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#51 Edited by TheCrystalBall (575 posts) - - Show Bio

@cerberus369616 said:

It looks like a planet busting attack to me with the full context of the scans. What are NEO'S other feats? Does he have feats saying he can even tag a FTL combatant? Just curious, don't read Toriko.

Yes. The Whale king is a black hole that exists in a different dimension, and one of the Acacia's full course, Another, is FTL. Komatsu's group caught Another. Neo, Slime, Ichiryuu, Jirou and Midora are god tiers while the 8 Kings are just top tier. Slime is probably MFTL.

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#52 Edited by azrael1973 (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@omni_troll said:
@azrael1973 said:

So why should he explain the supernova anyway, if it's not a supernova? A supernova will only be created if a massive Star (9 times our suns mass) is exploding. As Don Slime says correctly, it's the universe greatest disaster. If he compressing less then that mass, it's not going to explode as a supernova. A supernova is very, very rare! there are about 30 Supernovae in the whole milky way in 1000 years.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova

He explains how a supernova is created, he then creates his attack which is created just like a supernova. He then explains that he has gathered enough mass for his attack to explode. What you don't seem to understand is that he tells us the difference between his attack and what a supernova can do.

A supernova- can wipe out a 5 light year radius

His attack- Can "possibly" destroy the planet they are on.

This is exactly the same as Vegeta "Big Bang attack" which is only related to a real big bang in how the attack is created and used, not in destructive capacity. This is the exact same scenario.

Then I don't understand why is so exited about this attack. Then it was obvious that it wouldn't do anything to NEO.

And also the physics of a supernova are that it would only explode if the mass was at least nine times our suns. If it's less then it doesn't explode at all.

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#53 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks like I am late :p

While don slime explains the power of an actual supernova is strong enough to destroy every life in a five light year radius, his own attack is comparable in quality to one - not in quantity. He makes is quite clear here:

No Caption Provided

Ridiculous amount of mass (enough to be planet level) - not the mass of an actual star (enough to for the 5 lightyear blast), as people are interpreting.. Bringing up the "stars should have mass several times that of our sun" is useless considering the sheer density of that thing will make it a black hole by that logic. Pseudo science, not all out science, folks.

No, the attack is not as strong as an actual supernova - a planet level version of it. Now, if it will actually destroy the planet, or only life wipe it - considering the phrasing of the statement, it says the latter. But considering the level he is portrayed at, and that the attack looks pretty much like a bomb that is meant to explode - nor something like a wave that will wipe out the surface of the planet - the former would make more sense.

Also - he does say neo has actually torn through many stars in his earlier rampages across the universe. While that makes the power they are portraying more believable, we don't know how long it took him - this is a creature with hundreds of million years of lifetime after all.

Still, that leaves a serious hole in don slime's logic - if neo has destroyed stars, and even regenerated from actual supernova as mentioned earlier, how is he going to find a planet level attack threatening? I presume it is because he is not fully resurrected yet.

All that aside, the fight itself - I am going with neo. Both sides have different statements hyping them from planet level (neo being stronger than toriko/starjun's combo attack which was clearly enough to destroy an earth sized planet) to star level (cell's statement and neo off panel feat)

But physically, cell saga characters don't have the stats to match up with characters higher than enbu 4 HK, which neo and don slime clearly qualify. Earlier, they could be given a pass due to their dc being so much higher, it could pretty much one shot their opponents but if the character can handle the said dc, they're not winning those fights. Not to mention neo will be literally eating so many of cell's attacks, and his.. cells as the fight goes on.

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#54 Posted by songoku32 (239 posts) - - Show Bio

cell statement wasn't star level, it was solar system. neo gets dusted.

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#55 Posted by Raijin6 (315 posts) - - Show Bio

@songoku32: he would if cells power wouldn´t rely on his own hyperbole statement.

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#56 Posted by etoro1 (551 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmfao @ people who believe cell is a "solar system buster"

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#57 Posted by Karitten (82 posts) - - Show Bio

@etoro1: Yep, it was a damn shame Cell's statement was never proven or disproven in the show.

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#58 Edited by riverdog (36 posts) - - Show Bio

So much cancer it's unreal. Can you clowns not read? Slime makes a distinction between what a normal supernova does and his own, they aren't the same.

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#59 Posted by etoro1 (551 posts) - - Show Bio

@karitten: it was instantly debunked when he shot that Kamehameha and it clashed with an equally powerful blast and didn't even destroy the planet they were on. But, keep trolling

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#60 Edited by LE0NHART (2063 posts) - - Show Bio

@etoro1 said:

@karitten: it was instantly debunked when he shot that Kamehameha and it clashed with an equally powerful blast and didn't even destroy the planet they were on. But, keep trolling

That's not a debunk, that's like saying Vegeta's big bang attack is weaker than first form Frieza's supernova, the AOE done via their clash has nothing to do with the potency of their attack, otherwise Piccolo's moon buster >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cell's Kamehameha

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#61 Posted by etoro1 (551 posts) - - Show Bio

@le0nhart: fine, I'll humor you then. Would you say that buu is stronger than cell?

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#62 Edited by Spidey_Jackson (6359 posts) - - Show Bio

Cell in SUPER Perfect form is a SS buster.

It was confirmed in the daizenshuu

Beata

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#63 Posted by Saiyan77 (2135 posts) - - Show Bio

@songoku32: A star is most of the mass of the solar system

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#64 Posted by LE0NHART (2063 posts) - - Show Bio
@etoro1 said:

@le0nhart: fine, I'll humor you then. Would you say that buu is stronger than cell?

Of course Buu is stronger than Cell

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#65 Edited by Senyu (74 posts) - - Show Bio

Update on Neo's side, it is confirmed that the supernova he ate is well above life wiper. To clarify why this is, you need to understand Toriko's translation issues. The previous linked pictures that could potentially be understood as a life wiping attack is the translation found on sites like Mangastream and Mangareader. The below picture is done on Batoto, and is accepted as the more accurate of the two translation groups within the Toriko fanbase in places like r/Toriko. Aside from often differing translations that usually remain as only small points of dialogue, there are times when the two are completely different. The Batoto usually releases a few days after Mangastream, which gives the unfortunate event of readers looking at the poorly translated version first (Mangastream). One of the most notable exmaples of differing translations is when the Mangastream version stated on a previous chapter that a very, very strong character known as Whale King Moon had been eaten off screen by his opponent, causing a great deal of confusion among many Toriko readers. But the Batoto translation showed the opposite and it was instead Whale King Moon who ate his opponent off screen. Batoto's translations has more credibility due to them matching more closely to Viz's translations (responsible for the official english release of the Toriko manga) than Mangastream ever does. So while the final verdict of the supernova's attack has yet to be determined until the Viz release given they are the official one, Batoto's translations should be accepted as the standard in the meantime due to the more consistent accuracy Batoto has over Mangastream. Links to the Mangastream and Batoto chapters of the below screenshot are here.

Batoto

Mangastream

No Caption Provided

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#66 Posted by tupadre97 (83 posts) - - Show Bio

neo literally ate a supernova cell can't do shit to him. cell would try to suicide bomb himself but neo would follow him to the after life and eat him and everyone else there out of existence.

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#67 Edited by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

NEO wins, only person in DBZ who can beat NEO is Kid Buu because of insane regen and candy beam. NEO resurrected after tanking actual supernova (not Don Slime's pseudo star)

If not for Buu, NEO might be able solo'd DBZ, or at least tier with SSJ Vegito. Dude's a tough mofo

No Caption Provided

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#68 Posted by NimbleNavigaor (17 posts) - - Show Bio

I think cell stomps. Also I think that Don Slime would have wiped the floor with Neo if he had proper host.

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#69 Posted by songoku32 (239 posts) - - Show Bio
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#70 Posted by LE0NHART (2063 posts) - - Show Bio

@josephgomes619: Surviving a supernova is actually below tanking a point blank planet buster

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#71 Posted by Brobs (875 posts) - - Show Bio

Can someone tell me how in the hell Neo is going to even tag Cell?

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#72 Posted by Senyu (74 posts) - - Show Bio

@brobs: Neo is a creature that is currently stronger than Don Slime and most likely equal if not stronger than the 8 Kings. Don Slime has leapt from the earth to an orbiting object that isn't quite stated as the moon or not even, though it does bear resemblance, and then back down to earth in a Saitama fashion. Bambina, one of the 8 Kings, normally moves in the 0.1 second speed range, as in he does his daily life in that speed from playing to dancing. He has also instantaneously leapt from the middle of the continent he rules over to the coast, and while which coast he traveled to is unclarified, the shortest distance is about half the distance on our earth so probably between edge of Russia to China. It's pretty much akin to Goku's feat of crossing Namek. And he has dodged six attacks that were launched in rapid succesion that were confirmed in the official release to travel at the speed of light, and he dodged them easily. Guiness, another member of the 8 Kings, was confirmed to instantaneously travel a few hundred kilometers. Not once have we seen the 8 Kings move at their top speed, but given their currently travel and combat speeds, I think it is very possible for Neo to tag Cell. But agian, DBZ is a difficult match up because of its regular inconsistencies. I could see Cell being faster at his max, but Cell is the type of person who will allow some attacks through. He's cocky like most DBZ characters. Neo will get hits in.

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#73 Edited by Senyu (74 posts) - - Show Bio

@le0nhart: The supernova he tanked would have completely destroyed the saturn sized planet, leaving not a trace of it left. I'd say that qualifies it to be a planet busting attack strength, if not stronger than regular planet busting attacks that leave remnants left.

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#74 Posted by Senyu (74 posts) - - Show Bio

@josephgomes619: I wonder if Buu would be able to out regen Neo actually. It's true Don Slime regenerated his head after being eaten, but that was only because he had enough strength/cells/mass/energy left to do it. It is revealed that Neo breaks the law of conversation of energy by completely removing anything he eats. Gourmet Demons, which are energy based spirits that resurrect into different hosts over billions of years, don't even revive if they are eaten by Neo. It's why everyone is scared of him because he can eat things on a galactic level. I think Buu would regenerate many times during their fight, but if allowed to continue, I think Neo is capable of eating every trace of him as he reduces Buu's existence. As for the candy beam, who knows. Gourmet Cells are weird.

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#75 Posted by azrael1973 (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@senyu said:

@le0nhart: The supernova he tanked would have completely destroyed the saturn sized planet, leaving not a trace of it left. I'd say that qualifies it to be a planet busting attack strength, if not stronger than regular planet busting attacks that leave remnants left.

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#76 Posted by Brobs (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@senyu: Hulk can jump very high as well, and he isn't FTL.

Scans for the attacks at light speed?

Raditz was doing that to one beam and he is nothing compared to Cell.

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#79 Posted by Senyu (74 posts) - - Show Bio

@brobs:

Raditz was doing that to one beam and he is nothing compared to Cell.

I am not going to open the can of worms that is the inconsistent speed times of DBZ. I am only informing everyone the speed feats of Toriko characters. And as I mentioned, DBZ are cocky characters, constantly starting slow and building up their pace. Cell will start out at a pace that Neo can keep up with and he will land attacks. Whether or not Neo can keep up with Cell as the fight continues is a different matter, and for now, I can concede that Cell could outpace him at his fastest.

Hulk can jump very high as well, and he isn't FTL.

Hulk has had many writers give him different feats, but jumping to the moon is not a consistent one.

Scans for the attacks at light speed?

The scan for it was posted here on Comicvine, and I also own the kindle version of the chapter that says the same thing.

Link to scan post

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#80 Posted by Marshall_Long (5649 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn Toriko has reached this level of power now?

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#81 Posted by Senyu (74 posts) - - Show Bio

@marshall_long: Yup, and it's only growing as well. We are starting to see the upper limits of the current universe (dubbed 'Red' in recent chapters) and we are getting heavy hints that the other universes are much, much stronger.

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#82 Posted by panda_emperorix (3837 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah I don't see NEO taking down a solar system buster.

Cell stomps.

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#83 Posted by LE0NHART (2063 posts) - - Show Bio

@senyu said:

@le0nhart: The supernova he tanked would have completely destroyed the saturn sized planet, leaving not a trace of it left. I'd say that qualifies it to be a planet busting attack strength, if not stronger than regular planet busting attacks that leave remnants left.

Yes, you guys are correct, but it's a little bit smaller than Saturn IIRC :p

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#84 Posted by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@brobs said:

Can someone tell me how in the hell Neo is going to even tag Cell?

By being FTL? How is Cell going to tag NEO?

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#85 Posted by Brobs (875 posts) - - Show Bio
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#86 Edited by Senyu (74 posts) - - Show Bio

@le0nhart: You're right. Toriko planet's circumference was stated to be 220,000km and Saturn's is 378,675 km.

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#87 Edited by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@brobs said:

@senyu: Hulk can jump very high as well, and he isn't FTL.

Scans for the attacks at light speed?

Raditz was doing that to one beam and he is nothing compared to Cell.

You want FTL scans from Toriko? Here you go. Now give us FTL scans from DBZ. Or any words with lightspeed

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided
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Not massive, just well above FTL. Now show us scans of faster than light in DBZ, or lightspeed. I don't remember any

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#88 Edited by Senyu (74 posts) - - Show Bio

@josephgomes619: And to clarify again, Coco's Mold Spears in that last picture do move at the speed of light as per the official Toriko translation from Viz.

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#89 Posted by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@senyu: I know, I don't have the viz version.

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#90 Posted by Brobs (875 posts) - - Show Bio
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#91 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@brobs: There was no specific timeframe given in either of scans.

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#92 Edited by Brobs (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: The anime, which is canon to the manga, shows time frame. And even if there wasn't anime to support it, is very lowballing to say piccolo stood there more than seconds with his arm raised up considering the next scene and prior speed feats.

No Caption Provided

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#93 Posted by linsanel_Doctor (8630 posts) - - Show Bio

Neo has eaten everything thrown at him so far. I think everyone below Kid Buu would lose. Even Buu himself might get eaten.

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#94 Edited by iUseMyCajonas (4236 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: We only need a timeframe for the first attack.

And the first attack could not have taken more than 30 seconds. (some massive lowballing here)

considering super perfect cell is on ssj2 level, would make him minimal 30 times faster than raditz. and raditz is fast enough to dodge an attack that took 30 seconds to hit the moon. which would make spc FTL.

this is the most amount of lowball ive ever done to dragonball just to show you how hard it would be to state that characters this late into the show are not ftl

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#95 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@brobs:

The anime, which is canon to the manga, shows time frame.

The anime is simply an adaptation of the manga. Other than a misinterpreted statement from Toriyama, nothing suggests that it's canon to the manga.

And even if there wasn't anime to support it, is very lowballing to say piccolo stood there more than seconds with his arm raised up considering the next scene and prior speed feats.

Light takes 1.3 seconds to travel the distance from the earth to the moon. We can't just assume it was lightspeed because Piccolo had his arm raised in the air. That doesn't qualify as actual proof.

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#96 Posted by Brobs (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: The anime is simply an adaptation of the manga. Other than a misinterpreted statement from Toriyama, nothing suggests that it's canon to the manga.

Prove anime, besides filler scenes, aren't canon to the manga. Cause I can prove it is canon, but first I want to hear you

Light takes 1.3 seconds to travel the distance from the earth to the moon. We can't just assume it was lightspeed because Piccolo had his arm raised in the air. That doesn't qualify as actual proof.

It doesn't matter, even if it was 10 seconds, cell would still be hundreds(if not thousands) times faster than Raditz, doing the math, this will turn into at very least FTL.

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#97 Posted by Nite_Nite (2348 posts) - - Show Bio

So much wrong here. Toriko has characters that can easily planet bust, considering there are characters that could destroy they're version of earth on a whim. An earth 189x our own in size. With various extreme levels of landscapes.

Cell saying he had a solar system busting kamehameha is akin to Vegeta having a Big Bang attack. Neither were true. Just hyperbole.

Not arguing speed between verses.

Neo are that supernova explosion faster than Don Slime knew what happened. He's eating whatever cell throws out. Then he's eating cell.

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#98 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas:

We only need a timeframe for the first attack.

That's only if we assume Special Beam cannon is faster than his moon busting attack and there is honestly no real proof to support that.

And the first attack could not have taken more than 30 seconds. (some massive lowballing here)

That would make the attack far below lightspeed.

considering super perfect cell is on ssj2 level, would make him minimal 30 times faster than raditz. and raditz is fast enough to dodge an attack that took 30 seconds to hit the moon. which would make spc FTL.

This is Perfect Cell we'really talking about here and powerscaling certainly isn't a reliable form of proof when discussing actual feats.

this is the most amount of lowball ive ever done to dragonball just to show you how hard it would be to state that characters this late into the show are not ftl

I'm not saying they aren't FTL, but it's silly to ask for scans of Toriko characters' "FTL" speeds when there is no such scan that proves Cell is that fast.

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#99 Posted by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@brobs: There's no time frame for that attack, it could be sub relativistic or slower for all we know.

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#100 Edited by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@brobs:

Prove anime, besides filler scenes, aren't canon to the manga. Cause I can prove it is canon, but first I want to hear you.

The burden of proof lies on you, since you were the one that claimed the anime was canon. And I already know which interview you are going to bring up, so I might as well tell you before hand that Toriyama never states the anime is canon.

It doesn't matter, even if it was 10 seconds, cell would still be hundreds(if not thousands) times faster than Raditz, doing the math, this will turn into at very least FTL.

You were the one that asked for scans which prove Toriko character's speed, yet you can't provide anything other than flawed power scailing and assumptions to back up Cell?