Firstly, the clown is not it's true form. IT is imprison outside Time and Space of the universe. However its Psy presence (the Clown / Spider) is a physical vessel it uses to terrorize the universe of the Turtle (the being who created our universe). No mortal mind can perceive IT's true form, even Bill's who Psy Power is boosted by the Universal Turtle.
Secondly, IT's Psy power was so great that it created a raging hurricane and in frustration at being wounded, it lashed out by blowing up the Sewers, Stores, and Transformer Boxes as well killing many people. In fact, Pennywise has shown Universal Psychic Power and the ability to steal your souls with the Deadlights. IT was not only battling Bill and Richie in the climax but also stealing their very Souls (as mention a battle of the mind and spirit) into the Dead Lights where IT's main form is Imprison. This Mental Battle was dragged through the Universe and outside it. The Turtle Beam does it's best to empower the Young Group and Bill to win. It could not be physically harmed or killed, only Mentally destroyed and spiritedly broken, therefore Pennywise is Eternal and cannot be killed by Physical means. Bill likened it as "fighting smoke". The only reason why the losers beat IT was because the Multiversal Psychic power of the Turtle Beam gave them the power to do so.
Lastly, IT was as fast as an express train and had an extremely powerful mind control that extended across the whole town. It is implied that the locals who live within Derry are indifferent about the terrible events that are take place there as evidenced by Bill's quote "Derry is It" and that "any place we go, they won't see, they won't hear, they won't know'. Pennywise can also read minds and shape shift into any form that it wants.
@twerk_it_miley: You're right, except It never showed any universal powers. Sending someone's mind flying across space isn't even close, and there's no evidence it could pull them anywhere other than to its true self, so this isnt really even a power showing: it's just sending something from itself to...itself. And the Turtle choked to death on a universe, so it's not even like It did anything noteworthy (like killing it himself) there either. Universe level would be if he TPd the whole universe, not a small town. Universe>>>>>>>It
Also, linking It with TDT and furthermore the Beams is only speculation, tmk. I agree with the speculation, but it's unprovable on a definative level because it doesn't fully line up. Stick to facts, not theories.
Really this all depends on pennywise. If he wants batman dead batman will die end of story. If he wants to toy with batman, batman has a good chance to defeat pennywise earthly manifestation in the clown. The spider form unless batman gets the help of the turtle which he can't get as per the OP,he has next to nill chance of beating it in h2h combat with standard gear.
@thelocust619: You are right to some extent now that I think about it however I disagree with the universe >>>>>> It. Penny-wise is on the same level of power if not greater than The Turtle, who accidentally created our universe and is like wise one of the Six Beams that hold up the whole Stephen King Universe. It has insane Psychic power and potential and lends power to keep balance through its path of worlds. This refers to the Turtle in the novel (IT). However, I do agree with you that I shouldn't have mentioned TDT and the links with IT, as you are right, it is speculation. Not that any of the above matters as we have the same opinion about this battle anyway.
@hocko1999_virus That would not be enough to kill Pennywise, the only reason why he was beaten was because The Turtle and Gan lent their power to the kids and adults to battle IT's Psychic influence of that World.
@twerk_it_miley: Ah ok. I really don't know a whole lot, I've just seen that miniseries from the 80's or 90's so I'll listen to what you have to say about it
@twerk_it_miley: We are mostly on the same page, I just feel like King doesn't really write in the "Turtle is universe level so It can be power scaled off that" sense. While the Turtle can just barf out universes, it's not like it's been blasting them at It (to our knowledge). That's the Turtle's feat, and it could be anything from a hax to a biological function...in other words that could have very little to do with attack potency when it conflicts with It. How they interact and how physics operate beyond our universe in Todash Darkness is beyond our understanding. "It" is multidimensional for sure, but to put it on par with birthing universes is a stretch for me. Maybe the Turtle can't impact It directly due to Its multidimensional nature, or maybe it can. We can't really say with absolute certainty. That's why, just personally, I'd rather use It's direct feats which are more down to Town-country level at peak. Comparatively, it's hard for me to think of a universal being's final death writhing...merely blowing up a bunch of toilets in one town on one planet lol.
By TDT standards, the Turtle is playing it's role wrong (though It was written well before TDT got that far, so retcon, perhaps?). In TDT, the Turtle is a Guardian, not a universe-spitter playing the role of a Living Tribunal. Roland straight up kills a Guardian (or was it Eddie) with a gun, albeit it was weakened. If that Bear was playing the same role in its universe as the Turtle did in It, then it is exceedingly difficult to think that it was spitting up universes of its own. Unless of course that was an avatar of the actual Bear, in a similar manner to how the Spider was to It...but again, that's just speculation. The bottom line is they don't really line up without taking several logical leaps, which we agree on
@morleericks: Easy fix, just put in the OP "tv series only", so there's no confusion. He's potentially a JL Event level threat in the book. It's reality warping is just incomprehensible versatile....
Oh my, just imagining what might happen if the Synestro Corp came across It and gave him a present lolololol take my money
I can see Batman taking movie It under these circumstances
@thelocust619: You have a great point there, Though I agree with all the speculation (I even have a theory that the Crimson King and Pennywise are actually the same entity, though obviously it is just a theory), I'll use direct feats from the novel :)
I agree that it should be Movie Pennywise vs Batman as obviously Novel Pennywise completely stomps.
@thelocust619: You have a great point there, Though I agree with all the speculation (I even have a theory that the Crimson King and Pennywise are actually the same entity, though obviously it is just a theory), I'll use direct feats from the novel :)
Stephen King himself told Roland Crimson King is It. He stated all his novels are glimpses of the worlds in the Dark Tower, and that Crimson King is It.
Also, linking It with TDT and furthermore the Beams is only speculation, tmk. I agree with the speculation, but it's unprovable on a definative level because it doesn't fully line up. Stick to facts, not theories.
Id agree with you on all else.
Actually it does link to the beams. Stephen King said so in his own Novel as he played himself. Stating IT was Crimson King when he wrote the novel.
So what IT is by King himself to be Crimson King. Killing the Turtle slowly was also reference of Crimson King at the time destroying the Turtle Beam and all the universe on its path.
Anyway, King stated what IT was for all intents and purposes, and is stated to have a connection to the DT series which Stephen King in real life stated is the center of all his stories in a shared multiverse anyway. In fact, the official Dark Tower Encyclopedia states novels like IT, Salems Lot, The Stand, Insomnia, ect are all part of the Dark Tower Universe.
@sirfizzwhizz: I got really, really excited by that until I remembered CK was ****** by a golden snitch from Harry Potter lol. That shouldn't even faze "It"...it's possible King's use of It there was capitalized as a new sentence instead of being proper, a correction of "He". I do like your notion and as I said I do agree in my own heart, but I was also trying to consider that there's clearly more than one spider-type in Todash Darkness...although admittedly Mordred, It, and CK's power sets are almost identical...
Oh wait...Roland IS protected, isn't he. That'd explain CK being hurt by something Roland believes should hurt him....okay, you blew my mind.
I got really, really excited by that until I remembered CK was ****** by a golden snitch from Harry Potter lol. That shouldn't even faze "It"...
No he wasnt. Crimson King never died. He was a immortal being who can only be killed by Rolands guns. In fact, he became immune to the guns when he killed himself which case he became Immortal and Undead combo. The only way he was beaten, not killed either lol, was literally reality warping from the artist.
it's possible King's use of It there was capitalized as a new sentence instead of being proper, a correction of "He". I do like your notion and as I said I do agree in my own heart, but I was also trying to consider that there's clearly more than one spider-type in Todash Darkness...although admittedly Mordred, It, and CK's power sets are almost identical...
Exactly. The werespiders all have insane Telepathy powers, shape shifting, and other supernatural abilities.
Also Crimson King has manifested himself three time in other universes. Two of them were official. One being hinted heavily by wordplay.
1) First time we seen Crimson king officially outside his universe was in the the Stephen King novel Insomnia. In this novel, it was said officialy in the DT books and DT Encyc that the Crimson King was the being trying to attack the artist who later erased him from existence in the final DT novel.
2) Second time was in the DT Novel itself, where the Crimson King manifested his power to attack real world Stephen King as a child, with little red spiders, that stated when bitten by would turn you into a Vampire.
3) Then King himself reference in the same book that It was Crimson King as well. Which makes sense as the above examples show Crimson King already manifesting in other Universes through his power, and more to the point It featured the Turtle Beam, Were Spider of the same powers, and the fact It itself was outside time and space. All that supported by the above, and Stephen King's own wordplay proves its the same being without a doubt. This is further backed by the Encyc.
So all in all, It was the same being. Also again, It is invincible because its a Psychic made being, not a physical one, not that matters as Crimson King was also immortal being who never died or could be killed.
So the only thing that can truly kill Crimson King is himself, which he becomes undead anyway and more immortal, or if Roland use his gun which can kill immortal beings on Crimson King when CK was still living.
Oh wait...Roland IS protected, isn't he. That'd explain CK being hurt by something Roland believes should hurt him....
Yes, and no. Roland is PLOT DEVICE protected. By that, Roland has been effected many times by Psy attacks. Yet, we seen other times in the novel that both the Turtle Beam has helped Roland with its great power when plot needed to, and Ka itself has saved Roland via plot from psykers.
Whats that? Roland is being psy raped by a demon? Magic Demon Jawbone that happen to come along day earlier ftw.
Whats that? Roland is being assaulted by a host of class one Vampires illusions? One of them just happen to fall in love with him, and a Jesus branded dog saves him.
Whats that? Dandelo the Psy Vampire Beetle is psy feeding off Roland? Thank Gan (God pun lol) plot had the future self of Susanah imprint on the mirror of the Bathroom for Susannah of the present to figure that out lol.
Whats that? Roland's Ka-tet is in threat of being eaten by Vampires? Good thing the Turtle Beam uses its multiversal psy power to scoop Roland's mind up, and trasport him to another universe in another time lol.
Whats that again? Roland has no clue what is happening to his world with the breaking of the beams? Good thing the remianing 5 beams of the six confront Roland, and lay out his destiny lol.
Also Roland himself has shown exceptional Psy resistance a few times as well from lesser psy beings. Like the Spirit of the Druid Circle, Randal Flagg himself, and a mentally attacking Dust Devil. Roland also resisted the epic mind rape of both Pink Sphere, and Black thirteen of Maerlyns Rainbow.
Also one other consideration, Roland is the half brother of Crimson King as well. Both having the same blood of the powerful father flowing through them, so there is that too.
So all in all, Roland not being effected by Crimson King psy attacks can be attributed in several reason why it would not work.
okay, you blew my mind.
Stephen King blew your mind. Who knew after all this time he be this epic.
Batman would do his research on his opponent. He would know about Pennywise's illusions and the forms he takes. The bat would travel to Maine. He would ask Alfred to identify his location. Once there, Pennywise would trick Bruce by looking like a regular person. Batman would find this out, though. He would find stealth in the shadows. He would look through his goggles to separate the humans from It. Once the clown was detected, Batman would suprise attack him. But with knowledge of his opponent, Pennywise was ready for the baterang to hit. Batman would start punching, kicking, and throwing him around. This would be absolutely nothing to Pennywise and all part of the act. Pennywise would disappear. With the people freaking out, Batman is unable to detect It. He would then find himself in a new dimension. He would look up to see a humongous spider. Pennywise would toy with Batman. Throwing him around, and crushing his costume. Knowing he was outmatched, Batman would get his alternative costume he used against superman in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016). It would barely challenge Pennywise, though. Batman would attack the legs of the spider. He only causes minor damage. "My turn," says a demonic voice. Batman finds himself trapped in between the bloodthirsty fangs of the hungry tarantula. "Good riddance," Pennywise replies as Batman meets an end.
Bats is smart enough to bring in some heavyweights with him on this. He would probably get Zatanna and Dr. Fate if not The Spectre. Given he can't literally bring them with him, he would get all the information he could. He would probably decide fighting IT on ITs home turf is a bad idea. On the other hand, all of Derry is ITs home turf.
He's also smart enough not to fight fair when he's greatly outclassed. He wouldn't fight croc or clayface straight up. So too, he wouldn't risk getting near Pennywise.
So he would go as Bruce Wayne and buy the town and give everyone jobs well away from Derry and from Maine. Turn it into a ghost town. Then he'd have it declared a national radioactive waste dumping site. He's got billions, he can move the politicians to make the laws. And no one would come anywhere near the place for the half-life of uranium-235 or 238. About 700 million to 4.5 billion years.
Bats is smart enough to bring in some heavyweights with him on this. He would probably get Zatanna and Dr. Fate if not The Spectre. Given he can't literally bring them with him, he would get all the information he could. He would probably decide fighting IT on ITs home turf is a bad idea. On the other hand, all of Derry is ITs home turf.
He's also smart enough not to fight fair when he's greatly outclassed. He wouldn't fight croc or clayface straight up. So too, he wouldn't risk getting near Pennywise.
So he would go as Bruce Wayne and buy the town and give everyone jobs well away from Derry and from Maine. Turn it into a ghost town. Then he'd have it declared a national radioactive waste dumping site. He's got billions, he can move the politicians to make the laws. And no one would come anywhere near the place for the half-life of uranium-235 or 238. About 700 million to 4.5 billion years.
Starve you bastard.
I don't see him doing this tbh. It just seems out of character
@itouchedtheboat: Hmm. Maybe not. Maybe he'd just threaten to nuke Derry the way he did with Darkseid in Superman/Batman. If he can face Darkseid he can face IT.
But I think Batman would eventually ask for help. As rare as that is.
Honestly you guys are missing the point. (Yes, I do know i'm late on this but I just felt the need to put this out). It's powers follow the laws of nature, for example; if It transforms into a Werewolf, it can be killed with silver, if it transforms into Dracula, he would be killed with a wooden stake through the heart. etc. It honestly also depends on which Batman he's up against. If he's up against Batman. If IT's up against a Batman who just lost Jason Todd, It would probably take his shape (since Jason represents Bruce's failure to save him). Or IT could also transform into his parents. If Batman figures out that he's being played with, he would kill the creature without any hesitation (since Batman would kill parademons so I doubt he would hesitate to kill a creature like IT). IT has to obey the laws of nature.
I think that Batman will easily win against Pennywise the clown as he won't gave Pennywise any chance to try to get a lead. Pennywise can only win with the help of fear and Batman is absolutely fearless. No matter what Pennywise do, Batman will definitely find a way and finish off Pennywise
Log in to comment