunsuke Kikuchi

Source: Episode Guide Anime Dragon Ball Z TV Series

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#102 Edited by iUseMyCajonas (4236 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin:

special beam cannon is kind of obviously faster than the random generic ki blast he shot at the moon to destroy. why not shoot that same blast at someone massively faster than him ? why opt for a slower attack and then simultaneously get surprised that he dodged it? in this show the stronger your ki blast the faster it is on average. i cant think of a time where it hasn't been this way, and can think of multiple times where it has been.

i know 30 seconds is far below lightspeed already, i was just lowballing the show for the sake of argument.

the scan of cell almost dodging vegeta's final flash that crossed into another solar system in like 30 seconds (more lowball) is a scan enough for him to be at the very minimal light speed. with confirmed light speed reactions.

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#103 Posted by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

Still can't believe there are fanboys who think Toriyama supervised DBZ anime. I have never seen Naruto fanboys saying Naruto fillers are legit. Only DBZ fillers count smh

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#104 Edited by Brobs (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: The burden of proof lies on you, since you were the one that claimed the anime was canon. And I already know which interview you are going to bring up, so I might as well tell you before hand that Toriyama never states the anime is canon.

Cause you have 0 proof anime isn't canon to manga, thats just the why you can't show me anything, nice try. As you know it, you know what it says "Dragon Ball is anime and manga". Now, your words VS the author words, I will pick the second one, thank you.

You were the one that asked for scans which prove Toriko character's speed, yet you can't provide anything other than flawed power scailing and assumptions to back up Cell?

I don't know Toriko character's feats, so I think is pretty resonable asking for feats and scans. Power scaling that works perfectly with Dragon Ball cause of KI. I'm not going to discuss this again with you, as this will turn in a gigantic debate that will lead us to nothing besides waste of time.

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#105 Posted by Brobs (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@josephgomes619: If you actually read what I said, you will see I said "besides filler".

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#106 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas:

special beam cannon is kind of obviously faster than the random generic ki blast he shot at the moon to destroy. why not shoot that same blast at someone massively faster than him ? why opt for a slower attack and then simultaneously get surprised that he dodged it? in this show the stronger your ki blast the faster it is on average. i cant think of a time where it hasn't been this way, and can think of multiple times where it has been.

So you can prove that there is some link between the strength of a ki blast and its speed? Because i don't remeber any statement which would support that.

i know 30 seconds is far below lightspeed already, i was just lowballing the show for the sake of argument.

There's really nothing to lowball here. The point was that his scan didnt provide any proof of Cell being FTL, regardless of what you and i think.

the scan of cell almost dodging vegeta's final flash that crossed into another solar system in like 30 seconds (more lowball) is a scan enough for him to be at the very minimal light speed. with confirmed light speed reactions.

we dont see Final Flash crossing the entire solar system.... And i can show you scans of Cell saga characters getting owned by Solar Flare, which is simply a flash of light, yet these same characters have no trouble dodging ki blasts or phisical attacks.

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#107 Posted by iUseMyCajonas (4236 posts) - - Show Bio
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#108 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@brobs:

Cause you have 0 proof anime isn't canon to manga, thats just the why you can't show me anything, nice try. As you know it, you know what it says "Dragon Ball is anime and manga". Now, your words VS the author words, I will pick the second one, thank you.

This not only shows that you have absolutely no idea what a logical fallacy is. Not surprising considering you seem to think that "Dragon Ball, It's the anime and the manga" translates to "Dragon Ball anime is canon" Lulz

But hey, we can play your game. Using the anime as a way to judge a feat works both ways after all.

Loading Video...

Using anime timeframes, we can clearly deduce that Goku's Kamehameha is far slower than the speed of light considering Raditz was able to outrun it for about 10 seconds and not even cross that big of a distance. Light circles the earth about 7.5 times in one second. Also, using your flawed power scailing, Goku's Kamehameha should be far above Piccolo's generic ki blast, since Goku was stronger than Piccolo at the time.

I don't know Toriko character's feats, so I think is pretty resonable asking for feats and scans. Power scaling that works perfectly with Dragon Ball cause of KI. I'm not going to discuss this again with you, as this will turn in a gigantic debate that will lead us to nothing besides waste of time.

But of course it is, KEK. It's only unreasonable when someone asks you to show feats in return, isn't that right?

Come back when you have a better argument. :)

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#109 Edited by deactivated-5a2b0053414c5 (8165 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread got me like:

No Caption Provided

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#110 Posted by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: Fanboys only use the anime when it's convenient. You use Krillin throwing rock at Goku then suddenly the anime is non canon, or they'll say DBZ abuses cinematic time (5 minute takes 7 episodes lol) so anime timeframe isn't valid

I'm still waiting for a statement about FTL lol

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#111 Posted by Brobs (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin:

This not only shows that you have absolutely no idea what a logical fallacy is. Not surprising considering you seem to think that "Dragon Ball, It's the anime and the manga" translates to "Dragon Ball anime is canon" Lulz

But hey, we can play your game. Using the anime as a way to judge a feat works both ways after all.

Using anime timeframes, we can clearly deduce that Goku's Kamehameha is far slower than the speed of light considering Raditz was able to outrun it for about 10 seconds and not even cross that big of a distance. Light circles the earth about 7.5 times in one second. Also, using your flawed power scailing, Goku's Kamehameha should be far above Piccolo's generic ki blast, since Goku was stronger than Piccolo at the time.

I can play this game with both anime and Manga supporting me.

No Caption Provided

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

(I couldn't find the anime scene in english but it happens just like that as well)Then you gonna ask me. What in the hell, Krillin and Roshi have with Raditz? This fight in early dragon ball show us how fast their fights were ACTUALLY happening. And by simple logic, they became much faster than that later, so this instant should be much smaller. And kamehameha is in fact faster than the generic ki blast, and Raditz was fast enough to outrun a lightspeed attack, thanks for pinpointing that, I never realized.

. It's only unreasonable when someone asks you to show feats in return

I didn't get what you was trying to say here.

Come back when you have a better argument. :)

Come back when you and 90% of vine stop with the DBZ lowballing. :p

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#112 Posted by Brobs (875 posts) - - Show Bio
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#113 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: Fanboys only use the anime when it's convenient. You use Krillin throwing rock at Goku then suddenly the anime is non canon, or they'll say DBZ abuses cinematic time (5 minute takes 7 episodes lol) so anime timeframe isn't valid

I'm still waiting for a statement about FTL lol

Lol, this so much. The double standards get ridiculous sometimes. I'm sure someone will even say time was slown down for that instance.

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#115 Edited by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@brobs:

I can play this game with both anime and Manga supporting me.

Is that a fact? :)

(I couldn't find the anime scene in english but it happens just like that as well)Then you gonna ask me. What in the hell, Krillin and Roshi have with Raditz? This fight in early dragon ball show us how fast their fights were ACTUALLY happening.

So I'm curious, how fast were Roshi and Krillin fighting? Can you quantify their speed in that instance?

And by simple logic, they became much faster than that later, so this instant should be much smaller.

You mean simple ABC-logic, right?

And kamehameha is in fact faster than the generic ki blast, and Raditz was fast enough to outrun a lightspeed attack, thanks for pinpointing that, I never realized.

So by your own admission, Piccolo's attack wasn't even close to lightspeed, since we clearly Raditz outrunning it on foot for about 10 seconds, and unless you can prove that he circled the earth 75 times in those 10 seconds, or even once for that matter, you have no argument.

I didn't get what you was trying to say here.

I'm saying that asking for scans of ToriKO characters reacting at lightspeed is funny when you can't even show Cell doing this.

Come back when you and 90% of vine stop with the DBZ lowballing. :p

So calling out your wank is downplaying now?

Typical retort from your average DB debater on this site. :/

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#116 Posted by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@brobs said:

@josephgomes619: Anime =/= Filler scenes, you then must be the hater...

hater? I just showed you why DBZ anime can't be used for feats. DBZ is the most infamous title in fiction in terms of cinematic time abuse. Never seen Frieza's 5 minute meme?

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#117 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

Cell effortlessly wrecks him.

Neo is able is eat large planet busters easily. Nothing compared to solar system level Cell. Not to mention near death would make Cell stronger and regen. Neo get wrecked and vaporized. He died from a supernova, a solar system buster would make him non-existent

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#118 Posted by LE0NHART (2063 posts) - - Show Bio
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#119 Posted by Senyu (74 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong: Wasn't Cell's solar system busting attack a last resort move that required himself to be sacrificed? And if so, doesn't that attack take some time to actually launch? It'd give Neo plenty of time to munch on him.

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#120 Posted by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@le0nhart: Mostly no, especially if there's pixel scaling

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#121 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@senyu said:

@sun-wukong: Wasn't Cell's solar system busting attack a last resort move that required himself to be sacrificed? And if so, doesn't that attack take some time to actually launch? It'd give Neo plenty of time to munch on him.

No it wasn't a sacrifice move. And not to mention we don't know if Neo can even effect him let alone eat him. Talking about a solar system guy.

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#122 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio
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#123 Posted by azrael1973 (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

Cell's solar system feat is based on what? A claim by himself or more?

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#124 Edited by Redzkz (3715 posts) - - Show Bio

So neo got new feats. Bump.

@azrael1973 said:

Cell's solar system feat is based on what? A claim by himself or more?

Loading Video...

Maybe peoples think that Cell can destroy system based on this?

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#125 Posted by Redzkz (3715 posts) - - Show Bio
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#126 Posted by Omni_Troll (713 posts) - - Show Bio

@redzkz: That doesn't slow a character down. It is like The hyperbolic time chamber where time flows differently.

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#127 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8221 posts) - - Show Bio

Cell is way above any Toriko character as of right now

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#128 Posted by deactivated-5a2b0053414c5 (8165 posts) - - Show Bio

Giving this a bump for current NEO. At this time, I think NEO has this easily in the bag and can now move on to Buu Saga+ characters

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#129 Posted by Redzkz (3715 posts) - - Show Bio

Giving this a bump for current NEO. At this time, I think NEO has this easily in the bag and can now move on to Buu Saga+ characters

Yep. He just stopped time and teared Heracles appart with a sound of his roar alone. Talk about power up.

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#130 Posted by Al-Capone (695 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

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#131 Posted by AkshSarpanch (3573 posts) - - Show Bio

Neo with low difficulty considering his new BS power up.

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#132 Edited by Etheral_Dreams (6116 posts) - - Show Bio

I reaaallly need to get into Toriko again.

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#133 Edited by azrael1973 (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

New Neo is ganna eat cell. poor bambina . RIP. :(

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#134 Posted by Redzkz (3715 posts) - - Show Bio

poor bambina . RIP. :(

He still alive and well.

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#135 Posted by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

Neo eats him.

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#136 Posted by Redzkz (3715 posts) - - Show Bio
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#137 Edited by U_WOT_M8 (1403 posts) - - Show Bio

Cell stills one-shots him even in his new form.

Even Imperfect Cell can do it.

Imperfect Cell post human power up > 18/17 > SSJ Trunks/SSj Vegeta/SSj Goku android saga > Mecha Frieza > Final form Frieza pl 120 000 000 > first form Frieza 530 000 who vaporized planet Vegeta that had 10x gravity > Saiyan saga Vegeta pl of 18 000 who can destroy a planet.

Imperfect Cell power is still leagues above NEO.

@queen_marceline said:

Giving this a bump for current NEO. At this time, I think NEO has this easily in the bag and can now move on to Buu Saga+ characters

He wouldn't do anything, Buu saga guys are above SSj2 which is solar system level, NEO is not even star level, a solar system can fit over 200 000 stars alone. NEO is nothing to them

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#138 Posted by Nerise (922 posts) - - Show Bio

Back channel ftw

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#139 Posted by U_WOT_M8 (1403 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerise said:

Back channel ftw

Does nothing at all, in DB, higher levels = resistance to hax, Goku broke Hit time skip, which is stopping time, that little back channel is nothing

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#140 Posted by comictheif (428 posts) - - Show Bio

@u_wot_m8: ha ha ssj2 is no where near is not solar level at all plus neo ate a supernova he above buu saga

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#141 Edited by U_WOT_M8 (1403 posts) - - Show Bio

@comictheif said:

@u_wot_m8: ha ha ssj2 is no where near is not solar level at all plus neo ate a supernova he above buu saga

Cell says otherwise, statements on kid buu and other majin buu being a universal threats says even more. Cell is Solar system level, prove it wrong if he is not, guide books on Cell statement says otherwise. if you believe it was a hyperbole, then prove it, because the series doesn't contradict it after, in fact they made more bigger claims. Like Kid buu able to make the universe go poof

And he ate a supernova capable of destroy Toriko earth, in fact it may of only been a life wiping supernova as well but lets go with it destroying the planet. That's nothing to DBZ, First Form Frieza vaporized planet Vegeta that had 10x gravity, first form Frieza had a power level of 530 000, final form had 120 000 000, meaning Final Form Frieza is over 226x stronger then first form Frieza. What Neo did wasn't impressive to fodders let alone Buu saga.

Imperfect Cell stills mops him, and crushed him the same way he crushed Piccolo fused with kami.

Not to mention Neo is limited to how much he can eat, like dragon king beam was far too much for Neo to handle and blew his right off int he making, that beam destroyed multiple moons. Don't downplay DBZ just to make Neo get higher.

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#142 Edited by Nerise (922 posts) - - Show Bio

@u_wot_m8 said:
@nerise said:

Back channel ftw

Does nothing at all, in DB, higher levels = resistance to hax, Goku broke Hit time skip, which is stopping time, that little back channel is nothing

lol

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#143 Posted by KwasiD2k (844 posts) - - Show Bio

Some pretty idiotic comments that can't differentiate between filler and cannon anime material from 5 months ago, lmao.

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#144 Posted by LpnQ (3954 posts) - - Show Bio

5 months ago, cell would stomp.

Now with neo's Uber duber mega powerup it's a stomp for neo.

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#145 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8221 posts) - - Show Bio

Well now NEO stomps

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#146 Posted by U_WOT_M8 (1403 posts) - - Show Bio

@lpnq said:

5 months ago, cell would stomp.

Now with neo's Uber duber mega powerup it's a stomp for neo.

And what has NEO done that is so impressive that he went above Cell ?

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#147 Posted by U_WOT_M8 (1403 posts) - - Show Bio

Well now NEO stomps

What has he done that makes him stomp ?

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#148 Posted by ValarMelkor (5165 posts) - - Show Bio

@u_wot_m8 said:
@comictheif said:

@u_wot_m8: ha ha ssj2 is no where near is not solar level at all plus neo ate a supernova he above buu saga

Cell says otherwise, statements on kid buu and other majin buu being a universal threats says even more. Cell is Solar system level, prove it wrong if he is not, guide books on Cell statement says otherwise. if you believe it was a hyperbole, then prove it, because the series doesn't contradict it after, in fact they made more bigger claims. Like Kid buu able to make the universe go poof

Just because Cell says he can destroy a Solar System doesn't mean he can. There's nothing in the manga backing that up. What guidebooks are you talking about? Can you post a scan? Also, I just got finished re-reading the entire Dragon Ball manga today and nobody said Kid Buu could oneshot a Universe or anything. The most they talked about was Buu being a threat to the Universe which he obviously would be if he went on a planet destroying rampage across the galaxies.

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#149 Edited by U_WOT_M8 (1403 posts) - - Show Bio

@valarmelkor said:
@u_wot_m8 said:
@comictheif said:

@u_wot_m8: ha ha ssj2 is no where near is not solar level at all plus neo ate a supernova he above buu saga

Cell says otherwise, statements on kid buu and other majin buu being a universal threats says even more. Cell is Solar system level, prove it wrong if he is not, guide books on Cell statement says otherwise. if you believe it was a hyperbole, then prove it, because the series doesn't contradict it after, in fact they made more bigger claims. Like Kid buu able to make the universe go poof

Just because Cell says he can destroy a Solar System doesn't mean he can. There's nothing in the manga backing that up. What guidebooks are you talking about? Can you post a scan? Also, I just got finished re-reading the entire Dragon Ball manga today and nobody said Kid Buu could oneshot a Universe or anything. The most they talked about was Buu being a threat to the Universe which he obviously would be if he went on a planet destroying rampage across the galaxies.

No, the author made Cell say the statement of him destroying the solar system, the guy who created DBZ and Cell. Problem is you have to prove he cannot destroy a solar system and Cell was lying, but you can't, since they made a hella more better statements in Kid Buu and after him. Nothing proves he is not a solar system buster. It can mean anything, the universe going poof would mean he can destroy the universe, problem is you can interpret any way, and it still would be impressive and more impressive then SS level Cell.

No Caption Provided

The Guide above states that Super Saiyan 2's or "Super Saiyan Grade 5's"... "power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

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#150 Edited by ValarMelkor (5165 posts) - - Show Bio

@u_wot_m8 said:
@valarmelkor said:
@u_wot_m8 said:
@comictheif said:

@u_wot_m8: ha ha ssj2 is no where near is not solar level at all plus neo ate a supernova he above buu saga

Cell says otherwise, statements on kid buu and other majin buu being a universal threats says even more. Cell is Solar system level, prove it wrong if he is not, guide books on Cell statement says otherwise. if you believe it was a hyperbole, then prove it, because the series doesn't contradict it after, in fact they made more bigger claims. Like Kid buu able to make the universe go poof

Just because Cell says he can destroy a Solar System doesn't mean he can. There's nothing in the manga backing that up. What guidebooks are you talking about? Can you post a scan? Also, I just got finished re-reading the entire Dragon Ball manga today and nobody said Kid Buu could oneshot a Universe or anything. The most they talked about was Buu being a threat to the Universe which he obviously would be if he went on a planet destroying rampage across the galaxies.

No, the author made Cell say the statement of him destroying the solar system, the guy who created DBZ and Cell. Problem is you have to prove he cannot destroy a solar system and Cell was lying, but you can't, since they made a hella more better statements in Kid Buu and after him. Nothing proves he is not a solar system buster. It can mean anything, the universe going poof would mean he can destroy the universe, problem is you can interpret any way, and it still would be impressive and more impressive then SS level Cell.

No Caption Provided

The Guide above states that Super Saiyan 2's or "Super Saiyan Grade 5's"... "power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

Obviously the author wrote Cell as saying it. Does that mean every statement from every character should be taken as truthful if not explicitly disproven? Like for example if a character said they could destroy a planet but no feats in their verse came anywhere close to that should it just be accepted? Cell easily could have just been bragging/trying to scare the Z-Fighters. Statements are meaningless without feats.

Nobody said Buu could bust a Universe. The most they talked about was him being a threat to the Universe. They said the same type of things about Frieza and Cell.

And what is that guide? I doubt it's written by Toriyama or canon considering the pictures of Broly there.