Pennywise vs Odin

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hyperfinn

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ROB drops Pennywise's true form Deadlights from Stephen King's novel It and Odin from 616 reality of Marvel Comics in an infinite and indestructible Universe and makes them fight.

Bloodlusted.

Win by killing or KOing opponent.

No prep and no knowledge.

Standard equipment.

All comics feats for Odin and novel feats for Pennywise.

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BruceRogers

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Odin snaps his fingers.

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Warlockmage

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#3 Warlockmage  Online

odin blinks... Pennywise only has implied power and is woefully lacking in the actual feat department

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thelocust619

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#4  Edited By thelocust619

Mismatch, Pennywise is (under) town level. Including novel feats.

Calling him any higher is like calling a fisherman ocean level because he can pull a fish out of the ocean.

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Mister_Surreal

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#5  Edited By Mister_Surreal

Odin stomps. Even though Pennywise has been hyped as this big universal being, in the end he lost against a group of twelve year olds and has next to no impressive feats.

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SocaJunkie

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@mister_surreal: Said twelve year olds were aided by a universal+ Turtle who’s Pennywise’s mortal enemy, he isn’t Odin level by feats but still, he didn’t lose to twelve year olds without context.

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Mister_Surreal

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@socajunkie: Good point. But Pennywise still has done nothing impressive.

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Hypnos0929

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The clown loses. The real thing probably kills Borson.

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ChaosKnight75

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pedo clown is all talk and implied power with no feats to argue.

Odin waves his hand

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KanyeCosby

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lol

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thelocust619

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#11  Edited By thelocust619

^All wrong. It was never, ever implied to be universal ever. Smashing an ant with a planet doesn't make the ant planet level.

And It was nothing more than an annoyance to its "mortal enemy" and posed literally no threat to it, only because they embodied directly conflicting ideals. One literally pukes galaxies, the other kills a couple people in one town every 30 years and mostly sleeps...they hardly balance out.

Just Maturin mildly favoring a couple kids was enough to beat it. That's like u beating something by throwing your hamster at it n giving it a reassuring pat on the butt. Gan doing the same literally killed It. The Losers alone, with no help, were hurting it consistently just fine.

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ourmanuel

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I don’t know how to say this, but penny wise lost to literal fodder characters. It doesn’t get worse than that.

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mega6382

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odin

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Matthew660

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odin looks at pennywise and obliterates him

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KingLouie

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#15  Edited By KingLouie

uh, what.

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Lsoon23

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#16  Edited By Lsoon23

Pennywise in his true form is actually ridiculously powerful, it's without a doubt the third most powerful entity in the entire Dark Tower lore after Maturin and Gan respectively and exists in a void beyond the one which Maturin resides outside of the Dark Tower which itself is comprised of an infinite amount of layers, each layer being infinitely bigger than the other and containing an infinite number of universes. Maturin carries The Dark Tower on its back. IT stomps ridiculously hard, he could give the highest abstracts in Marvel a good fight with it's Deadlights.

This is pretty much a mismatch of epic proportions.

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deactivated-5ebb616323ddd

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ProfessorRespect

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Odin has the most practical feats by a mile but by implication, the Deadlights should be more powerful.

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EternalDarkFury

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#19  Edited By EternalDarkFury
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Soratoumiga

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Pennywise, smh at this Odin wank

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noobmaster2001

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If we are using actual feats this is a horrible mismatch Odin curbstomps him, I know it’s implied That Pedowise the clown is more powerful but he has no feats and is all talk and as much as it’s unfair to say out of context he did get defeated by kids.

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Lsoon23

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#22  Edited By Lsoon23

@shadowrazer24 said:
@mega6382 said:

odin

How? Pennywise in his true form was literally only defeated when the group was amped with the help of Maturin, Maturin has everything that Gan created on his shell which includes the Dark Tower which is an infinitely sized multiverse with an infinite amount of layers, each layer is infinitely larger in size to the previous.

"If you fell outward to the limit of the universe, would you find a board fence and signs reading DEAD END? No. You might find something hard and rounded, as the chick must see the egg from the inside. And if you should peck through the shell (or find a door), what great and torrential light might shine through your opening at the end of space? Might you look through and discover our entire universe is but part of one atom on a blade of grass? Might you be forced to think that by burning a twig you incinerate an eternity of eternities? That existence rises not to one infinite but to an infinity of them?

All that Gan had created is on top of Maturin's back.

“Gan bore the world and moved on,” Roland replied. “Is that what you mean to say?”

“Aye, and the world would have fallen into the abyss if not for the great turtle. Instead of falling, it landed on his back.” -The Dark Tower VI: Song of Susannah

Pennywise itself is a being that comes from beyond time and space

"Then Beverly was shrieking, clinging to Bill, as It raced down the gossamer curtain of Its webbing, a nightmare Spider from beyond time and space, a Spider from beyond the fevered imaginings of whatever inmates may live in the deepest depths of hell.

-IT page 1064

And sees our universe as a puny egg.

because the only thing It had in common with the stupid old Turtle and the cosmology of the macroverse outside the puny egg of this universe was just this:

It also exists in the Macroverse, which is aa "void of possibility which lay beyond all physical worlds"that predates the creation of the Dark Tower, exists beyond it and predates the concept of time itself.

Suddenly he thought he understood: It meant to thrust him through some wall at the end of the universe and into some other place- this refers to the Macroverse.

The macroverse predates the recession of Prim.

"Maybe once, just after the Prim withdrew and Gan’s voice still echoed in the rooms of the macroverse, the Beams were smooth and polished, but those days are gone. Now the Way of the Bear and the Turtle is lumpy and eroded, full of coves and cols and bays and cracks, plenty of places to get your fingers in and take hold, and sometimes you drag at it and sometimes you can feel yourself worming your way into it like a drop of acid that can think. All these sensations are intensely pleasurable. Sexy." -The Dark Tower VIIl: The Dark Tower

Which means it also predates Gan creating the concept of time.

“Gan created time,” Roland said. “This is what the old legends say. Gan rose from the void—some tales say from the sea, but both surely mean the Prim—and made the world. Then he tipped it with his finger and set it rolling and that was time.” -The Dark Tower

So Pennywise exists beyond the Dark Tower and required the help of virtually one of the Gods of the verse to finally be defeated, it's a disgusting mismatch. Pennywise oneshots Odin and a large majority of Marvel.

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Lsoon23

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^All wrong. It was never, ever implied to be universal ever. Smashing an ant with a planet doesn't make the ant planet level.

And It was nothing more than an annoyance to its "mortal enemy" and posed literally no threat to it, only because they embodied directly conflicting ideals. One literally pukes galaxies, the other kills a couple people in one town every 30 years and mostly sleeps...they hardly balance out.

Just Maturin mildly favoring a couple kids was enough to beat it. That's like u beating something by throwing your hamster at it n giving it a reassuring pat on the butt. Gan doing the same literally killed It. The Losers alone, with no help, were hurting it consistently just fine.

All of this is just flat out wrong, The Losers never ever hurt its true form, they were only able of harming its true form after peforming the Ritual of CHUD and fighting IT on an astral plane with Maturin's help.

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MoneyyJunee

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Odin stomps

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Jormungandr-Jay

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Pennywise, smh at this Odin wank

Odin has feats and showings to prove otherwise that he is "wanked'. What does the Clown have besides hype and statements? Impressive that its a ancient being that has universal levels of feats but what are they? What has he done? Please tell me.

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Lsoon23

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@jormungandr-jay: I posted the major reasoning above, Pennywise exists outside an infinite dimensional structure (The Dark Tower) in a void that predates time without any kind of physicality or direction. Odin can at best do what? Destroy a couple universes? God forbid the fact that Odin wouldn't even be able to perceive Pennywise's True Form, Odin gets absorbed into the Deadlights for all of eternity.

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Soratoumiga

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@soratoumiga said:

Pennywise, smh at this Odin wank

Odin has feats and showings to prove otherwise that he is "wanked'. What does the Clown have besides hype and statements? Impressive that its a ancient being that has universal levels of feats but what are they? What has he done? Please tell me.

I think you just answered your question.

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deactivated-5d59ee082aecf

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Hasn't it been hinted that it and the crimson king are one an the same or it is like an aspect of the crimson king if so he wrecks if not pretty sure it is universal so toss up

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Jormungandr-Jay

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@jormungandr-jay said:
@soratoumiga said:

Pennywise, smh at this Odin wank

Odin has feats and showings to prove otherwise that he is "wanked'. What does the Clown have besides hype and statements? Impressive that its a ancient being that has universal levels of feats but what are they? What has he done? Please tell me.

I think you just answered your question.

No no, please dont take it the wrong way. The way I was implying it was by saying that his universal level of feats are hype and if you could just tell me what they were. Now after reading Lsoons posts and responses, its clear that I underestimated the Clown. I always knew he was powerful via by statements. Just didnt know that he was truly capable of this.

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Lsoon23

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@y3kthunder: I think he was meant to be an aspect of Gan, not IT.

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deactivated-5d59ee082aecf

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@lsoon23: oh ok see im not very familiar with the dark tower series but ive diffinately been trrying to read up on it more and some of kings other works like it and I know some people brought up an agruement for what I said above wasnt sure though however. I do know that it is a beast regardless an was beat by the turtle empowering the kids

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Soratoumiga

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@soratoumiga said:
@jormungandr-jay said:
@soratoumiga said:

Pennywise, smh at this Odin wank

Odin has feats and showings to prove otherwise that he is "wanked'. What does the Clown have besides hype and statements? Impressive that its a ancient being that has universal levels of feats but what are they? What has he done? Please tell me.

I think you just answered your question.

No no, please dont take it the wrong way. The way I was implying it was by saying that his universal level of feats are hype and if you could just tell me what they were. Now after reading Lsoons posts and responses, its clear that I underestimated the Clown. I always knew he was powerful via by statements. Just didnt know that he was truly capable of this.

Oh, I thought you knew about the hype/feats. Well, Lsoon's post did explain it very well.

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Hypnos0929

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IT

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thelocust619

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@lsoon23: It's literally all correct, actually.

The Losers did repeatedly harm It's avatar before Chud actually began. Mike did it by himself with tiles, Bev with silver, ect. While this didnt cause any lasting damage to its real "body" outside the universe, they did hurt it by It's own admission...both the true form, the astral projection, and this Pennywise avatar are all governed by the same consciousness. If It says it hurt, then it hurt...and understand theres a difference between being hurt and recieving lasting damage. You are correct in that lasting damage has only been caused during Chud.

They also never actually encountered It's true form. The closest they ever got was to It's Astral form, which was It's equivalent of Bill's astral form. This was the point at which Maturin (in the past) and the Other (Gan, as adults) assisted them, and it was only with a power boost. Niether Maturin or the Other ever bother to directly confronting It nor does It ever even try to engage them, instead choosing to sit back and spitefully watch Maturin from a distance, talking shit about how dumb It thinks he is.

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Lsoon23

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#35  Edited By Lsoon23

@thelocust619:

The Losers did repeatedly harm It's avatar before Chud actually began. Mike did it by himself with tiles, Bev with silver, ect. While this didnt cause any lasting damage to its real "body" outside the universe, they did hurt it by It's own admission...both the true form, the astral projection, and this Pennywise avatar are all governed by the same consciousness. If It says it hurt, then it hurt...and understand theres a difference between being hurt and recieving lasting damage

I'm referring to IT's true form, yeah they harmed his physical avatars. They didn't do any damage to the Astral form of Pennywise before the Ritual of Chud and gaining the amp of Maturin.

They also never actually encountered It's true form. The closest they ever got was to It's Astral form, which was It's equivalent of Bill's astral form.

I was more or less referring to IT's true form as the Astral form, as IT's true form is not even capable of being seen by normal people but you're correct.

This was the point at which Maturin (in the past) and the Other (Gan, as adults) assisted them, and it was only with a power boost.

Maturin virtually see's Pennywise as a child in terms of power, I wasn't implying that he actually took Maturin or Gan on head on. Nor did the post that I quoted of you really suggested that. However it's undeniable that the Losers would literally be dead in the water without the God's intervention and amp as they would be incapable of truly harming IT. Pennywise with IT's Deadlights still exists beyond the Dark Tower and within a void that predates time, Odin won't be getting the same help as the Losers did here.

Niether Maturin or the Other ever bother to directly confronting It nor does It ever even try to engage them, instead choosing to sit back and spitefully watch Maturin from a distance, talking shit about how dumb It thinks he is.

Yeah, but my point still stands that the Losers were incapable of hurting IT's true form without an amp by a literal God ignoring the fact that Pennywise is a bug on Maturin's and even more so on Gan's radar. He doesn't scale to Maturin, he has his own line of scaling which I outlined above.

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Redshift_Bacon

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Mismatch. IT is abstract level at the very least, existing outside of an infinite-dimensional Space and Time

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deactivated-5ebb616323ddd

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@lsoon23: I didn't know he was that powerful, my bad

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thelocust619

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#38  Edited By thelocust619

@lsoon23: I mean...they couldnt even interact with its astral body until Chud. But again, theres only one consciousness. If Pennywise thinks something, thats the same as Its true form thinking something. They're the same being, and it spent at least half a page sulking about it "nyaa I cant believe those meddling kids hurt meeee I'll show them".

Perhaps I extrapolated too much from your comment, I assumed "all wrong" meant you're contesting every individual point. The Losers indeed cannot survive Chud without assistance...but practically speaking, they were actually holding their own pretty damn well outside of Chud and came out on top of virtually every prior encounter with naught but the power of friendship and imagination. Even while weakened by either being alone at the time or by the loss of shman (coded for spoilers lol). The thing is that while damaging the Avatar doesnt harm the real body, the Avatar is still Its only means of even interacting with the universe...and it literally had to ride a meteor across lightyears space just to get to Earth. That's a long trip back if someone happened to just break It.

I think you're deeply overestimating that amp. More important than who the amp was from, is how much it was. Long story short, it doesn't appear to be anything even close to this God's full power. A rough example: Yamcha can give you all his energy, or Goku can give you a fingertip worth...its still the same amount. It doesnt matter who gave it to you. And considering that It was still fighting back AND Bill was actually able to fight It even a tiny bit before recieving his surge suggests it his boost was more relative to him than it was to Gan/Maturin's full might. (In other words, it was ?x Bill's power rather than any reasonable percentage of God's). This is not really any different than any other human being favored by God in a story...they dont become God, they just get a lil better than they were.

The biggest issue here is just where It is...that's as much a blessing for It as it is a curse. He may be hard to reach, but he has limited means of reaching anyone in the universe. Relative location aside, there's nothing to suggest any form of It wouldnt get splattered here in an actual engagement.

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zackg

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@redshift_bacon: He still got defeated by a bunch of kids who had the help of a being who is at most universal. So Odin takes this easily.

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zackg

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Odin because this MF got the balls to attack Celestials without fear.

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Redshift_Bacon

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@zackg: Gan is Multiversal. He is described thus:

In the cosmology of the Stephen King multiverse, Gan is that which the High Speech term "The White" refers to. Gan rose from the Prim (inferred to as the darkness behind everything) and created the universes and infinite alternate universes that the Dark Tower (the central universe in The Dark Tower series) holds in place.

Gan is the entity that helped the children in the It novel, while Maturin merely witnessed the event and gave advice to the Children.

Maturin himself holds an Infinite Multiverse on his back, and It is described as his Equal. It took the Power of the Creator God, and the favor of a Multiversal being to defeat It. Thats like needing TOAA and Eternity to help you defeat someone in Marvel.

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zackg

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@redshift_bacon: Matrurin holds the universe inhabited by humans on his back. Not all universes. Plus if what you say is the case than wouldn't this battle be against the rules? No omnipotents right?

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thelocust619

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#43  Edited By thelocust619

@zackg: @redshift_bacon: It is never once described as Maturins equal in power, nor is it ever displayed. They oppose each other in concept and are thus in opposition, where Maturin creates and It destroys. There is no other relation. It kills a few dozen people every 30 years, Maturin literally barfs up GALAXIES. They're leagues apart. It did once proclaimed itself to stronger in a rant while it was losing its mind in rage, but It is known to be a narcissistic liar and never backed that up, only daring to say it long after Maturin passed.

Maturin itself isnt omnipotent. Its just a really big turtle at the edge of space puking up galaxies. It choked on one and died.

Gan totally is omnipotent. But its so far above It that It didnt even know he existed for most of the story and shit itself at the very suspicion he might exist.

It is the Deadlights, which are described as both an entity and a place...essentially meaning It is a sentient pocket dimension that formed in the metaphysical nothingness outside the physical Macroverse (called the Outside). It literally IS its location, separate from any other universe, and it invades physical universes with avatars like Pennywise to feed on it like an infectious disease. Very slowly. Its not necessarily as strong as it is hax. You could describe it as a psionic disease for universes.

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Redshift_Bacon

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#44  Edited By Redshift_Bacon

@zackg said:

@redshift_bacon: Matrurin holds the universe inhabited by humans on his back. Not all universes. Plus if what you say is the case than wouldn't this battle be against the rules? No omnipotents right?

It isn't Omnipotent, Gan is.

Maturin isn't baseline Universal. He along with 11 other Guardians are the Guardians of the Beams, which hold up the Infinite Multiverse. He is quite literally 1/12th Multiversal, and that Multiverse is Infinite. Leading to him being Something Something Multiversal. He barfed out Our Universe on accident while he was preparing to "die" (although like all Megaversal entities in The Dark Tower, he can never truly die, unless willed to do so by Gan)

It is described as Maturin's equal, or his Brother, and it required the help of a potentially Omnipresent and Omnipotent deity to defeat him. Take that as you will.

@thelocust619: My understanding is that Maturin barfed up our Universe, and by supporting the Dark Tower with 11 other Guardians, Maturin could be arguably 1/12th Multiversal. The Reality of the Stephen Kingverse is described as an Infinite Multiverse, not simply a Universe.

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thelocust619

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#46  Edited By thelocust619

@redshift_bacon: Maturin did create the universe...one galaxy at a time. It choked on a galaxy.

It and TDT lore dont actually align, as fun as it is to try. I'm really reaching myself calling the Other Gan (despite it being the clear blueprint of what would eventually become Gan). Todash space is between worlds and doesnt exist in It's lore, the Outside (where It is from) is the nothingness outside of all universes so its not even the same thing as Todash. Macroverse as described in It doesn't exist in TDT, Guardians don't create universes in TDT (and can literally be shot with a gun), ect. Any crossover business is speculative at best and downright fanfiction at worst. I honestly wouldnt even describe the turtle we see in It as the turtle guardian from TDT, as its nothing at all like any of the guardians we encounter in the story, nor does it guard any beams. It just pukes galaxies and empowers kids if someone starts messing with it.

As far as It goes, It isnt from the space between universes (Todash), it is from the nothingness outside of all worlds (macroverse). That says very little about its power and more about where It is. Its power is only evidented in its destruction of Derry through an avatar and its psychic battles with Bill, the latter in which it was defeated both times by little more than these higher powers wanting Bill to win. And the Other's psychic super punch powerup for the killing blow.

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Redshift_Bacon

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#47  Edited By Redshift_Bacon

@thelocust619: To exist outside of the Universe means you must be beyond the Dimensions that confine the Universe, i.e the 3 Spatial Dimensions + Time.

While the avatars of It are clearly bound by the Spacial Dimensions (as are all Beyond 3+1 Objects/Things that are interacting/projecting onto a 3+1D Universe), the Entity that exists outside the Universe/Multiverse or whatever, Must, by Definition, be beyond those 3+1 Dimensions.

When It appears on our Plane, its merely an infinitesimally tiny “point” of a much greater and not understood being.

In my Opinion there are two ways of viewing Stephen Kingverse lore. You can either choose to view it as “Pre TDT vs TDT” or you can simply view it all as “TDT” and make the Pre-TDT stuff fit. That pre-TDT stuff does fit, with a little bit of extrapolation and Wordplay, but ultimately its up to the reader to decide if they accept it into the fold or not.

For me, there are too many coincidences for it to Not be included into one large group. Outerverse can be the Realm outside the Multiverse, and Todash Space can be the Realm in between the Universes. It doesnt have to conflict. Just like how the DC or Marvel Cosmologies took decades to realize, and if you look back far enough you will find contradictions.

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AntiFreddyKrueger

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A clown can't beat a god.

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